News Windows 11 to Ship Without TPM Requirement for 'Special Purpose' Systems

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Pc6777 said:
I thought you could use older cpus if your mobo had tmp
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Nope. Micro$oft has effectively cut off every PC that uses Ryzen 1st gen, Kaby Lake or older CPUs, based on their statement.

My Skylake and Haswell builds, both, have the TMP header on the MoBo, but since one PC has i5-6600K and another has i5-4590 as a CPU, i'd be left out of the loop. Unless, i hand out considerable amount of money to buy 2x new CPUs and 2x new MoBos. Oh, one set of new DDR4 RAM as well + the ordeal of swapping.
 
USAFRet said:
How is this forcing new computer purchases?

How many people do YOU know that are going to buy a new PC, strictly because it can run Win 11, when they already have an existing system that runs Win 10 just fine.

I'm not going to. Are you?
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While still far-fetched, you have entire businesses (small and mdium, mainly) which will need to, most likely, upgrade in order to be compliant with some regulations before 2025. Imagine the Govt systems.

This is not a trivial requirement to fulfill, for sure. And while I don't necessarily disagree with you, mortar and brick stores will just upsell Win11 systems when people calls about their boxes not being elegible.

Regards.
 
USAFRet said:
How is this forcing new computer purchases?

How many people do YOU know that are going to buy a new PC, strictly because it can run Win 11, when they already have an existing system that runs Win 10 just fine.

I'm not going to. Are you?
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not now but after 5 years you will :)

i don't know why 4th gen i7 cpu is outside of the list when it is performing well...
 
I don't get why M$ would put the "no Ryzen 1st gen or Intel 7th gen or older" CPU requirement for their Win 11. Since if we were to look other Win sys reqs, it has never to do with CPU generation, instead with CPU speed;

Win 95 - 20 Mhz or more
Win 98 - 66 Mhz or more
WinXP - 233 Mhz or more
Win Vista - 800 Mhz or more
Win 7, 8 and 10 - 1 Ghz or more

So, what's changed? If Win 11 is so power hungry, requirement could be 1.5 Ghz or more; or 2 Ghz or more. Not based on CPU gen.

Here, i don't get, how a i7-7700K would be incapable of running Win 11, while i3-8100 is more than capable of doing it. Or when to go to the extreme, then i7-7820X can't run Win 11 but Celeron G4900 can. It doesn't make sense.

All that CPU generation requirement does, is generating tons of e-waste since when Win 10 support ends in 2025, every PC with a CPU that has Ryzen 1st gen, Intel 7th gen or older CPU, will effectively be obsolete, despite they being well enough capable of functioning and working with Win 11.
 
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Aeacus said:
I don't get why M$ would put the "no Ryzen 1st gen or Intel 7th gen or older" CPU requirement for their Win 11. Since if we were to look other Win sys reqs, it has never to do with CPU generation, instead with CPU speed;

Win 95 - 20 Mhz or more
Win 98 - 66 Mhz or more
WinXP - 233 Mhz or more
Win Vista - 800 Mhz or more
Win 7, 8 and 10 - 1 Ghz or more

So, what's changed? If Win 11 is so power hungry, requirement could be 1.5 Ghz or more; or 2 Ghz or more. Not based on CPU gen.

Here, i don't get, how a i7-7700K would be incapable of running Win 11, while i3-8100 is more than capable of doing it. Or when to go to the extreme, then i7-7820X can't run Win 11 but Celeron G4900 can. It doesn't make sense.

All that CPU generation requirement does, is generating tons of e-waste since when Win 10 support ends in 2025, every PC with a CPU that has Ryzen 1st gen, Intel 7th gen or older CPU, will effectively be obsolete, despite they being well enough capable of functioning and working with Win 11.
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It's an invisible wall, hopefully there will be a modded version of 11 I can at least install as a vm on my skylake systems, or maybe some workaround to trick it, I hate to say it, but Im betting on the "hackers" to save the day and fix Microsofts abomination. It's not about speed, it's about their control, I have a feeling that tmp chips aent just for "security", drm will most likely use these chips and Microsoft will be able to use them to have control and information about people's PC's.
 
USAFRet said:
Why?
What does 11 promise that 10 does not already give?

Win 10 will be supported for several years.
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Future stuff will require 11, I won't switch unless there's a game or program that needs 11 so I will stay in 10 for a long time, but when I do use 11 it would be nice to also put it on my older PC's, it's a db invisible wall, Microsoft is making more restrictions and making stuff more proprietary, it's a very bad thing for the diy space as a whole, and you need windows to run a lot of stuff so I can't just jump ship and go to Linux as much as I may want to. they should make this tmp stuff and a newer cpu for extra 'security" optional not required.
 
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Pc6777 said:
Future stuff will require 11, I won't switch unless there's a game or program that needs 11 so I will stay in 10 for a long time, but when I do use 11 it would be nice to also put it on my older PC's, it's a db invisible wall, Microsoft is making more restrictions and making stuff more proprietary, it's a very bad thing for the diy space as a whole, and you need windows to run a lot of stuff so I can't just jump ship and go to Linux as much as I may want to. they should make this tmp stuff and a newer cpu for extra 'security" optional not required.
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how about auto HDR for games? or direct storage?
 
USAFRet said:
Win 10 will be supported for several years.
Click to expand...

Yes, that is true. However, all Wins before Win 10, where "finished" products, which saw security updates/ other fixes during their about 10 year lifespan. When Win 10 was released, M$ promoted it as a "live service" and "it will be last Win". Well, as we can see, it is not a live service since it's lifespan will be the same, about 10 years, as previous Wins have had it. It's actually few months shorter than Win 7 lifespan was.

GizmoMKD said:
HDR for games
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That is optional. If your monitor doesn't support HDR, you can't use it. But that doesn't mean that you flat-out can't play any of those games that do support HDR. You still can game, but without HDR.

GizmoMKD said:
direct storage
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That too is optional and works only if your games are installed on NVMe drive. If you don't have NVMe drive or when your games aren't installed there, you can still game just fine.


However, TMP and newer than Ryzen 1st gen or Intel 7th gen aren't optional choices. Those are mandatory and you can't use Win 11 without neither of the two.
 
USAFRet said:
How is this forcing new computer purchases?

How many people do YOU know that are going to buy a new PC, strictly because it can run Win 11, when they already have an existing system that runs Win 10 just fine.

I'm not going to. Are you?
Click to expand...
your GT-R Pro will run it.. lol but I am going to wait until it's officially released and non beta
 
aymen11512 said:
it was already ...all you have to do is download windows 11 iso and windows 10 iso and swap install.esd on win10 with install.wim or something like that from win11 iso and use the win 10 iso to install windows 11 in not time they didnt even have to edit anything
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" ... with install.wim or something like that from win 11 iso ... "

Nothing like precise workaround instructions. I'm surprised there wasn't some stern warning issued for providing such detailed instructions promoting illegally thwarting Microsoft, or something like that.
 
USAFRet said:

Info - Why win 11 needs Trusted Platform Module

Security by design: Built-in and turned on Security by design has long been a priority at Microsoft. What other companies invest more than $1 billion a year on security and employ more than 3,500 dedicated security professionals? We’ve made significant strides in that journey to create...
forums.tomshardware.com forums.tomshardware.com

I think they are overreaching, but this, so far, is their justification.
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once they see the slow adoption rate they will lower the TPM requirement themselves.
 
plausible_deniability said:
" ... with install.wim or something like that from win 11 iso ... "

Nothing like precise workaround instructions. I'm surprised there wasn't some stern warning issued for providing such detailed instructions promoting illegally thwarting Microsoft, or something like that.
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i said something like that because i couldnt remember the extension of the install file in windows 11 iso and wym illegal its not my fault microsoft leaked it
 
aymen11512 said:
i said something like that because i couldnt remember the extension of the install file in windows 11 iso and wym illegal its not my fault microsoft leaked it
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When giving instructions at this level, either give the whole thing, clear and concise, or not at all.

In any case, the actual Preview has been released from MS.

Lastly...if one needs to modify the install files to that level...Win 11 is not for your PC and vice versa.
 
jaxx199 said:
once they see the slow adoption rate they will lower the TPM requirement themselves.
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Or when a "fixed" version is released(not by Microsoft) that works on older cpus, or worst case a modified version that allows you to run in a vm with "outdated" hardware. My 6700k is way more powerful that many recent laptop cpus and lower end desktop cpus, but I guess it's not "secure enough" for Microsofts proprietary platform. I do plan on upgrading before 2025, but I'm not getting rid of my old hardware and will still use it.
 
Pc6777 said:
Or when a "fixed" version is released(not by Microsoft) that works on older cpus, or worst case a modified version that allows you to run in a vm with "outdated" hardware. My 6700k is way more powerful that many recent laptop cpus and lower end desktop cpus, but I guess it's not "secure enough" for Microsofts proprietary platform. I do plan on upgrading before 2025, but I'm not getting rid of my old hardware and will still use it.
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More to your point, which is what grinds my gears the most: Microsoft is throwing everyone under the bus because "security". Yeah, right...

I just want Microsoft to acknowledge there's people out there that can, in fact, think for themselves. Or at least, just be honest about it: "we want to control everything you do with maximum efficacy".

Regards.
 
Yuka said:
More to your point, which is what grinds my gears the most: Microsoft is throwing everyone under the bus because "security". Yeah, right...

I just want Microsoft to acknowledge there's people out there that can, in fact, think for themselves. Or at least, just be honest about it: "we want to control everything you do with maximum efficacy".

Regards.
Click to expand...
MS did that before.
Pre Win 10, updates, including security updates, were trivially easy to turn off/disable/ignore.
Many many people did that. Some, on the recommendations of "my neighbors nephew Jimmy, who is good with computers".
Result? Botnets, millions of infected systems.
MS was lambasted for this.

Enter Win 10.
"You WILL get updates, whether you like it or not."
Again, MS is lambasted for this.

Win 11 looks like just a continuation/elevation of "We know better".

If lessened security is enabled for you and I who actually DO know better, it is also enabled for Jimmy, who is following along the utube and reddit idiots. Who do NOT know better.

There is no correct solution.
 
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USAFRet said:
MS did that before.
Pre Win 10, updates, including security updates, were trivially easy to turn off/disable/ignore.
Many many people did that. Some, on the recommendations of "my neighbors nephew Jimmy, who is good with computers".
Result? Botnets, millions of infected systems.
MS was lambasted for this.

Enter Win 10.
"You WILL get updates, whether you like it or not."
Again, MS is lambasted for this.

Win 11 looks like just a continuation/elevation of "We know better".

If lessened security is enabled for you and I who actually DO know better, it is also enabled for Jimmy, who is following along the utube and reddit idiots. Who do NOT know better.

There is no correct solution.
Click to expand...
I hope they don't lock it down too hard, I use dual boot and have defender perm disabled on my offline windows install that will never touch the internet, I hope there's still ways to do this in 11 and they don't make it some chromos Mac os type thing were you have zero control, I understand they don't want people to accidentally destroy everything beacuase they don't know what's going on, but they should allow people to do what they want without putting it in everyone's face and making it "too easy", taking all control and compatibility away in the name of "security" is a bit absurd, I bet if they really wanted they could appeal to everyone and have some hidden settings for power users, and I bet if they really wanted they could make a secure os without requiring new cpus, I guess they are either lazy or just control freaks, locking down windows destroys the point of windows, it's supposed to be more open and less locked down than Mac and chrome os, that's the reason people use it, they can install it on pretty much any hardware and install whatever they want, Microsofts keeps pushing their crappy drm ridden store on everyone and all this useless crap that's preinstalled and locking down their os even more, I guess it's beacuase they know they can because there are an insane amount of programs that require windows to function.
 
USAFRet said:
== Jimmy, the neighbors idiot teenage nephew.

You want "open"..Linux.
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Don't confuse things. Just because there's idiots out there, it means everyone is an idiot. That's a bit inconsequential. This would mean you're also an idiot, no?

What was the saying? "Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety"?

The root problem here is knowledge and that problem is solved with education. But that's a bigger problem no one really wants to attack head on. Plus, the obvious elephant in the room is locking down systems and advertising.

Regards.
 
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