News Windows on Arm may be a thing of the past soon — Arm CEO confirms Qualcomm's exclusivity agreement with Microsoft expires this year

[Admin]

Arm CEO Rene Haas confirmed rumors that Qualcomm's exclusivity agreement with Microsoft ends this year.

Windows on Arm may be a thing of the past soon — Arm CEO confirms Qualcomm's exclusivity agreement with Microsoft expires this year : Read more

 

[hotaru251]

For its part, Intel doesn’t feel threatened by the prospect of a new generation of Arm chips for PCs, though the company’s confidence hasn’t always been well-founded.

[looks at how amd wrecked em in server & how Zen has made em have to actually improve]

oh Intel...will you never learn.

 

[punkncat]

In order to be a "thing of the past" isn't there some requirement to have "been a thing" in the first place. I was not aware that this format was widely accepted enough to make a drop in the bucket, much less to be missed. I honestly cannot imagine how an experience on an OS with the overhead that Windows requires being particularly pleasant on a mobile phone/tablet chip. Heck the kneecapped Atom and such processors were obsolete before they were physically made....perhaps I am missing something?

 

[ThomasKinsley]

In order to be a "thing of the past" isn't there some requirement to have "been a thing" in the first place. I was not aware that this format was widely accepted enough to make a drop in the bucket, much less to be missed. I honestly cannot imagine how an experience on an OS with the overhead that Windows requires being particularly pleasant on a mobile phone/tablet chip. Heck the kneecapped Atom and such processors were obsolete before they were physically made....perhaps I am missing something?

If the leaks are anything to go by, Windows 12 is set to release this June with a more mobile-friendly UI and greater optimization for ARM. Hopefully that means less bloat. As for ARM, the latest chips are definitely capable of running Windows, coming close to desktop-class performance and rivaling comparative Intel chips from within the last 4-5 years. The M3 Mac has significantly closed the gap with the Pro and Max models trading blows with current gen CPUs.

 

[bit_user]

Qualcomm’s exclusivity agreement with Microsoft to provide CPUs for Windows on Arm PCs has been rumored to expire in 2024.

I believe this agreement was self-defeating. Qualcomm had more to lose by the Windows/ARM market failing to materialize & penetrate into the corporate market than they had to gain by maintaining a lock on it.

For Microsoft, it's obviously a pure loss. Qualcomm needed MS a lot more than MS needed Qualcomm. MS should've never entered into it. So far, I think it's been more like a suicide pact than a recipe for success, for either party.

 

[bit_user]

Windows requires being particularly pleasant on a mobile phone/tablet chip. Heck the kneecapped Atom and such processors were obsolete before they were physically made....perhaps I am missing something?

Qualcomm's Snapdragon laptop SoCs aren't the fastest CPUs that run Windows, but they easily beat many lower-end x86 CPUs that support Windows 11. That means there should be some market opportunity for them.

Once Qualcomm's new generation of CPUs finally launches with their own/Nuvia's cores, they should be propelled into the same performance tier as Apple.

 

[bit_user]

From the article:

those CPUs will be coming from AMD and Nvidia. Though neither company has specifically made Arm CPUs for laptops or desktops

Depends on how you feel about Google's Pixel C, which was powered by a Nvidia SoC:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pixel_C
​

Although Wikipedia describes it as a "tablet computer", I recall Google selling it more like a laptop. I guess is was probably in the same class as MS Surface.

 

[Findecanor]

Heck the kneecapped Atom and such processors were obsolete before they were physically made....perhaps I am missing something?

I've had three Intel Atom-based PCs throughout the years, one which I still use almost daily. Just because they are not suitable for your use-cases does not make them unsuitable for someone else's.

 

[Deleted member 2969713]

The thread title and link are missing a key word here that drastically changes the meaning of the heading (emphasis added):

Windows on Arm exclusivity may be a thing of the past soon — Arm CEO confirms Qualcomm's agreement with Microsoft expires this year

 

[punkncat]

I've had three Intel Atom-based PCs throughout the years, one which I still use almost daily. Just because they are not suitable for your use-cases does not make them unsuitable for someone else's.

Fair enough. If it works for you, go with it.

I put quite a few of those little "web-books" on Linux distro.

 

[dnbdave]

Fair enough. If it works for you, go with it.

I put quite a few of those little "web-books" on Linux distro.

Never heard of "web-books", are they anything like netbooks?

 

[TerryLaze]

The thread title and link are missing a key word here that drastically changes the meaning of the heading (emphasis added):

Well it would change it if there where other arm makers that would want to spend large amounts of money for no benefit, if not make a lot of loss.
It's true that any arm maker could make an arm cpu that would support windows, but unlike MS that needs arm support to get a foothold in the smarthone mobile market the arm cpu makers have nothing to gain from making their cpus more expensive to produce but not sell any more of them.

 

[cyrusfox]

I believe this agreement was self-defeating. Qualcomm had more to lose by the Windows/ARM market failing to materialize & penetrate into the corporate market than they had to gain by maintaining a lock on it.

I am not sure I understand, what did Qualcomm have to lose? Setting up the market for their competitors if they were successful? What issue would they face by holding a lock on it, (besides it had like zero adoption from my limited viewpoint, leading to negligible sales).

I found the window ARM machines much to expensive for what they were and anytime I looked I could find a faster, although inefficient Intel version of the same product for Half the price or less. Reminds me of the first Surface with ARM windows 8 tablet[Surface RT] Microsoft sure knows how to make multiple missteps.

 

[punkncat]

Never heard of "web-books", are they anything like netbooks?

Ha, yes. The proper term would not come to me at that moment in time.

 

[Deleted member 2969713]

Well it would change it if there where other arm makers that would want to spend large amounts of money for no benefit, if not make a lot of loss.
It's true that any arm maker could make an arm cpu that would support windows, but unlike MS that needs arm support to get a foothold in the smarthone mobile market the arm cpu makers have nothing to gain from making their cpus more expensive to produce but not sell any more of them.

Well, regardless of one's opinion of Windows on ARM, the correct title of the article has the missing "exclusivity," as shown when you click on the link. The title on the forums doesn't make logical sense.

 

[bit_user]

I am not sure I understand, what did Qualcomm have to lose? Setting up the market for their competitors if they were successful? What issue would they face by holding a lock on it,

They got too greedy and made the exclusivity for too long. The main market Qualcomm is courting is the corporate market, which you can see from the primary selling points of laptops with their SoCs:

• long battery life
• thin & light
• 5G connectivity

That's surely aimed at the corporate market. Maybe some college students, but the lack of gaming prowess should be a huge negative with that crowd. Corporate customers are going to be very conservative. They'll want to see product maturity and multiple vendors, before they dip a toe in the water.

(besides it had like zero adoption from my limited viewpoint, leading to negligible sales).

Thank you. That's exactly my point. Having a lock on a nearly nonexistent market is worthless. Right now, it's more valuable to Qualcomm to grow the market as quickly as possible. They have more to gain by rapid growth than they'd lose through lack of exclusivity.

From Microsoft's perspective, Windows/ARM has got to rank up there with Windows Phone, in terms of the lack of return on investment.

I found the window ARM machines much to expensive for what they were

Again, this is Qualcomm being too greedy. They failed to appreciate that you first have to create a market and demand for your products, before you can jack up the price. Another potential selling point of Windows/ARM is better perf/$, because their SoCs are smaller than competing x86 solutions. Imagine if you could get a comparable Window/ARM laptop for $100 or $200 cheaper than the x86 equivalent. That'd probably be what it would take for a lot of people to take a serious look at them. Otherwise, why not just stick with the tried & true x86 path?

 

[bit_user]

Well, regardless of one's opinion of Windows on ARM, the correct title of the article has the missing "exclusivity," as shown when you click on the link. The title on the forums doesn't make logical sense.

The article has the correct title. What often happens is that there will be some mistake in the title that's caught & corrected early, but they'll only update the article title and won't go back to fix the forum thread.

Anyone who read the article will have seen the correct title and understand the situation, so I suggest you shouldn't worry about it. The likelihood of the forum thread getting fixed is very low, in my experience. Within days, this comments thread will fade into obscurity and there will be plenty of new content to fuel new concerns.

 

[TerryLaze]

Again, this is Qualcomm being too greedy. They failed to appreciate that you first have to create a market and demand for your products, before you can jack up the price.

How can you tell that this is down to greed? What are your clues?
Arm cpus that can run windows have to be more powerful to cope with the overhead also making them cuts into the amount of cheaper better selling normal arm cpus, so they lose money from, at least, two sides here.
Also you first have to build up an economy of scale, before you can offer good prices.

I bet, and this is pure speculation of course, the only reason they did it in the first place was because they got a really good incentive from MS and they called it exclusivity because it sounds better than "nobody else was game" .

 

[bit_user]

Arm cpus that can run windows have to be more powerful to cope with the overhead

Overhead, if running x86 apps. For natively-compiled apps, which would include web browsers, MS Office, and other key productivity apps, there's no overhead.

also making them cuts into the amount of cheaper better selling normal arm cpus,

Huh?

Also you first have to build up an economy of scale, before you can offer good prices.

"It takes money to make money", as the saying goes. I'm suggesting they should operate their laptop initiative at zero (or even slightly negative) margins, for a few years, until the market reaches critical mass.

They did this with VR, and although the VR market didn't take off for other reasons, it shows how cheap Qualcomm can sell decent SoCs when they want to.

 

[Sleepy_Hollowed]

I think Microsoft might be a bit too late on this one, especially for those that are about to jump ship to mac/linux due to their "AI on everything" madness they have coming for Windows 11 and 12.

I'll take battery life over Wintel for portables, and if I want a desktop replacement I can get AMD for general processing/gaming with nicer TDP/battery, if they're ever allowed to release those more often since Intel has exclusivity contracts.

 

[subspruce]

In order to be a "thing of the past" isn't there some requirement to have "been a thing" in the first place. I was not aware that this format was widely accepted enough to make a drop in the bucket, much less to be missed. I honestly cannot imagine how an experience on an OS with the overhead that Windows requires being particularly pleasant on a mobile phone/tablet chip. Heck the kneecapped Atom and such processors were obsolete before they were physically made....perhaps I am missing something?

This is why Microsoft seriously needs to spend a long amount of time optimising their next release, but they did a big mistake by hiring what I (wrongfully or not) assume are interns because of the drop in features, settings (and their intersectional behavior handling), and efficiency

 

[subspruce]

Hopefully that means less bloat.

Windows 12 is rumored to require 8GB of RAM, that means I'm doubtful about the optimisation and bloat reduction part.

If the leaks are anything to go by, Windows 12 is set to release this June with a more mobile-friendly UI and greater optimization for ARM.

I'd really like to see this seperated from desktop with some sort of tablet mode distinction like in Windows 10. Did you know what happened the last time tablet UI was pushed onto desktop? (Windows 8)

 

[ThomasKinsley]

Windows 12 is rumored to require 8GB of RAM, that means I'm doubtful about the optimisation and bloat reduction part.

That sounds about right.

I'd really like to see this seperated from desktop with some sort of tablet mode distinction like in Windows 10. Did you know what happened the last time tablet UI was pushed onto desktop? (Windows 8)

It's not that bad. The time, search and weather are pushed up to the top while the taskbar is strictly dedicated for apps. IMHO, it actually suits the desktop.