[SOLVED] Windows 10 Driver Updates.

[JerrWolf]

I hope everyone's doing well today.

I had a question or two regarding driver updates and was hoping I can get some answers.

1. What is the best method to update your drivers when you install an OS (or Reset the existing OS)?
2. Are device updaters such as Driver Booster or even CCleaner's new feature Device Updater actually worth using? I've read mixed opinions on this from older posts across the internet.
3. A follow up on question 2; Sometimes I see they'll say I have a driver that needs updating, but windows 10's update check does not pick up anything--and even when I go into device manager and check for an update on the specific driver it tells me there is no driver more up-to-date than what I have installed already. For example my SATA AHCI driver says it's from 2006, and these driver updaters tell me there is one from 2017.

(I did install Driver Booster to see if it could pick up out-of-date drivers because my PC just BSOD'd, but I did not update anything yet)

I'll check back in the morning for any answers, thank you for anyone who responds.

 

[JerrWolf]

Hi, I ran the dump files through the debugger and got the following information: https://jsfiddle.net/uyv4gc5q/show This link is for anyone wanting to help. You do not have to view it. It is safe to "run the fiddle" as the page asks.

Spoiler: Dump File Results

File information:	070621-8562-01.dmp (Jul 6 2021 - 10:50:11)
Bugcheck:	DRIVER_VERIFIER_DETECTED_VIOLATION (C4)
Driver warnings:	*** WARNING: Unable to verify timestamp for eppwfp.sys
Probably caused by:	memory_corruption (Process: System)
Uptime:	0 Day(s), 0 Hour(s), 00 Min(s), and 06 Sec(s)

File information:	070321-18531-01.dmp (Jul 3 2021 - 00:14:44)
Bugcheck:	SYSTEM_SERVICE_EXCEPTION (3B)
Driver warnings:	*** WARNING: Unable to verify timestamp for mwac.sys
Probably caused by:	memory_corruption (Process: MBAMService.exe)
Uptime:	4 Day(s), 12 Hour(s), 22 Min(s), and 09 Sec(s)

Comment: The overclocking driver "RTCore64.sys" was found on your system. (MSI Afterburner)

Malwarebytes crashed. So did the anti-virus (Emsisoft) that you have installed. Are you using a legit version of Windows? Do you have any questionable software on your system? I would consider running only 1 of those for the time being.

Possible Motherboard page: https://www.asus.com/supportonly/maximus_vii_hero/helpdesk_knowledge/
You are using the latest BETA BIOS.

This information can be used by others to help you. Someone else will post with more information. Please wait for additional answers. Good luck.

I do have MSI Afterburner installed, I use it to force my GPU fans to turn on, because otherwise you'd have no idea the thing had fans on it.
I do have Malwarebytes and Emsisoft installed, I'm fine uninstalling either--any preference to which is better?
My Windows 10 version is legit, upgraded from my Windows 7 back when it came out.
In terms of questionable software, I suppose the most questionable would be qBittorrent? I did have the Driver program mentioned above installed but since this post I've uninstalled it.

 

[hotaru.hino]

The main concern was BSODs, and that the PC was a fresh reset, so I don't know if Windows grabbed every driver needed or not.

How do I know when windows grabs a driver for something, and when I need to download it myself? Or if Windows says it's up-to-date and it actually isn't?

If there's no driver available for the hardware, the hardware simply doesn't get used. There can be a problem with the drivers you installed, but it's very rare that the ones Windows comes with is actually a problem. Driver updates through Windows Updates are optional. They don't get installed unless you want them to be installed.

Assuming people haven't had much issues with the drivers, BSODs usually indicate a hardware problem.

 

[JerrWolf]

If there's no driver available for the hardware, the hardware simply doesn't get used. There can be a problem with the drivers you installed, but it's very rare that the ones Windows comes with is actually a problem. Driver updates through Windows Updates are optional. They don't get installed unless you want them to be installed.

Assuming people haven't had much issues with the drivers, BSODs usually indicate a hardware problem.

I see, well my previous BSOD was hardware related to my understanding.
It was a memory related crash, which after testing the RAM, one stick had issues and Corsair replaced them for me, I ran the tests and both were fine.
This issue however I think may stem from something else.

 

[Colif]

insiders might be why you had bsod, as it might not be as stable as win 10. always chance that drivers don't work with it as well.
Running driver verifer always runs risk of a boot loop. I would have shown you steps to take to try to avoid it.

update/remove Anti virus and/or Malwarebytes. They were cause of last 2 BSOD

could be an insiders thing.

are you going to roll back to 10?

 

[JerrWolf]

insiders might be why you had bsod, as it might not be as stable as win 10. always chance that drivers don't work with it as well.
Running driver verifer always runs risk of a boot loop. I would have shown you steps to take to try to avoid it.

update/remove Anti virus and/or Malwarebytes. They were cause of last 2 BSOD

could be an insiders thing.

are you going to roll back to 10?

Alright, I've uninstalled Emsisoft, I don't really visit any risky sites on my PC, and I always have adblock on (even if it doesn't work 100% of the time), so is leaving Malwarebytes on the PC something I should do or just uninstall all of them leaving just Windows Defender, and reinstall whenever I need to run it, then uninstall again?

I hadn't installed windows 11 on this PC because after going through the hoops for Windows Insider and all that I was told this PC can't run Windows 11 due to the TPN and Safe Boot or whatever it is most ppl get stuck on. So I'm still on Windows 10, and I've paused the insider program.
That said, I'm not sure if any of the updates are still on the PC itself--plus I did run CCleaner's Driver Updater, would the best thing to do is reset windows again? I do not have any system restore points before the issues occurred.

I did see a post here last night in regards to Driver Verifier, and how it will cause boot loops--which it did for me. I've turned it off now, still not entirely sure what it does but I think we somewhat found the issue of those bluescreens.

 

[JerrWolf]

I'm not sure if it's entirely related, but if there is a method to check I'm willing to do so.

I was running the game as I normally do, and the computer locked up and my Keyboard nor mouse worked, I still had audio (game audio and YT music) playing through my headset. I had to force restart the PC with my case switch.

 

[Colif]

Driver verifier does what its name suggests, it puts drivers into situations they shouldn't ever be in to see if they crash or not. I was the person who probably posted about it, I recall dropping this link last night

Info - Driver Verifier Instructions

Please don't run this until you are asked to as it can put you in a boot loop what is Driver verifier? It is a part of Windows designed to reveal bad drivers. It tests them individually. It will cause Blue Screen Errors as that is its job Driver Verifier monitors Windows kernel-mode...

forums.tomshardware.com

I don't really like any program from ccleaner, though I do use speccy to find info on PC. the actual ccleaner program can do more harm than good on a brand new install.

CPU - I7 4790K
MB - MAXIMUS VII HERO
RAM - 16gb Corsair vengeance
GPU - Nvidia...

what else is in PC?
what storage, what PSU? How old is PC? I know roughly from CPU age but is it all original? if its about 6 it could be parts wearing out.

 

[JerrWolf]

Driver verifier does what its name suggests, it puts drivers into situations they shouldn't ever be in to see if they crash or not. I was the person who probably posted about it, I recall dropping this link last night

Info - Driver Verifier Instructions

Please don't run this until you are asked to as it can put you in a boot loop what is Driver verifier? It is a part of Windows designed to reveal bad drivers. It tests them individually. It will cause Blue Screen Errors as that is its job Driver Verifier monitors Windows kernel-mode...

forums.tomshardware.com

I don't really like any program from ccleaner, though I do use speccy to find info on PC. the actual ccleaner program can do more harm than good on a brand new install.

CPU - I7 4790K
MB - MAXIMUS VII HERO
RAM - 16gb Corsair vengeance
GPU - Nvidia...

what else is in PC?
what storage, what PSU? How old is PC? I know roughly from CPU age but is it all original? if its about 6 it could be parts wearing out.

PSU:Corsair RM750.
Storage: Samsung 850 PRO, Samsung 850 EVO, Corsair Neutron, Corsair Force LS.
Cooler: Corsair Hydro Series H100i GTX 240mm

Age: I build the PC around 2014~2016, the GPU and Samgsung SSDs are probably the newest components the PC has. Although I do have a wifi card but I don't think that's relevant.

So running CCleaner like an Anti-virus is not good practice? Admittedly so that is what I've been doing.

 

[Colif]

download Magician and run diagnostics on both Samsung drives - https://www.samsung.com/semiconductor/minisite/ssd/download/tools/
i believe this works for Corsair - https://www.techspot.com/downloads/6075-corsair-ssd-toolbox.html

i wouldn't run ccleaner, it has a habit of cleaning the dump file folder so if you do bsod it might remove records. You don't really need it, windows isn't that messy.

I doubt its the AIO, you would notice in other ways. temp increases - mines been same temp for a year now. 29c liquid temp. I only know its accurate by playing with fan plans... I have a H100i rgb platinum so you could say they similar.

TP-LINK Archer T9E PCI Express AC1900 Wireless Dual Band PCI Express Adapter.

just to be complete, i think its probably okay, has 2020 drivers. I seen problems with WIFI adapters for a while now but that should be recent enough.

 

[JerrWolf]

download Magician and run diagnostics on both Samsung drives - https://www.samsung.com/semiconductor/minisite/ssd/download/tools/
i believe this works for Corsair - https://www.techspot.com/downloads/6075-corsair-ssd-toolbox.html

i wouldn't run ccleaner, it has a habit of cleaning the dump file folder so if you do bsod it might remove records. You don't really need it, windows isn't that messy.

I doubt its the AIO, you would notice in other ways. temp increases - mines been same temp for a year now. 29c liquid temp. I only know its accurate by playing with fan plans... I have a H100i rgb platinum so you could say they similar.


just to be complete, i think its probably okay, has 2020 drivers. I seen problems with WIFI adapters for a while now but that should be recent enough.

I'll download those and check the SSDs.
Also with the topic brought up, I do have concerns over my temps, or rather I did at the time of making the thread.
Question - How do I know if my AIO is empty? Improving Temperatures for PC. | Tom's Hardware Forum (tomshardware.com)
It seems the temps are "fine" even if they feel really hot and heat the room up lmao.

Edit: I've installed and ran the 2 software, the Corsair one did not really give me any information.
Both Samsung and HWinfo32 said my drives were in "good" condition, with the lowest life % left being like 76% on one of the Corsair SSDs. (my first SSD I think).

 

[JerrWolf]

Also in regards to the Wifi-adapter, I think just for the sake of simplicity I'll remove it until I actually need to use Wifi.
I use Ethernet 100% of the time right now anyway.

Plus, one of the antennas broke last night anyway, so if I need wifi I'd probably just buy a new one lol.

 

[JerrWolf]

I never use device manager.
I get the driver version and go to the maker of the driver to get a new one. Say if you needed new Nvidia I would grab Geforce experience and use it to update my drivers.

So I have reinstalled Windows using the USB method instead of reinstall. If those two methods make a difference idk but it's a fresh install now.
If there was an issue, from what we gathered here in the few days of chatting--it was probably my fault.
Considering how I did mess around with CCleaner and such prior to making the thread.

I would like to ask for more information regarding how you manually update your own drivers without using Device Manager.

This is the support page
MAXIMUS VII HERO - Support (asus.com)

Will these drivers always be the most up to date?
Is there a way to check if mine is already that version due to Windows Update picking it up?

I installed Driverview to check and this time around I have even less drivers than when I sent the first screenshot lol. Probably because I haven't installed anything onto the PC yet.
I don't see all of the stuff listed in the Support page. I also see a lot more items in the device manager than in the Driverview page.
Google has informed me that the Chipset in Device Manager is under System Devices, and then Intel(R) Management Engine Interface, but that driver has a newer date and driver number (same as in DriverView) than what is on the Asus Support page. So at first I felt confident I could update everything myself, it would seem in reality I wasn't!

https://imgur.com/1bz0ZAu

View: https://imgur.com/1bz0ZAu

link for if the image doesn't display.

 

[Colif]

Will these drivers always be the most up to date?

No. Motherboard makers only support boards for about 3 years at most. All the drivers on the Asus website are 5 years old now.

BUT windows did a pretty good job of finding the right ones. You don't appear to need any from Asus. Unless GPU is really new, you don't need to touch any of the drivers or worry about keeping them up to date, windows can do that.

Only drivers I worry about updating are my GPU drivers, and only as GPU is only a year old still. Eventually I will just ignore updates as they won't really be for my GPU.

I only suggest updating other drivers if you still getting errors.


Any BSOD since fresh install? set up pc to produce minidumps in case you do.

 

[JerrWolf]

No. Motherboard makers only support boards for about 3 years at most. All the drivers on the Asus website are 5 years old now.

BUT windows did a pretty good job of finding the right ones. You don't appear to need any from Asus. Unless GPU is really new, you don't need to touch any of the drivers or worry about keeping them up to date, windows can do that.

Only drivers I worry about updating are my GPU drivers, and only as GPU is only a year old still. Eventually I will just ignore updates as they won't really be for my GPU.

I only suggest updating other drivers if you still getting errors.


Any BSOD since fresh install? set up pc to produce minidumps in case you do.

I see, so the older the product the less often you need to check the manufacturer's page.
Once the product is outside of the supported years, no new drivers will be made so windows will more than not find the correct one?

I did download all the drivers from Asus's Support site, did not run them yet.
Sounds like I don't need to then, Windows Update managed to come in clutch this time.

That said; I did notice that the driver for my BT500 Asus bluetooth was not the same as the driver on the Support page.
When I go into Device Manager and properties for the BT it says Driver Date 11/24/2019 and version 1.6.1015.3009.
On the support page, however, it tells me 2020/05/28 version 1.0.0.4.

I'm a little confused on this one. The date is newer but the driver is lower.
Should I go through Device manager and check for other instances like this?

As for the GPU driver, I did update that to the newest version from Nvidia's site, Windows was a few versions behind.

No BSOD yet, decided to keep my PC out of the Insider Program from now on.
I'd rather get the stability than early access to new bugs.. I mean features.

So this touches up on what someone mentioned earlier.
Outside of GPU (I believe they also mentioned Chipset) drivers, do you really not need to go diving around looking for every single driver to see if it's up-to-date or not?
Last question for the post; Windows Update does have optional downloads for drivers. Should I always let windows take care of it?
For reference, this time the drivers are as followed;
Windows Update Optional Drivers

 

[Colif]

That said; I did notice that the driver for my BT500 Asus bluetooth was not the same as the driver on the Support page.
When I go into Device Manager and properties for the BT it says Driver Date 11/24/2019 and version 1.6.1015.3009.
On the support page, however, it tells me 2020/05/28 version 1.0.0.4.

You being educated on drivers this week.

Asus and other OEM makers have a habit of renaming/renumbering drivers. They don't make the drivers in most cases, just the installer package that may put the Asus labels inside programs. Often they use chips inside made by other companies and add their drivers.

The chips and driver installed I think is actually made by Realtek so Windows has applied the latest driver it has for that chipset.

Should I go through Device manager and check for other instances like this?

no.

do you really not need to go diving around looking for every single driver to see if it's up-to-date or not?

You don't need to worry about updating drivers if PC is working fine now. Adding new drivers can actually cause problems you didn't have. Not all of them are perfect or play nice with each other.

Don't do any of the optional updates unless BSOD return. They might help.

 

[JerrWolf]

You being educated on drivers this week.

Asus and other OEM makers have a habit of renaming/renumbering drivers. They don't make the drivers in most cases, just the installer package that may put the Asus labels inside programs. Often they use chips inside made by other companies and add their drivers.

The chips and driver installed I think is actually made by Realtek so Windows has applied the latest driver it has for that chipset.

I see.
So for right now the only issue I am seeing is my PS5 controller won't stay connected to my PC bluetooth.
It connects, pairs, and then shortly no longer shows on the BT list.
That said I don't know if it's just the battery needs to be charged cuz I haven't figured that much out yet lmao.
Idk how to check it's battery %.
I'll be leaving it plugged into my laptop to see if by the morning the same issue persists. (it should certainly be fully charged by morning lol)

To recap:

1. Windows will more often than not grab the most important drivers needed to function.
2. Not every single software or hardware NEEDS drivers, just the major components (GPU for example).
3. If it ain't broke, don't update it.
4. Updating Drivers that don't need updates can harm a PC more than they benefit a PC.
5. Older systems will more often that get all they need from Windows Update because the newest drivers are "old drivers" and you won't need to go to manufacturer sites to download stuff.
6. Don't use third party software to grab drivers for you (like CCleaner's Driver Updater) as they sometimes grab or install incorrect files. Or at worse grab random files (and possibly viruses?).
7. Windows Optional Drivers are only when you experience issues, ignore otherwise.

When a PC is brand-new, or with a freshly installed OS if Windows doesn't update it--odds are it doesn't need an update.

Did I miss anything in this week long thread? lol.
Do manufaturer utility driver updaters count as "don't use" like on laptops and such?
Also wasn't touched up on yet, but what about Monitor Drivers?

 

[Colif]

• Make use of the DS4Windows Software that is nothing more than an application that allows us to make the driver work better with Windows.
• The DS4Windows application allows you to check the battery level and this can be displayed on the controller screen.
• It is possible to connect the PS5 controller to the PC so that Windows can detect it automatically and in case of being on Steam a battery indicator is shown in the upper corner on the right side.
• In case of not observing this icon, it is usually necessary to choose to click on the gear icon and in this way get access to the configuration of the remote controller in the "Configuration Menu", where we can see the battery level.

https://xboxplay.games/news/ps5-how-to-check-controller-battery-17413

Main rule - if it aint broke, don't fix it

Only thing about 5. Motherboard makers don't update their drivers but the people who make the chips might. So that BT for instance, Realtek might make newer drivers to support their hardware long after card makers do.
You don't have realtek LAN so I won't show you that link. Intel may support the lan on your MB long after Asus do.

but in general windows will look after it for you. it checks if it has newer drivers every version update or perhaps more often, it might be every 2nd Tuesday of month.

 

[JerrWolf]

https://xboxplay.games/news/ps5-how-to-check-controller-battery-17413

Main rule - if it aint broke, don't fix it

Only thing about 5. Motherboard makers don't update their drivers but the people who make the chips might. So that BT for instance, Realtek might make newer drivers to support their hardware long after card makers do.
You don't have realtek LAN so I won't show you that link. Intel may support the lan on your MB long after Asus do.

but in general windows will look after it for you. it checks if it has newer drivers every version update or perhaps more often, it might be every 2nd Tuesday of month.

I'll take a look at the DS4Windows stuff, thank you.
Well for now it doesn't seem I have an issue. I'll give the PC another day or so just to make sure.
Then figure out which answer would be best to mark as best answer lol.

Should I install Intel's driver check that they promote every time you go to download a driver and see if it picks up the specific driver, or just look myself?
Their naming conventions are a little confusing ngl.

As for monitors, device manager displays them both as Generic PnP Monitors.
One of my monitors is a Gsync monitor, will this cause any issues or should I install the monitor driver for it? Windows Update does have a monitor driver in it's optional downloads, that's probably the one.
My second monitor is just a normal 1080p monitor so it probably doesn't need anything?

 

[Colif]

Your lan drivers from Intel are from this year already, I can't see any new ones coming out for it in a rush. I wouldn't bother looking for new ones if current ones work.

don't need monitor drivers, pnp is fine in device manager that is what mine shows too
right click desktop
choose display settings
click Advanced display settings
Does names of monitors show here?
my LG only shows in here, and in the Bluetooth & other devices menu in settings. Windows knows what I have.

 

[JerrWolf]

Your lan drivers from Intel are from this year already, I can't see any new ones coming out for it in a rush. I wouldn't bother looking for new ones if current ones work.

don't need monitor drivers, pnp is fine in device manager that is what mine shows too
right click desktop
choose display settings
click Advanced display settings
Does names of monitors show here?
my LG only shows in here, and in the Bluetooth & other devices menu in settings. Windows knows what I have.

It does show both names in the drop down menu in advance display settings, and in BT and other devices it shows them as well--under Audio.

 

[Colif]

You don't need the Monitor drivers. You don't need to go through every device in device manager and make sure you have drivers. Not all of its areas are current anymore.

For instance Mice. There are 2 areas for keyboards/mice in device manager, both are for legacy devices. The Keyboards/Mice areas just exist for old devices that assume folders exist.
Mice/Keyboards should actually show under Human Interface Devices but even then a lot won't show in there as their true names
Most of mine show as HID-Compliant consumer control Device or HID Compliant Vendor-defined device or USB Input Device. Only my mouse shows up in there at all.
The only place I see what Keyboard/Mouse I actually have is in settings/devices

Checking for drivers does not require this much work. Windows is pretty good at finding most things.

Or you can use programs made by hardware makers to update their drivers.
My mouse is made by Steelseries, they have a program that I can use to update its drivers.
Keyboard is made by Corsair who also happen to make my AIO and rgb ram so I had Icue installed and it updates their drivers.
Gpu - I have a 1 year old GPU so using Geforce Experience to get new drivers makes sense right now. As it gets older, the need to use new drivers will go away.
Intel - I do use the updater but I only have 3 intel drivers on PC - LAN & WIFI - so i don't really need it.

But I wouldn't spend a long time worrying about it. More fun things to be doing.

 

[JerrWolf]

You don't need the Monitor drivers. You don't need to go through every device in device manager and make sure you have drivers. Not all of its areas are current anymore.

For instance Mice. There are 2 areas for keyboards/mice in device manager, both are for legacy devices. The Keyboards/Mice areas just exist for old devices that assume folders exist.
Mice/Keyboards should actually show under Human Interface Devices but even then a lot won't show in there as their true names
Most of mine show as HID-Compliant consumer control Device or HID Compliant Vendor-defined device or USB Input Device. Only my mouse shows up in there at all.
The only place I see what Keyboard/Mouse I actually have is in settings/devices

Checking for drivers does not require this much work. Windows is pretty good at finding most things.

Or you can use programs made by hardware makers to update their drivers.
My mouse is made by Steelseries, they have a program that I can use to update its drivers.
Keyboard is made by Corsair who also happen to make my AIO and rgb ram so I had Icue installed and it updates their drivers.
Gpu - I have a 1 year old GPU so using Geforce Experience to get new drivers makes sense right now. As it gets older, the need to use new drivers will go away.
Intel - I do use the updater but I only have 3 intel drivers on PC - LAN & WIFI - so i don't really need it.

But I wouldn't spend a long time worrying about it. More fun things to be doing.

I see.
So basically I was overly cautious (due to the original BSOD issue) for no real reason because my system is so old drivers are almost a non-factor.
Last night I ran Prime 95 as well as my own game to see if any issues occurred. I had no issues from P95 and no issues (yet) from the game running.
Even my temps are a little more under control right now lol.

Well I think we're finally done here, I've learned a bit more than I started with, and hopefully anyone who reads this down the road will too.

Thank you and everyone else for all the help, if I ever need help down the road, you know I'll be back with a new thread haha.

I think for the main scope of the thread your very first response was the best, we kind of split off into BSOD and troubleshooting afterwards haha.
Cheers.