f1nal_0men
Distinguished
- Feb 26, 2006
- 367
- 0
- 18,780
- Jul 24, 2006
- 23,077
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What are each of the variables in that formula (what do they stand for), otherwise it means nothing to me 🙁
turpit
Splendid
- Feb 12, 2006
- 6,373
- 0
- 25,780
Think of the Lagrangian function F(P, λ) = f(P) - λ g(P); I would like to minimize something given certain constraints.
If it will help, I was already looking at systems coming in at about $2500 without a monitor through Dell.
Now was that so hard?
I understand what your saying, but details like with/without a monitor are huge.
It would be nothing for some people to price out a $5-$10K system for you. When limits start occuring, things change and questions ensue. Is oblivion FPS the only performance parameter you care about?
If so, then for $2500, the level of CPU will start falling off to increase the level of GPU. Dual 1900s for example or 7950s.
A pair of Nvidia 7950s will cost you $1200. At $2500, this eliminates the possibilty of a EE6800 CPU. Not a big deal, unless you want to do video processing or 3D rendering in addition to Oblivion.
- Jul 24, 2006
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13thmonkey
Titan
- Jan 10, 2006
- 24,790
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I was playing with a 6600GT on an XP3200+, and outside I don't what FPS I got (everything on medium) but it was playable, and isn't that the point, for it to be playable.
Funnily enough a faster card will get me more smoothness outside, and it might look a tiny bit better (its already very nice eye candy) but thats about it.
Do you read any posts / articles here? They all and I mean ALL say that oblivion is fine at 25+ FPS as its not a twitch game, and that very little-to-nothing will run it everything-high without silly oney being spent.
apache_lives
Splendid
- Dec 10, 2002
- 6,873
- 1
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P4 2600c, 1gb ram, 6600GT - it runs oblivion on high ok i suppose, nothin flash and id prefer better frames, so any core 2 duo, 1+gb of ram and a 7900GT or better will do you fine! remember the more you spend the better it gets spend more on your video card, then cpu, ram, then storage and never skimp on the motherboard.
spend more on your video card, then cpu, ram, then storage and never skimp on the motherboard.Hey there everyone,
I'm looking to build a system piecemeal, for the first time ever. What I mean by Oblivion-proof is that it will not fall below 60FPS outdoors with max settings @ 1280x1024. I am trying to be as cost-efficient at the same time, of course 😉
Here are the odds and ends:
- I heard that for a 19" screen, the ideal resolution is 1280x1024. Is there any truth to this, or should I shoot for a different resolution (and thus need better/crappier equipment)?
- I also heard that 2ms response time is a MUST for screens to erase any shadowing. 2ms response screens are much more respective than 8ms ones... which should I go for?
- I would like an upgradable system.
- I am not looking for anything too fancy in terms of setup - dual cards, raid drives, etc. - single drive, single card please.
- 10,000 RPM drive - worth it for this kind of system (100% gaming)? I hardly use any space on my HD... if I'm not using it, it gets deleted. I don't think I've ever eclipsed 90 gigs.
- ram speed (in mhz)... 533, 667, 800, 1000? Which to get and why? I know I will need 2 gigs.
- SB X-fi or whatever it is called... again I hear that all new games will need this to have the best sound quality. Any thoughts?
Thanks everyone
Ok, here's what i've got and how well it performs:
Pentium D 805 (no slagging, i'm happy tinkering with it)
ASUS P5WD2-E Premium
1GB of OCZ S.O.E PC2-6400 (4-4-4)
Powercolor Radeon X1800XT 256MB
Sound Blaster X-Fi Xtreme Music (really, not required)
160GB SATA II HDD 7500RPM
I can run Oblivion at 1280x1024 with everything set to High/Max EXCEPT for AA of course😛 and the Interior/Exterior shading sliders are at around 30% exterior 40% interior.
On the FPS side, i get about 30FPS walking through the Great Forest (which looks beautiful with 100% grass distance, 100% view distance and distant lands) and about 65FPS in dungeons and places.
It's worth noting that it seems to be a CPU limited game, the faster your processor is the more frames you get. I'm horrified that i'm saying this, but my D805 is slowing me down 😛
Pentium D 805 (no slagging, i'm happy tinkering with it)
ASUS P5WD2-E Premium
1GB of OCZ S.O.E PC2-6400 (4-4-4)
Powercolor Radeon X1800XT 256MB
Sound Blaster X-Fi Xtreme Music (really, not required)
160GB SATA II HDD 7500RPM
I can run Oblivion at 1280x1024 with everything set to High/Max EXCEPT for AA of course😛 and the Interior/Exterior shading sliders are at around 30% exterior 40% interior.
On the FPS side, i get about 30FPS walking through the Great Forest (which looks beautiful with 100% grass distance, 100% view distance and distant lands) and about 65FPS in dungeons and places.
It's worth noting that it seems to be a CPU limited game, the faster your processor is the more frames you get. I'm horrified that i'm saying this, but my D805 is slowing me down 😛
jaguarskx
Titan
- Apr 19, 2006
- 27,976
- 4
- 84,965
Sorry, but that is not doable either.
Anandtech did a review of GPU performance in Oblivion. It is a game that can even bring a $5000 system to it's knees. Click here for the game settings used in the test. As you can see from this April 2006 review, everything is not maxed out. With good reason too....
The review tests the GPUs in three environments:
1. Oblivion Gates (outdoors)
2. Towns
3. Dungeons
Oblivion Gates is the most stressful test because it is outdoors. Click here for the GPU performance chart from the review.
Even for an average of 34.4 FPS, you will need two GeForce 7800GTX in SLI mode. That falls between the performance of dual 7900GTs and dual 7900 GTX setups.
For a single card solution you will need to lower your expectations to an average of 30 FPS. Not minimum, average. The best card to get is the X1900XT. The X1900XTX does marginally better, but it costs a lot more.
One other thing. To achieve achieve those "high FPS" you'll also need a powerful CPU as well. The following April 2006 Anantech review shows the effect of the CPU in a X1900XT Crossfire system setup.
Elder Scrolls - GPU Performance
My two 2 cents on this subject.
As was said to achieve the FPS goal you are going to need a pretty highend system.
My recommendation would be a Core 2 Duo with X1900 (X1950) single (35FPS average) or dual (50+ FPS average). For CF look at the E6600 or above to maximize the advantage of the 2nd GPU. Also 2GB of RAM is a must. The final thing is get a good PSU to drive all this stuff. If you go cheap on the PSU stablity will suffer.
Places to save money. Optical drives, HD size, sound card (don't buy one), Chassis (get one that is solid with good airflow but not expensive)
My guess is that a quality CF system to meet your specs will cost you around 3,000 from a good system builder. A single card setup being cheaper.
As was said to achieve the FPS goal you are going to need a pretty highend system.
My recommendation would be a Core 2 Duo with X1900 (X1950) single (35FPS average) or dual (50+ FPS average). For CF look at the E6600 or above to maximize the advantage of the 2nd GPU. Also 2GB of RAM is a must. The final thing is get a good PSU to drive all this stuff. If you go cheap on the PSU stablity will suffer.
Places to save money. Optical drives, HD size, sound card (don't buy one), Chassis (get one that is solid with good airflow but not expensive)
My guess is that a quality CF system to meet your specs will cost you around 3,000 from a good system builder. A single card setup being cheaper.
Hey there everyone,
I'm looking to build a system piecemeal, for the first time ever. What I mean by Oblivion-proof is that it will not fall below 60FPS outdoors with max settings @ 1280x1024. I am trying to be as cost-efficient at the same time, of course 😉
Here are the odds and ends:
- I heard that for a 19" screen, the ideal resolution is 1280x1024. Is there any truth to this, or should I shoot for a different resolution (and thus need better/crappier equipment)?
- I also heard that 2ms response time is a MUST for screens to erase any shadowing. 2ms response screens are much more respective than 8ms ones... which should I go for?
- I would like an upgradable system.
- I am not looking for anything too fancy in terms of setup - dual cards, raid drives, etc. - single drive, single card please.
- 10,000 RPM drive - worth it for this kind of system (100% gaming)? I hardly use any space on my HD... if I'm not using it, it gets deleted. I don't think I've ever eclipsed 90 gigs.
- ram speed (in mhz)... 533, 667, 800, 1000? Which to get and why? I know I will need 2 gigs.
- SB X-fi or whatever it is called... again I hear that all new games will need this to have the best sound quality. Any thoughts?
Thanks everyone
hahahah....you`re funny my friend ..min 60 frames with max details in that game.....that system hasn`t been build yet..........
with top of the line gpus and cpus today ...you may get arround that half ..lets say 30 min...
obly likes ati ...so naturally x1900 or x1950 has a clear advantage over 7900..not to mention the other problems (no AA + HDR for nvidia cards ..etc..etc)...
if one of your friends is telling you that he can achieve 60 min (i repeat min) fps in that game with a normal or even high end sistem (conroe cpu is much much better than any amd cpu)......he is either kidding or ....either not on max settings....or whatever (settings modiffied to low in drivers ...etc....etc)....so don`t believe anything you hear ...
good luck
illuminatirex
Distinguished
- Jan 23, 2006
- 1,149
- 0
- 19,290
Hi, its all done in dx9, and it looks amazing doesnt it 😀 , if you would go to the forums on the oficial site www.projectoffset.com look for my posts there(i have the same nick there) look for something of mine like "new(er) po info" ull find a lot more info in my post there than is given on the offical info page, regarding multiplayer game, mounted units(like trols, dragons, also catapults, and such) also regarding the ingame clases (dwarved, dark elves, men, magic units, and such), lol im postponing my buy of a gpu for that game, it truly looks amazing, and i think its worth waiting for then new dx10 cards, althou im shoor a 1900xt would handle it, beter than it would handle oblivion(which i think was just slopily made, as a resource hogg), for more videos check out www.gametrailers.com, also check out there a game titled "Haze" it has beter than Crysis graphics , 3rd person game, check it out on high def video it looks awsome , but i gues these are not ingame videos like the project offset all were
I will guarantee no ones system is that fast. Oblivion programmers did a really shotty job on the code, its graphical requirements arent its visuals its their terrible code. My system lags down with everything to its fullest, running @ 1280x1024 w/ 4x AA and 8xHQAF. Im still not happy with the performance, sometimes it lags below 20 fps. Toms hardware benchmarks go in parallel with my findings also.
angry_ducky
Distinguished
- Mar 3, 2006
- 3,030
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- 20,790
darkstar782
Distinguished
- Dec 24, 2005
- 1,375
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I'd disagree, C2D at stock is well matched by DDR2 533, but its not uncommon for them to overclock to a 1600MHz FSB, at which point DDR2 800 is very very usefull. If you are going for a decent water loop then you would not go far wrong with DDR2-1066.
More than 2 gig, not much difference. I can *maybe* see a use for 3 gig, but Windows (wether Vista or XP) cannot allocate more than 2gb to any one process. Even on XP x64 and Vista 64 bit edition, Only 64 bit apps can use more than 2gb of RAM.. 3gb is kinda usefull for your IM clients etc in the background I suppose.
XP x64 can access more than 4gb, I think its 2 terabytes? The limit in XP 32bit is 4gb, but that means it has 4gb of address space, and certain addresses will be used up already by AGP Arpetures and the like, the amount you actually see with 4gb installed varies from system to system, but its normally in the region of 3.25-3.6gb
However, 2GB is a VAST improvement on 1GB. Maybe not so much in terms of FPS while ingame, but in general Windows performance and game loading times, the Swap File usage is drastically reduced and the overall feel of the PC is much nicer. I speak from personal experience here, when I first built my new Rig I went from 2gb of DDR1-400 CL3 in single channel mode (KT600 chipset) to 1gb of DDR2-667 CL3 in single channel, and it was really painfull. I have now gone back to 2gb
I agree with the first part of the statement, but DDR2-1000+ is definately NOT 'useless'. It is expensive, but for high end C2D overclocking its worth it imho. All the tests you see showing anything over DDR2-533 offering limited benefit with C2D are done with the FSB at stock, where the 1066MHz FSB is the bottleneck with DDR2-667 and higher in a Dual Channel setup.
My personal recommendation would be:
e6600 - Decent CPU, the first of the 4mb cache C2Ds, much better price/performance than the e6700 and e6800, excellent overclocker.
Asus P5W DH Deluxe - Great conroe overclocker, I've seen these things benched with a 2000MHz fsb! Its also a fully featured board, it has EVERYTHING you could ever wish for, and more.
2gb (2*1GB) Corsair or Crucial DDR2-667 CL3 or DDR2-800 CL4 - Corsair are great, Crucial are part of Micron, DDR2-667 CL3 is slightly shorter latencies in terms of nanoseconds than DDR2-800 CL4, meaning every DDR2-667 CL3 module should be ok at DDR2-800 CL4 timings. This gives you enough o/c headroom if you decide you need it.
x1900XTX 512mb - Great gfx card, the ATis perform much better in Oblivion than the nVidias, and I say that as a historic nVidia fan, and as someone that currently owns a 7900GT. The Asus P5W DH also supports Crossfire if you later decide to add a master card.
Scythe Ninja Plus or Scythe Mine cooler - Both great coolers, better than the Zalman 9500 I was using before my current water rig
Viewsonic 19" VP930 - Only 1280x1024 like most TFTs, and as a CRT fan I do like 1600x1200 at 19", but even I accept that TFTs are taking over now. Better monitor than most of the 2ms ones imho because of the lack of overshoot on the overdrive, less sparkling. Has excellent reviews
You say you dont use much HDD space, so a 150GB Raptor would be nice, and my other sugestion of two 7200.10 250GB SATA drives on a RAID 0 array would be kinda wasted as you'd never use the space. You could save money here if you liked, the Raptor is expensive for the size, and the only *real* advantage is in loading times and windows startup times, when you have 2gb+ RAM. With less RAM, the 10k drive means your page file is quicker, but who uses 1gb with a Raptor?
I wouldnt really bother with an X-Fi unless you want to do things other than games, (are you a musician?) the framerate improvement is small, especially on games that are GPU rather than CPU intensive such as Oblivion, and the SnR is pointlessly high unless you are spending a fortune on speakers. The Realtek HD audio on the P5W DH is plenty good enough for me, and I have an Audigy 2 Platinum sat in the cupboard
Thats my thoughts... Feel free to ignore me
angry_ducky
Distinguished
- Mar 3, 2006
- 3,030
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Minimize cost subject to the given performance parameters.
Falcon Northwest Mach V: $5858, and that's without a monitor.
illuminatirex
Distinguished
- Jan 23, 2006
- 1,149
- 0
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lol so basicaly I almost got the "good stuff" with the exception og the graphisc card lol, butill get a dx10 one during the summer, or winter time, when the prices will go down a bit. but hopefully the radeon x850xt will be ok for a while considering i have the core 2 duo E6600.
JQB45
Splendid
- Jun 23, 2006
- 3,599
- 51
- 24,040
I can't get you 60fps with Oblivion. But If you want cheap, playable oblivion performance. Then this might work for you and would be upgradeable so long as AMD doesn't burn us again like I got burned on the 754 Socket...
Please don't flame me to hard, the guy I work with thought upgrading his ATI 9250 to an nvidia fx 5200 128bit/256MB mem would allow him to play oblivion... slide show only if that I am guessing.
He asked me what he would need, I did some research and this is what I came up with, minimum to have a decent chance of playability w/ oblivion.
This modest design was to rich for him... The prices are good as of 8/31 and are from newegg...
RAIDMAX xB ATX-528B Black SECC Steel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case - Retail
(Get any case you want, this is cheap)
19.99
10.89
KINGWIN ABT-600CW ATX 12V 2.0V Modular 600W Power Supply 115~120 Vac/200~240 Vac - Retail
(Good power supply is crucial!)
109.99
0.00
ECS KA3 MVP (V1.0A) Socket AM2 ATI CrossFire Radeon XPRESS 3200 ATX AMD Motherboard - Retail
(not many Crossfire boards to choose from)
129.99
6.94
AMD Athlon 64 X2 3800+ Windsor 2.0GHz Socket AM2 Dual Core Processor Model ADA3800IAA5CU - Retail
(CPU isn't the biggest concern anymore, upgrade if you have the $$$)
152.00
0.00
CORSAIR VALUE SELECT 1GB (2 x 512MB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 System Memory - Retail
(might consider 2 x 1024MB)
95.99
4.99
SAMSUNG SpinPoint P Series HD160JJ 160GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive - OEM
(2 in RAID 0 for best performance, 10k drives would be nice)
53.99
5.64
SAPPHIRE 100150L Radeon X1900XTX 512MB GDDR3 PCI Express x16 Video Card - Retail
(2 in Crossfire more for best performance)
354.99
6.41
LG 16X DVD±R Super-Multi DVD Burner With 12X DVD-RAM Write Black E-IDE/ATAPI Model GSA-H10N - OEM
(not 100% neccessary, but nice to have)
28.99
5.64
Total
986.44
Other things to consider
Monitor, Keyboard, Mouse, Floppy Drive, Windows XP
Please don't flame me to hard, the guy I work with thought upgrading his ATI 9250 to an nvidia fx 5200 128bit/256MB mem would allow him to play oblivion... slide show only if that I am guessing.
He asked me what he would need, I did some research and this is what I came up with, minimum to have a decent chance of playability w/ oblivion.
This modest design was to rich for him... The prices are good as of 8/31 and are from newegg...
RAIDMAX xB ATX-528B Black SECC Steel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case - Retail
(Get any case you want, this is cheap)
19.99
10.89
KINGWIN ABT-600CW ATX 12V 2.0V Modular 600W Power Supply 115~120 Vac/200~240 Vac - Retail
(Good power supply is crucial!)
109.99
0.00
ECS KA3 MVP (V1.0A) Socket AM2 ATI CrossFire Radeon XPRESS 3200 ATX AMD Motherboard - Retail
(not many Crossfire boards to choose from)
129.99
6.94
AMD Athlon 64 X2 3800+ Windsor 2.0GHz Socket AM2 Dual Core Processor Model ADA3800IAA5CU - Retail
(CPU isn't the biggest concern anymore, upgrade if you have the $$$)
152.00
0.00
CORSAIR VALUE SELECT 1GB (2 x 512MB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 System Memory - Retail
(might consider 2 x 1024MB)
95.99
4.99
SAMSUNG SpinPoint P Series HD160JJ 160GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive - OEM
(2 in RAID 0 for best performance, 10k drives would be nice)
53.99
5.64
SAPPHIRE 100150L Radeon X1900XTX 512MB GDDR3 PCI Express x16 Video Card - Retail
(2 in Crossfire more for best performance)
354.99
6.41
LG 16X DVD±R Super-Multi DVD Burner With 12X DVD-RAM Write Black E-IDE/ATAPI Model GSA-H10N - OEM
(not 100% neccessary, but nice to have)
28.99
5.64
Total
986.44
Other things to consider
Monitor, Keyboard, Mouse, Floppy Drive, Windows XP
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