Windows 8 Features Slick Search from Start Screen

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[citation][nom]killerclick[/nom]The problem for me is not whether you can use the keyboard or the mouse, rather it's that the entire desktop with all open windows (on my three 1080p screens) will go away while I'm trying to open the calculator or notepad or whatever.[/citation]
That's a good point, depending on the task. Visibility being obscured by this giant Start screen could get irritating.
 
It's nice that windows is catching up with a decent search. I've had the same functionality for about a year and a half on Gnome Shell. The difference is when I click the hot corner or Super Key my desktop doesn't disappear it goes to more of an equivalent to OSX's Expo with a row of quick link along the edge. Which in my opinion is much less jarring and detrimental to work flow. Everyone is working on new desktop styles and merging touch format with desktop, but MS seems to have made one that is more detrimental to desktop usage than the others. Time will tell though.
 


Linux/tablet fanboy detected :non:

"Breaking up the work flow" is bull$h!t... it's a common myth, just like Macs/iPhone being "easier" to work with than Windows/Android.
 
[citation][nom]zshazz[/nom]Like someone already mentioned, it's not 2 mouse clicks unless you pin it to the start menu (or unless you use it often and it shows up in your recently used programs list on your start menu).In addition, you seem to be ignoring the time it takes to move your mouse to the start menu button and then finding the calculator icon, and finally selecting it.Since the keys on a keyboard are constant and very fast to press, 5 keyboard strokes will almost always be faster than the process above. Here, I'll time myself:Keyboard: winkey c a l c ENTER -- 1.7 secondsNot even trying to be fast, this includes the time taken to move my left hand to the keyboard from starting the timer. and back to stop the timer again.Now, for the mouse: I pinned the calculator, I've identified exactly where it is on the screen before I run this, so I'm removing the times needed to figure out exactly where on the screen it is. I'm even putting the mouse in the lower left quadrant of the screen to minimize the amount of time it takes to get to the start menu.Mouse: 2.0 seconds.Now, this has the additional advantage of my left hand staying on the timer so I can stop it immediately when I reach my goal.Now, feel free to actually repeat this yourself. I would be surprised if your results differed significantly from mine.It really shouldn't surprise you that keyboard commands are faster than using the mouse.That all said, Windows 7 has the same thing as Windows 8 (just not taken full screen). Some people above said ctrl+esc, but all you have to do is press and release the Windows key like the video said. I think the take away from this video is that the new Start was designed for power users.[/citation]

I'm fast with both mouse and keyboard, but mouse was still faster for me (didn't time myself, but it was obviously 2x as fast)

Here's a funny thought: how many average users will actually take time to figure out these keyboard combos? So far all the Windows users I met don't know ANY keyboard shortcuts and are very amazed if you show Alt-Tab (Win-Tab on Win7 simply causes them to faint, they didn't even know it's possible on a PC), Win+E or any other shortcuts.

So actually MS is doing the same BS they did with Vista: it's too complex to deal with for an average consumer (analogy: Vista had many problems that an enthusiast could easily fix but the common user was overwhelmed with) and it's useless for a power user (analogy: power user didn't need Vista as it offered nothing new), since we already have same functionality in Win7 - Start, type something, Enter.

And you don't even have to "switch to Start mode" :)

P.S. What retard suggested MS to have the Start Menu, or whatever this green BS is, on the right? :heink: Probably the same idiot who convinced Canonical to force reversed buttons layout (all windows control buttons - Maximize, Minimize, Close - on the top left instead of top right). Just in case of Ubuntu I can fix it in one minute and in case of Win8 I probably won't be.
 
frankly, this tablet oriented approach Win8 is taking seems ludicrous to
me...and kb control codes were around back in the days of MSDOS, before
windows, so i am completely unimpressed...it's all a nod to the trendy
tablet thing where you don't have a mouse. i typically upgrade with each
new Windows release, but this is one i definitly will be skipping, Win7
is just fine...i'll be waiting for an upgrade that actually has features
i want, not window dressing backsliding...incidentally, i frequently use
calc, and it's ONE click as i have it pinned to the taskbar.
 
[citation][nom]campb292[/nom]While I am at it - stop with all the gimmicks and mac-like menus. Windows has an 85-90% market share. Rewrite the kernel, upgrade ntfs to a new file system, stop write throttling, end 32 bit, stop turning on automatic updates after I just turned it off... improve. Stop turning the round wheel into a box; Round just works better.[/citation]
[citation][nom]campb292[/nom]People need to start stepping up and criticizing this stuff. This whole concept doesn't save time. I don't want to "switch to start" with the logo key and type "calc" to bring up the calculator. Right now it is 2 clicks. Why would I want to increase that to 5?[/citation]

on a desktop, that is completely un acceptable, but he is on a laptop/netbook (my hand takes up 3/4 the size of a standard keyboard, he has small hands, cant tell which) with a nipple, possibly no touch pad, in this case, typing is less of an ordeal than using either nipple or touch pad.

i 100% agree with just rewrite the kernal, and stop screwing with the rest of the os, add features but let us turn them off if we don't like them. and dont completely redo how everything is stored and sorted from one os to another, 95-xp and 7 control panel for example at least by default.

[citation][nom]AbdullahG[/nom]You do realize you can just use the mouse then, right?[/citation]

not if they take the start menu away, the dev build alread did didnt it? not saying it will stay gone, but it seams like they are pushing for the end of the mouse.

[citation][nom]amk-aka-Phantom[/nom]Yep.Stupid, anyhow... I can't recall when was the last time I used Search. I really can't. Whether or not Win8 will have better search doesn't matter to me.[/citation]

i use search all the time, in xp, i know the vague file name, and need to search through 50000+ files.
 
[citation][nom]Anonymous[/nom]What are you talking about campb292? How is it 2 clicks now? Also, are you talking about 2 "mouse clicks" vs 5 "keyboard key presses"? If so, it's clear that 5 keyboard key presses is many times faster than 2 mouse clicks.I'm all for criticizing stuff that needs criticizing, but I don't find your criticism very compelling.[/citation]

ok, how about this, i have about 200 things in start menu currently, what are the odds that i will remember all 200 commands, and be able to remember what each one does, the moment i want to run the program, and im coming at this from a they may take away start menu angle, i doubt they will, but its possible, as they seam to be pushing it away with every preview they do.

[citation][nom]jimmysmitty[/nom]I wouldn't mind a new file system, hell they had one planned for Vista, WinFS which looked to run circles around NTFS, but that was cut for now. As for rewriting the Kernal, why do it again? It was rewritten for Vista, hence why you can't really upgrade from XP to Vista, and reworked for 7. The 7 Kernal works great, why redo it if you don't have to? How many times do you think Apple has rewritten its Unix Kernal for OSX?It wont matter because they already have the classi 7 Start menu in 8. This is the Metro UA and much like Aero, can be turned off.Have people really been paying attention to the Windows 8 info or just missing it all together?Unless you have Calculator pinned to the Start menu, its 4 clicks. Start> All programs> Accessories> Calculator.[/citation]

because if you aren't rewriting the kernel, than is it even worth an upgrade? by rewriting we mean optimizing, not start from scratch like you are thinking.


 
[citation][nom]amk-aka-Phantom[/nom]I'm fast with both mouse and keyboard, but mouse was still faster for me...[/citation]

I seriously doubt that mousing is 2x faster than using keyboard for you, but if you say so, I suppose I can't disprove what you say is true without you making a recording and putting it on Youtube for us all to analyze. I do know that for experienced users keyboard usage will be much faster than moving a mouse. It's no mystery that moving a mouse across the screen in a precise manner takes more time than typing a few keys on a keyboard. There's no easier way to prove this to you than to have you bring up Windows 7's on screen keyboard. Use that with a mouse and tell me that you can type even 1/5th as fast as you can with a keyboard. If that ends up being the case, I have to doubt your claim of being fast with a keyboard or you're much faster with a mouse than you let on.

And, just so you know, I read the rest of your post and agree with your conclusion that average users won't use keyboard combos. Though, I can't agree with your premise that Windows 8 is too complex to deal with for the average consumer (mainly because I don't have any knowledge that may support that conclusion and you didn't provide any support either).
 


I didn't say WIn8 is too complex to deal with for the average consumer. I meant that about keyboard commands.

Keyboard search will be useful on a laptop with no mouse attached, but we already have it in Win7 - nothing to boast about.

Don't compare on-screen keyboard with finding an item in Start menu. Doing the first requires you to move your hand many times, while the second only takes a mouse slash to the bottom left, a click and then navigating the menu, another click. I usually use the combination of keyboard and mouse, anyway - Win key, then navigate with the mouse.
 
[citation][nom]amk-aka-Phantom[/nom]but we already have it in Win7 - nothing to boast about.[/citation]

Ok, hold right there for a moment. You seem to be misunderstanding me, as I've never claimed that Windows 7 didn't have this feature. In fact, if you look at my previous posts, I've made it clear that I know about this feature... and for that matter, I actually use it. The only thing I've been saying is that using the keyboard is faster than using the mouse.

[citation][nom]amk-aka-Phantom[/nom]Don't compare on-screen keyboard with finding an item in Start menu. Doing the first requires you to move your hand many times, while the second only takes a mouse slash to the bottom left, a click and then navigating the menu, another click. I usually use the combination of keyboard and mouse, anyway - Win key, then navigate with the mouse.[/citation]

My point was that moving the mouse takes time that you and campb292 seemed to be ignoring in saying that "2 < 5 means mousing is faster" argument. Mousing takes more than 2 *actions* to perform. You must move the mouse to the lower-bottom of the screen, click, move the mouse again to select Calc, then click again. Some of these actions take significantly more time than pressing a key, and that isn't matter of opinion, that's something that is measurable. While "slashing your mouse to the bottom left of the screen" is relatively quick (compared to the more precise on-screen keyboard motions), it cannot be faster than pressing a key down. Furthermore, you still must locate and select calculator in the start menu. Again, even in idealized conditions when you don't have to locate calculator (you already know exactly where it is), the time spent mousing to it is much more significant than typing a key. This is where the comparison to on-screen keyboard comes in to play. You must move the mouse and then click, which, at least for me, takes 5x longer than pressing a key.
 


I didn't say you don't know about this feature. I'm bashing MS boasting about it as if that's innovation. I hope that it will at least get some "common users" to start using what's been around for a few years in Win8 - futile hope, I know, but still...

I know it's not 2 actions. I'm saying that mouse IS faster for me. And of course I know exactly where Calculator icon is :)
 
[citation][nom]amk-aka-Phantom[/nom]I usually use the combination of keyboard and mouse, anyway - Win key, then navigate with the mouse.[/citation]

Also, I sincerely hope you didn't use this method earlier when you came up with 2x faster using the mouse. Obviously, this method will be faster than either other method mentioned because you wouldn't even need to move the mouse. Winkey tap, click = very fast ... but not a realistic condition at all because most users don't keep their mouse where the calculator will pop up in their start menu.
 
[citation][nom]amk-aka-Phantom[/nom]I know it's not 2 actions. I'm saying that mouse IS faster for me. And of course I know exactly where Calculator icon is[/citation]

Again, I don't understand how the mouse could be faster for you. I've explained why it should be slower (with the on-screen keyboard example). I still think the majority of power users will use the keyboard commands and it will be faster than mousing for them.
 
[citation][nom]zshazz[/nom]Like someone already mentioned, it's not 2 mouse clicks unless you pin it to the start menu (or unless you use it often and it shows up in your recently used programs list on your start menu).In addition, you seem to be ignoring the time it takes to move your mouse to the start menu button and then finding the calculator icon, and finally selecting it.Since the keys on a keyboard are constant and very fast to press, 5 keyboard strokes will almost always be faster than the process above. Here, I'll time myself:Keyboard: winkey c a l c ENTER -- 1.7 secondsNot even trying to be fast, this includes the time taken to move my left hand to the keyboard from starting the timer. and back to stop the timer again.Now, for the mouse: I pinned the calculator, I've identified exactly where it is on the screen before I run this, so I'm removing the times needed to figure out exactly where on the screen it is. I'm even putting the mouse in the lower left quadrant of the screen to minimize the amount of time it takes to get to the start menu.Mouse: 2.0 seconds.Now, this has the additional advantage of my left hand staying on the timer so I can stop it immediately when I reach my goal.Now, feel free to actually repeat this yourself. I would be surprised if your results differed significantly from mine.It really shouldn't surprise you that keyboard commands are faster than using the mouse.That all said, Windows 7 has the same thing as Windows 8 (just not taken full screen). Some people above said ctrl+esc, but all you have to do is press and release the Windows key like the video said. I think the take away from this video is that the new Start was designed for power users.[/citation]
And you're failing to account for hand travel-time from mouse to keyboard.

If you already have both hands on the keyboard, then yeah, 5 keystrokes will be faster. If you don't, you'll take a lot longer to move your hands, align them (especially in the dark where you need to feel for those bumps), and type it in instead of just going through the traditional start menu.

There's also the fact most people don't just continuously rest their left hand on the keyboard while they surf. As silly as it sounds, it's a lot less "effort" to move one wrist twice than move both arms to type.

And honestly, I've never seen start-search being anything near the world-changing feature everyone makes it out to be. I've never seen an average-Joe use it, and power-users are organized well enough that it's rarely needed.
 
[citation][nom]supertrek32[/nom]And you're failing to account for hand travel-time from mouse to keyboard.[/citation]

For the record, this is a fair point. The reason I "don't account for hand travel-time from mouse to keyboard" is because during the tests I did earlier, I included that. 1.7 seconds is including moving my hands and such. Furthermore, as you noted later in your post, sometimes your left hand will already be on the keyboard, which means that while you're pressing the winkey button, you're moving your hand ... in that case, the time penalty is almost nil as you're already beginning the action while simultaneously preparing for more of the action.

[citation][nom]supertrek32[/nom]align them (especially in the dark where you need to feel for those bumps), and type it in instead of just going through the traditional start menu.[/citation]

This is another good point, but I disagree that a power user will need to align their hands on a keyboard. If a user's hands don't nearly automatically align to the keyboard, they're probably not a power user. Heck, I can align my hands to my keyboard even in awkward angles, and I still consider myself on one of the bottom levels of power user-dom.
 
I like the reference to a "unified experience" at the end. Because switching from a traditional desktop to a gaudy green screen and back again is highly unified. :sarcastic:

I think Unity and GNOME Shell do this a lot better - the overlays are properly integrated with the desktop and not flashing bright colours around the place. Actually the Vista and Win 7 start menus have adequate search capabilities as well, far better than XP's search which was slow and returned nothing of value.

[citation][nom]killerclick[/nom]Try this in Windows 7... Ctrl+Esc and then type a file name! Amazing, right?[/citation]
Just press the Super (Windows) key and save yourself both a keystroke and the hassle of reaching for the Esc key.
 
just like previous user said, windows 7 search sucks, sometime it can't find the file i search, and it take a really long time to search, it a shame they turn the better search in xp to tard in windows 7.
hopefully windows 8 will improve it

for now i use a search program called everything, it awesome software.

it means you doesn't have many pc users, cos i seem they used search a lot, and it pain in the ass to try to browse file in across multiple harddrive (40tb)

"I've never seen an average-Joe use it, and power-users are organized well enough that it's rarely needed."
 
Winkey + R then Type "calc" is WAYY faster than anything START (which is just like clicking start and then going to run ). If this is all win 8 has to offer, count MS out for a bruising. I see Linux and it's more popular distro's becoming more and more popular. And yes it is more secure than A.D. and has IMMENSLEY more support that Win2kX

or better yet, if you need to search just hit WINKEY + D (for desktop) and then F3 to search the computer. Not hard
 
[citation][nom]a7thstone[/nom]It's nice that windows is catching up with a decent search. I've had the same functionality for about a year and a half on Gnome Shell. The difference is when I click the hot corner or Super Key my desktop doesn't disappear it goes to more of an equivalent to OSX's Expo with a row of quick link along the edge. Which in my opinion is much less jarring and detrimental to work flow. Everyone is working on new desktop styles and merging touch format with desktop, but MS seems to have made one that is more detrimental to desktop usage than the others. Time will tell though.[/citation]

couldn't agree more. same tasks need more clicks now than win7. Win7 in turns need more clicks than winXP to perform same task.
 
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