Question Windows 11 "Freezes" after idling ?

[REALOldNick]

PC details below. Any help appreciated.

I do not know if this relevant, but I am signed in without a password. I was signed in with a local account password.PC details below.

I have only recently changed to Win 11 from Win. Under Win 10 this never happened. I did however have a fair bit of audio instability with Win 10.

• The PC has been set to never go to sleep or turn off the screen.
• The monitor is a TV, connected by HDMI. Everything functions fine with this setup, until this happened.
• I am not aware of what changes I may have made to trigger the problem.; I have made several as I try to sort out Win 11.

The problem:
If I leave the PC on say, overnight, when I start to use it in the morning, it pretty well reliably becomes inoperable. Any apps that had been left running still function, but I am unable to usefully start any others.

I say it this way because it is not actually frozen:

• each app takes maybe 2-4 minutes, from clicking its button, until it starts.
• Hitting the icon several times results in multiple instances of any app that allows that.
• Apps that I close down behave the same if I try to then fire them up again.
• Apps that have their icon in the Taskbar and those on screen are all affected.
• Task Manager also behaves the same, but its latest was a message to the effect that the sign-in process had failed and that Task Manager could not operate, or words to that effect. It had an OK button, but the message said Hit Esc to return to operation or use the power button to restart.
• The power button was the only option.
• After restart, everything seems normal

SYSINFO

OS Name Microsoft Windows 11 Home
Version 10.0.22621 Build 22621
Other OS Description Not Available
OS Manufacturer Microsoft Corporation
System Name DESKTOP-EEIS2SC
System Manufacturer To Be Filled By O.E.M.
System Model H570M Pro4
System Type x64-based PC
System SKU To Be Filled By O.E.M.
Processor Intel(R) Core(TM) i3-10105F CPU @ 3.70GHz, 3696 Mhz, 4 Core(s), 8 Logical Processor(s)
BIOS Version/Date American Megatrends International, LLC. P2.00, 06/06/2022
SMBIOS Version 3.3
Embedded Controller Version 255.255
BIOS Mode UEFI
BaseBoard Manufacturer ASRock
BaseBoard Product H570M Pro4
BaseBoard Version
Platform Role Desktop
Secure Boot State On
PCR7 Configuration Elevation Required to View
Windows Directory C:\WINDOWS
System Directory C:\WINDOWS\system32
Boot Device \Device\HarddiskVolume3
Locale United Kingdom
Hardware Abstraction Layer Version = "10.0.22621.819"
Username DESKTOP-EEIS2SC\OldNick
Time Zone W. Australia Standard Time
Installed Physical Memory (RAM) 8.00 GB
Total Physical Memory 7.90 GB
Available Physical Memory 5.37 GB
Total Virtual Memory 8.40 GB
Available Virtual Memory 4.83 GB
Page File Space 512 MB
Page File C:\pagefile.sys
Kernel DMA Protection On
Virtualisation-based security Not enabled
Windows Defender Application Control policy Enforced
Windows Defender Application Control user mode policy Off
Device Encryption Support Elevation Required to View
Hyper-V - VM Monitor Mode Extensions Yes
Hyper-V - Second Level Address Translation Extensions Yes
Hyper-V - Virtualisation Enabled in Firmware Yes
Hyper-V - Data Execution Protection Yes

 

[Ralston18]

Look in Reliability History and Event Viewer. Either one or both tools may be capturing some relevant error code, warning, or a simple informational event that precedes or corresponds with the freeze events.

Reliability History has a time line format that may reveal a specific problem or pattern.

Event Viewer is not as user friendly and requires more time and effort to navigate and to understand.

FYI:

http://www.tomshardware.com/faq/id-3128616/windows-event-viewer.html

Both tools can provide additional details. However, the details may or may not be helpful.

Take a look. No need to rush through either tool.

 

[REALOldNick]

Thanks very much for that!

Checking them out right now.

 

[REALOldNick]

OK. I checked them out and I have a bazillion things to chase up. But after diving down the rabbit hole and ferreting about, I came up with the problem shown below, in the Sysinfo.

• there was a "Windows did not shut down correctly" just about every day, but I assume that was me hard resetting.
• there were many warnings and errors about DComs

I did run DISM.exe /Online /Cleanup-image /Restorehealth and sfc /scannow

Problem Devices:
PCI Device PCI\VEN_8086&DEV_43A4&SUBSYS_43A41849&REV_11\3&11583659&0&FD The drivers for this device are not installed.
SM Bus Controller PCI\VEN_8086&DEV_43A3&SUBSYS_43A31849&REV_11\3&11583659&0&FC The drivers for this device are not installed.

One suggestion I read (if I understood right) was to update or install the drivers for the MoBo/BIOS and see if that helps. I have not done that yet, mainly from fear. The BIOS shows that it had the latest version, but I suppose it could be damaged.

Before I go any further, could this be a source of the problem?

Again, thanks for any help.

 

[Ralston18]

Damaged - could be.

No harm in delving further. I found this Microsoft link:

https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us...g-update/8cbe099d-5aa4-40c4-bbf8-27aebfbb369e

Look in Update History for any problem or failed updates.

For the most part my overall view is to just leave BIOS alone unless there is some specific problem and it is well known/documented that a BIOS update will fix the problem. Very conservative there.

In the meantime do be sure that all important data is backed up at least 2 x to locations away from the problem PC. Verify that the backups are recoverable and readable.

As for the hard resets - those will create "improperly shutdown" errors. However, take a closer look at what all may have preceded the need to do so.

Likely some other error codes, warnings, or informational events. Look for patterns.

 

[johnbl]

Intel Corporation

8086

Tiger Lake-H SPI Controller

43a4

and the intel system management bus driver are not installed.
I would try and load them with this tool from intel:Intel® Driver & Support Assistant

these two drivers are not likely to be the cause of the problem. try the update and maybe some other drivers will be updated also.

most likely you have some sleep issue with a driver. ie goes to sleep but does not wake. This can have various common root causes. for example, if you attempt to wake the system via keyboard but the keyboard is connected to a usb port and the port is asleep. fix is to go into windows control panel, device manager, find the usb hubs and right mouse click to bring up properties, then find the power management tab and check the option to tell windows not to put the device to sleep to save power. You want to prevent the hub from going to sleep so the mouse or keyboard can send the usb signal to wake the system.

you can also set the system to not sleep to see if the problem is sleep related. often sleep problems require bios updates and driver updates (depending on the age of the motherboard) windows implemented new sleep states in the last few months and this causes another round of bugs to be exposed.

if you have a AIO cpu cooler make sure it is not connected to a usb port hub that can sleep.
it will go to sleep and the cpu will overheat. You would need the missing drivers installed to get the system to shutdown the system automatically.
3.70GHz cpu running at 3696 Mhz a very slight underclock.
makes me wonder if you have some reason it is being underclocked.
(overheated?)

 

[REALOldNick]

Intel Corporation

8086

Tiger Lake-H SPI Controller

43a4

and the intel system management bus driver are not installed.
I would try and load them with this tool from intel:Intel® Driver & Support Assistant

these two drivers are not likely to be the cause of the problem. try the update and maybe some other drivers will be updated also.

most likely you have some sleep issue with a driver. ie goes to sleep but does not wake. This can have various common root causes. for example, if you attempt to wake the system via keyboard but the keyboard is connected to a usb port and the port is asleep. fix is to go into windows control panel, device manager, find the usb hubs and right mouse click to bring up properties, then find the power management tab and check the option to tell windows not to put the device to sleep to save power. You want to prevent the hub from going to sleep so the mouse or keyboard can send the usb signal to wake the system.

you can also set the system to not sleep to see if the problem is sleep related. often sleep problems require bios updates and driver updates (depending on the age of the motherboard) windows implemented new sleep states in the last few months and this causes another round of bugs to be exposed.

if you have a AIO cpu cooler make sure it is not connected to a usb port hub that can sleep.
it will go to sleep and the cpu will overheat. You would need the missing drivers installed to get the system to shutdown the system automatically.
3.70GHz cpu running at 3696 Mhz a very slight underclock.
makes me wonder if you have some reason it is being underclocked.
(overheated?)

You guys are so ....good! Sounds a bit toadying, but it's true. This is an amazing forum. None match it when it is so widespread. I have used and posted to application-specific forums that had this level of dedication, but not this broad. Thanks.

Corrrr! OK. I guess a long silence will come from this end while I work through this!

I will do the install. I don't want to fiddle with the BIOS, but I am not happy with a report of an apparently major part that is simply missing and unidentified.

By set the system to not sleep you mean at BIOS level? Windows is already set up to never sleep

The PC has been on for many hours in the idle state and there is no sign of overheating, but I will do as you suggest. I have Coretemp to check.

I have no idea why there is slight underclocking. I just assumed that 3696 was computer speak for 4000 . I have not altered clock speed. I am not about to start now until I sort out this darn bug!

Again thank you

 

[REALOldNick]

Damaged - could be.

No harm in delving further. I found this Microsoft link:

https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us...g-update/8cbe099d-5aa4-40c4-bbf8-27aebfbb369e

Look in Update History for any problem or failed updates.

For the most part my overall view is to just leave BIOS alone unless there is some specific problem and it is well known/documented that a BIOS update will fix the problem. Very conservative there.

In the meantime do be sure that all important data is backed up at least 2 x to locations away from the problem PC. Verify that the backups are recoverable and readable.

As for the hard resets - those will create "improperly shutdown" errors. However, take a closer look at what all may have preceded the need to do so.

Likely some other error codes, warnings, or informational events. Look for patterns.

I will check out that link and thank you.

I have plenty of failed updates. I will investigate. Some seemed to be for specific apps. But then that same update would show success.

I agree about the BIOS fiddling, as I said. Getting very fundamental. I actually saw a couple of comments that what I was seeing was an unlikely cause of my problem and that something else was more likely.

Yeah. Back up data. I have to see how many 2TB drives I have. This PC is an Entertainment Centre, with 2 2TB drives for DVDs and CDs. Maybe easier to just remove the 2 drives while I sort this out.

I will check out adjacent warnings and errors around the hard resets.

Maybe I will just buy and old Jaguar Mk2 and spend more time fixing then driving that!

 

[johnbl]

looks like your system is running the most current bios version for your machine.
since your system is set to not sleep then that eliminates a lot of potential error cases.
now you have to look for a memory leak in the system. Some app or driver using up all the available memory spaces until the system gets wedged up and can not start a new process.

first thing to do is to increase the pagefile.sys, it is way to small at 512 mb. generally, you would want it to be 1.5 to 2 times the size of your physical RAM. You have 8GB of RAM. I would set the pagefile.sys to be 16 GB this will allow windows memory manager to move data/programs out of RAM and put them in virtual memory inside the pagefile.sys.

you can use task manager/resource monitior to look at your systems memory usage. The type of memory being used gives a hint as to the type of program that causes the problem. For example, if it is non paged memory then the problem is caused by a device driver rather than a app.

this tool is helpful in finding the cause of a memory leak/ excess memory used:
RAMMap - Sysinternals | Microsoft Learn

ram map has a menu item called empty, run the tool as an administrator and select each of the "empty" memory items and it will free up a bunch of windows functions that load up your memory. It will reduce the number of items you have to sort through to find what the problem is.
Generally, you should be looking at 3rd party drivers (non microsoft drivers) for memory leaks. take a photo screen shot, then wait over night and take another and see the difference in memory use.
look for bugs in apps like drivers that change led lights colors.

increasing the pagefile size does not fix a memory leak but it does extend the time before your system runs out of memory. The RAM would have to fill up then the PAGEFILE.sys would have to fill up. bugchecking or doing a full shutdown starts the process of the memory leak again from the begining.

8 gb RAM is on the low end of what people have in systems today. (just fyi)

note: just noticed you have 3 drives. (more than one pagefile)
you might download and run crystaldiskinfo.exe and check the SMART data from the drives to see the drive health. You might also consider turning off virtual memory, rebooting and turning it back on. This will create a new pagefile.sys on each drive and fixes problems where malware is infecting the old pagefile.sys or the pagefile.sys is having problems with TRIM functions in the drive firmware.
(firmware TRIM problem is not likely in this case if the drive does not sleep)

The monitor is a TV, connected by HDMI: not a standard setup. you might consider:
when your system is locked up in the morning: unplug the hdmi cable from the gpu, wait a short time and plug it back in. See if it has any effect. hdmi can carry sound to your tv from the GPU sound driver. There have been bugs in realtek motherboard sound drivers where they respond to the sound commands that the GPU sound driver is making. So consider going into windows device manager and find all the sound devices that do not have speakers connected to them and disable them. I would even disable any video capture drivers that are used to capture streaming of games.
(unless you actually use them)

 

[REALOldNick]

VERY sorry, johnBl, for a slow reply. I have seen no email note that you had replied. This reply is even more slow, because I was distracted and did not actually post it. Sorry.

I will look into what you suggest, starting with the pagefile size. I am guessing it was shown as 512MB because it was set to let Win 11 handle it. I have set it to max out at 20000MB/20GB. As you say that will not stop any underlying problems, but just hold off a memory leak. If the problem "goes away" then I will reduce file size and try again. In the interests of both remaining sane and also trying to isolate the exact problem, I am going one step at a time.

I agree that 8GB is small, but this machine was a basic one, meant only for playing audio and video, nothing else....well except messaging on forums

 

[REALOldNick]

I tried the larger pagefile.sys and there was still the same trouble as before....so on we go.: the road is long, with many a winding turn...etc.

 

[REALOldNick]

Hi people. I am sorry I let this thread die after all you input. Fact of the matter is I gave up. I felt I was getting nowhere after much washing and gnailing .

I have decided to try another MoBo. They are not very expensive at my level of PC, and I use almost identical setup on my trusty old Giga, including the fact that these troubles started on Win 10 and worsened under Win 11, on this machine in question . That is only partial logic, I know, but a relatively inexpensive way to see what happens.

Thanks again for so much thought and effort and my apologies for not fully utilising it. I will let you know what happens.

 

[REALOldNick]

Well....it was just toying with me. From the day I decided to give up, as I said, it has not given me one single bit of trouble. It had to be a joke at my expense.

 

[Ralston18]

Gremlins.

Or some "quiet" update fixed a problem.

Do keep your backups up to date........

 

[REALOldNick]

Gremlins.

Or some "quiet" update fixed a problem.

Do keep your backups up to date........

Sorry about the slow reply. I did not get notified.

I had updated all drivers and have Win 11 updating as it needs. I can only reckon that something in Win has been altered and it's not stuffing me about any more.

 

[SkyNetRising]

I had updated all drivers and have Win 11 updating as it needs. I can only reckon that something in Win has been altered and it's not stuffing me about any more.

You had Intel chipset drivers missing before.
Installing those may have fixed your issue.

 

[REALOldNick]

Yebbut the trouble with that is...how can I say,....whatever I did made no discernible difference...until I did nothing!