Question Would an i7-12700 EVER make more sense than an i5-12600K ?

[My PC Hates Me]

Would an i7-12700 (non-K version, not the F version) ever make more sense than an i5-12600K ???

I know the 12-700 is more expensive than the i5-12600K

Could the price difference be offset by a less expensive motherboard? less expensive cooler / fan(s)?

It would mostly be used for video editing (in DaVinci Resolve) and Photo editing (Lightoom, Photoshop, gimp, darktable). Maybe some esports gaming.

 

[Lafong]

2) Your comment about Windows 11 has me a bit concerned beause a) I have no idea what the task scheduler is

10 and 11 both have schedulers, but the 11 version is said to have better capabilities considering the P and E cores available on 12th gen and later hardware.

I have seen speculation that MS will make the improved scheduler available on 10, but I guess that's all it is.....speculation.

I'd guess there are websites out there that have attempted to judge exactly how advantageous the 11 scheduler is, but I have not searched for it.

I plan to upgrade within 3 to 6 months to 13th gen parts and would otherwise like to stay with 10, but I'm afraid my curiosity (fear of missing out) will get the better of me and I would force myself to 11 even though I may never be able to notice the difference in scheduling.

 

[Karadjgne]

Silicon is a manufactured substance from natural materials. Sand, for instance, is not pure, there's always bits of detritus in it, minerals etc that can't be fully removed. This makes it so every silicon chip responds to voltages or current slightly differently.

So 1 cpu might need 1.408v in a core to get a certain speed, another of the exact same cpu might need 1.426v and another might need 1.346v. There's no telling exactly, but the manufacturer still has to guarantee that at stock default settings, it will work stable and flawless. So they set core voltages to run at 1.458v for that speed, and that covers everybody, all of that chip produced.

Undervolting is taking that 1.458v and lowering it as far as the cpu will allow. Lower voltages = less power consumption = less heat produced = lower cpu temps. This often means bonus performance, especially with Ryzens.

It's also the basis for OC theory, tampering with default settings to get higher performance, at greater efficiency than default. If you undervolt, you technically overclocked since the core is running at a higher speed than the current voltage is programmed to by the manufacturer

 

[My PC Hates Me]

Silicon is a manufactured substance from natural materials. Sand, for instance, is not pure, there's always bits of detritus in it, minerals etc that can't be fully removed. This makes it so every silicon chip responds to voltages or current slightly differently.

So 1 cpu might need 1.408v in a core to get a certain speed, another of the exact same cpu might need 1.426v and another might need 1.346v. There's no telling exactly, but the manufacturer still has to guarantee that at stock default settings, it will work stable and flawless. So they set core voltages to run at 1.458v for that speed, and that covers everybody, all of that chip produced.

Undervolting is taking that 1.458v and lowering it as far as the cpu will allow. Lower voltages = less power consumption = less heat produced = lower cpu temps. This often means bonus performance, especially with Ryzens.

It's also the basis for OC theory, tampering with default settings to get higher performance, at greater efficiency than default. If you undervolt, you technically overclocked since the core is running at a higher speed than the current voltage is programmed to by the manufacturer

Thanks for the detailed explanation. I appreciate that.

I guess that is why I see some people say they get better performance when undervolting because if they don't, the cpu starts to thermal throttle???

 

[My PC Hates Me]

10 and 11 both have schedulers, but the 11 version is said to have better capabilities considering the P and E cores available on 12th gen and later hardware.

I have seen speculation that MS will make the improved scheduler available on 10, but I guess that's all it is.....speculation.

I'd guess there are websites out there that have attempted to judge exactly how advantageous the 11 scheduler is, but I have not searched for it.

I plan to upgrade within 3 to 6 months to 13th gen parts and would otherwise like to stay with 10, but I'm afraid my curiosity (fear of missing out) will get the better of me and I would force myself to 11 even though I may never be able to notice the difference in scheduling.

Thanks for the elaboration. I guess I will have to look in to it more.

 

[DRagor]

I don't think you have to worry about Win 11 scheduler in your use case. It does matter when you're gaming, as games use just a few cores and scheduler putting game code on E-core instead of P-core means game will run slower (because E-core has lower clock). But when your software uses all available threads anyway it does not really matter where each tread lands. I'd say you can safely use 12700 with Win 10 (again, specifically in your use case).

 

[Karadjgne]

12th gen saw Intel split/combine tech. They took the power cruncher cores from the Xeons and mixed them with the power performance cores from the i-core cpus. This gives those cpus a boost in production values over and above the 11th gen. Windows 11 has a scheduler built into the code, a development worked on closely by Microsoft and Intel jointly. What it does is determine the best cores to use per software need.

For games, that means almost total performance core use, the E-cores going unused, the scheduler makes that happen. For stuff like blender, the E-cores see heavy use, with the P-cores seeing less, or scheduled for other tasks.

 

[My PC Hates Me]

I don't think you have to worry about Win 11 scheduler in your use case. It does matter when you're gaming, as games use just a few cores and scheduler putting game code on E-core instead of P-core means game will run slower (because E-core has lower clock). But when your software uses all available threads anyway it does not really matter where each tread lands. I'd say you can safely use 12700 with Win 10 (again, specifically in your use case).

Thank you. I appreciate that clarification.

There is really a lot that I have to catch up on. Technology sure has changed a lot since the i7-6700 was king of the world.

 

[Karadjgne]

Thank you. I appreciate that clarification.

There is really a lot that I have to catch up on. Technology sure has changed a lot since the i7-6700 was king of the world.

That's what I said several years ago, when the i7-3770K was king....

 

[My PC Hates Me]

12th gen saw Intel split/combine tech. They took the power cruncher cores from the Xeons and mixed them with the power performance cores from the i-core cpus. This gives those cpus a boost in production values over and above the 11th gen. Windows 11 has a scheduler built into the code, a development worked on closely by Microsoft and Intel jointly. What it does is determine the best cores to use per software need.

For games, that means almost total performance core use, the E-cores going unused, the scheduler makes that happen. For stuff like blender, the E-cores see heavy use, with the P-cores seeing less, or scheduled for other tasks.

Thank you for the explanation.

It seems like 11th-gen was kind of a dud, right??? Seems like they drew a lot of power but didn't have a big boost in performance.

Thanks again for all the help!!!

 

[Karadjgne]

Yep, Intel standard tick-tock. A 5-10% boost in the second gen tock for the socket, then a 10-20% for the new socket tick. Been that way for the entire i-core series.

 

[jasonf2]

Thanks so much for the well thought out (and clearly articulated) reply.

There are two points I just want to bring up (mostly to see whether I am over-thinking things)

1) My main reasoning for going with Intel 12th gen over a comparable AMD-based system is that my video program of choice (DaVinci Resolve) works better with Intel (and Nvidia) than with AMD processors or graphics cards. DaVinci Resolve can utilize the iGPU in 11th- and 12th-gen Intel processors for encoding and decoding lots of codecs that it can't do with AMD cpu's. Hence that is why I am leaning HEAVILY toward Alder Lake or even possibly 13th gen intel cpu.

NOTE: I sometimes think about going the "cheap route" and buying a used business desktop machine. There are some i7-10700 (non-K) HP desktops around here for $400 that have typical business specs (500GB nvme and a 1TB spinning HDD and NO graphics card). I am sure it would be a lot faster than my i7-6700 once I throw in my current RTX 2060 super and my 650 Watt Gold EVGA power supply (if it will fit, might need to invest in a hack saw) and be done with it. But I anticipate that the ability to encode / decode video codecs is something I am going to want further down the road.

2) Your comment about Windows 11 has me a bit concerned beause a) I have no idea what the task scheduler is, and b) I normally dual boot in to Linux and Windows 10 (I use Linux for pretty much everything and I would LOVE to didtch windows altogether and just use Linux. I understand that basically everything is designed for maximum performance under Windows, but I have heard some ugly rumors about Microsoft making it harder for computer manufacturers to allow consumers to install Linux / Unix on their machines. This does worry me.

Anyway, thanks for your elaboration.

The task scheduler is the part of the OS that allocates where each of the task threads go for processing. Prior to Alder Lake all of the cores were the same. So all the scheduler had to do was pick the least loaded core. When you start to throw in P cores and E cores the scheduler now has to decide which workload task types are better suited to a high efficiency slower core or a high performance core. Windows 11's scheduler was redesigned from 10s to do just that. So if you are running anything with a big-little core configuration you will want to run Windows 11. I am not sure on how linux handles it in the latest builds, perhaps someone else here that follows linux can be of more help there.

 

[logainofhades]

Thanks for the reply.

But why go with the 12700 and b660 over the 12600K and a z690?

Not saying I disagree with you (in fact, that is the way I am leaning). Just curious as to why YOU would do it.

Thanks in advance.

Better long term choice. Performance isn't really much less than a 12700k.

Intel Core i7-12700 + Intel B660 Review

Today we have a combo review of all-new Intel hardware, our first look at the affordable Intel B660 platform, the non-K Core i7-12700 and Intel's latest box...

www.techspot.com

 

[My PC Hates Me]

The task scheduler is the part of the OS that allocates where each of the task threads go for processing. Prior to Alder Lake all of the cores were the same. So all the scheduler had to do was pick the least loaded core. When you start to throw in P cores and E cores the scheduler now has to decide which workload task types are better suited to a high efficiency slower core or a high performance core. Windows 11's scheduler was redesigned from 10s to do just that. So if you are running anything with a big-little core configuration you will want to run Windows 11. I am not sure on how linux handles it in the latest builds, perhaps someone else here that follows linux can be of more help there.

Thank you for the reply.

Now I am starting to understand it a bit more.

I guess for most of my productivity apps I will end up using Windows 11.

Thanks.

 

[My PC Hates Me]

Better long term choice. Performance isn't really much less than a 12700k.

Intel Core i7-12700 + Intel B660 Review

Today we have a combo review of all-new Intel hardware, our first look at the affordable Intel B660 platform, the non-K Core i7-12700 and Intel's latest box...

www.techspot.com

Thank you for the reply and thanks for the link. I will read through that page now.