Xbox 360 - Cost as a Factor

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.sony-playstation2,alt.games.video.xbox (More info?)

"Fred Liken" <fredliken@toocool4school.com> wrote in
news:429dd3c5$0$90608$bb4e3ad8@newscene.com:

> "Buckaroo Banzai" <blackhole34@yahoo.com> wrote
>
>>>> I'm not a fanboy or anything, but I thought that the PS2 sold more
>>>> units than the original PS... I could be wrong about that, but if
>>>> it's true, then how can it be said that Microsoft affected Sony's
>>>> market share at all?
>>>
>>> Market share isn't about past performances, but rather how many of
>>> the systems sold are yours. Having XBox not only extended the
>>> market some, but also diluted PS2's market share, you see?
>>
>> Yeah, that's makes sense.
>
> BTW, I found some numbers, although rough.
>
> The PSX sold 100,000,000 of the total 142,890,000 systems sold, for
> 70% of the market. Of the PS2, 81,390,000 of 129,920,000 for 63% of
> the market. So, the competition increased from 42,980,000 to
> 48,530,000. Adjusted to total, it's 53,374,782, so the projected
> competition increased 24% where as Sony didn't slip much at all, if
> any (slightly stale numbers), but the competition increased sales and
> diluted the market share of Sony.

Can I ask where you got the numbers for the non-PS2 systems for this
generation? I got these from a forum post at pcvsconsole.com, they are
the numbers as of the end of 2004:

http://forum.pcvsconsole.com/viewthread.php?tid=8498&page=2

---

North America
PlayStation 2 - 32.86 million
Xbox - 13.2 million
GameCube - 10.11 million

Japan / Asia
PlayStation 2 - 19.47 million
Xbox - 1.7 million
GameCube - 3.78 million

Europe / PAL
PlayStation 2 - 29.06 million
Xbox - 5.0 million
GameCube - 4.13 million

Worldwide
PlayStation 2 - 81.39 million
Xbox - 19.9 million
GameCube - 18.03 million


---

Last I read was that MS was expecting to have shipped (not sold) 22
million consoles worldwide by June 2005
(http://www.gamesindustry.biz/press_release.php?aid=6520), so the 19.9
million figure for end of 2004 sounds alright, and the Gamecube numbers
look fine. The PS2 number matches yours. From those numbers, it looks
like Sony has roughly 68% of the market as of the end of 2004.

On top of this, the Xbox is now effectively discontinued due to the
nvidia announcement. So the number of Xbox units sold will probably not
exceed 22 million or so, and the PS2 will likely continue to sell
reasonably well for another two years or so, assuming it follows the same
sales pattern as the PSOne as it has been doing. Therefore, Sony's
market share for this generation will only go up from this point on,
unless GC sales really pick up, and Sony will probably end the generation
at ~70% or more again.

It looks like Microsoft took Sega's former share of the console market,
and took a big bite out of Nintendo's market share, more than anything
else. (The Saturn and N64 sold roughly 10 million and 30 million,
respectively)

Interestingly, it looks like this generation will have only sold as much
(or possibly less than) as the previous generation, so no real growth...
I guess you could include the Dreamcast in this generation's sales to
inflate it, but then you'd also have to throw in Jaguar and 3DO sales for
the last generation. A 3 best selling systems vs. 3 best selling systems
comparison is easier.

-bwahhhhhhh

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.sony-playstation2,alt.games.video.xbox (More info?)

"bwahhhh" <dr.eclipse@g*ee*mail.com> wrote in message
news:jzmne.6193$Hj.3641@lakeread02...
> "Fred Liken" <fredliken@toocool4school.com> wrote in
> news:429dd3c5$0$90608$bb4e3ad8@newscene.com:
>
>> "Buckaroo Banzai" <blackhole34@yahoo.com> wrote
>>
>>>>> I'm not a fanboy or anything, but I thought that the PS2 sold more
>>>>> units than the original PS... I could be wrong about that, but if
>>>>> it's true, then how can it be said that Microsoft affected Sony's
>>>>> market share at all?
>>>>
>>>> Market share isn't about past performances, but rather how many of
>>>> the systems sold are yours. Having XBox not only extended the
>>>> market some, but also diluted PS2's market share, you see?
>>>
>>> Yeah, that's makes sense.
>>
>> BTW, I found some numbers, although rough.
>>
>> The PSX sold 100,000,000 of the total 142,890,000 systems sold, for
>> 70% of the market. Of the PS2, 81,390,000 of 129,920,000 for 63% of
>> the market. So, the competition increased from 42,980,000 to
>> 48,530,000. Adjusted to total, it's 53,374,782, so the projected
>> competition increased 24% where as Sony didn't slip much at all, if
>> any (slightly stale numbers), but the competition increased sales and
>> diluted the market share of Sony.
>
> Can I ask where you got the numbers for the non-PS2 systems for this
> generation? I got these from a forum post at pcvsconsole.com, they are
> the numbers as of the end of 2004:
>
> http://forum.pcvsconsole.com/viewthread.php?tid=8498&page=2

> Worldwide
> PlayStation 2 - 81.39 million
> Xbox - 19.9 million
> GameCube - 18.03 million

That's about right, but there's the 10million Dreamcasts not in that
listing.

81.39 + 19.9 + 18.03 + 10 is 129.32million, roughly the same number, no?

> Last I read was that MS was expecting to have shipped (not sold) 22
> million consoles worldwide by June 2005
> (http://www.gamesindustry.biz/press_release.php?aid=6520), so the 19.9
> million figure for end of 2004 sounds alright, and the Gamecube numbers
> look fine. The PS2 number matches yours. From those numbers, it looks
> like Sony has roughly 68% of the market as of the end of 2004.

Yes, without the DC it is down to 68% from 70%.

> On top of this, the Xbox is now effectively discontinued due to the
> nvidia announcement. So the number of Xbox units sold will probably not
> exceed 22 million or so, and the PS2 will likely continue to sell
> reasonably well for another two years or so, assuming it follows the same
> sales pattern as the PSOne as it has been doing. Therefore, Sony's
> market share for this generation will only go up from this point on,
> unless GC sales really pick up, and Sony will probably end the generation
> at ~70% or more again.

Perhaps. We'll see.

> It looks like Microsoft took Sega's former share of the console market,
> and took a big bite out of Nintendo's market share, more than anything
> else. (The Saturn and N64 sold roughly 10 million and 30 million,
> respectively)

Saturn was under 10million, but close and the N64 was about 32.9 million,
IIRC.

> Interestingly, it looks like this generation will have only sold as much
> (or possibly less than) as the previous generation, so no real growth...
> I guess you could include the Dreamcast in this generation's sales to
> inflate it, but then you'd also have to throw in Jaguar and 3DO sales for
> the last generation.

The 3DO was, but the Jag wasn't. It sold under 10k, so it hardly would
affect the percentage which is rounded. It is also debatable as to which
generation it was in, the PSX, N64, and the ilk or the SNES, SegaCD, etc.

> A 3 best selling systems vs. 3 best selling systems
> comparison is easier.

Easier, but not complete.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.sony-playstation2,alt.games.video.xbox (More info?)

Fred Liken wrote:

> I noticed you didn't have Nintendo in that list. Guess you'll be
> missing out on the Nintendo games because of your borderline
> psychotic silliness?

If the Revolution doesn't turn out to be the next Virtual Boy, I'll probably
get one just to play next-gen Zelda and... well, maybe Metroid... yep,
that's about it. I love Nintendo, but they've just about niched themselves
right out of the business.

> If the XBox 2 has a game that I want, I'll get it.

Won't it burn your skin to touch it, like a crucifix to a vampire?

> That's just me though, I'm a gamer, not a system zealot that's going
> to run out and buy something on launch day even though I don't know
> what games will be out then and what quality those launch games will
> be, but pay a huge premium to do so.

And I'm always anxious to see where gaming is going next, so I like to be on
the ground floor of each new generation. Plus I have a large disposable
income, so $300 on a game machine doesn't mean anything. To each his own.

> lol I love your lashing out at me. Classic nonsense.

Lashing out? Dude, you dog me worse than I dog Bligmerk. Except whereas
Bligmerk is a raving loon who's always good for a laugh, you're just an
illiterate twat. I seriously don't even read most of your posts, because you
just don't matter that much. Try not to be too hurt ok? I'll expect your
reply in the next 10 min or so, there's a good lapdog.

-Z-

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.sony-playstation2,alt.games.video.xbox (More info?)

Fred Liken wrote:

> Ooooooo...... That was hard to watch, Zack getting bitch slapped so
> blatantly in the middle of all these people... There ought to be a
> law... OUCH!

Wow, that went sailing right over your head, didn't it?

-Z-

 

[theone]

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.sony-playstation2,alt.games.video.xbox (More info?)

this is on my tv; emulators playing off the xbox. There are many
emulators with flaws but you'd be hard pressed to find a single one
from the collection you see in my screenshot. I don't keep emulators on
the box that are shaky (i.e. N64). These puppies are great. You can do
a whole slew of stuff, play againts people on the net, save the game
whereever you want and a bunch of graphic filters (SuperSai,
Anisotropic etc.). I can't honestly tell you I see a difference
between any of them though. Anyways MAME (with the games I have
anyways), NES, SNES, Neo Geo, Sega, Genesis, 32x, and sega cd work
flawlessly on the xbox with really cool front ends.

Really when you think about it, no original system plays games perfect.
You won't be blowing and loading game cartridges on my NES emulator,
that's for sure, But I hardly play any of it anymore, just for
nostalgia. Perhaps I'll incorporate more.

FYI, you can see a few more screenshots (and a little more brief
insight on some of the xbox softwre out there) on my new school site.

http://www.lc.capellauniversity.edu/~159293/

Enjoy Fweind

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.sony-playstation2,alt.games.video.xbox (More info?)

"Fred Liken" <fredliken@toocool4school.com> wrote in message
news:429e12b0$0$73642$bb4e3ad8@newscene.com...


> > Interestingly, it looks like this generation will have only sold as much
> > (or possibly less than) as the previous generation, so no real growth...
> > I guess you could include the Dreamcast in this generation's sales to
> > inflate it, but then you'd also have to throw in Jaguar and 3DO sales
for
> > the last generation.
>
> The 3DO was, but the Jag wasn't. It sold under 10k, so it hardly would
> affect the percentage which is rounded. It is also debatable as to which
> generation it was in, the PSX, N64, and the ilk or the SNES, SegaCD, etc.
>
> > A 3 best selling systems vs. 3 best selling systems
> > comparison is easier.
>
> Easier, but not complete.


Those numbers are all roughly correct, but you haven't taken into account
that this generation is far from over. The PS1 numbers you have include
millions of units sold after the launch of the PS2. The PS2 will sell
millions this year, as will the Gamecube and Xbox (even with its successor
arriving). This generation doesn't end this year, far from it, and the year
isn't even close to over. So it will end up surpassing last gen by quite a
bit.
By the way, Fred, the Jag sold nearly 10k in Japan. Worldwide it sold
somewhere between 350k and 500k.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.sony-playstation2,alt.games.video.xbox (More info?)

"Leon Dexter" <leondexterNOSPAM@earthlink.net> wrote

>> > Interestingly, it looks like this generation will have only sold as
>> > much
>> > (or possibly less than) as the previous generation, so no real
>> > growth...
>> > I guess you could include the Dreamcast in this generation's sales to
>> > inflate it, but then you'd also have to throw in Jaguar and 3DO sales
> for
>> > the last generation.
>>
>> The 3DO was, but the Jag wasn't. It sold under 10k, so it hardly would
>> affect the percentage which is rounded. It is also debatable as to which
>> generation it was in, the PSX, N64, and the ilk or the SNES, SegaCD, etc.
>>
>> > A 3 best selling systems vs. 3 best selling systems
>> > comparison is easier.
>>
>> Easier, but not complete.
>
> Those numbers are all roughly correct, but you haven't taken into account
> that this generation is far from over.

Actually, I did, but that's besides the point. It was a discussion of what
it is today and how the market share could be lost even if you sold more
consoles than last round, and just went from there.

> The PS1 numbers you have include
> millions of units sold after the launch of the PS2. The PS2 will sell
> millions this year, as will the Gamecube and Xbox (even with its successor
> arriving). This generation doesn't end this year, far from it,

The numbers were stale, true. I stated that much.

> and the year
> isn't even close to over. So it will end up surpassing last gen by quite
> a
> bit.

Yeah, that was the original point that was made. Did you read the thread?

> By the way, Fred, the Jag sold nearly 10k in Japan. Worldwide it sold
> somewhere between 350k and 500k.

Interesting. Do you have a link to those numbers? I don't, obviously,
since mine was so far off. None the less, that would be in the SNES gen,
anyways.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.sony-playstation2,alt.games.video.xbox (More info?)

"Fred Liken" <fredliken@toocool4school.com> wrote in
news:429e12b0$0$73642$bb4e3ad8@newscene.com:

<snip>

>> Interestingly, it looks like this generation will have only sold as
>> much (or possibly less than) as the previous generation, so no real
>> growth... I guess you could include the Dreamcast in this
>> generation's sales to inflate it, but then you'd also have to throw
>> in Jaguar and 3DO sales for the last generation.
>
> The 3DO was, but the Jag wasn't. It sold under 10k, so it hardly
> would affect the percentage which is rounded. It is also debatable as
> to which generation it was in, the PSX, N64, and the ilk or the SNES,
> SegaCD, etc.

Really the same goes for the Dreamcast, since it was discontinued before
either the PSOne or N64 were. It was also discontinued before the GC and
Xbox were even released, so while I loved my DC and technologically I
consider it to belong in the same class as the PS2/Xbox/GC, it's hard to
argue that it really belonged sales-wise when it only got to compete with
the PS2 for one year and not at all with the Xbox and GC... most of the
Dreamcasts sold were sold before the PS2 was even released.


>> A 3 best selling systems vs. 3 best selling systems
>> comparison is easier.
>
> Easier, but not complete.

Just about complete, I'd say. I think that because the Dreamcast was
discontinued so early and all Sega support went to other consoles, that
nearly everyone who bought a DC ended up buying either the PS2, Xbox, or
GC. Therefore it should not be counted when analyzing whether the market
actually expanded or not this generation, or when analyzing whether
Nintendo or Sony's market presence was diluted or not, since it never
really competed with the PS2 and GC on store shelves to begin with.

-bwahhhhhhh

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.sony-playstation2,alt.games.video.xbox (More info?)

bwahhhh <dr.eclipse@g*ee*mail.com> wrote in
news:A4pne.6209$Hj.4495@lakeread02:

> Just about complete, I'd say. I think that because the Dreamcast was
> discontinued so early and all Sega support went to other consoles,
> that nearly everyone who bought a DC ended up buying either the PS2,
> Xbox, or GC. Therefore it should not be counted when analyzing whether
> the market actually expanded or not this generation, or when analyzing
> whether Nintendo or Sony's market presence was diluted or not, since
> it never really competed with the PS2 and GC on store shelves to begin
> with.

Just as a note, I don't mean "never" literally... it really only competed
on shelves for 5 or 6 months, outside of Japan, from November 2001 (PS2
launch in US) to Spring 2001.

 

[Poldy]

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.sony-playstation2,alt.games.video.xbox (More info?)

In article <k72dnd008pWUbQDfRVn-rg@giganews.com>,
"Zackman" <zackman@SPAMISEVILearthling.net> wrote:

> I feel genuinely bad for Sony fanboys. I get to spend an entire year playing
> next-gen console games on Xbox 360 before I get my PS3 on launch day. But
> because of some borderline psychotic obsession with a specific brand of
> video game console, guys (and I use the term loosely) like Fred and Bliggy
> will deny themselves access to the broadest possible gaming experience, just
> because they feel some kind of loyalty to a company that doesn't even know
> they exist.

It's not only fanboys who would wait.

Some people only have money and time for one console.

So they may decide to wait to see how the consoles and games shake out
instead of jumping at the first one.

They could buy the X360, see if PS3 interests them and either keep or
sell the X360 if the PS3 interests them. But that is a big hassle.

There will be good gaming on current gen consoles for awhile, which may
not be a bad option for those without HDTVs yet.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.sony-playstation2,alt.games.video.xbox (More info?)

"Fred Liken" <fredliken@toocool4school.com> wrote in message
news:429e1eb0$0$73650$bb4e3ad8@newscene.com...

So it will end up surpassing last gen by quite
> > a
> > bit.
>
> Yeah, that was the original point that was made. Did you read the thread?

Yeah, that's why I replied. The numbers you guys had didn't show that very
well without projecting a bit.


> > By the way, Fred, the Jag sold nearly 10k in Japan. Worldwide it sold
> > somewhere between 350k and 500k.
>
> Interesting. Do you have a link to those numbers? I don't, obviously,
> since mine was so far off. None the less, that would be in the SNES gen,
> anyways.

What generation it belongs in is debatable--it was trying to be the
beginning of the next gen, it just failed miserably. As for a link, I read
that in a magazine back in the day (wasn't much of an internet then), but
here's a page that claims that Tempest 2000 for the Jag sold 350,000 copies
(I remember reading that they _produced_ that many, not sold them--that
would be one hell of a tie ratio):

http://www.heartbone.com/comphist/Atari.htm

And here's another that claims "the german mag 'Megafun' says that 350000
Jaguars were sold in the USA and
50000 in Europe". That's certainly not where I read it, but there you go.

http://www.atariarchives.org/cfn/12/08/0015.php

The 10k number for Japan, I can't prove, just know I read it somewhere, but
I do have it in print somewhere in my Next Generation magazine collection,
that the Jag sold ~1,000 units at launch in Japan, so it's not hard to
believe it would reach 10 someday. It might be in Next Gen that I read the
500,000 estimate, but I don't have any way of finding that without reading
every page of every issue...

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.sony-playstation2,alt.games.video.xbox (More info?)

"theOne" <cmtipton@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1117659450.521393.254060@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
> Leon,
> Such low numbers for the Jag in Japan. Woud have thought it would have
> sold alot more there.
> But that doesn't detract (only weight) from the fact that......
> You're a freakin' guru of old school systems! Your myriad of game
> systems may serenade these numbers to you (with their combined power of
> course) but do they look as pretty and neat as this
>
> http://tinyurl.com/bhtal
>
> http://tinyurl.com/7r877


About the Jag--nah, it was an American system. They're xenophobic about
electronics, believing (with some reason) that they make better stuff. And
Atari didn't exactly have financial clout--they were poorer than Sega when
the Jag arrived, and trying to sell it killed them.
About your links---thanks. I've never seen that interface. I have PC
emulators for loads of stuff, but no, none of them has a cool interface. I
prefer to play on the real system if I can--no emulator is perfect. Some of
them have cool features, though, like ZSNES, which has a graphical effect
that almost looks like cel-shading. Very nice.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.sony-playstation2,alt.games.video.xbox (More info?)

"bwahhhh" <dr.eclipse@g*ee*mail.com> wrote in message
news:A4pne.6209$Hj.4495@lakeread02...

>>> Interestingly, it looks like this generation will have only sold as
>>> much (or possibly less than) as the previous generation, so no real
>>> growth... I guess you could include the Dreamcast in this
>>> generation's sales to inflate it, but then you'd also have to throw
>>> in Jaguar and 3DO sales for the last generation.
>>
>> The 3DO was, but the Jag wasn't. It sold under 10k, so it hardly
>> would affect the percentage which is rounded. It is also debatable as
>> to which generation it was in, the PSX, N64, and the ilk or the SNES,
>> SegaCD, etc.
>
> Really the same goes for the Dreamcast, since it was discontinued before
> either the PSOne or N64 were.

The DC was the next generation Sega machine. Saturn was their PSX/N64
offering.

>>> A 3 best selling systems vs. 3 best selling systems
>>> comparison is easier.
>>
>> Easier, but not complete.
>
> Just about complete, I'd say. I think that because the Dreamcast was
> discontinued so early and all Sega support went to other consoles, that
> nearly everyone who bought a DC ended up buying either the PS2, Xbox, or
> GC.

That's moot. Many people buy multiple systems.

> Therefore it should not be counted when analyzing whether the market
> actually expanded or not this generation, or when analyzing whether
> Nintendo or Sony's market presence was diluted or not, since it never
> really competed with the PS2 and GC on store shelves to begin with.

Do what you will. I was just illustrating the ability. Could have used
apples and oranges and still made the point.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.sony-playstation2,alt.games.video.xbox (More info?)

"Leon Dexter" <leondexterNOSPAM@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:6%rne.875

> And here's another that claims "the german mag 'Megafun' says that 350000
> Jaguars were sold in the USA and
> 50000 in Europe". That's certainly not where I read it, but there you go.
>
> http://www.atariarchives.org/cfn/12/08/0015.php

Ok, that makes sense. The numbers for the Jag were off.

> The 10k number for Japan, I can't prove, just know I read it somewhere,
> but
> I do have it in print somewhere in my Next Generation magazine collection,
> that the Jag sold ~1,000 units at launch in Japan, so it's not hard to
> believe it would reach 10 someday. It might be in Next Gen that I read
> the
> 500,000 estimate, but I don't have any way of finding that without reading
> every page of every issue...

It's neither here nor there, just curious.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.sony-playstation2,alt.games.video.xbox (More info?)

"Robert P Holley" <holleyrp@delanet.com> wrote in message

> You two should get a room.

lol. You're jealous, I can see.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.sony-playstation2,alt.games.video.xbox (More info?)

"Zackman" <zackman@SPAMISEVILearthling.net> wrote

>> If the XBox 2 has a game that I want, I'll get it.
>
> Won't it burn your skin to touch it, like a crucifix to a vampire?

Not unless they've changed it since the XBox.

>> That's just me though, I'm a gamer, not a system zealot that's going
>> to run out and buy something on launch day even though I don't know
>> what games will be out then and what quality those launch games will
>> be, but pay a huge premium to do so.
>
> And I'm always anxious to see where gaming is going next, so I like to be
> on the ground floor of each new generation. Plus I have a large disposable
> income, so $300 on a game machine doesn't mean anything. To each his own.

I seriously doubt that money is well spent for you. You're probably a
Democrat.

> you're just an illiterate twat.

Huh? You're really hurting for something to flame me for, eh? lol. You
don't even make sense, lap dog.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.sony-playstation2,alt.games.video.xbox (More info?)

"Zackman" <zackman@SPAMISEVILearthling.net> wrote in message
news:rsadnS7nh-XOzgPfRVn-1Q@giganews.com...
> Fred Liken wrote:
>
>> Ooooooo...... That was hard to watch, Zack getting bitch slapped so
>> blatantly in the middle of all these people... There ought to be a
>> law... OUCH!
>
> Wow, that went sailing right over your head, didn't it?

lol. You're very bad at this.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.sony-playstation2,alt.games.video.xbox (More info?)

"steven" <noone@email.com> wrote in message
news:429cdf80$0$575$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader03.plus.net...
>i for one will be getting one as soon as its available, forget the PS3 i
>think the Xbox 360 looks more powerfull by far
>
>

And by "looks", you mean that you have seen or played either? Didn't think
so. You get a troll no score. You don't have $300 for a 360 anyway. We
will tell you how it plays.
> "Fred Liken" <fredliken@toocool4school.com> wrote in message
> news:429cdbac$0$90627$bb4e3ad8@newscene.com...
>> "Buckaroo Banzai" <blackhole34@yahoo.com> wrote
>>
>>>> Imagine for a moment that you're an Xbox executive (insert joke here
>>>> about poor fashion sense).
>>>>
>>>> Your last console took a serious bite out of Sony's dominant
>>>> marketshare and surpassed Nintendo - but you are still a distant
>>>> second.
>>>
>>> I'm not a fanboy or anything, but I thought that the PS2 sold more units
>>> than the original PS... I could be wrong about that, but if it's true,
>>> then how can it be said that Microsoft affected Sony's market share at
>>> all?
>>
>> Market share isn't about past performances, but rather how many of the
>> systems sold are yours. Having XBox not only extended the market some,
>> but also diluted PS2's market share, you see?
>>
>>> Either way, I hope that all three consoles succeed... for our sake.
>>
>> I hope that they succeed, but that their new business models fail.
>>
>
>