News World's First Wood Transistor Chops Out at 1 Hz

[Admin]

The first wood transistor doesn’t switch very fast, but it gets extra points for sustainability and biodegradability.

World's First Wood Transistor Chops Out at 1 Hz : Read more

 

[Leptir]

What "future work and applications"?! This is totally useless. Clearly some people have entirely too much free time and resources at their disposal.

 

[thisisaname]

It may have started out has wood just not sure it can be called wood once the lignin was removed leaving only long cellulose fibres. The "wood" was just there to give shape to the "a conductive plastic, or polymer, called PEDOT : PSS,",
Also not sure how environmental it all is either.

 

[bit_user]

What "future work and applications"?! This is totally useless. Clearly some people have entirely too much free time and resources at their disposal.

That isn't remotely true and suggests you're seriously lacking imagination and creativity. It will likely have long-term applications in farming and forestry, for embedding some monitoring & control circuits directly into the plants, themselves.

As for the size and speed, perhaps they could get onto a Moore's Law-type improvement curve. The real breakthrough is going to be when someone figures out how to grow these, and use them to genetically engineer circuits directly into plants.

 

[LabRat 891]

What "future work and applications"?! This is totally useless. Clearly some people have entirely too much free time and resources at their disposal.

Commentary like this reminds me of how the very principals involved in an electromagnetic motor, were once taught as "useless, and purely academic".

At the least, this "seemingly-useless" invention, demonstrates that 'just about anything can be turned into a transistor'. The principles quantified here, may have far-reaching use, including medical devices and power circuitry.

(Not to mention, it looks like other than specialized materials used, this is an experiment you could almost 'do at home'.
So, this may have DIY/homebrew applications.)

 

[bit_user]

It may have started out has wood just not sure it can be called wood once the lignin was removed leaving only long cellulose fibres. The "wood" was just there to give shape to the "a conductive plastic, or polymer, called PEDOT:pSS,",
Also not sure how environmental it all is either.

If nature figured out how to grow bones and shells, then I trust there's a way to coerce plants to do something equivalent to what they did, here.

 

[Giroro]

Silicon is more sustainable than wood

Once I saw a magazine make an "OLED" by shoving a pickle on an arc welder.

 

[bit_user]

Silicon is more sustainable than wood

Exactly where did anyone suggest they would ever replace silicon-based electronics?

I think you'd only use these in contexts where silicon has some inherent disadvantage.

 

[USAFRet]

To all the naysayers, heres a few words for you.
(say it fast)

Ex Per I Men Ta Shun

 

[Alvar "Miles" Udell]

Think of all the electronics out there that don't need fast processing, things like pregnancy test and glucose meters, many of which are disposable. Things like wood-based electronics would not only make them more sustainable, but far more accessible to emerging markets. They could also lead to the development of inexpensive, disposable biodegradable devices which could have applications in food safety and many other fields.

 

[Amdlova]

When fbi comes the wood stove are heating some bits.

 

[brandonjclark]

Umm, there would need to be money involved to the point it was PROFITABLE. Make it profitable, and the tech will advance.

Why wood, btw?

Isn't there more interesting mixtures of compounds to try? I mean, wood is like the most rare resource in the galaxy. It just happens to be plentiful HERE.

 

[bit_user]

Umm, there would need to be money involved to the point it was PROFITABLE. Make it profitable, and the tech will advance.

Even before profitability, simply finding applications for it that are potentially profitable is enough to draw research grants to get it there.

Why wood, btw?

I think we've already answered that question well enough.

Isn't there more interesting mixtures of compounds to try? I mean, wood is like the most rare resource in the galaxy. It just happens to be plentiful HERE.

I find it interesting that you have such expansive knowledge of our galaxy. Remind me to ask you about that, another time.

However, your quip and the apparent potential for imbuing plants with electronic circuits could lead to interesting questions about this sort of technology occurring in alien life forms. According to wikipedia:

"The chemical composition of wood varies from species to species, but is approximately 50% carbon, 42% oxygen, 6% hydrogen, 1% nitrogen, and 1% other elements (mainly calcium, potassium, sodium, magnesium, iron, and manganese) by weight. Wood also contains sulfur, chlorine, silicon, phosphorus, and other elements in small quantity."
​

Not rare elements, principally. So, it seems it could well be formed on other planetary bodies capable of supporting life.

 

[Friesiansam]

What "future work and applications"?! This is totally useless. Clearly some people have entirely too much free time and resources at their disposal.

Every time there is an announcement about, unusual research projects, there is always somebody who just derides it as useless.

If it was not for those people who think, "what can I do with this?" and, then setting about finding out, we would never have got as far as the square wheel...

 

[sam buddy]

If nature figured out how to grow bones and shells, then I trust there's a way to coerce plants to do something equivalent to what they did, here.

Add some AI to the recipe, and nature could become the next Cyderdyne! The way nature is suffering from human exploitation and destruction today, it would be arguably better to have Skynet Treants kicking our butts till we fix it, than Cylons kicking our butts into outer space

 

[Grobe]

To all the naysayers, heres a few words for you.
(say it fast)

Ex Per I Men Ta Shun

Experiment a sun ? Nah, fast-spoking ain't working for me

 

[Endymio]

Think of all the electronics out there that don't need fast processing...Things like wood-based electronics would make them more sustainable...

I rather doubt that replacing the lignin in wood with sulfonated polystyrene is more "sustainable" than silicon, which after all is merely refined sand. Certainly those who deride this research as useless are wrong (pure research is almost never useless), but claiming this is a great leap forward environmentally is even further off base.

I find it interesting that you have such expansive knowledge of our galaxy. Remind me to ask you about that, another time.

While you have a point about the perils of overly extrapolating our knowledge, I think it's a monumentally safe bet that elemental silicon is far more prevalent in the universe at large than all forms of life combined, much less the substance known as "wood".

 

[Grobe]

I can see one very nice practical use for this slow transistor.

School case is: As a student for general digital ground course, making sense of the inner working of basic circuits like JK flip flops, muxers etc may be difficult.

But - making out such components out of slow transistors can be just what a student need to see in order to understand the steps and working of basic digital circuits.

 

[dwn2brasstacks]

The first wood transistor doesn’t switch very fast, but it gets extra points for sustainability and biodegradability.

World's First Wood Transistor Chops Out at 1 Hz : Read more

Have we tried etching pathways then coating with graphite/graphene?
This would of course be silly and prone to expanding based on moisture content, but if you sucked out all the moisture then coated it pretty much anything could be a complex (yet way less efficient) processor. Hell, you could likely spray a fine grid on any surface but I suppose that is cheating.

I also thought you could use a form of cellulose to do this, and of course OLED exists. Eventually, we will be able to mimic and improve neural networks (could even be self-healing and expandable) and we really will have bird drones! Not to mention cyborgs...

 

[bit_user]

Add some AI to the recipe, and nature could become the next Cyderdyne!

To get enough compute density and efficiency into plants, I think the transistor isn't a viable technology. You'd probably need to approach it from the perspective of trying to create a plant version of a neuron.

The way nature is suffering from human exploitation and destruction today,

The thing people tend not to appreciate about plants is that they're able to sense much about their environment and surroundings. We know this, because they react to a wide range of changes in a variety of different ways. Embedding circuitry into them could help us tap into their sensor network, so we can use them to monitor their surroundings. This could be used for environmental monitoring.

 

[bit_user]

While you have a point about the perils of overly extrapolating our knowledge, I think it's a monumentally safe bet that elemental silicon is far more prevalent in the universe at large than all forms of life combined, much less the substance known as "wood".

While you're concerned only with the main elemental ingredient of semiconductors, there are other considerations. Assembly being chief among them. Life has gotten very good at assembling things, even on a molecular level, and can build nanostructures that put our latest & greatest lithography to shame.

Also, a lot more ingredients go into modern semiconductor dies than silicon. I don't know how many are limited in their known reserves, but it's something to consider. But, as I said, this shouldn't be viewed as a contest. Rather, we should celebrate the emergence of a complementary technology.

 

[gg83]

What "future work and applications"?! This is totally useless. Clearly some people have entirely too much free time and resources at their disposal.

Really? Exploring other materials is the smartest thing researchers can do. Inspiration can come from any line of inquiry.

 

[Geef]

FIRE​

 

[Endymio]

While you're concerned only with the main elemental ingredient of semiconductors, there are other considerations. Assembly being chief among them. Life has gotten very good at assembling things, even on a molecular level

Quite true. However, despite the click-bait headline, these circuits are actually composed of sulfonated polystyrenes, not wood. And research into self-assembly of silicon-based semiconductors is rampant. I'd even hazard a bet that we'll see actual production of self-assembled silicon within the next decade. On a semi-related note, I'm sure you're aware of the speculation that silicon-based life may be widespread in the universe. Silicon compounds have nearly as much prevalence to self-assembly as do carbon ones.

 

[bit_user]

On a semi-related note, I'm sure you're aware of the speculation that silicon-based life may be widespread in the universe. Silicon compounds have nearly as much prevalence to self-assembly as do carbon ones.

I haven't followed this plot, but I remember seeing some doubt cast on its inherent efficiency and suitability vs. carbon. Wikipedia enumerates some fundamental disadvantages of silicon, as a carbon alternative:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypothetical_types_of_biochemistry#Silicon_biochemistry
​

Also, while contemplating @brandonjclark 's post, it occurred to me to look up the composition of asteroids. According to Wikipedia, 75% of asteroids are carbonaceous or C-type. It further notes that, due to the difficulty of seeing them, this might even be an underestimate.