Windows Vista a reason to buy ECC memory?

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Again, that is after your posts implied that I was flawed in my thinking that they should try to be efficent in their programming, and that I should want an OS that uses more power.
"I mean, why develop an OS that actually uses all the power these new systems have? Who does MS think they are, actually utilizing my processor power and memory? Those bastards!."

I do not mean to tell you what you want in an OS. However, they can achieve the same thing as they are with Vista with lower requirements if they put the effort into it.

I would think that most poeple would want their OS to use the minimum amount of resources for running the PC, in order to provide the most resources for actual programs. Apparently I am mistaken there.
 
My whole point here is that some people have a bit of an idealistic view of M$, and that they could lower the requirements.

I have also said that I do not plan to run out and buy it, cause I don't need it. I will get it eventually, as an enthusiast. I may also buy ECC eventually, but not becuase of Vista, but becuase it is very useful to have in large memory systems.

I did not tell anyone not to buy it, or that it was going to be a bad OS.
 
I would think that most poeple would want their OS to use the minimum amount of resources for running the PC, in order to provide the most resources for actual programs.
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That would depend on what they use their PCs for and exactly how much resources their PCs have. If you have a system with a massive amount of RAM and a near 5 GHz dual core processor, then running Windows Vista isn't really going to create many problems for most people. There have been studies that show that most people don't do heavy video editing or extreme gaming and so they really don't care what is going on with their OS as long as they can listen to music while chatting on AIM and writing e-mail.
 
You are very right about most people (Probably upwards of 80%). I was more or less targeting the more techical people such as those that hang out here that are always trying to get the absolute most out of their system. I should not have said most people and should have been more specific, since most have neither a clue nor an inclination to care about the difference.
 
Hi, it is my first post here. So, please bear with me.

I am in the middle of process of building my new PC, which I want to be as stable and long-lasting as possible (will probably ran the Windows' VISTA when available). It will be based on:
* AMD Athlon 64 X2 3800+ Dual-Core CPU
* ASUS A8N-SLi Premium M/B
* ASUS "EN6600GT/TD/128" nVidia GeForce 6600GT 128MB GDDR3 128-bit DVI TV-Out PCI-Express VGA card
* Seagate 300GB Barracuda 7200.9 16MB Cache S-ATA II NCQ HDD

I've already bought the CoolerMaster:
* Centurion 532 Case and
* "RS-550-ACLY" 550W Power Supply

My question naturally is about RAM (Dual Channel DDR RAM Bus 400/PC3200). I have not decided yet if I should buy 2 GB (2 sticks X 1 GB) or 1 GB (2 sticks X 512 MB) is enough.
The quality brands of RAM most popular (here in Thailand) are:
* Corsair TWINX XMS (1GB, 2GB)
* Corsair Module Kit (1GB)
* GEIL Value Series (512MB, 1GB, 2GB)
* Kingston (512MB, 1GB)

All above mentioned brands have a lifetime warranty. None of them are ECC.
Will the Kingston RAM be good enough? Or, should I go for the Corsair brand, which is ~30-40% more expensive. The price for GEIL brand is in between, the same as its latency.

Appreciate your advice.

P.S. I don't plan to O/S my system.
 
It is because 95% of 'problems' with Microsofts OS's in the past have been caused by machines with ****ed RAM.

The Windows OS is, and of itself, not all that bad. I've rarely have problems with it even over 11+ years, because I tested my RAM with Norton Diagnostics back in the DOS days, and MemTest86+ and Prime95 in the Windows days.

The people blame the OS for crashing and know little, if anything, about the hardware (or the OS for that matter 😛), and just run their faulty RAM ignorant to the problems it is causing over 6 months. It could be argued that people like that are defective, just like the RAM in their PCs. However they can be 'fixed' (cough), just like the supply of faulty RAM can be fixed.

The fact Microsoft do not force decent RAM tests on machines every 90 days surprises me, they could code it right into the Kernel and just let it run while idle. Perhaps delay it on notebooks if running from battery power, but nag the user every 2 hours until it sinks into their defective mind "Faulty Hardware = Corrupted Software = Crashes and Bad Data". They have no right to complain documents are corrupt when they did nothing to stop it, especially if the OS is reminding them every 90 days and saying "Look your RAM is ****ed, I am not letting you login until you get your shit together user".

Have you any idea how much money this would save corporations, and governments, etc a year on a global scale ?, or what said corporations would pay for it ? :twisted: :lol: 8) (bling, bling is all I can say, so I am getting into coding & patents. 11 years of hardware has taught me people are just sheep that spend, or rather throw, money at problems). Hopefully that money will be heading my way. (Just look at what Peter Norton did, he sold his business and walked away with millions of dollars. He prob hasn't touched a cursed PC since :wink: ).

Defrag your HDD using all known faulty DIMMs, go ahread, see how many OS files 'change'. (eg: Check MD5/SHA512 hashes on the files before and after).

Doing this over 6+ months, even without the defrags, is going to corrupt files one by one. Files with instructions to be executed that shouldn't be changing.

With more and more RAM in PCs it makes sense to bring it back (they phased out parity in the mid 1980's, or before even, to save a few dollars a machine, ECC these days is far more advanced than parity was back then, and it means the OS can have colour coded failure screens, eg: Red for RAM, Blue for Software, etc).

If ECC is dying it'll try to 'correct' bits that are not actually corrupt and thus cause a hardware related failure, the Operating System is notified of these events and can log and report the failure to the user, aswell as refusing to run until repaired. (Parity couldn't do this because it had only 50% reliable detection methods). Once the RAM is replaced every file for the OS can be MD5/SHA512 checked (takes about 5 minutes on a decent PC for OS only files) and then 'healed' back to uncorrupt files, using known good MD5/SHA512 values and a recovery disk. (Or better yet more advanced than WinRAR Recovery information, but similar mathematically speaking, could be added to each file in the OS, totally idle until required for self-healing purposes.).

Note: I hope to have the chance to be working on said software.

Can't people read ?, They are suggesting it only, and for the above reasons. At least some people here understand MS is making no money from this, in fact if they forced ECC in Vista less people would upgrade to Vista and they'd be worse off. They are doing this for the good of computers everywhere. It should've been done 10 years ago. I find it suprising how many people in these forums lack understanding. What part of "decision to gently recommend ECC memory for computers" do people not understand ?

There is a world of difference between:
- A decision to gently recommend ECC memory for computers
- Forcing people at gunpoint using the worlds, former idle, armies to install ECC memory in their PCs.

Sheeeesh, are people sheep or what ?, (Actually they are, I've said it above).

Even Jesus heavily implied that 'people are sheep', it was just mistranslated over the last 2,000 years I reckon. 😛
 
The only way I could make M$ OSes run flawlessly (or as close to flawlessly as you can get an MS OS), was by unloading and removing unnecessary bloat: active desktop, WMP, IE, MS File and Printer sharing, services (on those Windows versions that used services), system sounds...

If you do that, then you can have a MS system running for days on end without a crash - and being actually responsive. Yup, even Win9x.

However, something that originally required a few minutes of tinkering now takes me more than an hour on a retail copy of WinXP:

Remove the Crap.

Themes (I found Luna... insulting), restoration (2Gb of hard disk used for... restoring files after a, say, virus infection that infected those same files?), sound (shut the damn sound off!), unused services (why would I need a card reader service?), wizards (I know what to make of my USB key, thank you), caches (duplicate all DLLs? What, because it would load faster from that area of the disk rather than from %SYSTEM32% directory?), Alexa spyware (nice one), WMP (you can't configue it, the UI is unintuitive, and it hogs resources - moreover, Media Player 6.4 is more capable, lighter and easier to configure), IE (Firefox! Opera!), to name but a few (the Windows tour, the Windows Agent, the Windows music samples, etc.). That is, considering WinXP fits on a single CD, quite long. I shudder to think what I'll need to remove considering Vista comes on a DVD...
 
Hey I have a brilliant idea, why not just keep windows XP and not bother with Vista at all? It's not like you really need it, come on now. Why spend all that money when windows XP can do most everything you want it to.

-Mark
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Agreed. There will be interesting junk that Vista can do, but it is not a necessity. Games made after the release of Vista will be able to run on XP and Vista for a while after Vista comes out. The only serious immediate difference, in my opinion, is the 64 bit thing. XP Pro has that anyway, so. Vista is also supposed to have better anti-virus software, which seems kinda nice, but why not just get Norton or something instead? I'll buy it eventually, but not the moment it is released.

On another note: I read just yesterday that Microsoft Office 2007 is estimated to cost $499. Wow.
 
Business: I swear business volume licensing is cheaper.

For home users: Can't the formerly 'Academic' (But still labelled as such) version be legally purchased by any 'home / SOHO' user now for cheap ?, even non students - I think they changed the rules on it to compete ages ago.

I still run MS Office 97 with SR2b (or is it SR2c now ?) installed btw. Does everything I need, for graphical stuff I use Jasc Paint Shop Pro 9 (the pre Corel version of PSP). Combined can get any 2D effect in a document I need and still keep file sizes small.

Run Windows XP SP2 + patches, but running Office 97 under WinXP is fine. Even though it isn't running in isolated threads per say. Having WINWORD.EXE and EXCEL.EXE open at the same time forces them to be scheduled to the most available core(s). It loads in like < 2 sec.

For presentations am considering the far more advanced animated 3D diagram capability of CGI animation myself. 8) Even decent HD WMVs compressed (same pause / play, but far more features) look heaps better than PowerPoint.

Animated diagrams are far nicer for technical explanations, as you can demonstate the 'flow' of data/instuctions/whatever as it would actually happen. Only leave want you want to their imagination.

What surprises me the most is that people bitch about Microsoft on forums, like these ones, but none of them have actually sent letters to Microsoft expressing their concerns. I mean if you hate Windows so much just switch to Linux, BSD, MacOS X, OS/2, etc ... What don't you dislike Windows enough to change Operating Systems ?, As for people running the illegal downloaded versions, the ones that come pre-installed with malware Symantec, etc would rather ignore... well you get what you deserve / pay for 😛 - It is because of the pirates people like myself pay ~AU$230 per license for home build machines.

Oddly enough I have almost none of the issues mentioned. Don't like the featres Microsoft are offering by default, turn them off, write them a letter, or change Operating Systems and code your own damn features. Obviously you can all do far better than Microsoft, or your wouldn't be complaining about them would you ?, Surely such people only have the audacity to complain because they can do better than Microsoft ?, Why are you not developing for Linux ?, I'd like to see this 'super perfect OS' people claim they can make. :roll: (ED: It is called SE Linux - Enjoy the user friendly configuration and interfaces for it 😛)
 
There are enough free anti virus softwares around not to have to rely on Microsoft's - I remember the dreadful antivirus they had tried to integrate into DOS 6.2 - software.

Just imagine: an antivirus software upgraded once a month (I'm teasing MS lovers a bit here).

@Tabris: you're right. those bitching about MS' software without doing anything about it should shut up. I have a Win98SE and a WinXP Pro licence, plus Off2000 licence - and through my previous work, I used a Win2k/XP and Off2k3 system. I wrote blog posts and emails to MS - without ever getting an answer - to complain about this or that problem.

You're also right about the student/educational/academic discounts. However, you have to buy it while you're a student or if you're a teacher and keep using it for personal use. You can't use it at work, for example. As for volume licencing, it's cheaper per seat - but you have to buy 25 of them. That's a bit much even for a power home user.

Thus I switched to Linux (Mandriva Linux 2006 Community, 32 and 64-bit versions) for everyday use, and Knoppix for backup/debug/nomadic use.
 
Wow, Windows Vista isn’t even out on the shelves yet and already its raping, pillaging, killing first born children, demonically possessing young kids, mugging old women, sacrificing animals, committing necrophilia and ending life as we know it. At least that is the impression I have of what some people want you to believe.
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Hear hear!

For more shocking evidence of M$'s bloodthirstyishness visit

http://www.gatesfoundation.org/

Could there be a person who is any less evil than Bill Gates? :wink:

Sorry for the late reply :?
 
Considering that only a fraction (and a small one at that) of what Bill makes is going to that foundation, and that it was used several times to push forward MS technology into the hands of people who couldn't afford it (so that, once they get an opportunity to join in the global game, only MS stuff exists for them), I'd say it's an awful perversion of what could have been a really great thing.

That same Bill said that the $100 laptop (Linux powered) was a fraud compared to the $500 Windows CE cell phone. If he really was concerned with giving technology to those who need it, he'd support a product designed by those who need it, and not push forward the only Windows equipped piece of device that would make some minimal sense in these situations. Those cell phones require antennas and power outlets all over the place, while the laptops can operate off a hand crank and in a line of sight wifi network, cost less than the cell phones and do more - in fact, everything a real laptop does except storing huge amounts of data (design specs).

The last study on www.gatesfoundation.org was about high school dropouts. It was made to say that high school in the US isn't interesting enough. How to make it interesting? The answer isn't said out loud, but it's simple: equip with computers - running Windows!
 
Eradicating tuberculosis is cool. If the foundation could use all of its funds in such fundamental fights, I'd have nothing to say against it.

[Troll mode activated]

To fend off those who say I'm a jealous hypocrite (due to my previous post), I'll just say that the guy can't be completely bad, he's fighting tuberculosis. Since this can't be used to promote his softwares, the worst that can be said is that he's using this to get a tax rebate.

[Shutting down troll mode]

But then he'd simply donate, not be an active participant. Even borgs can have soft feelings sometimes...
 
Since system builders will never voluntarily put good memory in their systems, M$ wants them to use ECC.
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Thats what I was saying. Cheap system builders like Emachines use shit memory. If someones system crashes all the time from crappy memory, who does the consumer blame? Microsoft. They don't see the memory chips having tons of errors. They see Microsoft's OS crashing so they assume they're to blame.

I think as long as you use quality memory chips like most people who build their own system do, you won't have a problem.
 
Dear all...

Oh man, 2 sticks of 512 non-ECC PC3200 are already way off lots of people's budget, and if ECC is gonna be more expensive and slower than non-ECC i think i'm gonna stick to XP until everything drops in price.
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Hardly! The 2x512Mb of Geil Value RAM I bought last week cost £50. That's £5 less than the OEM copy of Windows XP I bought when I built the system.

Unless you want uber-RAM for overclocking, RAM is one of the cheaper components of even a mid-range rig. Using my own PC as an example (prices when I built it):

2x512Mb RAM £50
Athlon 3000+ £120
300Gb hard disk £65
Audigy 2 soundcard £30
6800 graphics card £200 And it wasn't even close to top of the range!
Windows £50

In fact, I now regret not spending another £50 and getting 2Gb of RAM to start with.
 
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