hughyhunter
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JJBlanche I would have to say that the single PCI-e on either chipset doesnt make a difference if have no assperations of crossfire or upgradablility. You will however with the P35 not be able to upgrade to newer penryn's next year or the year after that and so on. P35 is only DDR2 whereas the x38 is DDR3 compatable on all mobos.
If I were you and you want either one or the other than like I said get the Foxconn X38A so that you can run the much faster memory DDR3 in the future when the prices subside (assuming you dont have 550 bucks to spend on memory right now) and get DDR2 now. The X38 is faster/better/bigger/fatter than the P35 in both speed and speed and speed to answer your question.
Dont worry about the x48 as it is not that much different than the x38. Just get the Foxconn and you'll be happy. A buddy of mine just bought one and fell in love with his PC all over again.
If I were you and you want either one or the other than like I said get the Foxconn X38A so that you can run the much faster memory DDR3 in the future when the prices subside (assuming you dont have 550 bucks to spend on memory right now) and get DDR2 now. The X38 is faster/better/bigger/fatter than the P35 in both speed and speed and speed to answer your question.
Dont worry about the x48 as it is not that much different than the x38. Just get the Foxconn and you'll be happy. A buddy of mine just bought one and fell in love with his PC all over again.
JJ, any particular reason you aren't interesting in CrossFire? (or SLI) I don't know much about the Foxconn board hughy suggested, but if you just want the single GPU I might go with a cheap P35 board like the GA-p35-DS3L (about $100). Great overclocker, just doesn't have the bells and whistles like Firewire.
That's what I would do if you don't like adding/changing components over time. ie., you have no desire to add in DDR3 when it's affordable, add in a 2nd GPU, upgrade the CPU, etc. But if you DO want to do these things, you need to consider X38 boards for their compatibility with 45nm CPUs, DDR3, and 2xGPUs at 16x speed. Descisions, decisions, eh?
As for what I was thinking about the A64 Black Box, my interest has been peaked by some posts at the Anandtech forums that are saying the A64 X2s love the 790FX boards for their HTT 3.0 and memory tweakability...so I'm eagerly waiting their article on this, which looks like we wont get until Monday as manufacturers keep sending in new Bios updates that force them to retest (nothing to complain about I guess hah).
http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview.aspx?catid=29&threadid=2120218&enterthread=y
If the increase in the HyperTransport Tech from 2.0 to 3.0 in the 790 boards lets us OC the Black Editions even more I'll be super duper excited and will pull the trigger on that asap and wait it out for AMDs revised/next Quads.
That's what I would do if you don't like adding/changing components over time. ie., you have no desire to add in DDR3 when it's affordable, add in a 2nd GPU, upgrade the CPU, etc. But if you DO want to do these things, you need to consider X38 boards for their compatibility with 45nm CPUs, DDR3, and 2xGPUs at 16x speed. Descisions, decisions, eh?
As for what I was thinking about the A64 Black Box, my interest has been peaked by some posts at the Anandtech forums that are saying the A64 X2s love the 790FX boards for their HTT 3.0 and memory tweakability...so I'm eagerly waiting their article on this, which looks like we wont get until Monday as manufacturers keep sending in new Bios updates that force them to retest (nothing to complain about I guess hah).
http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview.aspx?catid=29&threadid=2120218&enterthread=y
If the increase in the HyperTransport Tech from 2.0 to 3.0 in the 790 boards lets us OC the Black Editions even more I'll be super duper excited and will pull the trigger on that asap and wait it out for AMDs revised/next Quads.
hughyhunter
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Jevon... I like that some people are finally making sense out of this spyder platform. I think that it's going to be the next best thing in 08-09. There is not way that intel/nvidia can match the compatibility platform that amd/ati offer unless they merge like the later has. If I were you (you probably already know this) get the 5000+ black box and overlock the heck out of that thing. It is more overclockable than the 6400+ due to it's smaller 65nm processor and in my opinion a better buy than the larger. If you were to do that by the time 2nd half 08 roles around we'll be seeing wicked fast black box quad core's and the big R700 that amd has been talking about for a few days now. I would expect to see speeds of processors/motherboards/gpu's to more than double in the next year from amd/ati... dont know if I can say that from intel and nvidia though.
As for the aformentioned P35/x38 discussion... If you have no intentions of dual gpu's (which there is nothing wrong with that) than still get the x38 just because it's more future proof. The Foxconn offers a killer board that allows you to run ddr2 right now and later you can still have ddr3 because it has two slot's for ddr3. Not to mention it's 2.0 pci-e compliant.
As for the aformentioned P35/x38 discussion... If you have no intentions of dual gpu's (which there is nothing wrong with that) than still get the x38 just because it's more future proof. The Foxconn offers a killer board that allows you to run ddr2 right now and later you can still have ddr3 because it has two slot's for ddr3. Not to mention it's 2.0 pci-e compliant.
athenaesword
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don't know about the market prices over there, but where i'm at, x38s cost about twice as much as p35s. would it be prudent then, to purchase an x38 now? also, p35 ds3r supports ddr3 ram if i'm not wrong.
got a coupla questions here:
ds3p has 2x PCIE x16 slots, but can it SLI? and is the All Copper Silent Pipe which is the only difference between the DS4 and DS3p, worth the extra cost? what does it even do?
say i were getting a new e6750 and a mb, and if i get a p35, which should i get?
one last thing. sli performances have not been significant enough to justify getting 2 mid-high end cards over 1 high end card so would this change in the reasonable future so as to make SLI mainstream?
please pardon my questions, i'm trying to learn. =)
got a coupla questions here:
ds3p has 2x PCIE x16 slots, but can it SLI? and is the All Copper Silent Pipe which is the only difference between the DS4 and DS3p, worth the extra cost? what does it even do?
say i were getting a new e6750 and a mb, and if i get a p35, which should i get?
one last thing. sli performances have not been significant enough to justify getting 2 mid-high end cards over 1 high end card so would this change in the reasonable future so as to make SLI mainstream?
please pardon my questions, i'm trying to learn. =)
I think with SLI it will only work on the nVidia motherboards (ie, 680i and such). The copper pipe is there to basically absorb and dissipate heat, which means the comp is cooler and should give a little more overclocking room. Not sure about other differences as I didn't look much into those boards when I was looking @ P35.
It depends what you need the board to do. If you're only using a few hard drives, don't need firewire, etc., and only using one GPU then I still like the $100 Gigabyte P35-DS3L for it's overclockability. Do you already have an nVidia GPU? If you do and want to SLI, you'll have to check out their motherboards (which I'm not very knowledgeable about, but check out the forums here and @ Anandtech.com).
nVidia and ATI have both said multiple card systems are their focus going forward, so I think SLI (tri-sli) and especially CrossFireX (quad-fire) with the 790FX motherboards are they way to go if you get motherboards that can use them at full speed.
It depends what you need the board to do. If you're only using a few hard drives, don't need firewire, etc., and only using one GPU then I still like the $100 Gigabyte P35-DS3L for it's overclockability. Do you already have an nVidia GPU? If you do and want to SLI, you'll have to check out their motherboards (which I'm not very knowledgeable about, but check out the forums here and @ Anandtech.com).
nVidia and ATI have both said multiple card systems are their focus going forward, so I think SLI (tri-sli) and especially CrossFireX (quad-fire) with the 790FX motherboards are they way to go if you get motherboards that can use them at full speed.
the awnser to the question p35 vs x38 is really really simple.
and i am going to place it like topics:
-x38 is a bit faster even for today's cpus
-> http://www.tomshardware.com/2007/09/26/intel_x38_chipset/
-x38 supports pci express 2.0
-> note that 8800 series from nvidia and HD 2900 XT from ATi both have pci express 1.0 and will not have the boost from pci express 2.0 bandwidth.
-x38 with 2x PCI-Express X16 vs 2x PCI-Express 8x in p35
-> its a real puch in the stomach that x38 is supporting ati's cross fire and not the nvidia's sli since its the fastest pick atm. But cross fire will benefit a lot from these x 16 pci express slots since new graphics card will come and supporting both pci express 2.0 and cross fire will really be a good boost.
-x38 is more expensive but remember, it supports pci express 2.0, its faster for new cpus to come and it will last longer than the p35.
so x38 its the best choise atm
and i am going to place it like topics:
-x38 is a bit faster even for today's cpus
-> http://www.tomshardware.com/2007/09/26/intel_x38_chipset/
-x38 supports pci express 2.0
-> note that 8800 series from nvidia and HD 2900 XT from ATi both have pci express 1.0 and will not have the boost from pci express 2.0 bandwidth.
-x38 with 2x PCI-Express X16 vs 2x PCI-Express 8x in p35
-> its a real puch in the stomach that x38 is supporting ati's cross fire and not the nvidia's sli since its the fastest pick atm. But cross fire will benefit a lot from these x 16 pci express slots since new graphics card will come and supporting both pci express 2.0 and cross fire will really be a good boost.
-x38 is more expensive but remember, it supports pci express 2.0, its faster for new cpus to come and it will last longer than the p35.
so x38 its the best choise atm
hughyhunter
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Performance wise P35 and X38 are virtually equal with DDR2. X38 may overclock slightly better at the extreme end, but who really needs a 500MHz FSB?
What X38 will give you is PCIe 2.0 (not all that exciting) and better Crossfire support (which you don't seem to be interested in).
My advice is to get a quality DDR2 P35 board and enjoy it until Intel releases its Nehalem processors next year. Between now and then PCIe 1.1 should not be a bottleneck, and DDR3 prices will have dropped considerably.
What X38 will give you is PCIe 2.0 (not all that exciting) and better Crossfire support (which you don't seem to be interested in).
My advice is to get a quality DDR2 P35 board and enjoy it until Intel releases its Nehalem processors next year. Between now and then PCIe 1.1 should not be a bottleneck, and DDR3 prices will have dropped considerably.
hughyhunter
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I agree with this... If you arent interested in two+ gpus then wait for the 8800GTS to come out in Dec and you should have a good performing mid-high end card... something that is near equal to the Ultra's and that will outperform the 8800GTX
A decent x38 board is almost 2.5x more expensive than gigabyte's $100 P35 board, which is too good for its price to pass up imo. Motherboard quality has practically no influence on performance, so when the time comes you can just use that $150 you saved to buy a newer and better motherboard than the x38, when everything is no longer compatible with the P35.
jjblanche
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The only reason I'd go with an X38 is due to the PCIe 2.0 vs. 1.1 bottleneck. I have no interest in running SLI or Crossfire. Do you think the current PCIe 1.1 standard will provide a bottleneck for cards that would come out over the next year or so?
I am eyeing up the Foxconn board, but, as I said, only for PCIe 2.0. So, basically, I'd be paying an extra $130 for PCIe 2.0 compatibility. I don't mind doing this, but only if the PCIe 1.1 will prove to be a bottleneck.
I am eyeing up the Foxconn board, but, as I said, only for PCIe 2.0. So, basically, I'd be paying an extra $130 for PCIe 2.0 compatibility. I don't mind doing this, but only if the PCIe 1.1 will prove to be a bottleneck.
hughyhunter
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I cant imagine that the PCI-E 1.1 will become a bottleneck with the current cards that are out now. I have an 8800GT 2.0 card right now on an older foxconn mobo that is pci-e 1.1 and dont have any bottlenecking problems.
I think that you shouldnt get an X38 mobo based on 2.0 compatability. If I were you I would only get one if you want to have crossfire (in your case you dont), want to have ddr3 in the near future and upgrade to all next years intel chips. If you want to have all of those then get an x38... if not go with the P35.
I think that you shouldnt get an X38 mobo based on 2.0 compatability. If I were you I would only get one if you want to have crossfire (in your case you dont), want to have ddr3 in the near future and upgrade to all next years intel chips. If you want to have all of those then get an x38... if not go with the P35.
athenaesword
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isn't there already an 8800gts? are you refering to the 8800gt 256mb?
and from what i'm reading off the online specs of the 2x 16x pcie cards it's (1x16x and 1x4x), what does that mean?
i've heard great reviews about the MSI p35 Neo2 FR board.. anyone has any thoughts on this?
which boards would you guys recommend if i were OCing an 8800gt on a e6750 OC? don't really need dd3 in the near future, and neither am i intending to SLI/crossfire my mb before my next MB change. i just need a cool motherboard that can support OC for the above cpu and card. i'm looking at either that MSI board above, or the giga p35 or asus p5 boards.
lastly, why 2x 16pcie if it can't SLI?
hughyhunter
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Yes... there already is an 8800GTS out right now. However the card that I am refering to is an 8800GTS with the newer G92 chipset (same as 8800GT) and will come with 512 MB memory and a 256 bus. The card is supposed to be faster than an 8800GTX and very similar in speed to the 8800 Ultra. It will essentially be faster than an Ultra after overclocking (I believe... dont quote me on this) due to it's smaller size processor (65 nm vs. 90nm) So it will be another good Nvidia buy.
The P35 mobo's come with a 2 PCI-e slots. One of them runs at a full 16 lanes or 16x and the other (if you so choose to put another card on your mobo which it doesnt seem like you have any ambitions to) will run at a lower 4x. These are speeds at which your graphics card can transfer information back and forth to other components like system CPU.
The newer X38 has the ability when having multiple GPUs to run both cards at full 16x speeds. But once again since you dont care about crossfire (cant have two nvidia cards on a P35 or X38 because of bios limitations) than that isnt important to your particular situation.
I strongly suggest you read this entire article http://www.tomshardware.com/2007/11/08/dual_vs_quad/ as it discusses dual vs quad proccesors. I would personnally go with the Q6600 like the article suggests and get the correct revision. This will ensure longevity performance wise. Also the article clearly remarks the MSI neo board as the better pick. Last time I checked it was pretty cheap too.
AS for the last question... SLI is a feature only for Nvidia. The only time you can have two Nvidia cards on a single mobo is when the motherboard is certified SLI. Nvidia is the only chipset manufacturer that will allow there own cards to have SLI capabilities. For example the nforce 680i is an Nvidia chipset certified for SLI therefore you can have multiple Nvidia GPU's... You cannot have multiple ATI gpu's on this chipset because the bios will not support it... Next example would be the X38 chipset from intel. Since intel made the chip they cannot just have the rights or technology advantage to have SLI certification (probably more info that i'm not aware of) so they go with crossfire certs for multiple ATI cards on their mobo's.
So the 2 16x pci-e on the intel x38 would be useless for an Nvidia gpu but would be perfect for an ATI crossfire platform.
If I were you I would read that article and after you are sold on it get the neo mobo and q6600 and wait a few weeks to grab a G92 8800GT/GTS... Also go with the g.skill 2x2 gig ddr2 800 set.
The P35 mobo's come with a 2 PCI-e slots. One of them runs at a full 16 lanes or 16x and the other (if you so choose to put another card on your mobo which it doesnt seem like you have any ambitions to) will run at a lower 4x. These are speeds at which your graphics card can transfer information back and forth to other components like system CPU.
The newer X38 has the ability when having multiple GPUs to run both cards at full 16x speeds. But once again since you dont care about crossfire (cant have two nvidia cards on a P35 or X38 because of bios limitations) than that isnt important to your particular situation.
I strongly suggest you read this entire article http://www.tomshardware.com/2007/11/08/dual_vs_quad/ as it discusses dual vs quad proccesors. I would personnally go with the Q6600 like the article suggests and get the correct revision. This will ensure longevity performance wise. Also the article clearly remarks the MSI neo board as the better pick. Last time I checked it was pretty cheap too.
AS for the last question... SLI is a feature only for Nvidia. The only time you can have two Nvidia cards on a single mobo is when the motherboard is certified SLI. Nvidia is the only chipset manufacturer that will allow there own cards to have SLI capabilities. For example the nforce 680i is an Nvidia chipset certified for SLI therefore you can have multiple Nvidia GPU's... You cannot have multiple ATI gpu's on this chipset because the bios will not support it... Next example would be the X38 chipset from intel. Since intel made the chip they cannot just have the rights or technology advantage to have SLI certification (probably more info that i'm not aware of) so they go with crossfire certs for multiple ATI cards on their mobo's.
So the 2 16x pci-e on the intel x38 would be useless for an Nvidia gpu but would be perfect for an ATI crossfire platform.
If I were you I would read that article and after you are sold on it get the neo mobo and q6600 and wait a few weeks to grab a G92 8800GT/GTS... Also go with the g.skill 2x2 gig ddr2 800 set.
Hughy pretty much wrapped that up perfectly, just wanted to add a note about the PCIe 16x and wording.
With the 3800s out now quite a few sites are doing Crossfire reviews on them, and they're stating that they are doing them on two PCI-Express 16x slots, even on P35 motherboards. This is true, HOWEVER what is important is the SPEED the 16x slots run at, otherwise known as "electrical" 16x. These reviews are pretty mislead IMO, as 2 3850s pretty much equal one 8800 GTX on an Intel X38 or AMD 790FX which both can have two 16x "elecrical" slots, whereas P35 motherboards only have one, period. Any other 16x slots they have will only be 4x electrical (possibly 8x?).
That can be pretty confusing to say the least, but something to be aware of. Basical, only X38 and 790FX = Crossfire at FULL speed. You should either check out Newegg.com or NCIX.com or the manufacturer's site and quickly search the mothboard you're interested and check out the specs to make sure.. here's 3 quick examples:
P35 Board:
Expansion Slots:
1 x PCI-E X16, 1 x PCI-E X16 (x4 bandwidth), 1 x PCI-E X1, 3 x PCI
--- "bandwidth" = electrical. that "1 x PCI-E X1" is a PCIe slot running at 1x electrical speed/power
X38 Board:
Expansion Slots:
2 x PCIe2.0 x16 (both @ x16 mode) supports CrossFire Technology
3 x PCIe x1
2 x PCI
--- "mode" = electrical.
790FX:
Expansion Slots:
4 x PCIe x16 with ATI CrossFireX support, @ dual x16; tripple x16 / x8 / x8; or quad x8 modes
2 x PCI 2.2
Support PCIe 2.0 / 1.0 Architecture
--- "mode" = electrical
This 790FX board is saying it will run:
2 GPUs @ 2*16x electrical
3 GPUs @ 1*16x + 2*8x
4 GPUS @ 4*4x
If you want to SLI the nVidia cards then you need to get an nVidia based mobo. Easiest way to start this search is by googling for nVidia SLI Ready motherboards, or checking out e-tailers like NCIX and browsing their SLI section and reading forum posts about various boards (start with brands + price u like, inevitably you'll run into comparison questions about other similar/better/cheaper/etc boards)
happy hunting http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php?minorcatid=107&subminorcatid=132
With the 3800s out now quite a few sites are doing Crossfire reviews on them, and they're stating that they are doing them on two PCI-Express 16x slots, even on P35 motherboards. This is true, HOWEVER what is important is the SPEED the 16x slots run at, otherwise known as "electrical" 16x. These reviews are pretty mislead IMO, as 2 3850s pretty much equal one 8800 GTX on an Intel X38 or AMD 790FX which both can have two 16x "elecrical" slots, whereas P35 motherboards only have one, period. Any other 16x slots they have will only be 4x electrical (possibly 8x?).
That can be pretty confusing to say the least, but something to be aware of. Basical, only X38 and 790FX = Crossfire at FULL speed. You should either check out Newegg.com or NCIX.com or the manufacturer's site and quickly search the mothboard you're interested and check out the specs to make sure.. here's 3 quick examples:
P35 Board:
Expansion Slots:
1 x PCI-E X16, 1 x PCI-E X16 (x4 bandwidth), 1 x PCI-E X1, 3 x PCI
--- "bandwidth" = electrical. that "1 x PCI-E X1" is a PCIe slot running at 1x electrical speed/power
X38 Board:
Expansion Slots:
2 x PCIe2.0 x16 (both @ x16 mode) supports CrossFire Technology
3 x PCIe x1
2 x PCI
--- "mode" = electrical.
790FX:
Expansion Slots:
4 x PCIe x16 with ATI CrossFireX support, @ dual x16; tripple x16 / x8 / x8; or quad x8 modes
2 x PCI 2.2
Support PCIe 2.0 / 1.0 Architecture
--- "mode" = electrical
This 790FX board is saying it will run:
2 GPUs @ 2*16x electrical
3 GPUs @ 1*16x + 2*8x
4 GPUS @ 4*4x
If you want to SLI the nVidia cards then you need to get an nVidia based mobo. Easiest way to start this search is by googling for nVidia SLI Ready motherboards, or checking out e-tailers like NCIX and browsing their SLI section and reading forum posts about various boards (start with brands + price u like, inevitably you'll run into comparison questions about other similar/better/cheaper/etc boards)
happy hunting
http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php?minorcatid=107&subminorcatid=132
hughyhunter
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Just a quick question Jevon: Ok... x38 and 790fx support crossfire (in other words you can have more than 1 ATI video cards) but does P35 support crossfire? It obviously must because it definitley doesnt support Nvidia and why else would they have two pci-e slot's if it doesnt support crossfire. It just doesnt support crossfire at it's full potential like the other two boards right?
Another question: Nvidia cards can only run in SLI on SLI certified boards which are nforce chipsets... This part I'm sure of... However I was wondering if all of the newer nforce chipsets like 570,590,650,680 support the same pci-e "electrical" speeds that the intel x38 and amd 790fx do. In other words do the nvidia chipsets have both slots than run in full 16x modes?
Just a clarification question for me and the others that read this post.
Another question: Nvidia cards can only run in SLI on SLI certified boards which are nforce chipsets... This part I'm sure of... However I was wondering if all of the newer nforce chipsets like 570,590,650,680 support the same pci-e "electrical" speeds that the intel x38 and amd 790fx do. In other words do the nvidia chipsets have both slots than run in full 16x modes?
Just a clarification question for me and the others that read this post.
athenaesword
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okay so i don't intend to sli or crossfire within the year, and i need the computer basically for gaming. gonna OC the CPU and gfx
i have these specs in mind:
msi p35 neo2fr/gigabyte p35 ds3L (recommendations based on my above stated needs?)
e6750
8800gts g92 (when it comes out) / 8800gt 256mb (better price/performance ratio?)
power ( i'm not sure how much i need yet any recommendations?)
regarding the graphics card, do you guys have an estimate for when this will be out? and what would the price point be, like around 8800gt or more toward gtx?
hughyhunter i did go through that link you provided, which helped me decide on the msi board, but i still am not thoroughly convinced that i shouldn't get the cheaper gigabyte p35 ds3L, since i dont' intend to use partial crossfire in the future with an msi board. does the msi board allow for more OC room?
with regards to the cpu, i believe the link clearly showed that the e6750 excelled over the q6600 at gaming, which is the whole point of me getting an upgrade. it is also much cheaper, and i don't think a 5% performance increase is worth it.
lastly, do i need to get coolers for my cpu and gfx if i intend to overclock?
sorry if i seem to be asking questions that sound like i could get them from reading guides. i am reading as much as i can these 2 days but i dont think i'm at the point where i can safely say i know what i want to get, and hence i'm still hoping for recommendations.
thanks so much for your patience mates.
i have these specs in mind:
msi p35 neo2fr/gigabyte p35 ds3L (recommendations based on my above stated needs?)
e6750
8800gts g92 (when it comes out) / 8800gt 256mb (better price/performance ratio?)
power ( i'm not sure how much i need yet any recommendations?)
regarding the graphics card, do you guys have an estimate for when this will be out? and what would the price point be, like around 8800gt or more toward gtx?
hughyhunter i did go through that link you provided, which helped me decide on the msi board, but i still am not thoroughly convinced that i shouldn't get the cheaper gigabyte p35 ds3L, since i dont' intend to use partial crossfire in the future with an msi board. does the msi board allow for more OC room?
with regards to the cpu, i believe the link clearly showed that the e6750 excelled over the q6600 at gaming, which is the whole point of me getting an upgrade. it is also much cheaper, and i don't think a 5% performance increase is worth it.
lastly, do i need to get coolers for my cpu and gfx if i intend to overclock?
sorry if i seem to be asking questions that sound like i could get them from reading guides. i am reading as much as i can these 2 days but i dont think i'm at the point where i can safely say i know what i want to get, and hence i'm still hoping for recommendations.
thanks so much for your patience mates.
athenaesword
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Sure!
Motherboard: Gigabyte DS3L
CPU: G0 Q6600 definitely. You will be overclocking, so the clockspeed difference between this and the e6750 is irrelevant.
GPU: Either wait for the g92 GTS or get an eVGA 8800gt so you can Step-Up if the GTS is worth the extra $
PSU: A good 500+W PSU will be enough. Some brands to look at are Corsair, Seasonic, Silverstone, Enermax, PC Power & Cooling. Basically any PSUs Tier 3 or higher on this list.
Motherboard: Gigabyte DS3L
CPU: G0 Q6600 definitely. You will be overclocking, so the clockspeed difference between this and the e6750 is irrelevant.
GPU: Either wait for the g92 GTS or get an eVGA 8800gt so you can Step-Up if the GTS is worth the extra $
PSU: A good 500+W PSU will be enough. Some brands to look at are Corsair, Seasonic, Silverstone, Enermax, PC Power & Cooling. Basically any PSUs Tier 3 or higher on this list.
Hughy, yep you're understand right; P35's do not support Crossfire at FULL speeds, ie BOTH PCIe 16x slots actually running at 16x electrical. Often what you see on P35 boards is several PCIe 16x slots, EACH of which can handle a GPU. However, once you start to Crossfire (remember, can only SLI on nVidia motherboards as you know), the second and third PCIe slots on P35s do not run at 16x electrical, they usually run at 4x and some at 8x.
PCIe 16x slots which are running at 8x electrical should only start to bottleneck a 8800 GTX if I remember correctly. So you should be in good shape if you can find a P35 with two PCIe 16x slots, one running in 16x mode/electrical, and another in 8x mode/electrical. I imagine newer cards like the G92 8800 GTS coming on Dec. 3rd and the ATI 3870x2 coming in January will push the limits of 8x, so going X38 is definately the way to do it for Crossfire (or 790FX for AMD CPUs).
As for the nVidia SLI chipsets, I'm pretty sure all of the 680i motherboards have two PCIe 16x slots running at 16x electrical like the X38 and 790FX boards do. The 650i motherboards seems to run two PCIe 16x slots at 8x electrical each. Again though, once you've picked your motherboard of choice, make sure you read it's specs carefully under "Expansion Slots" to make sure you really are getting two full speeds slots if you go this path.
http://www.nvidia.com/page/nforce_600i_tech_specs.html
Athenaesword, I'm basically just going to repeat what Homerdog said. I'd snag the P35-DS3L for $100 because it's known as a good overclocker without all the extra jazz you won't likely need.
On the GPU front, the new GTS will most likely be priced between the 8800 GT and GTX, unless nVida wants to shake up prices a bit to be more inline with ATI's 3870 - but on the retail level we may not notice it until supply evens out (demand will likely keep prices high).
I'd also go with the Q6600 over the 6750 because the Q6600 will overclock to 3.0Ghz ridiculously easy on a P35 (or X38 or 680i) because those boards run natively at 1333 fsb while the Q6600 runs at 1066. This means to OC from 2.4 to 3.0 (25%!), literally ALL you need to do in BIOS is change the fsb to 1333... no voltage changes or anything, and a Q6600 @ 3.0Ghz = QX6800 stock (a $1,100+ CPU!). Great value there, plus you can probably squeeze out a few hundred more Mhz with decent air cooling (Tuniq Tower 120, or a Thermalright ULTRA-120 that needs a 120mm fan purchased seperately).
PSU: I agree with something around 500W and good brand (most important). Price shop around the brands Homerdog listed, I would start with the 520W Corsair and then check out Silverstone. Antec is another name to consider, although definately read a review or two on any Antec you look at as they have a wide variety of brands - a 500W TruePower doesnt perform the same as a 500W Earthwatts, for example.
PCIe 16x slots which are running at 8x electrical should only start to bottleneck a 8800 GTX if I remember correctly. So you should be in good shape if you can find a P35 with two PCIe 16x slots, one running in 16x mode/electrical, and another in 8x mode/electrical. I imagine newer cards like the G92 8800 GTS coming on Dec. 3rd and the ATI 3870x2 coming in January will push the limits of 8x, so going X38 is definately the way to do it for Crossfire (or 790FX for AMD CPUs).
As for the nVidia SLI chipsets, I'm pretty sure all of the 680i motherboards have two PCIe 16x slots running at 16x electrical like the X38 and 790FX boards do. The 650i motherboards seems to run two PCIe 16x slots at 8x electrical each. Again though, once you've picked your motherboard of choice, make sure you read it's specs carefully under "Expansion Slots" to make sure you really are getting two full speeds slots if you go this path.
http://www.nvidia.com/page/nforce_600i_tech_specs.html
Athenaesword, I'm basically just going to repeat what Homerdog said. I'd snag the P35-DS3L for $100 because it's known as a good overclocker without all the extra jazz you won't likely need.
On the GPU front, the new GTS will most likely be priced between the 8800 GT and GTX, unless nVida wants to shake up prices a bit to be more inline with ATI's 3870 - but on the retail level we may not notice it until supply evens out (demand will likely keep prices high).
I'd also go with the Q6600 over the 6750 because the Q6600 will overclock to 3.0Ghz ridiculously easy on a P35 (or X38 or 680i) because those boards run natively at 1333 fsb while the Q6600 runs at 1066. This means to OC from 2.4 to 3.0 (25%!), literally ALL you need to do in BIOS is change the fsb to 1333... no voltage changes or anything, and a Q6600 @ 3.0Ghz = QX6800 stock (a $1,100+ CPU!). Great value there, plus you can probably squeeze out a few hundred more Mhz with decent air cooling (Tuniq Tower 120, or a Thermalright ULTRA-120 that needs a 120mm fan purchased seperately).
PSU: I agree with something around 500W and good brand (most important). Price shop around the brands Homerdog listed, I would start with the 520W Corsair and then check out Silverstone. Antec is another name to consider, although definately read a review or two on any Antec you look at as they have a wide variety of brands - a 500W TruePower doesnt perform the same as a 500W Earthwatts, for example.
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