Windows 10 To Adopt macOS-Like Security Preferences, Allow Users To Block Win32 Apps

[Lucian Armasu]

Future build of Windows 10 to include macOS-like security preferences that will allow users to block Win32 completely, or just partially.

Windows 10 To Adopt macOS-Like Security Preferences, Allow Users To Block Win32 Apps : Read more

 

[Guest]

UWP apps are garbage and Windows 10 the way is Microsoft pushing it has no future...

 

[Guest]

The Microsoft App store is filled with garbage.

 

[ravewulf]

Some of the programs I use have the power to modify Windows itself for customization purposes which I'm betting is far too permissive for their taste, but given that I hate the direction they've taken the Windows UI, I really don't care.

I also had to create a new "Program Files (Admin)" folder for things like MeGUI which don't work properly from the usual "Program Files" and "Program Files (x86)" folders in Win10 thanks to new security restrictions.

On one hand I hope it really does cut down on malicious software installed by normal users, on the other hand it makes being a power user an extremely frustrating experience.

 

[Tom Griffin]

Simple question do any of you have Visual Studio 2015 and have you ever written software? UWP is an extension of the .NET stuff and you can do lots of nifty things with it. Yeah go ahead and make fun of me; have been a M$ programmer since 1977 and their BASIC compiler for the TRS-80 (that was a blast; using X=USR(0) to hop into assembly); did a 5 year stint at MicroFirmware we made Phoenix BIOS products that not only broke the 515mb HDD barrier but discovered the A:20 gate fault using EMM386; and faints the phantom FAT partitions in DOS 5.

The framework makes it easier for me to asynchronous callbacks to web sites requesting HTTP information on remote GPS systems atm; VS 2010 was good 2015 rocks.

 

[shrapnel_indie]

However, the problem with Win32 programs is that they aren’t written as “Universal Windows Platform”(UWP) apps, which makes them much less portable.

UWP apps are NOT universal. They LOCK YOU INto the Windows 10 platform. The only thing "universal" about it is it is supposed to allow you to use it on any Windows 10 (and its flavors for XBox, Tablet, or Phone) platform. As a developer, it locks you into their tools as well. Currently MS still is supporting Windows 7, 8, and 8.1... UWP will not run on those systems. period.

Microsoft's ultimate goal of getting all Windows users to use only UWP apps does not sit well with some game developers, who think Microsoft will restrict them from the platform.

Microsoft could get nasty again easily enough, especially if they think they can get away with it. How many remember the Windows Certified" program they had a couple decades or so back? Remember Microsoft had a tendency to NOT issue the certification if the developer also developed a version for another OS? It could go the same here... "Oh dear, I see you develop for Playstation..." "Oh dear, I see you develop for Linux...", etc. All they'd have to do is lock everything into their app store, and there goes GOG, UPLAY, ORIGIN, STEAM, etc... all in the name of "security".... yeah more like security in getting their hands in everyone else's publishing and developing business.

The lock into a specific "owned" folder for the app won't fly very well in the business world either where one app may listen in on a server, grab files and then send them off to another app to process them into different formats. Anyone ever look at the Electronic Data Interchange formats out there? Anyone store their data files on some other drive than where the OS is installed?

I also guarantee it will NOT stop malicious software. Java promised that in the beginning, now... it fails miserably, and in some cases even runs horribly slow. Apple's Walled Garden, even with its examinations and testing for approval to be included, still has security issues with the apps it offers. You can even see problems within the Android Store too.

No, this is just another power-play from Microsoft disguised as "protection for the masses who are just too stupid to know what they want or to know what they are doing." And... anyone that isn't them is part of "the masses."

 

[shrapnel_indie]

[quotemsg=19356544,0,289610]Simple question do any of you have Visual Studio 2015 and have you ever written software? UWP is an extension of the .NET stuff and you can do lots of nifty things with it. Yeah go ahead and make fun of me; have been a M$ programmer since 1977 and their BASIC compiler for the TRS-80 (that was a blast; using X=USR(0) to hop into assembly); did a 5 year stint at MicroFirmware we made Phoenix BIOS products that not only broke the 515mb HDD barrier but discovered the A:20 gate fault using EMM386; and faints the phantom FAT partitions in DOS 5.

The framework makes it easier for me to asynchronous callbacks to web sites requesting HTTP information on remote GPS systems atm; VS 2010 was good 2015 rocks.[/quotemsg]

Yeah, I use VS2015... I've used VS since VS2005 and have seen the changes there too that say "programmers don't know what they're doing" (unless its them.) You have to bend over backwards to get VS to comply with how you want it to look, behave, and automatically include by default in your "solutions" and projects. Yeah UWP is an extension of .NET... but it is also a repackaging of the failed CX, CLI, and WinRT extensions.

 

[Dosflores]

[quotemsg=19356544,0,289610]Simple question do any of you have Visual Studio 2015 and have you ever written software? UWP is an extension of the .NET stuff and you can do lots of nifty things with it. Yeah go ahead and make fun of me; have been a M$ programmer since 1977 and their BASIC compiler for the TRS-80 (that was a blast; using X=USR(0) to hop into assembly); did a 5 year stint at MicroFirmware we made Phoenix BIOS products that not only broke the 515mb HDD barrier but discovered the A:20 gate fault using EMM386; and faints the phantom FAT partitions in DOS 5.

The framework makes it easier for me to asynchronous callbacks to web sites requesting HTTP information on remote GPS systems atm; VS 2010 was good 2015 rocks.[/quotemsg]

Yeah, I use VS2015, and it's great. I don't use the UWP API, though, although I guess it's great too.

What's your point? UWP is great for developers, so it must be for users too? I guess most users want to do whatever they please with their computers, so they won't like not being able to buy any app from anywhere other than the Windows Store.

 

[John Nemesh]

Another effort by MS to FORCE users into their GARBAGE store! No thanks!

 

[ohim]

Like Android or iOS store is full of only useful stuff ... the only thing they have better is that they were the first with a store and major companies built apps on those, in rest there is a lot of garbage in those stores as well ...

At this point the hate bandwagon is so high that people will complain about everything.

 

[Tom Griffin]

I did not mean to complain or anything like that; I was just saying I enjoyed programming. And the tools today seem to work rather well for my needs.

 

[alextheblue]

[quotemsg=19357335,0,216536]Like Android or iOS store is full of only useful stuff ... the only thing they have better is that they were the first with a store and major companies built apps on those, in rest there is a lot of garbage in those stores as well ...

At this point the hate bandwagon is so high that people will complain about everything.[/quotemsg]
Bingo. For some bizarre reason people treat the Windows Store differently than they do the iOS or Android stores. They freak out over UWP and the Store and bash MS at every turn, just for doing what all modern platforms do. They're not prohibiting Win32 code, in fact they're working to bring Win32 non-native programs to ARM. What they're doing is giving people more control - I know a lot of PCs that are used for office work that would benefit from this option. The admins can still install Win32 programs, just not users. Heck it might come in handy for keeping grandma safe from the effects of clicking ads or questionable sites in search results.

Also, for those who stomp their feet and say "UWP isn't truly multiplatform!" well no, it was never intended to be. MS only controls THEIR code, not the code for other operating systems, so that would be rather difficult. They would need at least some control over the other OS and store to do that from their side. However, DEVELOPERS can make their software multiplatform by releasing UWP, iOS, and Android apps built using multi-platform dev solutions like Xamarin. Using Xamarin as an example you can use the same C# codebase across all the major platforms, sharing 75+ % of the code. If you use portable libraries and Forms you can nearly share 100% of the code.

 

[epobirs]

Commenters here are typing before thinking. This is an administrative whitelist option of the sort that would be a great deficiency if it didn't exist. If you are an IT professional, or just have to take responsibility for a bunch of home users, you want to have options to restrict where stuff, especially code, is allow to get onto the systems these people use.

Unless you enjoy rebuilding your elderly relative's machine for the third time in a year.

 

[Dosflores]

[quotemsg=19357402,0,289610]I did not mean to complain or anything like that; I was just saying I enjoyed programming. And the tools today seem to work rather well for my needs.[/quotemsg]

The tools work great no matter if you use the UWP API or not. VS2015's compile-while-you-write feature (to check for errors) is awesome, and it works no matter what API you use. So I prefer not to use "universal" APIs that not only restrict me to a specific OS (= Windows), but also to a specific OS version (= 10). I code using VS2015, and my code works on Windows 7-10, Linux, macOS, iOS, and Android. That's what I enjoy the most.

 

[Dosflores]

[quotemsg=19358565,0,5190]For some bizarre reason people treat the Windows Store differently than they do the iOS or Android stores. They freak out over UWP and the Store and bash MS at every turn, just for doing what all modern platforms do. They're not prohibiting Win32 code, in fact they're working to bring Win32 non-native programs to ARM. What they're doing is giving people more control - I know a lot of PCs that are used for office work that would benefit from this option. The admins can still install Win32 programs, just not users. Heck it might come in handy for keeping grandma safe from the effects of clicking ads or questionable sites in search results.[/quotemsg]

I think the "bizarre" reason people treat the Windows Store differently than they do the iOS store is the fact that there has never been just one store to buy your apps on PC, unlike iOS. And the "bizarre" reason people treat the Windows Store differently than they do the Android stores is the fact that there are different stores for Android. Sure, Google Play is king, but there are different stores. UWP apps must be digitally signed by Microsoft in order to be able to sell them. That's one step further from macOS's current policies, where Apple must sign only the apps which are to be sold on the Mac App Store. Developers can sign their own apps to sell them everywhere else.

So, no, it's not "what all modern platforms do".

I agree that some options can be useful for offices and grandmas. But, if I were to ditch Win32 apps in order to improve security and reliability, I would ditch Windows entirely, and install Linux. With Linux, you're the one in charge of the security and reliability of your computers. With Windows 10 and the Windows Store for Business, you rely on Microsoft's products and services to keep your computers working. Okay, that's not a big deal for granny's computer, but I don't want my business to rely on Microsoft in order to operate perfectly.

 

[mspencerl87]

Haven't we been able to block apps we don't want to run since 7?
AppLocker?

 

[Dosflores]

[quotemsg=19359343,0,672608]Haven't we been able to block apps we don't want to run since 7?
AppLocker?[/quotemsg]

Yep, which proves that this isn't a granny/office-oriented feature, but a "let's make another iOS App Store ecosystem and get lots of money" feature.

 

[therealduckofdeath]

Enterprise editions of Windows has always had built in blocks to prevent users from installing things and control installations sources. The only new thing here is the tighter integration with the Widows Store.
On a side note; reading comments here is always a nice way to kill some brain cells.

 

[sadsteve]

Windows 10 has already improved my security. I now do the majority of my daily computing on LInux and only boot to Windows to play games.

 

[JimmiG]

Sorry I can't hear you all over the sound of Tim Sweeney nerd-raging.