News Windows seemingly lost 400 million users in the past three years — official Microsoft statements show hints of a shrinking user base

[stonecarver]

You are really overestimating the price of a PC my dude. You can get an AIO for under 600 from a big box store and if you want to drop to 8GB of RAM and add 8 yourself you can go sub 400. As for gaming you do not require $3000 for a gaming PC. You can get it done for under 1000 depending on what you want and under 2000 for 1440p

I whole hearty agree you can buy a PC for less if your willing to shop. I was putting myself if the eyes of the average PC user who is facing moving up to Windows 11 and does a google search " Dell " and the very first choice from Dell is $799.

Regardless of what we can find out there as far as price Windows 11 still requires a cost for the free OS not in the OS in and by itself but in the required hardware to run it.

That's where I'm coming from as to why Windows 11 seems to be loosing it's users.

No other Microsoft OS from the past required new hardware.

https://www.dell.com/en-us/shop/cty...ngR1OevGHh_vXjz1DkcaAtC4EALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds

 

[LordVile]

I whole hearty agree you can buy a PC for less if your willing to shop. I was putting myself if the eyes of the average PC user who is facing moving up to Windows 11 and does a google search " Dell " and the very first choice from Dell is $799.

Regardless of what we can find out there as far as price Windows 11 still requires a cost for the free OS not in the OS in and by itself but in the required hardware to run it.

That's where I'm coming from as to why Windows 11 seems to be loosing it's users.

No other Microsoft OS from the past required new hardware.

https://www.dell.com/en-us/shop/cty...ngR1OevGHh_vXjz1DkcaAtC4EALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds

I literally went to the website of a big box store, put in 16GB of RAM and searched. Go to HP, home PC, first one is a 600 AIO, go to dell the first tower that isn’t Alienware is 500.

Literally vista and 7 required new hardware from XP. 8 required a tablet.

 

[stonecarver]

My posting was an opinion as to why Microsoft is not hitting there target of expected Windows 11 users.

Not about what a new PC will run you. Yes buying a new PC if one looks and shops around there are deals. But it keeps getting whisked over a new PC needs to be bought.

Can I ask what your opinion LordVile is as to why Microsoft is not hitting there target users of Windows 11.

 

[ezst036]

Tuxedo laptops cost more at base than a MacBook and aren’t guaranteed to still be in business in 18 months. You also get os updates for years after it doesn’t get the new version

System76 is not likely to go out in 18 months. They seem to be the most popular provider of their type around.

Besides, that's alright that they cost a little more, having a longer support window than just 5 years like what Apple offers has value. Even knowing what the support window will even be because its honestly posted, be it 5, 6, or 7 years also has value.

Keeping it a secret is just bad customer service, until "Apple feels like it".

 

[LordVile]

System76 is not likely to go out in 18 months. They seem to be the most popular provider of their type around.

Besides, that's alright that they cost a little more, having a longer support window than just 5 years like what Apple offers has value. Even knowing what the support window will even be because its honestly posted, be it 5, 6, or 7 years also has value.

Keeping it a secret is just bad customer service, until "Apple feels like it".

They also start at 1.5x the cost of a MacBook with a worse spec and an OS they don’t even develop for.

Apple offers way more than 5 years, I have a MacBook Air in the house from 2018 which is a fairly weak machine, it’s been on its last legs now for a while. It’s currently 7 Years old and on last years OS, still supported and will continue being supported for at least another year and that’s through an instruction set change. Tahoe is currently supporting the M1 macs meaning that at a minimum they’re getting 8 years.

It’s not really a secret bud

 

[ezst036]

Tahoe is currently supporting the M1 macs meaning that at a minimum they’re getting 8 years.

It’s not really a secret bud

"meaning?"

That's called a guess, bud. You were forced to make a guess because its a secret. This is what something looks like when its not a secret:

https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/lifecycle/products/windows-7

Windows 11 Home and Pro - Microsoft Lifecycle

Windows 11 Home and Pro follows the Modern Lifecycle Policy.

learn.microsoft.com

Never seen anything like it on Apple.com in reference to the machines that will be on the chopping block. This third URL, while not the most optimal link I could find in a few short minutes searching, does make clear from Microsoft themselves that anything without TPM2.0 will not be supported. Over the last some years of that whole controversy I did see better ones from MS. Direct from MS:

https://techcommunity.microsoft.com...-a-secure-and-future-proof-windows-11/4339066

In any case, Microsoft was very public about what was going onto the chopping block those without TPM2.0. Never seen anything like it from Apple.com. Please show me some Apple.com URLs. Thank you.

 

[LordVile]

"meaning?"

That's called a guess, bud. You were forced to make a guess because its a secret. This is what something looks like when its not a secret:

https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/lifecycle/products/windows-7

Windows 11 Home and Pro - Microsoft Lifecycle

Windows 11 Home and Pro follows the Modern Lifecycle Policy.

learn.microsoft.com

Never seen anything like it on Apple.com in reference to the machines that will be on the chopping block. This third URL, while not the most optimal link I could find in a few short minutes searching, does make clear from Microsoft themselves that anything without TPM2.0 will not be supported. Over the last some years of that whole controversy I did see better ones from MS. Direct from MS:

https://techcommunity.microsoft.com/blog/windows-itpro-blog/tpm-2-0-–-a-necessity-for-a-secure-and-future-proof-windows-11/4339066

In any case, Microsoft was very public about what was going onto the chopping block those without TPM2.0. Never seen anything like it from Apple.com. Please show me some Apple.com URLs. Thank you.

You are aware that you can just look at the past and what rhythm something follows to inform future plans right? Also the W11 requirements now aren’t what they originally were for example you don’t require TPM to run W11. You just don’t. You can just get a bootable medium and install it. It’s not officially supported by Microsoft but they’ll still push updates out to you and you can still run it as normal minus a few security features. So I guess they’re not so open about their “key requirements” that you don’t have to have.

Ultimately even through an instruction set change we’ve seen you get a minimum of 7 years support on Mac even with underpowered hardware, that is the bare minimum support you will get with a new laptop from them. It could end up being longer than this but it won’t be shorter.

 

[USAFRet]

Ultimately even through an instruction set change we’ve seen you get a minimum of 7 years support on Mac even with underpowered hardware,

And thats the same with Win 11 requirements.

8th gen Intel chips are from 2017. So pretty much anything in the last 8 years.

 

[Daelith]

You don't add 8gb. You replace the existing 8 by a 16 gb kit. Potential stability or induced lag otherwise. Always buy a complete ram kit and replace it by another.

 

[ezst036]

You are aware that you can just look at the past and what rhythm something follows to inform future plans right? Also the W11 requirements now aren’t what they originally were for example you don’t require TPM to run W11. You just don’t. You can just get a bootable medium and install it. It’s not officially supported by Microsoft but they’ll still push updates out to you and you can still run it as normal minus a few security features. So I guess they’re not so open about their “key requirements” that you don’t have to have.

Ultimately even through an instruction set change we’ve seen you get a minimum of 7 years support on Mac even with underpowered hardware, that is the bare minimum support you will get with a new laptop from them. It could end up being longer than this but it won’t be shorter.

Ultimately, any claims cannot be independently verified. No straight forward apple.com links displaying said information have been provided.

Supposition has been requested as a replacement for out-in-the-sunlight company announcements.

You are aware that you can just look at the past and what rhythm something follows to inform future plans right?

I am aware that the single proper word that sums this up is "secret", yes. Apple does not provide it so I or you have to construct it on our own. That's terrible customer service that it cannot be independently verified.

 

[LordVile]

Ultimately, any claims cannot be independently verified. No straight forward apple.com links displaying said information have been provided.

Literally just go on Wikipedia which will tell you the latest release of an OS and the devices supported on it.

Supposition has been requested as a replacement for out-in-the-sunlight company announcements.


I am aware that the single proper word that sums this up is "secret", yes. Apple does not provide it so I or you have to construct it on our own. That's terrible customer service that it cannot be independently verified.

I suppose there are two types of people.

1. Those who can extrapolate from incomplete data

 

[LordVile]

And thats the same with Win 11 requirements.

8th gen Intel chips are from 2017. So pretty much anything in the last 8 years.

You can run W11 on anything though you just can’t have all the security features enabled. I don’t get the big deal tbh. With windows you can install W11 if you really want to and Mac you get support for longer than the likely lifespan of the laptop because let’s face it, not many people are buying mac desktops.

 

[USAFRet]

You can run W11 on anything though you just can’t have all the security features enabled. I don’t get the big deal tbh. With windows you can install W11 if you really want to and Mac you get support for longer than the likely lifespan of the laptop because let’s face it, not many people are buying mac desktops.

I was referring to official support for W11. Not workarounds.

 

[LordVile]

I was referring to official support for W11. Not workarounds.

Not really a workaround and is recognised by Microsoft themselves

 

[logainofhades]

Not really a workaround and is recognised by Microsoft themselves

The average person is not going to know how to install Windows on an unsupported system.

 

[LordVile]

The average person is not going to know how to install Windows on an unsupported system.

They can’t use google to copy a line into the command window or doesn’t know someone who can?

 

[logainofhades]

They can’t use google to copy a line into the command window or doesn’t know someone who can?

We run across people that ask questions on here, on a daily basis, that could be answered with a simple google search. Where I work, most of the people are as PC illiterate as they come. Even some engineers don't know much beyond the software they use on a daily basis. What we might find easy, you may as well be asking them to speak Klingon.

 

[LordVile]

We run across people that ask questions on here, on a daily basis, that could be answered with a simple google search. Where I work, most of the people are as PC illiterate as they come. Even some engineers don't know much beyond the software they use on a daily basis. What we might find easy, you may as well be asking them to speak Klingon.

But how many of those people are trying to install W11 themselves anyway rather than just buying a new computer?

 

[logainofhades]

Many don't want to buy a new one, especially in this economy, yet Microsoft is forcing said people into doing so, with their silly hardware requirements. 8th gen Intel isn't really any different than 6th or 7th gen, and Zen+ is just a better optimized Zen 1.

I had Windows 10 running fine on a Core 2 quad based Xeon, at one point, and it was just fine for regular web browsing at the time. Actually used it for running netflix to my tv for awhile.

 

[ezst036]

I suppose there are two types of people.

1. Those who can extrapolate from incomplete data

I can't rely on some random person's extrapolation as if that rises in sufficiency to officially published (as opposed to secretive) future cut off dates from a manufacturer from their website. Such as, apple.com.

We're stuck here with this fact: the claims cannot be independently verified. We do not know when Apple will drop support until they drop it. Its a secret. When they feel like it.

 

[LordVile]

I can't rely on some random person's extrapolation as if that rises in sufficiency to officially published (as opposed to secretive) future cut off dates from a manufacturer from their website. Such as, apple.com.

We're stuck here with this fact: the claims cannot be independently verified. We do not know when Apple will drop support until they drop it. Its a secret. When they feel like it.

Bud you can’t rely on officially published cut offs either as they are subject to change. You don’t know if your PC will support W12 or not. You don’t know how long W11 will be supported either. You don’t know how long your hardware will be supported by the manufacturer with drivers. W10 was supposed to be “the last versions of windows” remember? I know the minimum about of time a Mac will be supported for based on the past and how Apple cycles device support. I know a Mac will get at least 5 years of OS support and that last OS will get at least 3 years of updates. I know an iPhone will get at least 7 years of OS support and then that OS will get security updates for another couple of years as they update the OS that some devices are stuck on for a bit. Both of which are generally over the time where getting a new device is worth it. It’s not like nvidia where they intentionally brick good hardware.

 

[RedBaron616]

I have an ongoing rub right now with a friend of mine. I've already had my Linux box for several years and they just bought a new Mac. I sometimes get a kick out of telling them that once Apple drops them like a bad habit and eliminates their support, my already supported computer will remain supported for the entirety of their support window and keep right on going.

I sometimes even double down and say to them "When you buy your next mac, my support is going to outlive that one as well!" Both of them!

Fun times watching Linux whip the pants off of both Windows and Apple.

It hasn't always been this way because my old girlfriend had a Mac for a good number of years and it took every major update without any upgrading. Granted, it didn't fly, but it worked and did what she needed to do on it, for college papers even. I don't know if that recently changed, but I was impressed because it would have taken 2 or even 3 Windows computers (or major upgrades) to accomplish the same.

 

[logainofhades]

For the price of said Mac, you could build a Windows PC that could easily lasted just as long, if not longer. Look how long people held onto their Sandy Bridge PC's. Many still holding onto their Haswell rigs, and probably would continue to do so, if not for Win 11's hardware requirements. They are still fast enough for what most people use a PC for these days.

 

[TerryLaze]

For the price of said Mac, you could build a Windows PC that could easily lasted just as long, if not longer. Look how long people held onto their Sandy Bridge PC's. Many still holding onto their Haswell rigs, and probably would continue to do so, if not for Win 11's hardware requirements. They are still fast enough for what most people use a PC for these days.

I still have a 4:3 CRT TV that still fully works.... there is just no signals for it, what's your point?!
At some point you have to let go of fully working stuff because the world around you (the device) changes too much for it to still be used the same way it was used 10+ years ago.

You can't expect them to still beam analogue signals for your old TVs and you can't expect them to not use newer tech just because your working equipment doesn't have it.

 

[logainofhades]

The point is unnecessary e-waste, caused by Microsoft. You can still use said CRT TV, with an adapter, so yes it can still get a signal. It doesn't need security updates either.

Tell me how a 4th gen rig or even 6th or 7th gen rig are not still perfectly usable for general use? Or a gen 1 ryzen for that matter? You can't because they are. Also many in other countries cannot afford newer tech.