Question Winter project upgrade plans for a Ryzen build, and is my PSU good enough? And what cooler?

[RAIDGoblin]

I had a look through the chart in the stickied thread in the PSU sub-forum, and I don't think the GPU I have is on it, so I thought I'd ask (my up to date PC specs are in my signature, and for case photo's follow link to build thread), at the moment I'm running ryzen 3 3200G internal graphics, but I'm upgrading to a ryzen 7 2700X, but no internal graphics means I need a GPU now, I have an old Radion HD7770 card so I'm going to use that for now

I've been testing out the Radion GPU this week, but I still haven't switched to the ryzen 7 yet (due to needing a new cooler first) and while the graphics is not amazing it's still better than the CPU internal graphics, the only strange thing was under graphics load the PC cut out, it only happened once and I haven't been able to recreate it so IDK if the PSU cut out on over-current or if it was just a graphics driver issue since it's an old card, but other than that it's been stable, so my questions are:


Do I need a new PSU for the GPU and CPU upgrade? at first I assumed that I do, but some of the online calculators recon I don't so I got confused (hence coming here to ask the experts)

And, with the many hundreds of coolers on the market, how do I go about shopping for one that will fit in my case, fit AM4 socket and work effectively enough? also any product recommendations (UK availability) would be very welcome


Thanks for any help

Specs;
CPU: AMD Ryzen 3 3200G and stock cooler - GPU: Ryzen CPU internal graphics
Motherboard: Gigabyte B450M Gaming, Micro-ATX
RAM: 2x16GB Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 3000MHz
Storage: 240GB Corsair MP510, M.2 (boot drive for Debian 10), 2x 1TB Seagate BarraCuda (RAID 1)
PSU: 300W SilverStone SST-SX300-B, SFX Seiries, OS: Debian 11, Use: Minecraft, Video/photo editing, Digital art
Build log: https://forums.tomshardware.com/threads/build-log-sleeper-pc-with-raid-1-array.3681817/

 

[Lutfij]

(my up to date PC specs are in my signature, and for case photo's follow link to build thread)
We advise users to include their specs in the thread's body since sig space specs can and will change over time. When that happens, this thread and accompanying suggestions are rendered moot to the end user in the same boat as you're in now.

I've shoehorned your specs into your thread's body.

PSU: 300W SilverStone SST-SX300-B, SFX Seiries,
How old is the PSU in your build?

Why not just update your motherboard BIOS and look into dropping a Ryzen 7 5700G and forgo using a discrete GPU and if your PSU is 3 years old, you get to retain it. PSU's will degrade over time due to wear and tear, just an FYI.

 

[logainofhades]

I would also say a 5700g would be a good idea. You will have better driver support, than your current card, and would not have to upgrade your PSU to do it. As far as cooler goes, you would need to measure what your height limitations are.

 

[RAIDGoblin]

(my up to date PC specs are in my signature, and for case photo's follow link to build thread)
We advise users to include their specs in the thread's body since sig space specs can and will change over time. When that happens, this thread and accompanying suggestions are rendered moot to the end user in the same boat as you're in now.

I've shoehorned your specs into your thread's body.

I hadn't thought of that, sorry, thx for editing it

How old is the PSU in your build?

Why not just update your motherboard BIOS and look into dropping a Ryzen 7 5700G and forgo using a discrete GPU and if your PSU is 3 years old, you get to retain it. PSU's will degrade over time due to wear and tear, just an FYI.

Thanks for the advice

you both make a very good point, that would be the smart thing to do, but the 7 2700X was a gift from a friend who upgraded his PC, he gave it me in the summer and I've been thinking about what to do upgrade wise for a little while. The old GPU has the bonus of analogue outputs so I don't need adaptors or new monitors yet, and I'm thinking of upgrading it some time in the near future, it's a temporary solution if you like, and I guess by the way your talking that the professional opinion is I do need a bigger PSU if I stick with my plan

The 3 3200G, stock cooler and 300W PSU that was new with my build 3 years ago, are destined for a media-centre PC build plan that I saved a smart looking case for a while back, so nothing will be wasted

for the cooler, I have 4 3/4'' from the top of the mobo under the lid, I'm not sure if coolers are measured from the top of the CPU or from the mobo?

 

[--SID--]

The old GPU has the bonus of analogue outputs

The same outputs like your motherboard.

About the PSU: it should be fine. Friend of mine runs an older 300w Silverstone SFX on a i7 + GTX 1650 D6 without any problem for years.

 

[RAIDGoblin]

About the PSU: it should be fine. Friend of mine runs an older 300w Silverstone SFX on a i7 + GTX 1650 D6 without any problem for years.

Ok, interesting to know, with the 3 3200G and the GPU it has been fine under normal use for a week, that one time it cut out could have been graphics drivers

 

[Misgar]

the 7 2700X was a gift from a friend

CPU World shows the 2700X has a 105W TDP so I'd be inclined to go for a mid-range cooler.
https://www.cpu-world.com/CPUs/Zen/AMD-Ryzen 7 2700X.html

I have 4 3/4'' from the top of the mobo under the lid, I'm not sure if coolers are measured from the top of the CPU or from the mobo?

I tend to assume they're measured from the top of the CPU's IHS.

With only 120mm headroom, I'd suggest a low profile design, like the Thermalright SI-100 which is only 100mm (4.0in) high. I'm using one on a Xeon system where the case isn't deep enough for a "proper" cooler. You can get the SI-100 in silver, black or white (the last with pretty lights if you're so inclined) and they're cheap (£21.39).

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Thermalright-SI-100-Cooler-Bearing-technology/dp/B0BL7F4V45?crid=19HEN3RGZWOTU&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.U5i14aUD9z5Y-358xe2GvvCmZjT-8YXFygSpBhgBFf0hSNAc-pLbI8GQctkoiwnI6svuPWEuPyQ7_ju7XGFugJaSVE7YBkNp_jO5pK4QnGq1GXzhJSUOyYdin9jg0I-RbJHVrT-fUZyoaojjWiDPKZGyrhy68WmdkhVLkSj4ycCeZhmCMhE1XyRQwR1CO_CCNYGXrQRr3KrBiejVzVYue5dD6acy_S4bX6mxbmLIQtg.ytu-4b2s0PMZqF9RkiHSaOXRmA6zl4x6PCdo8p76410&dib_tag=se&keywords=Thermalright+SI-100+CPU+Air+Cooler&nsdOptOutParam=true&qid=1732029618&sprefix=thermalright+si-100+cpu+air+cooler,aps,91&sr=8-3&th=1

Unless you're thinking of running a heavy overclock on the 2700X, this 6-heatpipe single fan cooler should cope with 105W. See review which tested up to 113W.
https://wccftech.com/review/the-king-of-top-down-cooling-thermalright-si-100-sff-review/

For more powerful CPUs, I prefer the 7-heatpipe Phantom Spirit or Noctua NH-D15, but these are too big to fit inside your case.

An alternative would be an AIO, e.g. 240mm.

the professional opinion is I do need a bigger PSU if I stick with my plan

It's becoming more difficult to find decent ATX PSUs under 500W these days. I tend to buy Corsair from Amazon or locally from Currys (when they're sensibly priced).

I would not recommend the Corsair CX550 despite having bought a couple for two very old PCs. The CX550 is a cheap lightweight construction, not enough SATA cables, but cheap. Much better is the Corsair RM650. You don't need these power levels, but the Corsair RM series have a longer warranty than the CX.

Looking on Amazon UK, there's a bunch of cheap ATX PSUs starting around 15 quid (Holdfiturn) then CIT, Justop and Ace, but I wouldn't buy any of these unless you're really desperate to save cash. Anything under £50 should be regarded with suspicion. Anything under £25 could make "magic smoke" appear. Unfortunately, quality PSUs aren't cheap (for a good reason).

With a 105W 2700X CPU and an 80W HD7770 GPU, I doubt you'll ever need more than 250W, but if you upgrade the GPU to something more powerful, you might need 350W+. At that point, buying a good quality 650W PSU makes more sense.

Before buying any PSU, look for detailed online reviews on Tom's, etc.

 

[RAIDGoblin]

wow! thanks so much @Misgar for such a detailed reply, you have also shed some light on how cooler effective-ness is measured, I have only ever used stock coolers in my builds before and my only experience of fitting anything else has been when I've built PC for other people and they've done all the choosing and buying so this is something I had no knowledge of, never needed to know LOL, and I didn't realise how much of a complexity minefield it was

With only 120mm headroom, I'd suggest a low profile design, like the Thermalright SI-100 which is only 100mm (4.0in) high. I'm using one on a Xeon system where the case isn't deep enough for a "proper" cooler. You can get the SI-100 in silver, black or white (the last with pretty lights if you're so inclined) and they're cheap (£21.39).

I had fancied the look of a tower cooler (and you can tell from my build photo's that look is important to me) but I think your right, from the little research I've done the only tower coolers that realistically fit in that case (unless I cut a hole in the lid, hmmmm....) are probably to small to serve that CPU, I had been looking at the noctua NH-D9L which according to noctua's comparability charts is good enough but only just:
https://ncc.noctua.at/coolers/NH-D9L-15/cpu/AMD/AM4?q=7 2700x

then there is the slightly better NH-U9S, which if your right that coolers are measured from the CPU IHS instead of the mobo, won't fit

So all things considered I'll probably end up with a top down, I was looking at the NH-C14S, basically a high end version of the one you linked, but it'll only just fit with the fan underneath, and not much air flow room above, leading me right back to the hole in the case theory

more thinking is needed here, but I would rather get a higher end cooler to save needing to upgrade again in the future, but because options are limited I might have to say goodbye to the thought of noctua chromax black, and I am leaning towards something more like this, if it is good enough (I think it is?)
https://www.scan.co.uk/products/be-...wer-cpu-cooler-4-heatpipes-120mm-pwm-fan-130w

edit: as for PSU, thanks for all the info but because of case limitations I need a SFX PSU, instead of ATX, and this is just about the only thing I understand how to buy, I'll probably end up with a silverstone SST-SX650-G

 

[Misgar]

I am leaning towards something more like this

Yes, it's rated at 130W and is low enough to fit the SFF case. Interesting it "only" has 4-heatpipes versus the Thermalright SI-100's 6-heatpipes. I never did find the exact power rating of the SI-100. They look roughly the same.

I did look at the Noctua low profile coolers but some of them are marginal regarding cooling capacity. I have a mixture of Noctuas, Themalrights and other brands.

 

[RAIDGoblin]

Yes, it's rated at 130W and is low enough to fit the SFF case. Interesting it "only" has 4-heatpipes versus the Thermalright SI-100's 6-heatpipes. I never did find the exact power rating of the SI-100. They look roughly the same

glad you agree it's good enough, I think I'm finally getting the hang of which specs to read and what to look at it does only have 4 heat-pipes, but IDK if more is always better? more research required, but both the coolers have the same size fan but the one you linked has a thicker heat sink, but that could reduce air flow between the top and the case, and the review you linked lists it being loud as a con (putting me off a little bit) but I do like the look of it

 

[Misgar]

it does only have 4 heat-pipes, but IDK if more is always better?

4 thicker heatpipes might be the same as 6 thinner (smaller diameter) heatpipes. Who knows, but with anything (engine size, salary, beer) more is better?

You have to treat the cooler as a whole, with heatpipe performance, number of vanes and total area, separation between adjacent vanes, number of fans, performance of fans, plus a few other factors I can't think of. Then there's mounting, arrangement of case fans, room temperature and other things to factor in.

One option is to read reviews on Tom's, TechPowerUp, etc., where they give graphs showing relative performance against other coolers.

review you linked lists it being loud as a con

They're probably talking about running the fan at full tilt (110W). Fans get noisy at full speed (obviously). Most of the time, the fan will be spinning more slowly and you probably won't be able to hear it above the noise of your case fans. Noctua are known for their quiet fans, but I can't hear my Thermalright SI-100 on my Xeon rig.

If you want a silent cooler and are prepared to leave the side panel off, consider the Noctua NH-P1 passive air cooler (no fans). It's probably a bit too big for a SFF case, but you can see from the vane spacing it's convection cooled.

My Noctua NH-D15 and four case fans are clearly audible on my video editing rig, despite being housed in a Lian Li PC-S80 'Quiet PC' Case with double shell construction. After removing the side panels, there are further panels to remove before accessing the motherboard. A very old design.
https://www.pugetsystems.com/labs/articles/Case-Review-Lian-Li-PC-S80-25/

The computer is pulling 399W at 240V AC 50Hz at this moment in time. That and the other equipment make the room nice and warm, with the temperature outside not far above 0°C (+32°F).

that could reduce air flow between the top and the case,

You could modify (ruin) your case by drilling some ventilation holes in the side panel over the CPU cooler, if the gap is small. Or you could cut a big hole fit and fit a fan grille. Or fit the lower profile SI-100 with 20mm headroom between the fan and the side panel. And so on....

https://www.amazon.co.uk/SilverStone-Technology-SST-FF121B-Filter-Cooling/dp/B07R54VPTC?crid=11ODZCQOPPJNQ&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.t4IV77aXgDzo9L9niXM7kFilbtTGCrbrn4A0XGLkQjtSX-bmf5PZGe5jRvIFaH4NWQtUA0oYR9hjDezVVbyPbLUNbXaZp5ui3pHrV6oRGMK1eJuPYsi4V7D9AjIsG76S3g8RskQKgvitbTrkKJs35pQxqTrfNNSlgS0xIInfaeVomUrFyE_RzByWz4kaK_n6Ua5oSIH5F9O94AiVqDRCjLd-H4-BK8vg8KnLwkxX05M.y1wano6DXCeCZxl3aQLGzcIDMEp24EPy30onC5fs5eE&dib_tag=se&keywords=120mm+fan+grille&nsdOptOutParam=true&qid=1732110416&sprefix=120mm+fan+grille,aps,133&sr=8-19&th=1

 

[RAIDGoblin]

4 thicker heatpipes might be the same as 6 thinner (smaller diameter) heatpipes. Who knows, but with anything (engine size, salary, beer) more is better?

engine size maybe not, because more fuel is burned so more money is spent, but that problem is fixed by a bigger salary so perhaps you are right LOL but in seriousness, the heat pipes on that cooler loop around from both sides, so while there are only 4 through the heat-sink there are technically 6 going through to the cooler so it's probably comparable, and without case modifications that be-quiet cooler is probably as big as I can realistically go, the one from amazon will only have 15mm clearance with the top of the case which probably isn't enough for it to preform that well with such a big fan

My Noctua NH-D15 and four case fans are clearly audible on my video editing rig, despite being housed in a Lian Li PC-S80 'Quiet PC' Case with double shell construction. After removing the side panels, there are further panels to remove before accessing the motherboard. A very old design.
https://www.pugetsystems.com/labs/articles/Case-Review-Lian-Li-PC-S80-25/

that is some serious case! I remember a long time ago looking at one of those in a PC shop, I didn't get it because of a combination of cost and limited desk space, I still have the old-school config of a PC under my monitor and no room for a tower

You could modify (ruin) your case by drilling some ventilation holes in the side panel over the CPU cooler, if the gap is small. Or you could cut a big hole fit and fit a fan grille. Or fit the lower profile SI-100 with 20mm headroom between the fan and the side panel. And so on....

I am honestly leaning in this direction, and would say modify rather than ruin , after all even with a great big hole in the top of the case, possibly even a hole with a cooler sticking out (making me think of modded cars with cut away hoods to make room for bigger engines LOL ), I will still have enough flat space on the front of the case for the monitor stand.

mounting and arrangement of case fans is a big thing to factor in, you are correct, here's the image from my build thread of how the fans are set out:

(GPU isn't shown, you have to imagine it) and at the moment I am torn between three ideas:

1: the be-quiet shadow rock LP, that will just fit if I do nothing but won't be good enough for possible future upgrades, and no room for deciding to overclock if I get a better GPU

2: get a high preforming slim profile tower cooler that is a few cm's taller than the case, cut a hole for it (the red lights can shine out etc), and position it in the same direction as the air flow in the case, blowing out towards the PSU, something a long the lines of the coolermaster Hyper 411 Nano:

that would stand 2 cm above the top of my case. the pro's to this idea being case airflow will likely be better, and the cons would be no direct mobo chip-set cooling

3: Get a big top down cooler, as big as will fit, possibly the be-quiet shadow rock TF2:

where the fan will pretty well be toughing the top of the case, and cut a hole lining up with it, and add a grill, this won't look odd because I've already done this in 3 other places on this case, I'll just use matching grill and bolts, build photo picture:

retro I know, but these look pretty cool with lighting shining out through them, this build has always been a Frankenstein's PC anyway. The only problem with this idea is I have no clue what that much incoming air would do to the rest of my air flow, in theory it would be exhausted through the two out flowing case fans and the PSU but it might fight with the incoming ones since it's central to the case?

At the moment I like idea 3 best, if it would work, I think it would work, I will continue to ponder since I have until Christmas

 

[Misgar]

At the moment I like idea 3 best, if it would work, I think it would work,

The 2700X is hardly a power mad beast, unlike an overclocked 14900K at circa 300W. Pretty much any decent mid-range cooler should stop the 2700X from overheating. I have an old Phenom 965 (can't remember if it's the 125W or 140W version) and that stays cool under a moderately rated air cooler. You can't take these Phenoms over 60°C, unlike modern wonder chips.

The only time I observe processors getting really hot is when running stress tests. WinRAR and Handbrake are not far behind and push the CPU hard (all cores up near 95%). During long video renders, my 3800X and 7950X sit at slightly lower temperatures in the mid eighties Centigrade, with occasional excursions up to the 95°C thermal limit. 3800X has NH-D14 cooling, 7950X has NH-D15 Mk.1.

Remember to "Post early for Christmas" if you're ordering bits to assemble over the holiday break. Black Friday is approaching.

I'll just use matching grill and bolts

I recently ordered twenty 120mm wire grilles and ten 80mm grilles. I'm fed up getting fingers snagged in spinning case fans when prodding around inside computers with the power switched on. A fan guard on both sides stops expletives.

possibly even a hole with a cooler sticking out (making me think of modded cars with cut away hoods to make room for bigger engines LOL )

You could disguise it as a supercharger.

 

[RAIDGoblin]

yeah, I know it's not a high on the power scale CPU, but the case it's self has small air volume so I'm going to need something good, and the more I think about it, the more I realise that the incoming air from a top down cooler will probably compete with the incoming air from the two case fans and force it more towards the GPU, which might just about eliminate the hot spot problem I'm getting at the moment with the old card (that honestly shouldn't be powerful enough to get hot) so it might help overall. and I might as well save money in the future by getting a good cooler now, and getting the air flow good enough to be able to upgrade the GPU soon-ish

and yes absolutely, buying before the Christmas rush is my plan, hence I'm doing all the research now

I recently ordered twenty 120mm wire grilles and ten 80mm grilles. I'm fed up getting fingers snagged in spinning case fans when prodding around inside computers with the power switched on. A fan guard on both sides stops expletives.



You could disguise it as a supercharger.

LOL, yes! at the moment my PC case is open with the monitor balanced on the HDD and DVD bay housing, partly as a short term fix for the GPU hot spot problem, and partly because the GPU has the power cable on the top so I can't close the lid without waiting for a 180 degree adaptor to come in the post, this problem is happening to me often, lot's of expletives! so far the case fans have sucked up a tissue and a receipt as well


and I was thinking exactly that if I go for a tower cooler! but maybe not...


I had been leaning towards the shadow rock tf2, although I just watched a video of fitting it and it can't be removed without taking the mobo out of the case, and I really can't be doing with that for ease of cleaning. So now I think I have the perfect solution in mind, the dark rock tf2:

this thing is awesome looking, it won't fit in with both the fans, but according to a reddit post it preforms about as well as the shadow rock tf2 without the top fan, so for now it'll be great with a grill in the case directly above it, then if/when future upgrades come I can mount the second fan in the hole in the case with a grill on top. According to the be-quiet chart it fit's my mobo, you can get it off without access to the bottom of the board, it'll provide cooling to RAM and chip set

I know it's way over the top, but I like way over the top! but I will do some more thinking before I buy to make certain I don't change my mind tho