Question Worse Performance with 4090 AFTER CPU Upgrade

[Jmunk]

Hey Ya'll,

Got a 4090 a month or so ago, with my then processor, the 9900k. I'm gaming in 1440, and Warzone 2 is absolutely horrendously optimized, so I actually wasn't even able to hit my refresh rate of 165hz in some areas of the map. Thought it was time to do a new build around the 4090 - and then upgrade to the new AMD's processors when they come out.

Installed the new build today. Went with a 7700x and DDR5. Somehow, in MW2's benchmark, I'm getting worse results with the exact same in game settings. Not only that, it's now saying that my bottleneck is "92%" my GPU. With a 4090, I mean, that's just not possible. I feel like something isn't right lol.

Take a look at these: Any ideas?

 

[drivinfast247]

233fps is horrendous?

Did you do a full reinstall of Windows?

Everything up-to-date?

 

[Jmunk]

233fps is horrendous?

Did you do a full reinstall of Windows?

Everything up-to-date?

233FPS isn't what you're getting in Warzone 2 in-game. This is the benchmark. When I averaged 255 in the benchmark, it was more realistically like 150FPS average, with dips into 120. But, that's not really the issue here, the actual numbers. The problem is somehow the 4090 with the 7700x with DDR5, is doing considerably worse than a 9900k with DDR4.

I did not do a full reinstall of Windows. I reused the same two SSD's original build and just transferred them over.
GPU drivers are up to date.
I do not have XMP enabled, however, because when trying to do so, it failed to boot. I'm thinking I might need a BIOS update before I can enable XMP? Not sure.

 

[drivinfast247]

233FPS isn't what you're getting in Warzone 2 in-game. This is the benchmark. When I averaged 255 in the benchmark, it was more realistically like 150FPS average, with dips into 120. But, that's not really the issue here, the actual numbers. The problem is somehow the 4090 with the 7700x with DDR5, is doing considerably worse than a 9900k with DDR4.

I did not do a full reinstall of Windows. I reused the same two SSD's original build and just transferred them over.
GPU drivers are up to date.
I do not have XMP enabled, however, because when trying to do so, it failed to boot. I'm thinking I might need a BIOS update before I can enable XMP? Not sure.

Start by doing a full reinstall of Windows. It should be done after a major platform change. And especially if you are having issues.

Then make sure to update chipset drivers as well as BIOS.

 

[zx128k]

Windows 11 will likely turn on all the security stuff by default with the 7700x and by default off with the 9900k. Also RAM speed/timings are important for game performance. Make sure your RAM is running at least at XMP. Many games will show Windows 10 but you are on Windows 11. So I can't 100% trust the game screenshot. If you look at the screenshot the 7700x is still faster than the 9900k but for some reason the RTX 4090 is performing slower. I would check your power cable (RTX 4090 always check it), that you have all the PCIe lanes and are gen4, that rebar is enable in BIOS and that you are using the same GPU settings as before. GPU-z can help with this process. Also check that the temperatures for every component is correct and safe.

Given that you have a RTX 4090 100% check that the power cable is correctly installed on the GPU. That it is pushed 100% home and clipped into place. This is very important. Also use DLSS and not AMD upscaling if you can.

The expected performance for Warzone 2 can be found here. You can see at 1080p Ultra quality, a 7700x and a 4090 get 227 fps. 1440p hits 200fps. This is without upscaling. AMD's Zen 4 processors were tested with DDR5-6000. Note performance was often ~10% better for the benchmark pass. So add 10% approx.

This review of a 7700x and 4090 for warzone states cpu limited at 4k. If this is true or not I don't know.

Ingame 4k

Can't find your resolution. Also note that you changed GPU driver between benchmarks.

Most of this stuff is what I do with a new PC.

 

[Jmunk]

Start by doing a full reinstall of Windows. It should be done after a major platform change. And especially if you are having issues.

Then make sure to update chipset drivers as well as BIOS.

Didn't really know about reinstalling windows. I guess as a last resort I can try that.

As far as the chipset drivers, I just used Gigabyte's Control Center to install all of the drivers. I feel like Windows does a pretty good job at doing that too, no?

 

[zx128k]

Didn't really know about reinstalling windows. I guess as a last resort I can try that.

As far as the chipset drivers, I just used Gigabyte's Control Center to install all of the drivers. I feel like Windows does a pretty good job at doing that too, no?

You don't have to reinstall Windows unless there is a problem. At worst you reset the install.

 

[Jmunk]

Windows 11 will likely turn on all the security stuff by default with the 7700x and by default off with the 9900k. Also RAM speed/timings are important for game performance. Make sure your RAM is running at least at XMP. Many games will show Windows 10 but you are on Windows 11. So I can't 100% trust the game screenshot. If you look at the screenshot the 7700x is still faster than the 9900k but for some reason the RTX 4090 is performing slower. I would check your power cable (RTX 4090 always check it), that you have all the PCIe lanes and are gen4, that rebar is enable in BIOS and that you are using the same GPU settings as before. GPU-z can help with this process. Also check that the temperatures for every component is correct and safe.

Given that you have a RTX 4090 100% check that the power cable is correctly installed on the GPU. That it is pushed 100% home and clipped into place. This is very important. Also use DLSS and not AMD upscaling if you can.

The expected performance for Warzone 2 can be found here. You can see at 1080p Ultra quality, a 7700x and a 4090 get 227 fps. 1440p hits 200fps. This is without upscaling. AMD's Zen 4 processors were tested with DDR5-6000. Note performance was often ~10% better for the benchmark pass. So add 10% approx.

This review of a 7700x and 4090 for warzone states cpu limited at 4k. If this is true or not I don't know.

Ingame 4k

Can't find your resolution. Also note that you changed GPU driver between benchmarks.

Most of this stuff is what I do with a new PC.

Where could I go to see these security settings you're talking about? Yeah, I'm sure the XMP not being enabled is definitely affecting it a bit. XMP was enabled with the 9900k build. I'm definitely on Windows 10. Although, now that I've changed hardware, it says I need to activate Windows, so I might have to end up buying/installing Windows 11 anyway.

What do you mean the 7700x is still faster? Everything was worse on the 7700x screenshot.

Power cables are firmly pressed in, made sure of that on the last build and this one too. I know the problems surrounding the 4090. Each PCIE connection for the 4090 is also getting its own PCIE cable other than the 4th connection (which I've read isn't 100% necessary anyway), so it should be good power wise. I've got the Gigabyte B650 Auroras Elite AX MB - I'll be honest, not too sure what gen4 pcie lanes are. Resizable bar? I'm not sure if that's on either, I'd have to check BIOS. Never messed with that in my other build. Same NVIDIA center GPU settings as I had before. 1440p res, 165hz. Temperatures are all completely good to go on all parts.

DLSS is actually horrible for WZ2, the Fidelity upscale not only gets you better frames, but it looks wayyy better.

I got into a game to see the performance, was definitely hitting 200 in some areas, but in other areas in town, I was hitting low 160s. That was with the upscaling no less. I'm also on the absolute lowest settings in game.

Found this which kinda points me more in the direction of the BIOS update needed. For my MB, there was a BIOS update that came out that "Fix NVIDIA Geforce RTX 4090 PCIe down speed issue (SMU 84.79)". I wonder if this has anything to do with what I'm experiencing.

 

[USAFRet]

Didn't really know about reinstalling windows. I guess as a last resort I can try that.

When changing systems and attempting to reuse the drive+OS, there are 3 possible outcomes:

1. It works just fine
2. It fails completely
3. It "works", but you're chasing issues for weeks/months.

You are in #3.
Full wipe and reinstall. Not a simple "reset".

 

[Jmunk]

When changing systems and attempting to reuse the drive+OS, there are 3 possible outcomes:

1. It works just fine
2. It fails completely
3. It "works", but you're chasing issues for weeks/months.

You are in #3.
Full wipe and reinstall. Not a simple "reset".

Lol, you think so?

I don't really mind doing it anyway. Since I need to activate windows, would I just need to somehow back up my files, purchase Windows 11, and then install it? Or is there some way of correctly completely wiping and fresh install?

 

[zx128k]

Where could I go to see these security settings you're talking about? Yeah, I'm sure the XMP not being enabled is definitely affecting it a bit. XMP was enabled with the 9900k build. I'm definitely on Windows 10. Although, now that I've changed hardware, it says I need to activate Windows, so I might have to end up buying/installing Windows 11 anyway.

What do you mean the 7700x is still faster? Everything was worse on the 7700x screenshot.

Power cables are firmly pressed in, made sure of that on the last build and this one too. I know the problems surrounding the 4090. Each PCIE connection for the 4090 is also getting its own PCIE cable other than the 4th connection (which I've read isn't 100% necessary anyway), so it should be good power wise. I've got the Gigabyte B650 Auroras Elite AX MB - I'll be honest, not too sure what gen4 pcie lanes are. Resizable bar? I'm not sure if that's on either, I'd have to check BIOS. Never messed with that in my other build. Same NVIDIA center GPU settings as I had before. 1440p res, 165hz. Temperatures are all completely good to go on all parts.

DLSS is actually horrible for WZ2, the Fidelity upscale not only gets you better frames, but it looks wayyy better.

I got into a game to see the performance, was definitely hitting 200 in some areas, but in other areas in town, I was hitting low 160s. That was with the upscaling no less. I'm also on the absolute lowest settings in game.

Found this which kinda points me more in the direction of the BIOS update needed. For my MB, there was a BIOS update that came out that "Fix NVIDIA Geforce RTX 4090 PCIe down speed issue (SMU 84.79)". I wonder if this has anything to do with what I'm experiencing.

Thats the PCIe speed issue you can find in GPU-z. Why you check the link speed in GPU-z and if ReBar is enabled. How much performance you lose is covered in the video. You can check your BIOS version in CPU-z. Don't update the BIOS if you don't have to. RAM XMP is an issue, did you check the memory QVL for your motherboard? Slow RAM is a posible cause of performance reduction from expected values. 3D Mark can show the averages for your system but if XMP is not running your system will be slower than expected and reinstalling Windows won't affect your XMP settings for your RAM not working in BIOS and your system not posting with xmp settings set. You have a hardware issue that needs resolved. Getting the RAM to run at its correct speed. This is were that BIOS update "could" (not certain) really help, as it improves memory and PCIe device compatibility. Activate windows after you get everything to work and you are sure no RMA's are needed.

 

[USAFRet]

Is your current Win 11 fully activated and linked to your MS account?
If so, you probably do NOT have to purchase a new license.

After the OS install, go into your MS account and tell it about the hardware change.


After you've backed up any personal data, for the actual install, this...
(this is Win 10, but almost exactly the same)

How To - Windows 10 clean install tutorial

If you are looking for the Windows 11 Clean install tutorial, you can find that here: Windows 11 Clean install tutorial (Click here) Otherwise, welcome to the Windows 10 Clean install tutorial This tutorial is intended to help you, step by step, to perform a clean install of Windows...

forums.tomshardware.com

 

[Jmunk]

Thats the PCIe speed issue you can find in GPU-z. Why you check the link speed in GPU-z and if ReBar is enabled. How much performance you lose is covered in the video. You can check your BIOS version in CPU-z. Don't update the BIOS if you don't have to. RAM XMP is an issue, did you check the memory QVL for your motherboard? Slow RAM is a posible cause of performance reduction from expected values. 3D Mark can show the averages for your system but if XMP is not running your system will be slower than expected and reinstalling Windows won't affect your XMP settings for your RAM not working in BIOS and your system not posting with xmp settings set. You have a hardware issue that needs resolved. Getting the RAM to run at its correct speed. This is were that BIOS update "could" (not certain) really help, as it improves memory and PCIe device compatibility, Activate windows after you get everything to work and you are sure no RMA's are needed.

Looks like ReBar is enabled. Not sure about the "link speed". CPUZ says BIOS version is F1 - which would be three version behind. I did not check the QVL - but I'll be honest, after reading around it looks like checking the QVL is not really needed so much now, especially since MB manus don't even necessarily update their QVL's, and especially if you're using popular RAM, which I most certainly am (Corsair Vengeance 32 GB (2 x 16 GB) DDR5-5600 CL36).

If it's a hardware RAM related issue that you think, which I feel like it could be too, I think it's definitely related to XMP not being enabled, and it looks like that is going to require a BIOS update so I can actually boot up after enabling XMP.

 

[zx128k]

Its at were it states Bus Interface. You see PCIe x16 4.0. If you click the ? there is a stress test that should load the GPU and cause the speed to increase from @X16 1.1 to @ x16 4.0. This would confirm it working. GPU bus interface looks okay so far. Memory QVL is the RAM kits the motherboard manufacture has tested and are known to work with the motherboard training software. The QVL will tell you what amount of DIMMs and the speeds supported. In the passed you could read the QVL and work out the IC's used. Like b-die from samsung, if a kit in the QVL had that IC then you should be able to get your not included kit to work, Some IC's don't work with the motherboard, others you can get to work.

The RAM is the main issue, we need to get that working at the rated frequency or if it cant you need to RMA or replace with another kit. If the kit is not in the memory QVL then we need to troubleshoot. At least the system posts which is a good sign. I would try one stick and make sure its in the right slot as per the motherboard instructions. Then see if XMP works. If it does then try just the second stick. If they are in the wrong DIMM slots as per the motherboard manual then try both in the right slots first.

Outcomes examples can be:
One stick works at XMP and not the other.
Both sticks work as one DIMM only.
Both stick don't work at XMP.
Both sticks work at XMP in the right DIMM sockets.

You need to fix the hardware issues first and then go onto any software issues afterwards. Fix the RAM XMP issue and see if performance is more to your liking.

 

[Jmunk]

Its at were it states Bus Interface. You see PCIe x16 4.0. If you click the ? there is a stress test that should load the GPU and cause the speed to increase from @X16 1.1 to @ x16 4.0. This would confirm it working. GPU bus interface looks okay so far. Memory QVL is the RAM kits the motherboard manufacture has tested and are known to work with the motherboard training software. The QVL will tell you what amount of DIMMs and the speeds supported. In the passed you could read the QVL and work out the IC's used. Like b-die from samsung, if a kit in the QVL had that IC then you should be able to get your not included kit to work, Some IC's don't work with the motherboard, others you can get to work.

The RAM is the main issue, we need to get that working at the rated frequency or if it cant you need to RMA or replace with another kit. If the kit is not in the memory QVL then we need to troubleshoot. At least the system posts which is a good sign. I would try one stick and make sure its in the right slot as per the motherboard instructions. Then see if XMP works. If it does then try just the second stick. If they are in the wrong DIMM slots as per the motherboard manual then try both in the right slots first.

Outcomes examples can be:
One stick works at XMP and not the other.
Both sticks work as one DIMM only.
Both stick don't work at XMP.
Both sticks work at XMP in the right DIMM sockets.

You need to fix the hardware issues first and then go onto any software issues afterwards. Fix the RAM XMP issue and see if performance is more to your liking.

I'll have to check the lane speeds when I get back to the computer later.

Sorry, where do you see the RAM speeds are not running at the advertised frequencies?

 

[logainofhades]

CPU-Z can provide what ram speeds you are running, or just go into the bios, and make sure XMP, or EXPO, is turned on.

 

[zx128k]

Have you got the RAM manually setup and thus running at its rated speed? CPU-z will show the RAM speeds on the third tab called memory. XMP is just the easy way to set it up in BIOS, you can setup the RAM manually as well. If the RAM speed is poor and the timings are bad then performance in games is likely constrained.

Thaiphoon Burner can confirm that you are running at XMP settings.

All we are doing is making sure all the hardware is working as it should. Just click on read, do nothing else and take a screenshot. Same with CPU-z and post both here.

 

[Jmunk]

Have you got the RAM manually setup and thus running at its rated speed? CPU-z will show the RAM speeds on the third tab called memory. XMP is just the easy way to set it up in BIOS, you can setup the RAM manually as well. If the RAM speed is poor and the timings are bad then performance in games is likely constrained.

Thaiphoon Burner can confirm that you are running at XMP settings.

All we are doing is making sure all the hardware is working as it should. Just click on read, do nothing else and take a screenshot. Same with CPU-z and post both here.

I didn't manually adjust any RAM timings in BIOS at all.

Unless I'm reading this wrong, it looks like it's running at 2392(x2), so about 4790. The RAM is rated at 5600. I'm guessing if XMP was able to be enabled, that might get those speeds there, right?

 

[Jmunk]

Ladies, and gentleman. Looks like the BIOS update did the trick. I tested the lane speed like zx128k pointed out, and it was at 1.1, even doing the render test. I figured since the bios update said 4090 speed fixes, as well as memory compatibility upgrades, the BIOS upgrade was the first step I should do. After updating to the latest version, we're now running at 1.4 lane speed, and check out this benchmark (THIS IS STILL WITHOUT XMP ENABLED). My next step is to try and see if the PC can boot with XMP enabled, hopefully the memory compatibility updates with the BIOS update will fix that.

Only thing that's still kinda funny is that my UserBenchmark score for my 4090 is still better on the 9900k than the 7700x. The 3Dx9 score was better on the 7700x, but the 3Dx10 score was better on the 9900k. Interesting. Those shots are attached here below as well.

Time to try to turn on XMP and see what we get.

 

[Jmunk]

Anddddd we were able to boot WITH XMP enabled thanks to the BIOS update. Speeds are now correctly running at 5600. Got a few more frames out of that on the benchmark too.

This is all really good stuff - except the benchmark still shows I'm somehow 81% GPU bottlenecked with a 4090 on 1440p (all lowest settings) which I honestly just can't believe.

I tried everything out in Warzone and I'm getting around 175-190 consistently for the most parts (some areas can dip into the 160s still). I know every game is different with its optimizations and whatnot but I can't shake this feeling like I honestly just expect the 4090 to be doing...better? I'm on the absolute lowest settings on 1440p, DDR5 RAM, 7700x, and I can't even reach 200FPS in game. Dunno, something just still seems off.

Maybe I'm just going crazy and number chasing, but when you pay for something like a 4090, you definitely don't feel like leaving any performance on the table.

 

[kerberos_20]

Anddddd we were able to boot WITH XMP enabled thanks to the BIOS update. Speeds are now correctly running at 5600. Got a few more frames out of that on the benchmark too.

This is all really good stuff - except the benchmark still shows I'm somehow 81% GPU bottlenecked with a 4090 on 1440p (all lowest settings) which I honestly just can't believe.

I tried everything out in Warzone and I'm getting around 175-190 consistently for the most parts (some areas can dip into the 160s still). I know every game is different with its optimizations and whatnot but I can't shake this feeling like I honestly just expect the 4090 to be doing...better? I'm on the absolute lowest settings on 1440p, DDR5 RAM, 7700x, and I can't even reach 200FPS in game. Dunno, something just still seems off.

Maybe I'm just going crazy and number chasing, but when you pay for something like a 4090, you definitely don't feel like leaving any performance on the table.

well because your gpu outputs less frames than you cpu can handle, (20fps diff on average), there will always be some bottleneck at uncapped frame rate, either cpu or gpu

 

[Jmunk]

well because your gpu outputs less frames than you cpu can handle, (20fps diff on average), there will always be some bottleneck at uncapped frame rate, either cpu or gpu

Well, for sure a bottleneck will always exist, that's not really my problem.

My issue is that I don't think that the 4090 should be the one that's the bottleneck. Especially on my settings (1440p, lowest in-game settings). In my head, my CPU should be bottlenecking the 4090 99%.

 

[zx128k]

Well, for sure a bottleneck will always exist, that's not really my problem.

My issue is that I don't think that the 4090 should be the one that's the bottleneck. Especially on my settings (1440p, lowest in-game settings). In my head, my CPU should be bottlenecking the 4090 99%.

You want the GPU to bottleneck completely but its hard at 1080p and 1440p to get 100% with a 4090 I would guess. With the new BIOS and RAM at xmp performance is better than the 9900k system. We have moved towards fixing the hardware side of things and performance has become far better. Its starting to look like the upgrade was worth it and not just a side upgrade.

You are not just the only person having these issues. You should run a time spy benchmark and see if you how hit the performance your type of system should get on average. Check that the GPU is running with all its lanes, x16 @ 4.0 or there abouts. You wont get higher as the card supports upto PICe 4.0. With the RAM at XMP and decent timings as well that should really help keep gameplay smooth and stable.

If performance is normal in Time Spy and you can't see any issues with temps, hardware not running at its rated speed etc. Then I would check your PC is stable. HWiNFO64 is a decent monitoring tool. Start it with the option sensor only. You can see the temps of the CPU, VRMs and GPU. Also the frequencies of the CPU and GPU.

Guide here. PCI current link speed. Should be 4 for Gen 4 and PCI current link width should be 10 as this is likely hex for 16.

You can check benchmark reviews for the 4090 and warzone 2. Copy their settings and see how close you are in performance.