Question Windows 11 fried my pc

[econcepts]

well, this is odd - I have several older PC's with GA-78LMT-USB3 main boards in them. one had a FX-4100 (4 core) and the other had an FX-6100 (six core). I installed windows 11 on my main PC (just vanilla) and imaged it. I loaded the image on the first PC and it seemed to work fine. Played with it all day - at the end of the day it had downloaded an update so I let it update and restart. After saying to hold on it was updating (or whatever that message was), it rebooted but the screen stayed black. Waited for hours, nothing, so I held down the power button, it shut down. Pushed the power button, it came back on, but no beeps, just a black screen. Tried a different, PS, CPU, removing the memory, clear CMOS, removing the battery, removing all the cables. Determined it must be the main board. Now bear in mind that these PC have been running windows 10 just fine for many years. I chucked the mainboard and set the case aside. Booted up the next one to windows 10. Played with it for an hour, it works flawlessly. I set aside an image of windows 10 and loaded the same image of windows 11 on it. Seemed to work perfectly, even activated with a digital license, and no uninstalled devices in device manager. played with it for hours after which it wanted to update, which I did with the exact same unfortunate result. Different PC, power supply, main board, CPU, memory, hdd, case but same model motherboard just one was revision 4.1 (blue board) and one was revision 5 (black board). Two for two on two perfectly reliable, long running PC. Both dead - will not beep or post at all. I think windows 11 murdered them both. Any ideas, I might have missed?

 

[Rogue Leader]

He did do the initial install on a brand new system and used the clone from that on the old systems, so if the new system had this type of bios update...
The question is if it would just do it without checking if it's still on the same mobo.

The BIOS update doesn't reside in Windows though, in theory for this to happen it would have been waiting to install when he shut down and then gotten installed once connected to the new hardware, with different hardware this is highly highly unlikely to be even possible, let alone happen twice on two different boards.

On top of that my examples were for consumer laptops, I've never ever heard of enthusiast board BIOS updates being pushed through Windows update, if that actually would happen people would collectively mutiny against Microsoft.

 

[Colif]

Pretty sure the only BIOS updates you might get through Windows update are from OEM hardware makers,

Lenovo bios updates were being pushed over it last year
Asus say you can but it might just be laptops they make - https://www.asus.com/support/FAQ/1035492/
Dell still use their updater I think.

So unless your desktop PC was made by Dell or HP or another big OEM then its unlikely the BIOS was updated via windows update. Most of the big Motherboard makers have their own tools to let you install BIOS, in a number of ways. Be it inside windows or inside the BIOS.

 

[JohnBonhamsGhost]

No, I am careful, there is nothing "pirate" about it. I actually installed it from an official windows 11 pro OEM DVD from MS

being OEM and being "official" MS are two different things.

OEM meaning that it has been altered by whatever 3rd party manufactured distributor has offered it.

and official MS meaning it was created with a legitimate Microsoft creation tool or just from a Microsoft official image download.

but it's already been determined that you have not followed "official" download/install procedures so any fault you have experienced is user created.

 

[scottyswayne]

it is possible that a driver software was the cause because its an oem alreadied installed and it loaded the wrong cpu configeration and fried it but thats an odd issue as it should have bsod ive used my hardisk in two diffrent pc one with ryzan oe with fx cpu usaly windows installs the drivers at start up and mine never fried not even a bsod i had to do this to recover my files so i doubt it was windows unless that oem was faulty and did not update drivers before startip but if he had any overclocking options enabled that would kick in but again the pc would cut power. so again it was defintly not windows that did it unless he had on his other pc messed with the performance option and se it on high and it dammaged the thermal system i never keep my performance on high thats very risky the comuter will kick off if it gets hot but if this is ignored it can damage the cpu if it shuts off then the performance settings is the issue as windows 11 will overclock the cpu

 

[Cj-tech]

well, this is odd - I have several older PC's with GA-78LMT-USB3 main boards in them. one had a FX-4100 (4 core) and the other had an FX-6100 (six core). I installed windows 11 on my main PC (just vanilla) and imaged it. I loaded the image on the first PC and it seemed to work fine. Played with it all day - at the end of the day it had downloaded an update so I let it update and restart. After saying to hold on it was updating (or whatever that message was), it rebooted but the screen stayed black. Waited for hours, nothing, so I held down the power button, it shut down. Pushed the power button, it came back on, but no beeps, just a black screen. Tried a different, PS, CPU, removing the memory, clear CMOS, removing the battery, removing all the cables. Determined it must be the main board. Now bear in mind that these PC have been running windows 10 just fine for many years. I chucked the mainboard and set the case aside. Booted up the next one to windows 10. Played with it for an hour, it works flawlessly. I set aside an image of windows 10 and loaded the same image of windows 11 on it. Seemed to work perfectly, even activated with a digital license, and no uninstalled devices in device manager. played with it for hours after which it wanted to update, which I did with the exact same unfortunate result. Different PC, power supply, main board, CPU, memory, hdd, case but same model motherboard just one was revision 4.1 (blue board) and one was revision 5 (black board). Two for two on two perfectly reliable, long running PC. Both dead - will not beep or post at all. I think windows 11 murdered them both. Any ideas, I might have missed?

After reading through this thread, I can confirm that HP does have Firmware/BIOS updates through Windows Update. A lot of the new mini-desktop computers I work on for clients have these updates available. However, that’s probably not the case in this thread.

Since the OP cloned the original Windows 11 installation, it seems more than likely that the BIOS were updated on the “fried” systems using the preconfigured software for the original system. If the OP was playing around as stated in the original post, there could have easily been an update done. Maybe that’s wrong, but seems more likely than a BIOS update from Windows Update.

 

[Rogue Leader]

it is possible that a driver software was the cause because its an oem alreadied installed and it loaded the wrong cpu configeration and fried it but thats an odd issue as it should have bsod ive used my hardisk in two diffrent pc one with ryzan oe with fx cpu usaly windows installs the drivers at start up and mine never fried not even a bsod i had to do this to recover my files so i doubt it was windows unless that oem was faulty and did not update drivers before startip but if he had any overclocking options enabled that would kick in but again the pc would cut power. so again it was defintly not windows that did it unless he had on his other pc messed with the performance option and se it on high and it dammaged the thermal system i never keep my performance on high thats very risky the comuter will kick off if it gets hot but if this is ignored it can damage the cpu if it shuts off then the performance settings is the issue as windows 11 will overclock the cpu

This post is nearly unintelligible. We of course appreciate our community providing help, but please use proper punctuation, grammar, and so on. Its also clear you may not be fully knowledgeable on the situation, might I suggest sitting out on topics you're not fully versed on.

After reading through this thread, I can confirm that HP does have Firmware/BIOS updates through Windows Update. A lot of the new mini-desktop computers I work on for clients have these updates available. However, that’s probably not the case in this thread.

Since the OP cloned the original Windows 11 installation, it seems more than likely that the BIOS were updated on the “fried” systems using the preconfigured software for the original system. If the OP was playing around as stated in the original post, there could have easily been an update done. Maybe that’s wrong, but seems more likely than a BIOS update from Windows Update.

He did not use a prebuilt to create the drives though, so other than installing Gigabyte @bios software and somehow forcing a BIOS install its just not possible. I own a Gigabyte board, there is no way to make it install a BIOS update it doesn't fully want to by verifying the hardware.

In reading his initial post nowhere does he say he took the original Windows 10 Hard drives from these systems that he removed and tried to boot the systems back up with them. I don't think his hardware is fried, I think Windows 11 when it did that update borked the hard drives that it was on. Now unfortunately he has yanked everything apart a few times so any number of small issues could come in to play, but I'd bet money that if he put those original Hard drives back on, the systems would boot into Windows 10.

 

[econcepts]

I see three possible errors in what has been mentioned here:
Original poster mentioned he bought windows from MS.
As far as I know, MS does not sell OEM copies directly, only retail.
-This should not be an issue, oem or retail shouldn't affect things.

Windows cannot be installed on unsupported hardware
-This is wrong, it's been mentioned multiple times that installing from USB/ISO will work on almost all hardware, TPM or not, what might or might not work after that are windows updates.
IF they do work, they might still assume that computer WILL have TPM module, it's a requirement for windows 11. and subsequent boots will not work.
-computer should still run, do it's post check and you should be able to enter bios or reinstall OS on it.
-Microsoft has mentioned that this is only for testing purposes and it does not support this.

Installing image of computer 1's system to computer 2 with completely different hardware
-Original poster mentioned that he has multiple systems with same identical MB, which means that besides CPU and possibly GPU, 99% of systems are identical. (okay, GPU+CPU is more than 1% but still, if using integrated GPU, it leaves only CPU as different part)
it should and would quite likely work and could have some random ghosts in long run, stopping computer from booting? not quite.


Now.. I am no expert on computers that wont give a beep on startup even without memory (they should, it's standard POST startup thing) These things might sound dumb:
-You connected the front panel pc-speaker for beeps, right?
-have you tried to reset the cmos by shorting the pins or removing the battery?

I fear I have no better alternatives to try.

Well, it turns out that its only the first one that wont make a sound. The second system (Hardware Revision 5 of the GA-78LMT-USB3), does in fact continuously "long beep" when the memory is removed (apparently not good to make assumptions), but the Revision 4.1 does not, so yes, I did not make the basic mistake of not connecting the speaker. Since I got some indication that the 2nd system is progressing at least three steps into the post, I am going to try reflashing the BIOS with a CH341A flash programmer just for kicks and see what happens. I have recently found out that there are some systems that receive BIOS updates through windows update (11). (see ASUS) Oh and BTW, you are correct, I am using the 710? chip integrated GPU a Radeon HD 4xxx something or other. Fun Fact: Gigabyte does still make this MB in a Hardware Revision 6 version, but its ~$300 ish. I took some liberties with the source and called it MS because It was not relevant but if you must know, I bought it from Newegg (newegg proper, and NOT a 3rd party seller) it was the right price (around $150, and the key was valid). In every way,including the system builder seal on the outer envelope, it appears to be an official MS Windows 11 pro OEM package. That is all I meant by MS, it was just in the interest of not including all these words.

There is a CLR_CMOS jumper (unplug system and short for a few seconds are the instructions). I have also removed the batteries for a long time and shorted the battery connection, We have been doing this a LONG time, haven't we? yeah, first thing I tried. I scanned the harddrive and examined the boot sector, there is no virus on the HDD. If flashing the bios with the programmer works, I am going to get to the bottom of this by taking apart the list of updates that were applied - I still have the original, un updated, image.

 

[USAFRet]

I took some liberties with the source and called it MS because It was not relevant but if you must know, I bought it from Newegg (newegg proper, and NOT a 3rd party seller) it was the right price (around $150, and the key was valid). In every way,including the system builder seal on the outer envelope, it appears to be an official MS Windows 11 pro OEM package. That is all I meant by MS, it was just in the interest of not including all these words.

It matters.
Quite literally, MS is not selling standalone Win 11 licenses yet.

And buying the "OEM" as a standalone thing is a concept from bygone days. Did not exist with Win 10, and certainly not with Win 11.
Even though various retailers still advertise it as such.
There is only preinstalled (OEM) or Retail.

 

[econcepts]

It matters.
Quite literally, MS is not selling standalone Win 11 licenses yet.

And buying the "OEM" as a standalone thing is a concept from bygone days. Did not exist with Win 10, and certainly not with Win 11.
Even though various retailers still advertise it as such.
There is only preinstalled (OEM) or Retail.

quite literally, they are/do and always have since 1.0, wait, are trying to bait me? Ah, very funny. https://www.newegg.com/microsoft-wi..._11 pro-_-32-350-882-_-Product&quicklink=true

 

[USAFRet]

quite literally, they are/do and always have since 1.0, wait, are trying to bait me? Ah, very funny. https://www.newegg.com/microsoft-windows-11-pro/p/N82E16832350882?Description=windows 11 pro&cm_re=windows_11 pro--32-350-882--Product&quicklink=true

Things changed with Win 10.

Please show us a link to purchase a single "OEM" or "System Builder" of Win 10 or 11 at Microsoft.com.
This was readily available with Win 8.1 and earlier.

 

[econcepts]

being OEM and being "official" MS are two different things.

OEM meaning that it has been altered by whatever 3rd party manufactured distributor has offered it.

and official MS meaning it was created with a legitimate Microsoft creation tool or just from a Microsoft official image download.

but it's already been determined that you have not followed "official" download/install procedures so any fault you have experienced is user created.

Why is this so hard? I am the OEM.

 

[USAFRet]

Why is this so hard? I am the OEM.

You are Michael Dell?

 

[BFG-9000]

Just wanted to say that Gigabyte models with actual dual BIOS chips (not one big chip with two partitions) and no physical switch can be triggered to use the backup BIOS by either holding both power and reset for >10sec, or shorting pins on the main BIOS chip until POST (usually 1 and 6 but check the actual chip's datasheet to be sure. Note that there have been cases where the chips are mislabeled on the board and "pri" is actually "sec").

The backup BIOS chip only flashes the primary chip and the system then boots from the primary with restored (but very old) firmware, in case you are thinking of trying something clever like removing the primary chip entirely--doesn't work, and don't try programming the backup either. Good Luck!

 

[econcepts]

being OEM and being "official" MS are two different things.

OEM meaning that it has been altered by whatever 3rd party manufactured distributor has offered it.

and official MS meaning it was created with a legitimate Microsoft creation tool or just from a Microsoft official image download.

but it's already been determined that you have not followed "official" download/install procedures so any fault you have experienced is user created.

Why is this so hard? I am the OEM.

Just wanted to say that Gigabyte models with actual dual BIOS chips (not one big chip with two partitions) and no physical switch can be triggered to use the backup BIOS by either holding both power and reset for >10sec, or shorting pins on the main BIOS chip until POST (usually 1 and 6 but check the actual chip's datasheet to be sure. Note that there have been cases where the chips are mislabeled on the board and "pri" is actually "sec").

The backup BIOS chip only flashes the primary chip and the system then boots from the primary with restored (but very old) firmware, in case you are thinking of trying something clever like removing the primary chip entirely--doesn't work, and don't try programming the backup either. Good Luck!

The board does indeed have two bios chips - the revision 4.1 has micron chips and the 5.0 has winbond. they are 25 series and I connected an offline programmer to them and compared the bios read out of the main chip to all available firmware for that board (F1-F4). The main bios has compare errors on both boards and the backup bios in each case matched one of the stock firmware images. In the case of the 5.0 it was F3 I dont remember what the 4.1 was. Upon failure to boot after a bios, update, Gigabyte boards are supposed to load the backup bios, arn't they? but ... I tried to reflash the man bios chip using the programmer and it seems there is some kind of damage to it - flashing fails early on at the 1C location which corresponds to the first error found with compare. If I turn off verification and flash it anyway, most memory is updated but not the one with the error. I guess it would't restore if it were damaged. I am using the neoprogrammer software V2.2.0.8 with CH341A programing hardware to download and compare and flash the bios images. I can conclude from these tests that there is probably damage to the main bios chip that happened during the update. That's all I really got, I am not opposed to the idea that I somehow introduced some kind of bad actor, but I don't think so. I am giving up unless someone out there has another GA-78LMT-USB3 Revison 4.1 or 5.0 that they want to try the test on. This board is still available through some sellers in hardware revision 6 but its expensive. I guess I might try desoldering and moving the backup chip to the main position but I wasted to much time on this experiment already.

 

[Cj-tech]

Why is this so hard? I am the OEM.

The board does indeed have two bios chips - the revision 4.1 has micron chips and the 5.0 has winbond. they are 25 series and I connected an offline programmer to them and compared the bios read out of the main chip to all available firmware for that board (F1-F4). The main bios has compare errors on both boards and the backup bios in each case matched one of the stock firmware images. In the case of the 5.0 it was F3 I dont remember what the 4.1 was. Upon failure to boot after a bios, update, Gigabyte boards are supposed to load the backup bios, arn't they? but ... I tried to reflash the man bios chip using the programmer and it seems there is some kind of damage to it - flashing fails early on at the 1C location which corresponds to the first error found with compare. If I turn off verification and flash it anyway, most memory is updated but not the one with the error. I guess it would't restore if it were damaged. I am using the neoprogrammer software V2.2.0.8 with CH341A programing hardware to download and compare and flash the bios images. I can conclude from these tests that there is probably damage to the main bios chip that happened during the update. That's all I really got, I am not opposed to the idea that I somehow introduced some kind of bad actor, but I don't think so. I am giving up unless someone out there has another GA-78LMT-USB3 Revison 4.1 or 5.0 that they want to try the test on. This board is still available through some sellers in hardware revision 6 but its expensive. I guess I might try desoldering and moving the backup chip to the main position but I wasted to much time on this experiment already.

How are you the OEM? Are you writing that wrong?

 

[joeldf]

How are you the OEM? Are you writing that wrong?

I think he only means that he's the one building the systems from parts purchased from someplace like NewEgg.

 

[Roland Of Gilead]

How are you the OEM? Are you writing that wrong?

He's not an OEM. He maybe a Value Added Reseller (VAR), but not OEM.

 

[kerberos_20]

windows can interfere with uefi enviroment...

but a question...how did you manage to run your win11? it doesnt supports legacy bios in first place and your mainboard isnt uefi compliant, it does have hybrid EFI..which is just to support drives 3TB+, and its not even 64bit uefi

your mainboard has dual bios, im not sure if you have physical switch to switch into backup, but if there is none, then you can short your main bios so it can switch into backup bios (see youtube), other than that, dont use software not ment for your hardware

 

[kerberos_20]

He's not an OEM. He maybe a Value Added Reseller (VAR), but not OEM.

this would be called OEM system builder licence, on win 10 it is still somewhat allowed to some extent, since win 11 is technically win 10 with just a different skin, terms for system builder/oem might be same...not sure, im too lazy to read that long text xD
basicly, license is valid as long you bought it alongside with a new PC, both new PC (or atleast mainboard) + win OEM must be on same receipt, if you buy standalone licence from resellers, then its 100% illegal and counts as pirated software (if oneday authorities come to your house for a sweep, then youre screwed, otherwise nobody will know)
so its purpose is for people who build PC, preinstall windows on it and sell it to somebody
if you build your own pc, then you need retail licence if oem licence wasnt bough with your new pc
sounds simple right?

 

[johnbl]

Pretty sure the only BIOS updates you might get through Windows update are from OEM hardware makers,

Lenovo bios updates were being pushed over it last year
Asus say you can but it might just be laptops they make - https://www.asus.com/support/FAQ/1035492/
Dell still use their updater I think.

So unless your desktop PC was made by Dell or HP or another big OEM then its unlikely the BIOS was updated via windows update. Most of the big Motherboard makers have their own tools to let you install BIOS, in a number of ways. Be it inside windows or inside the BIOS.

I have also seen a dell system that got firmware updates from windows updates.
I would not expect Microsoft to toast a bios but I could see a OEM handing a bios update to Microsoft and windows update pushing it out and toasting a machine.
It would not even be a test case that would be considered if the OEM was told that windows 11 would never ever be installed on a old machine that does not meet the new requirements. I would be pulling the drive and looking at the logs to see what updates were attempted before the failure. The files will still be on the drive of the dead machine even if the BIOS was messed up to the point it will not boot.

 

[johnbl]

I have also seen a dell system that got firmware updates from windows updates.
I would not expect Microsoft to toast a bios but I could see a OEM handing a bios update to Microsoft and windows update pushing it out and toasting a machine.
It would not even be a test case that would be considered if the OEM was told that windows 11 would never ever be installed on a old machine that does not meet the new requirements. I would be pulling the drive and looking at the logs to see what updates were attempted before the failure. The files will still be on the drive of the dead machine even if the BIOS was messed up to the point it will not boot.

I still remember microsoft messing up a bunch of surface machines by pushing out bios updates and not checking to see if the machine was rebooted between updates. two updates queued up and installed ended up toasting the machine.

and do not even start to look at the specification changes that have occurred for bios internal tables over the years.

I see currently selling machines that have memory dump that get all these warnings in the debugger indicating that the BIOS is not conforming to required spec changes even though the bios is current. Who knows what happens when bios updates think they don't have to check version information on some table in the bios anymore because the developer knew the bios table must be at least some minimum version number since it is required for windows 11 to even install.

at this point I would pull the drive of a failed system, look at it under a working system, then run cmd.exe as an admin then run
cd c:\windows\panther
dir /s *.log
and take a look of any log that ran just before the failure.

files like
C;\windows\panther\unattendedgc\setupact.log

and see what windows thinks it did before the failure

you could even look in the hidden temp directories if they were not cleaned up.

 

[joeldf]

this would be called OEM system builder licence, on win 10 it is still somewhat allowed to some extent, since win 11 is technically win 10 with just a different skin, terms for system builder/oem might be same...not sure, im too lazy to read that long text xD
basicly, license is valid as long you bought it alongside with a new PC, both new PC (or atleast mainboard) + win OEM must be on same receipt, if you buy standalone licence from resellers, then its 100% illegal and counts as pirated software (if oneday authorities come to your house for a sweep, then youre screwed, otherwise nobody will know)
so its purpose is for people who build PC, preinstall windows on it and sell it to somebody
if you build your own pc, then you need retail licence if oem licence wasnt bough with your new pc
sounds simple right?

So, even a major tech site like PC World is peddling pirated software? Seems that MS would be all over them if that were the case. That's where I bought my Win10 Pro license. I got it for my machine that I built new last year. The parts are from NewEgg, Amazon and Best Buy, with the OS coming from PC World. I just updated it to Win 11 last week.

The OS was listed as OEM, but when I check with the command "slmgr -dli", the dialog box that pops up says it's the Retail version.

I have also seen a dell system that got firmware updates from windows updates.
I would not expect Microsoft to toast a bios but I could see a OEM handing a bios update to Microsoft and windows update pushing it out and toasting a machine.
It would not even be a test case that would be considered if the OEM was told that windows 11 would never ever be installed on a old machine that does not meet the new requirements. I would be pulling the drive and looking at the logs to see what updates were attempted before the failure. The files will still be on the drive of the dead machine even if the BIOS was messed up to the point it will not boot.

I've bought Dells for my family since around 2004. Various laptops, a couple of all-in-ones and a couple of desktops. I've also worked at firms that used Dell desktop workstations. I've never seen a Windows Update deliver a BIOS update for any Dell. Dell has their own support software for such things, and I have seen BIOS updates delivered that way. My youngest son's Inspiron we just bought last December has received at least 2 BIOS updates that way since getting it.

 

[johnbl]

So, even a major tech site like PC World is peddling pirated software? Seems that MS would be all over them if that were the case. That's where I bought my Win10 Pro license. I got it for my machine that I built new last year. The parts are from NewEgg, Amazon and Best Buy, with the OS coming from PC World. I just updated it to Win 11 last week.

The OS was listed as OEM, but when I check with the command "slmgr -dli", the dialog box that pops up says it's the Retail version.



I've bought Dells for my family since around 2004. Various laptops, a couple of all-in-ones and a couple of desktops. I've also worked at firms that used Dell desktop workstations. I've never seen a Windows Update deliver a BIOS update for any Dell. Dell has their own support software for such things, and I have seen BIOS updates delivered that way. My youngest son's Inspiron we just bought last December has received at least 2 BIOS updates that way since getting it.

-microsoft docs on updating firmware via windows update:
https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/wi...updating-device-firmware-using-windows-update

-people complaining about the firmware updates pushed out by windows update:
https://www.dell.com/community/Windows-10/Dell-Updating-Bios-Without-Warning/td-p/8016517

I have seen it happen on this dell machine I am currently typing on:
System Manufacturer: Dell Inc.
System Model: Inspiron 13-7359

I was surprised since I disabled all of the dell tools. I did not expect a windows update to be updating the firmware.

 

[Rogue Leader]

Ok we have established that Windows update CAN do BIOS updates on some OEM systems.

This guy is using Gigabyte motherboards. this is NOT the problem. Lets get this back on track. If @econcepts doesn't have any more updates for us, perhaps its time to close the thread and move on.

 

[econcepts]

I have confirmed that both motherboards have damaged main bios chips that can no longer be flashed. The backup bios chips are working properly and contain valid images. Since Gigabyte boards only boot from the main bios, the boards are hosed. The fact that the same test produced the same result on two different (previously thoroughly tested fine) systems exactly during the windows update points to the update (or the reboot, if I accidentally introduced some kind of bad software} I do not plan on investigating any further because I have already spent too much time on this experiment and its not fun anymore. (I also lost two digital activations of windows X) I would just like to say thank you to those of you that seem to still possess the hobbyist spirit that started Tom's hardware and suggest that the rest of you read the "Microsoft OEM System builder license" (which is still valid for windows 11 BTW) .