Wondering how Nvidia optimized 3dmark03?

[TKS]

I've been getting a lot of people asking me via IM and other stupid chat clients I use 'what are you talking about when you say Nvidia optimized 3dmark03?' Instead of my usual lengthy reply, I'll let the article I saw do the talking. Now I don't know if this is the original article so there might be some other sites where this originally appeared. Anyway, here it is.

<A HREF="http://www.tech-report.com/etc/2003q2/3dmurk03/index.x?pg=1" target="_new">http://www.tech-report.com/etc/2003q2/3dmurk03/index.x?pg=1</A>

another interesting read from the same site:
<A HREF="http://www.tech-report.com/etc/2003q1/3dmark03-story/index.x?pg=1" target="_new">http://www.tech-report.com/etc/2003q1/3dmark03-story/index.x?pg=1</A>

<font color=blue>I don't have to be careful! I have a gun!</font color=blue>
<font color=green>Homer Simpson</font color=green>

TKS

 

[SHARKMEAT]

TKS
http://www.tech-report.com/etc/2001q4/radeon-q3/index.x?pg=1

I think you should remember that things in it,s self don't seem to be what it is.This is a cut throat world of today and tomrrow.read this url you gave that was linked with yours.Also you failed to give the ATI,s latest rinkel on the same line as nvidia Frisco.Try not to be such an ATI zeoliot,yes ever one like there products and I guess you have a thing toward nvidia to keep on raven about how bad they are.I try to buy the best product and so far I haven't seen either one of the newer cards show me much,and i,ve tried both high end cards.Benchmarks are what they are,a guide to generaly give you an idear where they stand,but not as a truth in what they really can do in real world programs or games,things change to fast for the benchmark people to keep up,I use demos most of the time because they try and fix the demo to work on alot of diff cards so they can show more people the game,but even they put limits on the system that will run the game,and sometimes thats not even enough warning.So chill out on the whats what here.


TREAD SLOWLY IN DANGEROUS WATERS

 

[cleeve]

Ati's latest? Jesus murphy.
Dude, the quack3 fiasco was back when the Radeon 8500 was new. Over a year ago. Not exactly "Latest".

Also note that Ati apologized and fixed the driver immediately.
Nvidia's criticizm would be far less if they did that, instead of giving everyone the finger and saying "So what? We do what we want to."

I guess this makes me an Ati zealot in your books. Frankly, I don't care what you think... I buy the best hardware in my price range, Ati or Nvidia.

It's Nvidia's BS corporate attitude that makes me, and alot of other entheusiasts, sick.

------------------
Radeon 9500 w/256 bit memory bus @ 367/310
AMD AthlonXP 2000+
3dMark03: 3439

 

[eden]

Oh and consider adding periods and damn breaks in your posts dude.

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Site has now even more sexy members, for your pleasure.

 

[daddywags214]

Hooah, Cleeve, couldn't agree more. Sharkmeat is thick. We're ATi fans, but at least we have good, legitimate reasons. nVidia must think they're Microsoft or something, because this pompous BS is stupid. Let me say one thing: nVidia is CERTAINLY no Microsoft. They think they're untouchable, and if they keep this crap up, they'll find out the hard way that they're wrong.

<b>nVidia cheated on me so I left her for ATi. ATi's hotter anyway...</b><P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by daddywags214 on 08/14/03 04:07 PM.</EM></FONT></P>

 

[SHARKMEAT]

Eden I agree with you.I do draw long winded post.I,m no grammer freak so forgive me or just don't read the post I put up,nothing personel here dude,I,m not trying to start a war over stupid vidio cards,but ATI apologzied,befor they got caught .They new they where wrong and tryed to make nvidia look bad.and I could care less about what product is which.I try to get the best,and I do it by gettting the card and do my on tests and also on games and programs that I have.Before people think I,m bragging I want them to know I,m just lucky enough to be able to do this,and it has nothing to do with what I can and can't do,or show people that i,m anyway shape or form better than them selves.

TREAD SLOWLY IN DANGEROUS WATERS

 

[TheGreatGrapeApe]

Well since we're rekindeling this, might as well bring in my favourite review site's take on it.

I don't think you can get much more detailed than this;
<A HREF="http://www.digit-life.com/articles2/gffx/gffx-13.html" target="_new">http://www.digit-life.com/articles2/gffx/gffx-13.html</A>

Need some more, well I love dishing out the cheating WhommpS!;
<A HREF="http://www.digit-life.com/articles2/radeon/herc-r9800-r7500.html" target="_new">http://www.digit-life.com/articles2/radeon/herc-r9800-r7500.html</A>

And what about Ut2K3?;
<A HREF="http://www.digit-life.com/articles2/gffx/gffx-16.html" target="_new">http://www.digit-life.com/articles2/gffx/gffx-16.html</A>

<A HREF="http://www.digit-life.com/articles2/radeon/r9800pro-ue.html" target="_new">http://www.digit-life.com/articles2/radeon/r9800pro-ue.html</A>


Now I think it comes down once again to ouf favourite cheats vs. optimizations issue. I go by what even nV has learned. If it changes IQ (even if it's imperceptable to most while playing) it's a cheat, if it does it only for a specific benchmark path, it's a cheat, if it auto detects and turns off any features that the player can't force themselves, then that's a cheat (I want control not the guys who I payed money to!) In the end cheating sucks, I don't like that ATI did it, but I do like the way they did it better (no change in IQ just change in way bench was run 1+2=3 v. 2+1=3), and the diff. in performance was very small (like 2-3%) and the diff. in IQ was Zero in '03, and Very minimal in '01. nV on the other hand obtained LARGE gains in perf. (up to 30+%) and greatly affected IQ in both '03 and UT2K3.

Anywhoo just thought I'd add my take and my fav. links.


- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp <i>(or internet account)</i> ! <A HREF="http://www.redgreen.com" target="_new"><font color=green>RED</font color=green> <font color=red>GREEN</font color=red></A> GA to SK

 

[TKS]

Benchmarks are what they are,a guide to generaly give you an idear where they stand,but not as a truth in what they really can do in real world programs or games,things change to fast for the benchmark people to keep up,I use demos most of the time because they try and fix the demo to work on alot of diff cards so they can show more people the game,but even they put limits on the system that will run the game,and sometimes thats not even enough warning.So chill out on the whats what here.

I think you fail to realize that games are now being 'optimized' <b>not</b> just benchmarks. The games are <b>BECOMING</b> the benchmarks. Think of it...if Doom3 ships without a benchmark ability/time demo people will go ballistic. Why? Because the games are used now and some even hold more weight than any 3dmark score because it is supposed to be 'real performance.' Is it still real when the performance is doctored though?

We have companies working 'behind closed doors' with individual games so that they will play faster with said companies video card installed. If that keeps up, someday we'll have to purchase a video card with EVERY GAME we buy because they will be 'optimized' for only one brand of card. So where is the line drawn? If the performance edges are used by every card company...Excellent, everyone that owns both cards will benefit. But if not and we continue to go down the road that Nvidia is taking us...who knows? Perhaps they'll have cellophane wrapped video cards on the backside of video games....So can I chill out on this? No. I can't chill out on anything I am concerned about. We are at a crossroads for graphics cards. What direction we go today will ultimately decide where we will be for the next 10 years. I'll have plenty of time to chill out when I'm dead. Until then, I plan on living a little...hopefully with a graphics card that will be equally playable on all games and not tweaked to perform better on just a few.

<font color=blue>I don't have to be careful! I have a gun!</font color=blue>
<font color=green>Homer Simpson</font color=green>

TKS