News Windows 12 release is pushed back at least another year as Microsoft announces Windows 11 version 25H2

[spongiemaster]

I keep getting reminded but have no desire to do it.

From a feature standpoint, there is no real reason to upgrade to 11. Once support ends for 10 in October, then everyone absolutely should upgrade.

 

[usertests]

Whatever the version, in the end it is still, and always has been disgusting ms-DOS with NT patches on top.

It literally hasn't been that since Windows XP in 2001.

 

[lordmogul]

The cadence and naming since Windows 10 is confusing to people... It's hard to explain to users that they are actually two very different versions of Windows 10 in wide distribution...

It would have been so much easier for users had Microsoft just had Windows 10, Windows 10.1, Windows 10.5, Windows 11, Windows 11.1, Windows 11.5... Windows 12.... See a pattern? Folks understand that these are very different... and you don' t rolll Windows 10.5 stuff into Windows 10.1... you just encourage the users to buy an upgrade.

They simply go with the USB 3 naming scheme, where USB 3.2 Gen 1x1 is also USB 3.1 Gen 1 and USB 3.0. Not to be confused with USB 3.2 Gen 2x1 which is also USB 3.1 Gen 2, orUSB 3.2 Gen 1x2 or USB 3.2 Gen 2x2 which are it's own thing.
Or Direct3D, where we had Shader Model 2 in Direct3D 9
SM 3 in D3D9.0c
SM 4 in D3D10
SM 4.1 in D3D10.1
SM 5 in D3D11
SM 5.1 in D3D11.1
Notice a pattern?
Well, SM 5.2, 5.3, 5.4, 5.5. 5,6 are all D3D 12
And D3D12 can also support SM3, but that is called D3D12 FL9_3 and should not be confused with D3D11 FL9_3 or D3D 9.0c or D3D9ex
Because logical version numbers make too much sense.

And obviously the fact that Windows 95, 98 and Me are all Windows 4

 

[coromonadalix]

you forgot vista an 8 there bud

8.1 too loll "sucked more" with the driver signature enforcement

 

[mikeebb]

So it's ho-hum, essentially. As with Win10 (at least Mobile), it'll be mainly a release that's numbered to reset the updates clock. With Mobile (yes, I had a WinPhone that went from 8 to 10 then updates until the end) , the first 2 "annuals" were the original and the patches needed to make it actually sort of work. Then one (1607 iirc?) that caused all sorts of pain elsewhere but actually made the WinPhone work as well in 10 as it did in 8 (which was very well indeed). About a year and 1/2 later, there was the first of the fall updates, which changed a bunch of stuff and required registry hacking to install. Then the last few which were basically annual renumbering of that one.

Most of the recent Win10 fall updates (and even the last few spring updates before they dropped those) have, again, been essentially a renumbering to reset the support clock. Yes, a couple went deep enough to cause some people problems, but for the most part they're just extending a base system that's been in place for a while now. I guess since Win11 is winding down in favor of Win12 in the next year or 2, we can expect the same thing.

As for paying for updates (including point versions and service packs), Windows has never required that within the official support period for consumer versions of the OS. UpGRADES to a new version used to, in fact, require paying for a new copy of the OS (which I did, with discounts, between 3.1 and 98, then 98SE to XP, then XP to 7). The free upgrade from 7 or 8 to 10 was a new practice for them, but free upgrades seem to continue with 10 to 11 (11 in fact still reports in some cases as a build of Windows 10), and (with appropriate hardware) will probably also happen from 11 to 12.

The hardware fattening will have to be addressed at some point though; people can't (well, shouldn't) be required to e-waste perfectly good systems to maintain OS support. Let's just say that XP ran great in about 1/2 GB or RAM. Minimum for 7 was 1 to do any more than just boot the OS. Bare minimum jumped to 2GB for 32-bit or 4GB for 64-bit in 10, then 4 bare minimum and 8 minimum for comfort in 11. It'll probably double again in 12. When 11 definitely and 12 probably run fine in much older systems than are officially supported, one has to wonder how much the upgrade is intended to force hardware replacement rather than improving basic function.

 

[purposelycryptic]

The vast majority of people do not "buy" an upgrade.

Either their current Windows version upgrades to the next, for free. Has been this way for a decade, with Win 10.
Or, they just use whatever comes with their new PC.

God, I wish we could go back to the days when we could just pay for Windows, instead of getting what amounts to an ad-supported OS.

All I want is a damned OS; no telemetry, no stupid ads for their other products, no AI BS, no forced updates, no Windows Store, no Microsoft account, no damned Edge, none of that crap. I give them money, they give me my OS, and they put up updates that I get to install if/when I choose to - and that is the extent of their involvement with my damned machine.

You wouldn't think this would be too much to ask for, as a customer. It's not like there is any actual demand for that crap. Yet somehow, they are raking in more money than ever, despite making something no one even wants.

If they didn't have an effective monopoly on the PC OS market, they never would have tried this BS; but Linux, by virtue of its fundamental nature, among other things, will never be a direct competitor, and MacOS is just the same basic BS, just shinier, dumbed-down and less functional/compatible (or really, the other way around - Windows is becoming more and more Mac-like with every iteration).

This really is the worst universe, isn't it?

 

[TerryLaze]

If they didn't have an effective monopoly on the PC OS market, they never would have tried this BS;

If they were the underdog out of 10 OSes they would do it even more aggressively...
They are not selling their OS to the 10 people out there that are tech savvy and want to do everything as simple as possible, they are selling it to the thousands of people that want to give MS even more money for the convenience of not having to learn anything, that's the same reason apple does so well.

 

[usertests]

Let's just say that XP ran great in about 1/2 GB or RAM. Minimum for 7 was 1 to do any more than just boot the OS. Bare minimum jumped to 2GB for 32-bit or 4GB for 64-bit in 10, then 4 bare minimum and 8 minimum for comfort in 11. It'll probably double again in 12. When 11 definitely and 12 probably run fine in much older systems than are officially supported, one has to wonder how much the upgrade is intended to force hardware replacement rather than improving basic function.

I don't feel that it's a big deal. 16x in over 25 years? And it was pretty easy to get to 8 GB DDR3 15 years ago. Granted, DRAM density and cost improvements have slowed dramatically since around 2010.

The biggest loser are laptops with soldered, non-replaceable memory. 4 GB systems are mostly cleared out but can still be found at Walmart. I have seen 8 GB laptops/2-in-1s with shocking specs, don't remember what it was recently but think: Ryzen 5 8645HS limited to 8 GB forever.

I'm going to guess that Windows 12 does not require significantly more RAM to run than W11, coping with 4-8 GB. It's the local LLM/genAI features that may require more, and it's why Microsoft is enforcing a 16 GB minimum to market "AI PCs":
https://www.tomshardware.com/software/windows/microsofts-baseline-ram-for-ai-pcs-set-at-16gb

If you don't use such features, you may be in the clear.

 

[das_stig]

When Linux plays DCS with the same level of stability, then I might switch over.

 

[LordVile]

8.1 too loll "sucked more" with the driver signature enforcement

Wasn’t really counting 8.1 considering it was just the not touch version they eventually released

 

[Loadedaxe]

Microsoft hasn’t officially announced W12, and if the company’s recent moves are any indication, we won’t see it for quite a while. They’ve shifted focus toward incremental evolution with updates like 24H2 and the upcoming 25H2, which continues to patch, polish, and prolong W11 rather than usher in something truly new.

Early whispers about W12 were fueled by optimistic vendors like Intel and Qualcomm, who teased a major OS refresh. But that fanfare quietly morphed into the Copilot+ PC initiative, a branding exercise more than a revolution.

Let’s be real......Microsoft is playing the long game. With the W10 to 11 transition still underway across enterprise and consumer sectors, the next major OS probably won’t surface until 2028 or beyond. And when it does...... Don’t be surprised if it demands Intel 12th Gen or AM5-based hardware, turning anything older into digital fossils.

Linux platform has a golden window. If the desktop experience keeps maturing, it might finally have a shot at capturing real market share. It’s an underdog moment waiting to be seized.

 

[TerryLaze]

Linux platform has a golden window. If the desktop experience keeps maturing, it might finally have a shot at capturing real market share. It’s an underdog moment waiting to be seized.

A golden window to become an old fashioned OS that only works on old fashioned hardware...
If linux wants to keep up and doesn't want to become the "oh I have no other choice" OS they will have to adopt to the new needs of the industry, just like windows does.

 

[jp7189]

The cadence and naming since Windows 10 is confusing to people... It's hard to explain to users that they are actually two very different versions of Windows 10 in wide distribution...

It would have been so much easier for users had Microsoft just had Windows 10, Windows 10.1, Windows 10.5, Windows 11, Windows 11.1, Windows 11.5... Windows 12.... See a pattern? Folks understand that these are very different... and you don' t rolll Windows 10.5 stuff into Windows 10.1... you just encourage the users to buy an upgrade.

They've confused people... there is incompatability where people least expect it (look at the way SQL drivers were completely handled differently between early Windows 10 and later Windows 10).. They've also left money on the table, becuase frankly, folks have generally been okay with upgrading thier windows to a minor version every other year and a major version every 4 for a modest sum...

Maybe im not understanding your comment because the naming is pretty clear; the name is based on release date. 25H2 is standard business parlance for the second half of the year 2025. They used to be more specific e.g. 1607 was released 2016, July. If you really prefer version numbers, they are there as well; 24H2 is 10.0.26100.

 

[vanadiel007]

Soon AI will create a replacement OS for Windows, and Microsoft can finally retire Windows and the Windows branding.

 

[TerryLaze]

>Linux platform has a golden window. If the desktop experience keeps maturing, it might finally have a shot at capturing real market share.

The days of "which OS can win the desktop" are over and done, because desktop's heydays are over. It's now just one of multiple form factors available for computing devices.

Well, that was his point I think, at least partially, linux is used for the steamdeck and similar devices it doesn't have to be desktop, also windows is being used on some similar devices, also MS has made a special xbox windows version for such a device, windows runs on snapdragon arm CPUs, arm laptops are being made.

The OS wars are very much still on and at the moment we have all oses trying to move over to other platforms to claim more terittory.

 

[SonoraTechnical]

Maybe im not understanding your comment because the naming is pretty clear; the name is based on release date. 25H2 is standard business parlance for the second half of the year 2025. They used to be more specific e.g. 1607 was released 2016, July. If you really prefer version numbers, they are there as well; 24H2 is 10.0.26100.

Perhaps a little easier now... I guess I've been burned enough by the stark differences in early Win 10 and later Win 10...

 

[ekio]

Windows NT is not based on MSDOS, and every version you listed is based on NT. Windows stopped being based on MSDOS when Windows Me died killing off the 9x line.

Open the cmd.exe tool that is heavily used everyday, it’s basically msdos…

 

[JamesJones44]

Apple has 10% of the market. Lacking unless you do A/V work. Maybe I'll breakout an old Amiga...

Aisa is the big laggard in that stat (~5.5%). If you look at North America and Europe the usage is higher, still not the majority, but much larger than a super small minority. Software development is a big user of macOS.

~25%
https://gs.statcounter.com/os-market-share/desktop/north-america/2024

~17%
https://gs.statcounter.com/os-market-share/desktop/europe/2024

 

[TerryLaze]

Open the cmd.exe tool that is heavily used everyday, it’s basically msdos…

Just because it looks alike doesn't make it be alike...
Linux also has a terminal, any OS has, even android, and all of them look the same it's just a way to input commands.

 

[heffeque]

Will Win11 25H2 fix how sluggish the GUI is compared to Win10? (Win 11 is sluggish even on new high-end devices, which is completely bonkers).

 

[ekio]

Just because it looks alike doesn't make it be alike...
Linux also has a terminal, any OS has, even android, and all of them look the same it's just a way to input commands.

You are the confused one, man

I said cmd.exe

Powershell is a more modern terminal not based on msDOS, the Linux shell is amazing and not msDOS at all of course.

cmd.exe IS msDOS…..

 

[TerryLaze]

You are the confused one, man

I said cmd.exe

cmd.exe IS msDOS…..

So how does that make ME the confused one?!
cmd.exe is the command.com from dos, it's not dos itself.

 

[lemongrassgarlic]

God, I wish we could go back to the days when we could just pay for Windows, instead of getting what amounts to an ad-supported OS.

All I want is a damned OS; no telemetry, no stupid ads for their other products, no AI BS, no forced updates, no Windows Store, no Microsoft account, no damned Edge, none of that crap. I give them money, they give me my OS, and they put up updates that I get to install if/when I choose to - and that is the extent of their involvement with my damned machine.

You wouldn't think this would be too much to ask for, as a customer. It's not like there is any actual demand for that crap. Yet somehow, they are raking in more money than ever, despite making something no one even wants.

If they didn't have an effective monopoly on the PC OS market, they never would have tried this BS; but Linux, by virtue of its fundamental nature, among other things, will never be a direct competitor, and MacOS is just the same basic BS, just shinier, dumbed-down and less functional/compatible (or really, the other way around - Windows is becoming more and more Mac-like with every iteration).

This really is the worst universe, isn't it?

Not defending W11 but :
I don't have any ads , I deleted windows store , I blocked updates, edge is not that bad , I don't have AI/copilot.
Telemetry , that is to deep to disable.

 

[mikeebb]

I don't feel that it's a big deal. 16x in over 25 years? And it was pretty easy to get to 8 GB DDR3 15 years ago. Granted, DRAM density and cost improvements have slowed dramatically since around 2010.

The biggest loser are laptops with soldered, non-replaceable memory. 4 GB systems are mostly cleared out but can still be found at Walmart. I have seen 8 GB laptops/2-in-1s with shocking specs, don't remember what it was recently but think: Ryzen 5 8645HS limited to 8 GB forever.

I'm going to guess that Windows 12 does not require significantly more RAM to run than W11, coping with 4-8 GB. It's the local LLM/genAI features that may require more, and it's why Microsoft is enforcing a 16 GB minimum to market "AI PCs":
https://www.tomshardware.com/software/windows/microsofts-baseline-ram-for-ai-pcs-set-at-16gb

If you don't use such features, you may be in the clear.

Yeah, I have one of those laptops. Lenovo, i7 11th gen, 8GB soldered-in, nonupgradeable RAM, nice NVME 512GB SSD. There was conflicting advice at the time about RAM upgradeability (it's not), but I got a very nice price on the system and it meets the need I got it for (the flippy screen makes it a giant tablet, replacing an old Win10 RCA tablet-with-keyboard that was dying). Have a desktop for (slightly) more demanding work with 16GB RAM and a 3060 GPU.

Edit: key point - the old RCA (32-bit W10, 2GB), an even older but usable until recently Asus laptop (64-bit W10, 4GB), and the Lenovo (W11, 8GB) are identical in one respect. Booted and ready to use (settled down after all the startup housekeeping), all 3 have about 40% of RAM available for actual work. Yes, there's virtual memory too; the tablet got into it with even one app running; the Asus needed a couple of apps or larger data; and the Lenovo is basically like the Asus with just a little more headroom. So I'd call all 3 the minimum effective RAM (not desirable, just effective) for their OS's.