Windows 10 1703, disaster

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dmkonsulten

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Sep 11, 2017
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I've been working with computers since mid 90's. Building, installing, repairing... Ms Partner for many years, but now, I'm ready to throw in the towel. Every single computer, my own and others, that have had the 1703 version installed seems to become very unreliable with BSOD's happening all the time for no reason. Clean install or via windows update doesn't matter. Intel, AMD cpu's, AMD, Nvidia graphics, Home builds or well known brands doesn't seem to matter at all. My own computer has been asking to install this update for weeks now, and has gone from a choice to ''Snooze'' to ''Remind me again tomorrow''. I don't wan't that crap. My computer runs just perfect and I need it 24/7. Most importantly, I work as a pro DJ and I depend on using the Pioneer software ''Rekordbox'' for my music. Pioneer has warned about several users having severe problems regarding Rekordbox running on W10 1703. Do I have to revert back to windows 7 to have a windows computer that just work properly. Half a year ago, one of the last big updates to 1607 ruined my installation and windows couldn't find the ssd to boot from after the update, which happened in the background without the option to not install this update. First two times, i fixed it using system restore, but the third time the update also destroyed that, so after 4 hours with ms support I gave up and started all over with a clean install. Can't do this over and over again. 1. Any suggestion how to close down windows update is welcome. I do want to be able to start it manually later. 2. How can I at least stop the reminder to install this update. I know it's there, I don't need the reminder. 3 Anyone who knows the name of the person who suggested that every update is mandatory and later decided that it's a good idea to release updates that for sure will render most computers useless. I'd like to have a serious chat with that person, or rather someone who can sack the ***** and leave a footprint where it hurts the most. The competition couldn't have asked for a more incompetent person... So, first time I can't fix a problem on my own, I really need some help. Anyone?
 
Solution
BFG-9000
Use Microsoft's KB3073930 Wushowhide.diagcab tool to hide the upgrade. Run it, click Advanced, untick the box marked "Apply repairs automatically," then Next. When it comes back up, click Hide Updates and tick the box marked "Feature update to Windows 10, version 1703," then Next.

You should use 1607 until 1803 comes out next year as support for 1607 will end then. This may require hiding both 1703 and 1709 (which arrives Oct 17, 2017), but hopefully by then either Pioneer will have updated their software or Microsoft will have fixed the problem breaking it.
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Thank you for Winaero tip. I'll try and see if it solves the issue with the updates.

When it comes to Pioneer's Rekordbox, it is THE software every DJ in world who regularly play in clubs uses to prepare the music to be used on their hardware. It updates very often but for some reason this warning was issued a while ago. And to be truly honest, if there's so radical changes to how the windows 10 OS is changed with more or less every update, so that is causes programs to crash and hardware to malfunction the way it does with 1703 update, there should absolutely be a fair warning before installing updates, an option not to install the update, and for anyone who dares anyway, guidelines how to proceed to avoid the most common problem.

Now, Ms supports respons is, ''did you update the graphics driver before...'' Of course people don't do that, since most updates occur in the background and without the users knowledge. If they click OK, it's because they've trusted Ms updates for the last 20 years or so, and they just want their computer to work. The only answer you get from the Ms support is ''you should try a clean install''... Well, it was a clean install and yes all the most recent Ms approved drivers are installed, still not working properly and BSOD's every half hour.

When people made the choice to upgrade from earlier versions, it was done so after a hardware compatibility test, and that ties Ms to stick to that hardware as long as they continue to release updates to windows 10, and in my opinion, the same goes for software. Not all software are big enough to have the Ms certification, and often businesses are using older unsupported software. Before change of OS, you test if the programs are compatible, and if they are, the upgrade may occur. Now, with the change of how OS updates are pushed out and the way they clearly change the foundation for what will be compatible after each update, windows is not to be trusted anymore. Hardly for home and entertainment use, and definitely not for work. I need to trust that my computer support what I do, not the other way around.

...and I'm the one fixing other peoples computer related problems, one of the 1%ers that uses a Nokia windows phone and have 13 windows computers running at home, the one who's recommended windows Os to lots and lots of people for over two decades... And now I'm the one thinking that perhaps Linux and Apple will have to be my choice in the future, very near future. If the next version update doesn't fix what's broken, I'll start to reinstall win 7 on all the computer at home, and I'll recommend everyone I've ever helped before to consider to do the same if they've got any of the problems I've encountered with the 1703. I have about 400 of them on FB, so it's quickly done. I'll also direct them to Ms support because there's nothing I can do. Not that they can either, but they'll hear it from the horses mouth. They better spend Ms time than mine.

For the moment, I feel so incredible disappointed by Microsoft, that words can't describe it. To the point of betrayal.
 
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I'm having completely opposite experience with W10, It has cured many problems with earlier versions and relay mostly on AutoCad which superbly soldiers on thru any OS changes. That's one serious SW along with MS Office and likes of those. Photoshop also has very few issues with any change in W10 and so many other serious developers. Can't really blame small SW developers for not keeping up but also many of them are "one program/application wonders" that develop a program, take money and run.
So, logical hierarchy has been established since the beginning of computer era. HW > OS > Programs > consumer/user. OS has to keep up with demand of HW which it relies on, SW relays on OS to work on and we, consumers are left to conform to whatever is served to us or not use it.
There's really no one "guilty" party to lay blame on. HW has to advance, OS has to be able to use it in fullest, SW has to run in OS and we are left to use it or loose it. IT is not only industry to face such trials.
 
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I think you read too much into the software vs OS. The major problems are not whether software updates fast enough or not, and as I mentioned, Pioneers Rekordbox is for DJ's all over the world the equivalent of Photoshop and Autocad in their respective categories. Not a small software, but the leading company of DJ gear and the one that is preferred in every Dj booth all over the world. It's used to prepare the the music to be performed on setups costing $1500-$20 000, and that's only the player/mixer part. In front of 1000's of people every day of the week in 1000's of clubs and events. For us who are in this business, there's no ''I'll choose another platform or software''. The option that remains is to change the OS. But that is the smallest of issues. There's always a solution around the corner, but it shouldn't happen at all on this level. The major problem is that the 1703 is the most unstable version of windows ever released, and when you can't even get into your computer after an update, then there's a big problem. The way computers are an integrated part of almost every part of life. If you pronounce yourself as the leading manufacturer of an OS for both private and corporate use, you have a responsibility towards your customers to make sure there's no changes made that render your customers computers useless, certainly not when you introduce an update process that more or less excludes the user completely and without any kind of warning or information makes changes to windows that can't even be stopped. At best, delayed. It's like the electricity all of a sudden shut down in all of Ms building, and the only explanation afterward would be ''we have made som updates that requires a new class of wiring''... There would be lawsuits filed before the morning coffee... but that will never happen, because serious businesses make sure that doesn't happen to their customers. So, forget the minor software issues. The problem is the many computer, that has been working perfect for years with every other version of Windows, from 7 to 10 v 1607, until 1703, when suddenly BSODs, non working LAN cards and faulty graphics is the what everyone gets. I have never since I started to work with windows computers in 1995 seen so many computer crashing from one update only. And nothing seems to be done about it. As this happens to the most common hardware used, new as old, I asked Ms which hardware they guarantee will work with this 1703. No answer to that. But, I don't need to rant about it, just do a google search... I wrote here because there's usually very skilled people in here with excellent answers to most problems, and I'll take any back door solution for testing. The ones Ms knows about but for obvious reasons can't give out.
 
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Use Microsoft's KB3073930 Wushowhide.diagcab tool to hide the upgrade. Run it, click Advanced, untick the box marked "Apply repairs automatically," then Next. When it comes back up, click Hide Updates and tick the box marked "Feature update to Windows 10, version 1703," then Next.

You should use 1607 until 1803 comes out next year as support for 1607 will end then. This may require hiding both 1703 and 1709 (which arrives Oct 17, 2017), but hopefully by then either Pioneer will have updated their software or Microsoft will have fixed the problem breaking it.
 
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Solution
Thank you! This sounds promising. Just today Pioneer released their new version of Rekordbox, completely rebuild with a new engine and GUI. Nothing about not being compatible with any version of windows, but, I can't risk my computer going in BSOD mode either, so I'll definitely try to hide this update as long as I can.
 
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I have unfortunately the same problem since the update on w1703 crashes recordbox dj constantly. This is simply impossible at a gig with the worlds best DJ hardware and costs me customers and my reputation. Pioneer is now the user for this update to warn, unfortunately, to me too late. I hate w10 so much that I probably have to get a Mac, strangely have never problems and can work with a 12 year old Mac without problems.
I'm so angry at microsoft and disappointed. To be ashamed, microsoft ... just ashamed. Greeting Norman (LabelPresident)
 
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Not too be rude, I'm a tech myself. At my work we are actually getting away from Windows 7 even and going now toward 10. I can't say I've experienced nearly the issues you are reporting. I run it on my personal box (1703) with all of my games, etc etc, no major issues.

It seems to me that the software developer needs to get in gear and fix their product. Does not matter how much their product costs, if it's not compatible, it's not compatible. If they intend to stay on a Windows platform, they will have to fix it at some point, but using users as the test subject isn't fair either.

You might try the new build coming out next month. I don't know if this will help, but have you tried using compatibility mode with that software and try to make it think it's running under Windows 7? Might be worth a shot.

If be curious what components you are actually asking etc, because I've seen very few problems with the OS itself. The main issues I've seen are with the 3rd party softwares.

Apologies that you are having so many issues though, I know when things don't work, that can be frustrating.

I don't think Windows 7 is a good answer. You could do that, but when support is dropped in couple of short years, you'll be back to square one. Thing I hate about apple is the cost for the little you get and the locked down style of OS.
 
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Fortunately I got the warning in time, and I ''only'' use Rekordbox for analyze and storage. I always use USB storage with RB's music. Did you try the update to RB5. If not, you should. The warning only concerned version 4 and version 5 is supposedly a completely rebuild version. I know that Rekordbox and Mac OS have had their fair share of problems before, and that will most certainly happen again, but with Windows 10 1703, it's not about a single problem. It's about a lot of different problems that occur simultaneously, to the level that Ms recommendation is to reinstall the whole system, which may not even solve the problem, just make it appear differently. I do have a better success with doing a clean install when there's been an update causing the B.S.O.D's. But as half of the computers are clean installed already, it's no comfort or help getting that respons from Ms support. Last happened to a friend of mine bringing his brand new Acer laptop. On the first start, the computer updated itself to 1703, and after a 2 minute visit logged in, he got the message that the computer needed another restart to finish the update... and this was the last he saw of this install, because after the restart his new computer was a brick. After we found out from Acer Support that Ms orig. OEM Win 10 image was suitable for a reinstalling this laptop, we did, and now the laptop works fine. But it did add another 6-7 hours of work. He's not a computer wiz, so if I hadn't been there to help him, this would have cost him a lot. Now he'll owe me a beer for saturday.
 
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Hello ... yes I have updated to version 5 even today completely new to 5.01 but unfortunately I still have the problem. after a certain time, RB stops. I have a ticket at pioneer and have the settings even after instruction made even the dmp file I sent them, I'm still waiting for a response, my hardware is an asus i7 4800hq, 8 gig ram and an 870m graphics card ... everything more as sufficient. The notebook is only equipped with Serato DJ and RB DJ. Serato runs without problems. I just do not understand. As I said under the old Windows version, I had no problems. W10 makes even on my water-cooled high end problems that I had to adjust my overclocking down because games have hung up in the middle of the game. My music programs such as Steinberg wavelab can only be edited when I am registered as an Admin ... what the shit is ... it is simply a disaster so and now good night. I am angry.
 
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In a couple of other answers you'll see that the Rekordbox problem now probably is fixed with a new version, and this was just one example of all the problems I've encountered. It just happened to be one that I was in the risk of getting personally. Most of the problems are what other people have encountered and have turned to me with to get help.

The hardware is all over. Intel/AMD cpu's, Nvidia/AMD graphics, Realtek/Intel LAN, Middle/Top end MB's from ASUS, MSI and Gigabyte, SSD's from Samsung, Sandisc and Intel, SATA's from all brands... There's no way to predict which hardware will presumably be the cause for a crash when windows for some reason no longer can handle it. The suggestion that it's a hardware fault to begin with comes from Ms support. I think it's bull and has all to do with a faulty OS.

In less than half of the cases, a clean install has helped, for the moment. Actually 2 this week after using the suggested methods here. In all other cases a clean install was already in place and the crash(es) came a short while after several hours of installing updates and standard software, proven reliable for years before.

For personal use I'm not worried to use Win 7, as long as the software I use are supported. As proven a lot now, windows ''support'' regarding updates can be just as bad as any virus out there. When something renders a computer useless, it doesn't really matter if it's an update from Ms or a virus from hell. The result is the same. I still have a computer running Win XP, only used for backup and recording audio, which it does just perfect.
 
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It sounds a lot like the problems I've encountered. If the problems have come with an update, you could try a clean install from the latest Ms Oem install ISO. It has helped about half of the computers that turned to a brick. If the problems continue after a clean install, the only choice will be to return to an older version of windows until Ms get things OK. Perhaps the 1709 version that's about to get released will fix things, but I'd still go for a clean install. Better spend the hours on the most believable solution, even if there's no guarantees. It's good that some of the new features in RB v5, is the new backup utility, which should make it a lot easier to do a complete reinstall of windows, without the need to recreate everything in RB again.
 
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This is exactly what we feared would happen when Windows went to a rolling release every six months. Software makers used to be able to rely on the current version of Windows being constant for 7 years (because of the problems with Longhorn development, XP ended up being supported for 13 years) and now are seeing major changes every six months. Worse, it's not like they have the whole six months ahead to work on things-- Microsoft is not giving them much more than a month ahead of release to verify their software still works or to make any changes. This is just too little time, especially for antivirus manufacturers whose products hook deeply into the kernel, which is why Microsoft admits it has simply been uninstalling 3rd party antivirus solutions and re-enabling the built-in Defender during version upgrades. Sheesh, at least when Firefox announced they were changing their plugin model, it was years in advance.

Microsoft decided to fire the entire Quality Assurance department responsible for testing the Windows updates two years ago. And of course you can no longer uninstall a single misbehaving update as it's now all in a giant monolithic monthly patch. Now that Windows is free for most, nonpaying customers and their telemetry are the beta testers for paying Windows Enterprise customers (and volunteer Windows Insiders are the alpha testers). So only the Enterprise version is really reliable enough to be suitable for business use.

I have to say though that despite the original build 1507 having ended support on May 9, 2017, it has still received security updates every month since then (I suppose it's just not "supported" any more if you run into a problem). Microsoft's stated reason for going to the rolling release was to reduce fragmentation of many people running different versions of Windows so they wouldn't have to make updates for all of them, but if everyone is running different builds of 10 I don't see how that's much better.

BTW XP had far fewer DPC latency audio issues than later versions of Windows because the drivers could run in kernel-mode and directly access the hardware mixer in professional multichannel cards. In Vista the audio stack was replaced with a user-mode only model which could no longer use any acceleration or offload features present in the hardware. Everything runs entirely in software, including the emulated Microsoft software mixer.
 
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OS (any OS) has to be updated regularly and SW for it too. Hardware is changing all the time and so are user requirements for OS. I don't have many payed programs but ones I have are updated all the time.
Revo Uninstaller for instance, using it for years, bought it once and it had numerous free updates since. Same goes for MS Office, Total Commander, AutoCad and many other, never failed to run or update, no matter which Windows version or update. Also many freeware programs are regularly updated to match Windows version or update. Programs/applications that can't match changes in HW+OS are just not worth having, period. Developers of payed/commercial SW should be required to fork money back if they don't provide adequate support for OS changes or abandon it and not sell it any more.
OS developers can be blamed only if it can't meet requirements toward HW and for internal bugs/errors, never for incompatibility for something on higher level.
 
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You know, CountMike, the problem isn't that there are updates. The problem is software manufacturers are getting as little as a week to try out the update before it is released to the public. If the software turns out to have major compatibility problems, they can only be fixed after the update is already out. In the meantime anyone relying on said software for business is out of luck unless they temporarily roll back the update.

Back in the days before "the last version of Windows ever," whenever it was announced there would be a new version of Windows, there would be a Technical Beta, a Beta 1, a Beta 2, a RC1, a RC2, and a pre-RTM for the software manufacturers to test out for over a year so they could be ready for launch day. If they weren't ready you could certainly blame them then. Not so much now.

As I said, the new model is now you are the beta tester. There's no time for anyone else to do it.
 
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Beside regular edition there are 3 rings of Insider builds, Slow, Fast and Fast with Skip ahead option. Fast ring is getting updates as long as 6 months before "normal" release date with some changes/updates even predating last release. Ample time for anybody to adjust to it. As I said before, serious SW developers keep up with changes and ensure proper compatibility but smaller ones either have no resources, ability or willingness to do so.
There are ways to keep SW one depends on even if it's not compatible any more. Installing windows in a VM or dual BOOT with windows updates disabled and/or disconnected from internet. Later option is better if direct access to HW is required. W10 installed in those alternative ways don't even have to be licensed.
 
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Well, CountMike, you can defend the new policy's at Ms as much as you want. Your prerogative. My point of view is from the end users, and 99% of them wouldn't understand half of what you just stated in your last comment. They are the ones that are the backbone and future profits for Ms. Not the 0.0001%:ers that use Adobe, Autocad or for that matter Rekordbox. When people don't trust the devices they have for normal everyday use, they switch to other gear, and that is Apple and Android. They sure seem to have a more reliable way to perform updates, for now. As it it's Windows they don't want, the switch is never to another Ms device. Let's include gamers to the people using serious software. This is still not even 1% of all users that rely on a Windows computer for everyday use. Without them Ms, will be a very very expensive and exclusive choice of OS and soon there will be no Ms Windows. It happened to Nokia and it will happen to anyone ignoring and failing the majority of their customers. Rightfully so. When they succeed with turning a 2 decade Ms fanboy like me, to be this skeptic, and to write on a forum like this, what I do now, then it's about time to get worried, Ms!
 
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I'm not defending anybody or anything and certainly not MS but was just stating facts with hierarchy established even before PC era. What we have here is a mathematical formula of 3 undefined factors so each factor changing conditions for other two as well as whole result. Without that hierarchy established and adhered to it would be impossible to maintain any kind of compatibility. It's not dissimilar to any other aspects in "real life".
One of the problems is that we are very spoiled when it comes to technology and expect everything to work at once and forever without any effort on our part which may happen some time in the future but we are still far away from that.
 
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Hey everybody. No solution for the 1703 in sight, and I stand by everything I wrote before. BUT, as I expected, you guys in here have a competence above others. The suggestion from BFG-9000 to use KB3073930, and the use of WinAero suggested by CountMike, seems to have worked, stopping unwanted updates, but let's me install the ones I want 😀 . WinAero is similar to Winbubbles, that I used for earlier version of Windows. Used with caution, it's an excellent tool. I'm not sure which one did what, as i installed them both, but it's solved my problems with unwanted updates and annoying reminders that also send my full screen apps to the activity bar. With WinAero I made some additional changes and optimizations to windows for a better experience. Thank you guys. You're the best.
 
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