News 'Windows Update Restored' Site Provides Updates for Classic Windows Versions

[Admin]

A project dubbed Windows Update Restored aims to provide online update services for abandoned versions of the OS. Windows 95, 98 (and SE), and NT 4.0 updates are now ready.

'Windows Update Restored' Site Provides Updates for Classic Windows Versions : Read more

 

[COLGeek]

What can possibly go wrong with this?

While interesting, it is time to let these OSes go.

 

[mitch074]

What can possibly go wrong with this?

While interesting, it is time to let these OSes go.

Retro computing is a thing. A marginal one, indeed, but still. And these old OSes didn't have slip streaming like Win2000/XP and more recent that allowed creating "final" ISOs with all published fixes integrated.

 

[Friesiansam]

What can possibly go wrong with this?

While interesting, it is time to let these OSes go.

I strongly suspect most people using this service, will be retro computing enthusiasts, who will be fully aware of the risks of using very outdated OSes.

 

[USAFRet]

I strongly suspect most people using this service, will be retro computing enthusiasts, who will be fully aware of the risks of using very outdated OSes.

Most, yes.
But not all.
And those others are those who are the problem.

 

[ex_bubblehead]

And as this isn't Microsoft sanctioned just who is going to be vetting these updates to ensure nothing nefarious is going on? Bad idea all the way around.

 

[ezst036]

Seeing screenshots like these brings back fond memories. It's kind of sad in a way.

Often times with W95/98 it was the little things. I liked the extension packs and stuff that had extra sounds, and I also liked the power packs that would offer more tweak settings. Playing games was fun, browsing the internet was fun, seeing those old websites with the weird and funky html banners, it was all fun. Microsoft was there to help, Windows was there to add ease, and nothing(or very little) got in anybody's way.

I don't know about what everybody else thinks, but it seems to me like the browser wars is really where Microsoft went off the rails. As a full time Linux user now, there's probably always going to be a part of me (but back then) that misses those old 95/98 days, and even 2000, which was the last MS operating system I cared to use. Microsoft stopped being fun to use like they used to be.

Steven Vaughan-Nichols has a good write up about the Netscape situation: https://www.zdnet.com/home-and-office/networking/how-ie-really-beat-netscape/

Maybe Microsoft always was this way, but it seems to some people like me that while they were competitive, which is one thing and that's not a problem, but when they crossed over into being anti-competitive they just became bullies. That's just their corporate culture now. It shines through on so many different things they offer now, like Windows Update in that screenshot above, which used to be somewhat clunky but it was never dreaded. I did used to look at Windows Update and think to myself "wow, they are trying to be helpful, they are trying to make this even easier. That's great. It's not quite working as it should yet, but I'm looking forward to when they get there". Then later on Microsoft just continued until they're the MS we know today, best (probably) exemplified by the TPM 2.0 controversy.

Everything that MS is today, TPM 2.0 is - the - statement. Microsoft doesn't just bully their business rivals, they bully their own customers. Windows Update is not helpful, it strikes fear into people. It sucks. WU isn't what it used to be.

Microsoft! We are not your competition we're users! Stop treating people this way! Stop bullying us!

And that's why for the last 15 years they keep losing marketshare. They have deserved every -1% loss, it's been well-fought-for. And Microsoft is to this very minute, working as hard as they can to lose another -1% tomorrow. I really hope they more -1%s. They're adding up quite nicely.

Maybe when Microsoft only has 40% of the OS market left, that will be the wallop they need across their head to wake up and realize what they've done. I just don't know what its going to take. They're down below 70% now and you would think that would be enough.

 

[Friesiansam]

Most, yes.
But not all.
And those others are those who are the problem.

I shouldn't think "those others" even bother with updates, let alone use the site in the article.

 

[USAFRet]

I shouldn't think "those others" even bother with updates, let alone use the site in the article.

And this is how we got the WannaCry virus.

 

[Amdlova]

That good news who want a retro pc updated

 

[Ogotai]

might have to take a close look at this page, have quite a few old games that i might want to make a comp for that i even still have old hardware for. might be fun to see if my old K6 3 or K7s,and FX 60 still boot

 

[Vorador2]

This is for the rare breed of retro gamers that want to play online with old games that don't run on modern OS. The very few professional computers that still run these old oses are almost always isolated from internet access and already patched by sideloading the updates.

 

[bit_user]

What can possibly go wrong with this?

While interesting, it is time to let these OSes go.

I understand the risks, but there's a very real way in which simply deleting all of our old operating systems is like burning down libraries of paper books. The software written to run on these operating systems has historical value and does not always work properly in emulators. There are other historical interests in the actual windows software and updates, as well.

I wish the Library of Congress would take a static snapshot of Windows releases and their update repos (which would have to be negotiated with Microsoft, of course). It's another question how you would be able to use them, since they're copyrighted works. However, libraries are full of copyrighted works and so that wouldn't seem to be a total impediment in merely taking a snapshot. I guess the terms-of-use would have to be negotiated with Microsoft.

I think it's a step too far for the Library of Congress to actually run a site like this. That opens up a can of worms.

 

[bit_user]

And as this isn't Microsoft sanctioned just who is going to be vetting these updates to ensure nothing nefarious is going on?

I had the same concern, but if you can find a trusted source of the checksums and file sizes, then you can verify they haven't been tampered with.

That does depend somewhat on the strength of the checksum, but it's extremely non-trivial to edit a file inside a compressed archive in a way that doesn't alter either the checksum or archive's size.

 

[USAFRet]

The software written to run on these operating systems has historical value and does not always work properly in emulators. There are other historical interests in the actual windows software and updates, as well.

I'd be interested to know what software is:
- Limited to these old OSs
- Not been replaced by something better
- Also not proprietary corporate software
- Would not run well in a walled off VM and the old OS

Any specific examples?

 

[bit_user]

I'd be interested to know what software is:
- Limited to these old OSs
- Not been replaced by something better
- Also not proprietary corporate software
- Would not run well in a walled off VM and the old OS

Any specific examples?

Not being a computer historian, I'm not best qualified to answer these questions. I only know such people exist and find their mission compelling.

 

[USAFRet]

Not being a computer historian, I'm not best qualified to answer these questions. I only know such people exist and find their mission compelling.

And I would expect those people already have the last 'updates' saved somewhere.

 

[bit_user]

And I would expect those people already have the last 'updates' saved somewhere.

I have no idea, but the point is that institutions should exist to maintain this history because individuals "age out".

Given how systemically important this software has become to our society, over the past 30 years, it would seem well within the LoC's mission and purview to maintain such an archive.

I did a quick web search, which suggests they already have some sort of OS archive:

"More than likely, instances of restoration will happen as researchers come to the Library to experience files in their original environments, on old computers with old operating systems."

Tracking Digital Collections at the Library of Congress, from Donor to Repository | The Signal

When Kathleen O’Neill talks about digital collections, she slips effortlessly into the info-tech language that software engineers, librarians, archivists and other information technology professionals use to communicate with each other. O’Neill, a senior archives specialist in the Library of...

blogs.loc.gov

The question is whether it's just some guy there who maintains a collection of old PCs, or if it's actually an organized effort to archive all of the OS releases and updates so you can reconstruct an OS at a specific point in time.

 

[Ogotai]

I'd be interested to know what software is:
- Limited to these old OSs
- Not been replaced by something better
- Also not proprietary corporate software
- Would not run well in a walled off VM and the old OS

older games, for example. my mom. and to some extent, myself, have games that will NOT run in anything newer then win7, and they dont want to run with any extent of compatibility mode, and getting them to run in a xp VP, as i have found, is a PITA, but that could also just be partly to my lack of know how to use a VM, as i havent really tried to use a vm before.

 

[USAFRet]

older games, for example. my mom. and to some extent, myself, have games that will NOT run in anything newer then win7, and they dont want to run with any extent of compatibility mode, and getting them to run in a xp VP, as i have found, is a PITA, but that could also just be partly to my lack of know how to use a VM, as i havent really tried to use a vm before.

And I have run some older games in an older Windows OS, in a VM. WinXP or older.
And they are generally OK.

I did not include an reference to 'games' in my list above, because they are ephemeral.
There are a LOT of game platforms that have gone by the wayside.

Where is the archive for all those?
But does anyone really care?

 

[Ogotai]

And I have run some older games in an older Windows OS, in a VM. WinXP or older.
And they are generally OK.

well i have had issues, but as i said, could be due to my lack of using a VM up till now.

There are a LOT of game platforms that have gone by the wayside.

and some of those have come back, like the NES and Snes minis. as well as the genesis

Where is the archive for all those?
But does anyone really care?

the archive for those ? my shelf, and closet

those that would like to play them again, probably care

 

[USAFRet]

the archive for those ? my shelf, and closet

those that would like to play them again, probably care

Actually, I misspoke.
Not the archive...rather the "updates" for the operating systems.
As this article is referring to.

But whatever.

 

[palladin9479]

I'd be interested to know what software is:
- Limited to these old OSs
- Not been replaced by something better
- Also not proprietary corporate software
- Would not run well in a walled off VM and the old OS

Any specific examples?

I do a ton of retro computing, to the extent that I have a AMD K6-2 system setup complete with nVidia TNT2, SB-Live and Windows 98SE. There are a ton of games that absolutely do not play well inside VM's, DosBox has come a long way for DOS era stuff but anything from the late 90's with DX5/6 is going to need era appropriate equipment to run. VM's completely fail to emulate the low level hardware correctly for stuff to work right. Even something like Bochs/86Box has issues getting stuff right on modern hardware.

Nobody and I mean nobody is using a retro system for a daily driver, none of them are going to be using an archival site for system updates. Instead this is setup as a one-stop-shop to get needed updates to a retro OS, whereas before we had to rely google-fu and hopefully get a clean copy.

Retro computing is very similar to those folks who keep a classic car in the garage for the occasional sunday drive. They take it out, shine it up, spend a morning tuning it and then drive it around and enjoy the memories before putting it back up.

 

[Ogotai]

Not the archive...rather the "updates" for the operating systems.
As this article is referring to.

its quite possible, i have those files on my " drivers " hdd that i keep adding to.

i have drivers for the voodoo 2 and voodoo 3 still on there......

 

[NeoMorpheus]

Seeing screenshots like these brings back fond memories. It's kind of sad in a way.

Often times with W95/98 it was the little things. I liked the extension packs and stuff that had extra sounds, and I also liked the power packs that would offer more tweak settings. Playing games was fun, browsing the internet was fun, seeing those old websites with the weird and funky html banners, it was all fun. Microsoft was there to help, Windows was there to add ease, and nothing(or very little) got in anybody's way.

I don't know about what everybody else thinks, but it seems to me like the browser wars is really where Microsoft went off the rails. As a full time Linux user now, there's probably always going to be a part of me (but back then) that misses those old 95/98 days, and even 2000, which was the last MS operating system I cared to use. Microsoft stopped being fun to use like they used to be.

Steven Vaughan-Nichols has a good write up about the Netscape situation: https://www.zdnet.com/home-and-office/networking/how-ie-really-beat-netscape/

Maybe Microsoft always was this way, but it seems to some people like me that while they were competitive, which is one thing and that's not a problem, but when they crossed over into being anti-competitive they just became bullies. That's just their corporate culture now. It shines through on so many different things they offer now, like Windows Update in that screenshot above, which used to be somewhat clunky but it was never dreaded. I did used to look at Windows Update and think to myself "wow, they are trying to be helpful, they are trying to make this even easier. That's great. It's not quite working as it should yet, but I'm looking forward to when they get there". Then later on Microsoft just continued until they're the MS we know today, best (probably) exemplified by the TPM 2.0 controversy.

Everything that MS is today, TPM 2.0 is - the - statement. Microsoft doesn't just bully their business rivals, they bully their own customers. Windows Update is not helpful, it strikes fear into people. It sucks. WU isn't what it used to be.

Microsoft! We are not your competition we're users! Stop treating people this way! Stop bullying us!

And that's why for the last 15 years they keep losing marketshare. They have deserved every -1% loss, it's been well-fought-for. And Microsoft is to this very minute, working as hard as they can to lose another -1% tomorrow. I really hope they more -1%s. They're adding up quite nicely.

Maybe when Microsoft only has 40% of the OS market left, that will be the wallop they need across their head to wake up and realize what they've done. I just don't know what its going to take. They're down below 70% now and you would think that would be enough.

You should read about how MS killed BeOS and robbed us from a truly marvelous OS (at the time).

I'd be interested to know what software is:
- Limited to these old OSs
- Not been replaced by something better
- Also not proprietary corporate software
- Would not run well in a walled off VM and the old OS

Any specific examples?

Funny you ask, I bumped into a computer at work thats running pure DOS because they have an old parts database that wont run on anything but and cant be replaced because the company that wrote it died a while ago.