Windows 7 OEM TOS and DIY

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zolton33

zolton33

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I think it would be a good idea to let people know that the tos for windows 7 oem is very much against do it yourself builds. By their new standard if you install an oem version of windows you can not upgrade your motherboard and processor and use your windows 7.

http://www.microsoft.com/OEM/en/licensing/sblicensing/pages/licensing_faq.aspx

And it states Q. Can a PC with an OEM Windows operating system have its motherboard upgraded and keep the same license? What if it was replaced because it was defective?
A. Generally, an end user can upgrade or replace all of the hardware components on a computer—except the motherboard—and still retain the license for the original Microsoft OEM operating system software. If the motherboard is upgraded or replaced for reasons other than a defect, then a new computer has been created. Microsoft OEM operating system software cannot be transferred to the new computer, and the license of new operating system software is required. If the motherboard is replaced because it is defective, you do not need to acquire a new operating system license for the PC as long as the replacement motherboard is the same make/model or the same manufacturer's replacement/equivalent, as defined by the manufacturer's warranty.

The reason for this licensing rule primarily relates to the End User Software License Terms and the support of the software covered by that End User Software License Terms. The End User Software License Terms is a set of usage rights granted to the end user by the PC manufacturer and relates only to rights for that software as installed on that particular PC. The system builder is required to support the software on the original PC. Understanding that end users, over time, upgrade their PCs with different components, Microsoft needed to have one base component "left standing" that would still define the original PC. Since the motherboard contains the CPU and is the "heart and soul" of the PC, when the motherboard is replaced (for reasons other than defect) a new PC is essentially created. The original system builder did not manufacture this new PC, and therefore cannot be expected to support it.

As such you would need a full version of windows 7 to be able to upgrade major components. So it does no good to reccomend windows 7 oem to do it yourself pc builders. Its something every one should know before doing a self build. OEM is cheaper but if you upgrade you need tio buy a new oem version for each major upgrade and you would be ahead to buy the full version now as its cheaper if you have to replace defective parts or to upgrade.

http://www.microsoft.com/OEM/en/licensing/sblicensing/Pages/licensing_for_hobbyists.aspx

They also call us hobbyists. >_<
 
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http://www.zdnet.com/blog/bott/oem-licensing-confusion-starts-at-microsoftcom/535

Another good read they had classified DIY as a system builder as well

oem_licensing_1.jpg



http://www.edbott.com/weblog/2005/08/a-welcome-change-in-microsoft-licensing-terms/


And changed their position http://www.winsupersite.com/article/win7/no-oem-for-you-windows-7-oem-packaging-is-not-for-individuals

They seemed to flip flop around all over the place before decided to stick it to to the DIY system builder. And the really sad part is that not every one that is a DIY builder knows that they are not legally allowed to upgrade their system and reinstall windows. :pfff:
 
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http://www.edbott.com/weblog/2005/02/everything-you-always-wanted-to-know-about-windows-product-activation/

So some people have had trouble activating windows xp lately it seems that the royalty oem that is installed on the big comanies pc's cd key on the sides of their pcs have been being copied down and used

While i don't condone pirating i found this article funny http://www.zdnet.com/blog/bott/confessions-of-a-windows-7-pirate/1817?tag=content;siu-container No it does not tell you where to go or exactly how to do it in syep by step. But a reporter from zdnet.com was able to install windows 7 and even bypass microsofts verification procedures as well as its detection of these programs. This is where microsoft should focus their attentions. Not on the DIY pc builder that does buy their software. Instead of redoing their license agreements and going out of their way to over charge their paying customers their time and money would be best served in fighting the real problems with people that are actually stealing from them >_<
 
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It would be nice and beneficial to posters here if there was a sticky about this issue with oem in the systems area of these forums under both the new build and home built categories. So at least those buying the oem version of windows 7 can know the full risks with using it.
 
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A few more new things worth reading

A small faq on windows oem

http://www.tech-faq.com/windows-oem.html

Lecon consulting what microsoft will not tell you about windows 7 licensing

http://www.leconconsulting.com/?id=46

I quote from the part about using upgrade version:

What Microsoft won't tell you about Windows 7 licensing
Microsoft offers many ways to buy Windows 7. You can buy the operating system preinstalled on a new PC, upgrade an existing PC using a shrink-wrapped retail package, purchase an upgrade online, or build a PC from scratch and install Windows yourself. In each of these cases, you can also take your pick of multiple Windows editions The price you pay will vary, depending on the edition and the sales channel. There are different license agreements associated with each such combination. Those license agreements are contracts that give you specific rights and also include specific limitations.

This might sound arbitrary. Indeed, a common complaint we hear is that Microsoft should simply sell one version of its OS at one price to every customer. That ignores the reality of multiple sales channels, and the fact that some people want the option to pay a lower price if they don't plan to use some features and are willing to pay a higher price for features like BitLocker file encryption.

If you're not a lawyer, the subject of Windows licensing can be overwhelmingly confusing. The good news is that for most circumstances you are likely to encounter as a consumer or small business buyer, the licensing rules are fairly simple and controversy never arises. But for IT pros, enthusiasts, and large enterprises knowing these rules can save a lot of money and prevent legal hassles.

As we have discovered, Microsoft does not have all of this information organized in one convenient location. Much of it, in fact, is buried in long, dry license agreements and on sites that are available only to partners. I couldn't find this information in one convenient place, so I decided to do the job myself. We gathered details from many public and private sources and summarized the various types of Windows 7 license agreements available to consumers and business customers. Note that this table and the accompanying descriptions deliberately exclude a small number of license types: for example, we have omitted academic and government licenses, as well as those provided as part of MSDN and TechNet subscriptions and those included with Action Pack subscriptions for Microsoft partners. With those exceptions, we believe this list includes every license situation that the overwhelming majority of Windows customers will encounter in the real world.

The table below is your starting point. The license types listed in the columns of this table are arranged in rough order of price, from least expensive to most expensive. For a detailed discussion of each license type, see the information below, which explains some of the subtleties and exceptions to these rules. And a final, very important note: This article is not a legal advice.




Windows 7 OEM versions
According to Microsoft, roughly 90% of all copies of Windows are purchased with new PCs, preinstalled by Original Equipment Manufacturers that build the PC and sell Windows as part of the package. That will certainly be true with Windows 7.

OEM (major PC manufacturer) This is, by far, the cheapest way to purchase Windows 7. The top 20 or so PC makers (sometimes called "royalty OEMs") collectively sell millions of PCs per month with Windows already installed on them. When you start up that PC for the first time, you accept two license agreements, one with the manufacturer and one with Microsoft. Here's what you need to know about this type of license agreement:

Your Windows license agreement is between you and the PC maker, not between you and Microsoft.
The OEM uses special imaging tools to install Windows on PCs they manufacture. When you first turn on the PC, you accept a license agreement with the OEM and with Microsoft.
The PC maker is required to provide support for Windows. Except for security issues, Microsoft will not provide free support for any issues you have with Windows purchased from an OEM.
Your copy of Windows is locked to the PC on which you purchased it. You cannot transfer that license to another PC.
You can upgrade any components or peripherals on your PC and keep your license intact. You can replace the motherboard with an identical model or an equivalent model from the OEM if it fails. However, if you personally replace or upgrade the motherboard, your OEM Windows license is null and void.
Windows activation is typically not required when Windows is preinstalled by a royalty OEM. Instead, these copies are pre-activated at the factory. Your copy of Windows will be automatically reactivated if you reinstall it using the media or recovery partition from the PC maker, it will not require activation.
At the time you purchase an OEM copy of Windows 7 to be preinstalled on a new PC, you must choose either 32-bit or 64-bit Windows. Your agreement with the OEM determines whether you can switch to a different version; some PC makers support only a single version with specific PC models and will not allow you to switch from 32-bit to 64-bit (or vice versa) after purchase.
OEM (System Builder) If you buy a new computer from a local PC builder (sometimes called a "white box" PC), you can get an OEM edition of Windows preinstalled. This type of OEM license differs in a few crucial details from the version the big PC makers sell:

As with the royalty OEM versions, your copy of Windows is locked to the PC on which it is installed and cannot be transferred to a PC, nor can the motherboard be upgraded.
Under the terms of its agreement with Microsoft, the OEM must use the Windows OEM Preinstallation Kit (OPK) to install Windows. When you first turn on the PC, you accept a license agreement with the OEM and with Microsoft. The OEM is required to provide support for your copy of Windows.
Activation of your new PC is required within 30 days. The product key should already have been entered as part of the OPK installation and activation should be automatic and transparent to you.
Although it is possible for an individual to buy a System Builder copy of Windows 7 and install it on a new PC, that scenario is specifically prohibited by the license agreement, which requires that the software be installed using the OPK and then resold to a non-related third party. (Microsoft once allowed "hobbyists" to use OEM System Builder software to build their own PCs, but the company switched to a hard-line stance on this issue sometime after Vista shipped in early 2007.)
When you purchase a white-box PC from a system builder, the PC maker preinstalls the Windows version you purchased. The package you receive includes reinstallation media and a product key that is similar to a full packaged product but cannot be used for an in-place upgrade. You may or may not receive both 32-bit and 64-bit media. If you receive both types of media, you can switch from 32-bit to 64-bit Windows or vice versa by performing a custom reinstall using your product key.
[Update: As a consumer, you can buy an OEM System Builder copy of Windows from countless online shopping outlets. Technically, you're not supposed to use those copies unless you're building a PC for resal to a third party. But Microsoft's own employees and retail partners, and even its own "decision engine," Bing, aren't so clear on the rules.]

All clear? Now let's move on to the next category: upgrades.



Upgrade versions
Let's assume you have a machine with Windows installed on it. Maybe you bought it preinstalled from a PC maker. Maybe you upgraded a previous version (like XP to Vista or Vista to Windows 7). Maybe you built it yourself with a full retail license. Whatever. Now you want to upgrade. You have two options.

Windows Anytime Upgrade This option is exclusively for people who already have Windows 7 Starter, Home Basic, Home Premium, or Professional installed. This might be the case if you get a great deal on a new PC with a specific edition of Windows 7, such as a netbook running Windows 7 Starter or a notebook running Windows 7 Home Premium. You now you actually want a more advanced version, but the PC is preconfigured and can't be customized. That's where Windows Anytime Upgrade comes in. You can use this option to replace your edition with the one you really want, with the features you need.

The Anytime Upgrade process is very quick (10 minutes or less, typically) and does not require any media. You kick off the process from the System dialog box in Control Panel and then enter a valid key for the edition you want to upgrade to. You can purchase a key online or use a key from any upgrade or full edition of Windows 7. The starting version must be activated before Windows Anytime Upgrade will begin.

When the upgrade completes, you are running the new, higher version. We have not tested the reinstall process yet. Officially, one would reinstall the original version and then use the Anytime Upgrade key to go through the upgrade process again. I am certain there are easier ways and will test them later.

Retail upgrade Here's the one that has caused all the recent controversy. A retail upgrade package is sold at a steep discount to a fully licensed retail product. The idea is that you are a repeat customer, and you get a price break because you already paid for a full Windows license earlier. Retail upgrades qualify for free technical support from Microsoft, even if the copy you're replacing was originally supplied by an OEM.

So who qualifies for a Windows 7 upgrade license? The Windows 7 retail upgrade package says "All editions of Windows XP and Windows Vista qualify you to upgrade." The same language appears on the listings at the Microsoft Store. Specifically:

Any PC that was purchased with Windows XP or Vista preinstalled (look for the sticker on the side) is qualified. This is true whether the PC came from a large royalty OEM or a system builder. You can install a retail upgrade of Windows 7 on that PC. You cannot, however, use the OEM license from an old PC to upgrade a new PC without Windows installed.
Any retail full copy of Windows XP or Windows Vista can serve as the qualifying license as well. If have a full retail copy (not an OEM edition) on an old PC, you can uninstall that copy from the old PC and use it as the baseline full license for the new PC.
Older copies of Windows, including Windows 95/98/Me or Windows 2000, do not qualify for upgrading. There was some confusion earlier this summer when a page at the Microsoft Store online briefly stated that Windows 2000 owners could qualify for an upgrade. This appears to have been a mistake.

An open letter to hobbyist from the man Bill gates Himself

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_Letter_to_Hobbyists

(This makes me worry as they call do it yourself pc builders as hobbyist in their oem faq on microsofts site)

http://www.microsoft.com/oem/en/licensing/sblicensing/pages/licensing_for_hobbyists.aspx

Another article on the tos and oem

http://www.experts-exchange.com/OS/Microsoft_Operating_Systems/Windows/XP/A_3721-Can-I-transfer-my-OEM-version-of-Windows-to-another-PC.html

Heres an interesting one from a microsoft employee

http://blogs.msdn.com/b/mssmallbiz/archive/2009/10/27/no-oem-microsoft-windows-licenses-cannot-be-transferred-to-another-pc.aspx

I quote

** UPDATE: One of the readers of my Blog posted a comment to this post and reminded me of something that I had forgotten to include in the original write-up. Yes, in Germany specifically, OEM licenses can be transferred. This does apply to Germany specifically though, so everywhere else it holds true that OEM licenses cannot be transferred to a different computer. Thank you for pointing this out and reminding me. I appreciate that.

Thank you and have a wonderful day,

So in germany this does not apply? I wonder if this does not apply in some states as we each have different laws.

Iowa sued them >_< https://iowamicrosoftcase.com/pdfs/SummaryNotice.pdf And won :)

Some one mentioned to me that they changed their license do to a lawsuit but for the life of me i can not find it >_<

But did think some may find these links interesting to say the least.
 
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Interesting but does bring up more questions -- For Example let's say I have an OEM machine that has VISTA installed when purchased and I want to upgrade to windows 7 -- Is using an upgrade version of Win7 the legal and correct method to upgrade or do I have to buy a full retail version of WIN7 ?? And if it is not legal to use the upgrade on an OEM version then what is a user supposed to do when they want to upgrade from Vista to Win7 on their prebuilt system ?

The answer is not as simple as you would think since according to MS the OEM license is tied to that MOBO and for the time being the upgrade will be used with the same MOBO and having a legitimate VIsta license it would seem that an Upgrade version could be used but then comes a problem --- Once upgraded using an Upgrade license the resulting license for Win 7 is according to MS a Retail license and the old OEM license for Vista is terminated and no longer exists -- So now what happens when awhile later I decide to upgrade to a new system - Is the license transferable since it is now considered a retail product or is the license still tied to the original MOBO ?? I have tried to find a clear answer but have not been able to. -- Also if the upgrade of the OEM version remains an OEM license then shouldn't the purchase price for an OEM upgrade be less than that of a retail upgrade since the resulting license then becomes reuseable on new systems ?
 
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Great questions. I've been researching this for over 3 days now and even though i've read its different interpretations and read it again its still unclear when it comes to oem versions of previous windows. With windows xp and vista the oems are not mentioned much in the tos >_<
 
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And thing is it does make a difference when trying to make a purchase -- If the OEM version after upgrading using an upgrade license is still tied to the MOBO then it would be better to purchase the retail version now instead of an upgrade license since it would be reuseable when getting a new system built but if the OEM does as MS's lcensing seems to say become a retail license once upgraded then better to save the $ and get the upgrade version (and isn't the whole reason for the upgrade version to reward users of previous versions and get them to buy the new version by providing an incentive through the lower price.) MS really needs to clarify these things if they want end users to actually follow the terms !!
 
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Follow the terms? :pfff: I'd settle for being able to understand them. 😱 :pt1cable:
 
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So many confusing elements to the new license agreements. They contradict themselves so much i wonder if the same person wrote the whole thing with a multiple personality disorder. :heink: In one they say oem versions qualify for the upgrade and in the next 2 explanations they explain why it doesn't. I'm planning a new build myself to happen over the next several months. And i plan on retiring my old pc to a linux set up for my kids to play with. And was planning on maybe getting the upgrade to install my windows xp home edition on the new system then upgrading to the windows 7 version.

Now my computer right now is running alright but i have no clue how much time it has. I can not make any replacements on this system that would not require an upgrade unless i try to hunt down an old used 939 chipset board which would cost me alot of money and probably give me a board in less good shape then my current one. And the new TOS by microsoft does not cover this situation as far as i've been able to research it.

So i have no clue as to whether or not i would be able to reinstall my windows xp into the new system and be able to use the upgrade to qualify for the windows 7 upgrade with no problems. Then later on when i need to upgrade again would i be able to use my xp to reinstall it to a much newer system later use the upgrade then buy and use the new upgrade (probably newer then windows 8 i'm thinking far into the future) would i be able to do that? Thing is microsoft is not thinking further then the here and now so have not even thought past their current cash flow.

If they did they would not be releasing new windows versions every 3 years or so. Buying the latest technology should last a person at least 5-6 years. And thats how they should be releasing their products not every 1/2/3 years. All i know is that i'm unsure about which path to take. And microsoft is unsure themselves on which path a customer should take as well. And thats a serious problem.
 
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Has any one been able to figure out for sure what the policy is on being able to install your old windows xp OEM on a new system then using the upgrade of windows 7? And whether or not that version is considered then to be the full version or not (the upgraded windows 7 count as a full version of windows home)?
 
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As far as I can tell (and you may want to call MS for verification first) when you install the Upgrade version in order to upgrade from XP you need to do a custom install (so no need to install XP first since you'll be reformatting and wiping the HDD when installing 7 anyway) -- SO you would use the upgrade media to install win7 on the new system (do not enter any product key during install - If you do it will tell you the system does not qualify for this version since it does not find an OS installed (It will do this with any XP upgrade) but just hit enter with a blank key and the install will proceed -- THen select "CUSTOM" install - and select a clean install to the new HDD and it will proceed. After it finishes and everything is installed it will show that you have 30 days to activate the installation --- First download and install all windows Updates (the Updates that are waiting to be installed can cause activation problems so install them before attempting activation) -- Once they finish installing (can take a few attempts since there will be lots of them !)

Now open windows activation (in the start bar select Help - type in activate and select "activate windows on this computer" Enter your Product key for the upgrade and let it attempt to activate (at this point it may work or may fail ) -- IF it fails at this point either :

1.) contact MS and have them walk you through the process (they will ask for the 2 product keys - (If asked and you do not want to chance them saying it does not qualify tell them you are upgrading the OEM system and not installing it on a new system) - and will then give you a response code to activate.

2.) IF you are more experienced and do not mind using regedit -- then follow the second method described in this article - which changes the key that the upgrade version checks to see if the install of an old OS existed when the reformat of the HDD started so that the activator believes an old OS had been found when the process started and thus will almost always allow the activation to be successful.
 
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I question if we are allowed to reccomend the oem version as the tos on the license clearly states you can not install it on a pc you plan to keep and not resell. I may go with the upgrade with a new build. But i'm curious as to whether or not it counts as the full version (like the premium) or not.
 
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Thing is there is no way for MS to know whether the system was built and sold or built and used (Also I doubt if you took them to court over it that there is any judge that would side with their TOS the way it is !) -- As them trying to distinguish a valid license by the fact it was assembled and sold to someone or assembled and used by that person is hardly a justification for whether a SOFTWARE product license is valid or invalid ! (but if you want to play along then you just tell them you bought the system from a local builder or if you're going to feel guilty by lying to them then just take all of the pieces and pay someone to assemble it and install the software !!)
 
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This is true but its a very thin grey line. My concern is the rules of the forums here state :

Don't...
Post in ALL CAPS or use excessive punctuation!!!
Share personal information, like your email address. Identify theft is real.
Bump posts, claim "first!"
Hijack a topic. Stick to the original conversation.
Ask for help pirating, cracking passwords, or bypassing copyright protection

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Now it has not gone to court that i know of. But it clearly state that you are only to use this in a pc you plan to sell to some one else (it states so on their web site as well as on the sites that sell the oem) So i'm curious concerning the rules here if it is really ok to recommend the oem version at all with their license agreement and tos in mind. Why did microsoft have to make it so confusing i wonder?
 
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Hey, first time builder here. I was originally planning on getting the $100 OEM version of Windows, but after reading some of these posts and articles don't really know what to make of it. So the OEM version is fine up until either A) your mobo craps out OR B) you choose to upgrade your mobo?

What if you build your computer, install Windows, and then a month later your mobo dies? Assuming it's under warranty, after you get your replacement mobo your going to have to get another copy of the OEM version of Windows? That sounds crazy...

Does this apply to any other hardware parts like CPU, HD, or RAM? I'm confused on what to buy now...

Now I feel like it would be better just to buy the $200 full version so that way if I change out any parts or something dies I still have an operating system.

Advice? Is my understanding of things correct?
 
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No you'll be fine as that specifically is addressed in the license agreement -- If your MOBO dies then you can reuse the license on another Exact match or Warranty Replacement MOBO ( Needs to be the same Model MOBO or an alternative provided by the manufacturer as a warranty replacement if the exact model is discontinued ) So all you would need to do is call MS if\when the new MOBO activation failed the auto activation and explain that it was replaced under warranty or due to the MOBO being dead and they will give you a new activation response code ( And in fact in most cases any other time you upgrade the MOBO if you simply call MS they will give you a new code -- but unless it is due to a defect or Warranty replacement they are not obligated to under the license agreement !!) -- They do this because they know that there are defective MOBOs out there and there will be times where they are replaced -- the main reason the OEM license is tied to the first MOBO it is installed on is because the license is designed to be used by small retailers\system builders that sell prebuilt systems for resale and thus once the system is upgraded or changed the builder is no longer responsible for warranty repairs --- Once this is the case MS can no longer force the OEM to provide support for it's OS and MS does not provide support for OEM version so at that point there is no one to turn to for support so they figure better to have the license expire instead of leting it be used without any support available. -- But in those specific warranty replacement or defect replacement cases the OEM is still responsible for support of the system and license so MS will provide a new activation key.

Also replacement of any other part is fine -- MS has decided that the system is the same as long as the MOBO is the same for their definition so that is the only part that the license is tied to -- swapping HDDs, CPUs, GPUs etc. is allowed and the system remains the same system so the license is fine and only expires once the MOBO is changed.

 
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Thanks JDFan! I suppose I'll just go with the OEM version then.

Also, you said something about when you upgrade your MOBO you can still call and request a new code? Is this for people that are willing to lie to Microsoft about having a defective MOBO, when in actuality they are simply upgrading? haha That seems sketchy. Do people actually get away with this?
 
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While it might be sketchy - Yes many people actually do it -- And MS really needs to clarify and uphold their policy on the licensing (In a way MS brings this on themselves by leaving the licensing of the product and the various versions of the OS so foggy and open to various interpretations - I mean really how can they expect customer service reps to verify if the MOBO had to be replaced due to defect or just to upgrade a system and why should one qualify for a new code to reuse the OS while the other doesn't resulting in the need to spend $100 -- and how do they expect retailers to verify whether the OEM version they are selling is for a system builder using it to resell to someone or building for themselves and why should it matter if the final result is a single copy of their software being used to run a single system - does it really make sense to be able to buy the software for $100 if you're reselling the system you build but having to pay $200 if you are going to use it yourself ??

In the end whether they give you a new code or not just depends on the mood of the CSR that you happen to talk to on the day you call - Some will pretty much give anyone a new code (I know of a few people that have called and received valid keys for installing Pirated copies just by answering a few questions the way MS wants you to - and others who have had them give them a new code for OEM versions when they clearly tell the CS rep that they are using it for a newly built system since their old system was outdated) - You have to remember the CS reps on the other end of the phone are usually minimum wage workers in third world countries - that sometimes barely speak English and couldn't really care. They only follow the script they are given and as they read the scripted questions base their response by what is written in their service guide - So answer the questions correctly and they move to the next step which tells them to give you a new valid code if the responses are correct or sometimes just give you a code so they can move to the next call ! ) -- So as long as MS doesn't clarify what does\doesn't qualify and enforces it in some consistent manner there will always be those that just call until they get the right person on the line that gives them a new code.
 
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