Discussion Here's what a real scummy charlatan on YouTube looks like!

[Avro Arrow]

I was looking at some CPU cooling reviews, wondering if any aftermarket coolers were worth it compared to my Wraith Prism that cost me nothing. I came across a channel called "PC Tech Hustle" and boy, is that ever an apt name for this channel because this guy is a real snake with how he presents his findings:

I left him a really scathing comment because that's what he deserves and I demonstrated how dishonest he was being. His video was sponsored by Vetroo and PC Cooler so of course he was extra kind to those coolers. He also had affiliate links for the other 3rd Party coolers so he really made sure that it sounded like the AMD Wraith Prism was outclassed by the others since he couldn't sell a Wraith Prism. Since when is a 1.0% difference between two products considered to be anything more than margin of error? Well, for this creep, it means that "The CoolerMaster Hyper 212 unlocked a whole new tier of performance for the 5950X" (compared to the Wraith Prism). I swear that I can't make this stuff up. Here are the numbers for all of the coolers except for the Wraith Stealth because while it did actually work, it was outclassed by the rest. I listed them by their numbers going lowest to highest (not necessarily worst to best) in each category to make the differences easier to see:

Price (I assume in USD):
AMD Wraith Prism = $0
CoolerMaster Hyper 212 = $30
Vetroo V5 = $35
PC Cooler GameIce GI-D66A = $56
DeepCool Neptwin = $62
CoolerMaster ML-240L [240mm AIO] = $85

CineBench Score:
Vetroo V5 = 25,838
AMD Wraith Prism = 25,884 (+1.002%)
PC Cooler GI-D66A = 25,970 (+1.005%)
CoolerMaster Hyper 212 = 26,089 (+1.009%)
DeepCool Neptwin = 26,236 (+1.015%)
CoolerMaster ML-240L [240mm AIO] = 26,323 (+1.018%)

Average Load Temperature:
CoolerMaster ML-240L [240mm AIO] = 71.2°C
DeepCool Neptwin = 74.3°C (+1.009%)
CoolerMaster Hyper 212 = 76.2°C (+1.014%)
PC Cooler GI-D66A = 76.7°C (+1.016%)
Vetroo V5 = 78.3°C (+1.020%)
AMD Wraith Prism = 79.8°C (+1.025%)

Average Clock Speed:
AMD Wraith Prism = 4.229GHz
PC Cooler GI-D66A = 4.266GHz (+1.009%)
Vetroo V5 = 4.269GHz (+1.009%)
CoolerMaster Hyper 212 = 4.301GHz (+1.017%)
CoolerMaster ML-240L [240mm AIO] = 4.335GHz (+1.025%)
DeepCool Neptwin = 4.339GHz (+1.026%)

Boost Clock Speed:
AMD Wraith Prism = 4.575GHz
Vetroo V5 = 4.600GHz (+1.005%)
PC Cooler GI-D66A = 4.601GHz (+1.006%)
CoolerMaster Hyper 212 = 4.625GHz (+1.011%)
DeepCool Neptwin = 4.626GHz (+1.01%)
CoolerMaster ML-240L [240mm AIO] = 4.626GHz (+1.01%)

Average CPU Voltage:
AMD Wraith Prism = 1.192V
PC Cooler GI-D66A = 1.192V
Vetroo V5 = 1.202V (+1.008%)
CoolerMaster Hyper 212 = 1.212V (+1.017%)
CoolerMaster ML-240L [240mm AIO] = 1.216V (+1.020%)
DeepCool Neptwin = 1.221V (+1.024%)

The biggest difference which could be called the best and what could be called the worst across the entire board is a WHOPPING 1.025%. You know that the differences are a joke when I have to use thousandths of a percent to show them. With the exception of temperature (because temperature percentages work differently than the others), nothing was even close to being out of the margin of error. While temperature was outside of the margin of error, all temperatures were well within spec and the lowest temperatures didn't always yield the highest scores and that's because the scores were all within margin of error.

Rememer that this is a worst-case scenario using a 16-core Ryzen 9 5950X running AIDA64 for 20 minutes to exaggerate the results which means that, the AMD Wraith Prism (and Wraith Spire for that matter) would be just fine for every gamer out there. Hell, even the Wraith Stealth would be fine for a lot of gamers because it still managed to complete the test, albeit at 3.769GHz but again, this is a 16-core Ryzen 9 running AIDA64's stress test for twenty minutes. I'm willing to bet that the Wraith Stealth would be just fine for even a Ryzen 7 7700X in gaming and multimedia tasks.

CPU cooling is such a scam and a racket (it always has been) and it's the reason that I always recommend for newcomers to the hobby to buy an AM5 CPU that doesn't have a suffix (R5-7600, R7-7700, R9-7900) because the Ryzen 5 comes with a perfectly usable Wraith Stealth and the others come with a Wraith Prism. I advise them to try the stock cooler before throwing money at something else. I don't tell them not to get something else, I just tell them to wait and see if the stock cooler is good enough. If it's not, then I recommend that they get something else (but it always is good enough for gaming). As you can see here, there's really no point because it won't make a discernible difference for most people (specifically gamers).

The majority of them thank me for saving them a good chunk of change on their R5-7600 builds because at that level, $30-$85 is the difference between an RX 7700 XT and an RX 7800 XT (or 7800 XT to 7900 GRE). I've used AMD box coolers since my Phenom II X4 940 back in 2008 and I've never needed to use anything else. It sure is nice to not have to pay for something for once.

 

[CountMike]

I was looking at some CPU cooling reviews, wondering if any aftermarket coolers were worth it compared to my Wraith Prism that cost me nothing. I came across a channel called "PC Tech Hustle" and boy, is that ever an apt name for this channel because this guy is a real snake with how he presents his findings:

I left him a really scathing comment because that's what he deserves and I demonstrated how dishonest he was being. His video was sponsored by Vetroo and PC Cooler so of course he was extra kind to those coolers. He also had affiliate links for the other 3rd Party coolers so he really made sure that it sounded like the AMD Wraith Prism was outclassed by the others since he couldn't sell a Wraith Prism. Since when is a 1.0% difference between two products considered to be anything more than margin of error? Well, for this creep, it means that "The CoolerMaster Hyper 212 unlocked a whole new tier of performance for the 5950X" (compared to the Wraith Prism). I swear that I can't make this stuff up. Here are the numbers for all of the coolers except for the Wraith Stealth because while it did actually work, it was outclassed by the rest. I listed them by their numbers going lowest to highest (not necessarily worst to best) in each category to make the differences easier to see:

Price (I assume in USD):
AMD Wraith Prism = $0
CoolerMaster Hyper 212 = $30
Vetroo V5 = $35
PC Cooler GameIce GI-D66A = $56
DeepCool Neptwin = $62
CoolerMaster ML-240L [240mm AIO] = $85

CineBench Score:
Vetroo V5 = 25,838
AMD Wraith Prism = 25,884 (+1.002%)
PC Cooler GI-D66A = 25,970 (+1.005%)
CoolerMaster Hyper 212 = 26,089 (+1.009%)
DeepCool Neptwin = 26,236 (+1.015%)
CoolerMaster ML-240L [240mm AIO] = 26,323 (+1.018%)

Average Load Temperature:
CoolerMaster ML-240L [240mm AIO] = 71.2°C
DeepCool Neptwin = 74.3°C (+1.009%)
CoolerMaster Hyper 212 = 76.2°C (+1.014%)
PC Cooler GI-D66A = 76.7°C (+1.016%)
Vetroo V5 = 78.3°C (+1.020%)
AMD Wraith Prism = 79.8°C (+1.025%)

Average Clock Speed:
AMD Wraith Prism = 4.229GHz
PC Cooler GI-D66A = 4.266GHz (+1.009%)
Vetroo V5 = 4.269GHz (+1.009%)
CoolerMaster Hyper 212 = 4.301GHz (+1.017%)
CoolerMaster ML-240L [240mm AIO] = 4.335GHz (+1.025%)
DeepCool Neptwin = 4.339GHz (+1.026%)

Boost Clock Speed:
AMD Wraith Prism = 4.575GHz
Vetroo V5 = 4.600GHz (+1.005%)
PC Cooler GI-D66A = 4.601GHz (+1.006%)
CoolerMaster Hyper 212 = 4.625GHz (+1.011%)
DeepCool Neptwin = 4.626GHz (+1.01%)
CoolerMaster ML-240L [240mm AIO] = 4.626GHz (+1.01%)

Average CPU Voltage:
AMD Wraith Prism = 1.192V
PC Cooler GI-D66A = 1.192V
Vetroo V5 = 1.202V (+1.008%)
CoolerMaster Hyper 212 = 1.212V (+1.017%)
CoolerMaster ML-240L [240mm AIO] = 1.216V (+1.020%)
DeepCool Neptwin = 1.221V (+1.024%)

The biggest difference which could be called the best and what could be called the worst across the entire board is a WHOPPING 1.025%. You know that the differences are a joke when I have to use thousandths of a percent to show them. With the exception of temperature (because temperature percentages work differently than the others), nothing was even close to being out of the margin of error. While temperature was outside of the margin of error, all temperatures were well within spec and the lowest temperatures didn't always yield the highest scores and that's because the scores were all within margin of error.

Rememer that this is a worst-case scenario using a 16-core Ryzen 9 5950X running AIDA64 for 20 minutes to exaggerate the results which means that, the AMD Wraith Prism (and Wraith Spire for that matter) would be just fine for every gamer out there. Hell, even the Wraith Stealth would be fine for a lot of gamers because it still managed to complete the test, albeit at 3.769GHz but again, this is a 16-core Ryzen 9 running AIDA64's stress test for twenty minutes. I'm willing to bet that the Wraith Stealth would be just fine for even a Ryzen 7 7700X in gaming and multimedia tasks.

CPU cooling is such a scam and a racket (it always has been) and it's the reason that I always recommend for newcomers to the hobby to buy an AM5 CPU that doesn't have a suffix (R5-7600, R7-7700, R9-7900) because they come with a perfectly usable Wraith Stealth, Wraith Spire and Wraith Prism, respectively. I advise them to try the stock cooler before throwing money at something else. I don't tell them not to get something else, I tell them to see if the stock cooler isn't good enough and if it's not, then get something else. As you can see here, there's really no point because it won't make a discernible difference for most people (specifically gamers).

The majority of them thank me for saving them a good chunk of change on their R5-7600 builds because at that level, $30-$85 is the difference between an RX 7700 XT and an RX 7800 XT (or 7800 XT to 7900 GRE). I've used AMD box coolers since my Phenom II X4 940 back in 2008 and I've never needed to use anything else. It sure is nice to not have to pay for something for once.

First red flag: "Sponsored by" and then talk about other similar products.
AMD supplies their coolers only for low end, non-x CPUs at or bellow 65W TDP for a reason and that's they don't make or sell any larger.As far as I know AMD still has them made by Cooler Master, First Wraith were supplied for FX 83xxx processors at almost end of production. I got one with FX8350 but replaced it with 120mm Mugen3 because I wanted to OC it. and I did to 5GHz. although it was tight because of it's tjmax 60c cores and 90c socket. No OEM or anything less than dual tower, dual fan, 6 pipes. could.
My first Ryzen was 1600x which didn't come with any cooler, used one from FX and kept it until 2700x and switched to CM Nepton 140xl. AiO.for R7 3700x.
I don't believe his temperatures or he detuned that R9 5950x and CB scores show it. There's no way it could run at 71c even with 240 AiO.
I believe CPU was detuned, not even at stock or set to 65W TDP with good dose of undervolt. At those powers it's quite understandable. that practically any cooler. of any type and size would show quite similar temps.
To keep my 5800x at peak performance it took Arctic Liquid Freezer II 360 to cool up to 80-82c. and now R9 7900x under Arctic Liquid Freezer III 360 for same temps but they were/are all tuned for best performance.

 

[Ralston18]

Moving thread from Cooling to Opinions and Experiences.

Discussion material - not a cooling problem per se.

 

[punkncat]

It is a common word of caution around the forums to watch out for advice from influencers. Even my most favored subscriptions have been involved in some hyping up of product or products that they are tied to in one fashion or another. It is quite rare that one of these 'channels' will tell the whole story about what they are doing to reflect a good light on the product they may or may not have been given and or outright paid to "review".

IMO the one and only single individual that I have yet to catch in an outright lie or misrepresentation of a product is Steve over at GN. He seems to me to be the only 'honest' guy in the business. There are others that I have a level of respect for since they have come out to say that they do scaling, or settings tweaks and so on to boost performance on products.

 

[CountMike]

JayzTwoCents is also pretty good. thorough and informed. Der8auer is not bad but caught him with some inaccurate assessments and trying to be interesting with "humor" and with obvious bias toward or against some manufactures, makes and models.

 

[punkncat]

^ I have to be honest in saying that I quit watching Jayz. He and a large group of content creators (as he likes to call himself) have the nasty habit of taking any little tidbit of a nothing story, add a bunch of hyperbole, and only when they get called out for releasing trash then he pulls his "shame on me" video, long in line of being too lazy to do some homework before rushing to be the one who breaks the story. Him and at least two others I watch that used to work together a lot are the worst for this and in honestly if you watch one of those three channels all you are getting is a very very small difference in view, not story.

Derbauer is a bit of a different story, but he has changed where his branding is supposed to make the product so much better for having a badge on it. Feel free to pay more like a designer set of jeans. And full disclosure here, I have a DB badged Lian Li case in the O11 line. In my defense I was not aware as it wasn't advertised that way.

 

[COLGeek]

All of these guys cater to whatever audience will generate clicks. Honestly, no different than the teenie-boppers selling make-up, clothes, or whatever other lifestyle hooey they are slinging.

Many have lost the ability to independently research anything. They just need an influencer to tell them the answer (to what is often the wrong question to start with).

None of these guys should be taken at face value based on their info...at all. But, should be used tas part of a more thorough assessment of whatever the question of the day is by using additional supporting sources to confirm/deny the path forward.

 

[punkncat]

Many have lost the ability to independently research anything.

I agree with your statement at face value, but will say this. Many products on the market don't have anything TO research aside from whatever the manufacturer states in its brochure. Otherwise you have to count on the product being popular enough that some website/magazine (as it were) puts out a good and centered review, that enough purchasers review* or that there is something on YT.

*The catch about purchasers is that you typically get the 5 or 1 (star) review. Either it is the best thing since sliced bread, or the company are a bunch of crooks and the product is terrible blah...and honestly most of that is based in either erroneous part selection or buyers remorse.

 

[COLGeek]

I agree with your statement at face value, but will say this. Many products on the market don't have anything TO research aside from whatever the manufacturer states in its brochure. Otherwise you have to count on the product being popular enough that some website/magazine (as it were) puts out a good and centered review, that enough purchasers review* or that there is something on YT.

*The catch about purchasers is that you typically get the 5 or 1 (star) review. Either it is the best thing since sliced bread, or the company are a bunch of crooks and the product is terrible blah...and honestly most of that is based in either erroneous part selection or buyers remorse.

Good points. But the consumer must also apply some common sense to their analysis (and personal responsibility) as well. You don't get the same level of "awesome" from a $25 headset compared to a $250 headset, for example.

Excellent observation regarding personal reviews. However, a bunch of 1 stars should be a clue. Same with 5 stars that say nothing.

YT has become as bad as other social media sources. It will keep feeding you crap based on your history. People tend to get lost in that crap and we know how that plays out.

 

[Math Geek]

i would much rather READ a review. give me the details, a couple well made charts and then a simple honest conclusion based on the testing.

i don't need loud, flashy 20 minute videos that tell me nothing for 19 minutes of it. then flash a quick chart for a second while telling me HOW FREAKING AWESOME THIS IS!!!!!!!

there is no one on youtube worth my time from what i have seen. some here like that gamers nexus guy and i have not seen anything so far from him to complain about so i guess he alright. but i'd still rather read it than watch a video. not the same experience for this old guy

NOW GET OFF MY LAWN *shakes his fist at the clouds*

 

[Avro Arrow]

First red flag: "Sponsored by" and then talk about other similar products.

Agreed. The thing is that he didn't start the video by saying that so I was actually expecting to be able to take his findings at face value. At first, I thought he was just an idiot but then I realised that he was just basically making an advertisement under the guise of an objective review.

AMD supplies their coolers only for low end, non-x CPUs at or bellow 65W TDP for a reason and that's they don't make or sell any larger.As far as I know AMD still has them made by Cooler Master, First Wraith were supplied for FX 83xxx processors at almost end of production.

Yeah, I call the AM2+ cooler the "Baby Wraith" because the Wraith just looks like an oversized version of the AM2+ cooler that came with my Phenom II X4 940. You can see them side by side here in a picture from AnandTech:

The similarities are pretty obvious, eh? Even the heatpipes have the same configuration. Here are some other angles of the Baby Wraith from Silent PC Review:

Side Fin View:

The four copper heat pipes are literally identical to those of the Wraith:

I got one with FX8350 but replaced it with 120mm Mugen3 because I wanted to OC it. and I did to 5GHz. although it was tight because of it's tjmax 60c cores and 90c socket. No OEM or anything less than dual tower, dual fan, 6 pipes. could.

I don't blame you because the AM3/AM3+ coolers that came with my Phenom II X4 965 and FX-8350 were absolute garbage compared to the Baby Wraith that they replaced. They were smaller, lighter and had fewer fins. They also had a smaller fan and that fan didn't have the curved blades of the Baby Wraith, it just had short, fat and straight blades that sounded like a jet engine when the fan ramped up. Since the cooling block was already inferior to the Baby Wraith, they sounded like a jet engine / blower-style GPU cooler. This was clearly when AMD was so desperate for money that they were cutting costs everywhere that they could. I really don't think that this was the best way to do it, but, it's what they did. I discovered this with my Phenom II X4 965 and very quickly replaced it with the Baby Wraith. The difference in noise was not only palpable, but significant. This is the AM3 cooler here shown next to the Baby Wraith:

My first Ryzen was 1600x which didn't come with any cooler, used one from FX and kept it until 2700x and switched to CM Nepton 140xl. AiO.for R7 3700x.

I'm rather shocked because until now, I thought that all first-gen Ryzens came with coolers. The coolers back then both got discontinued and replaced. The Wraith MAX (which was kind of like an intermediate step between the original Wraith and the current Wraith Prism) and the Wraith Spire RGB, a cooler that was just plain discontinued. The R7-1700 came with the Spire RGB. I think it kinda sucks that AMD discontinued the Spire RGB because it looks a lot nicer than the plain non-RGB Spire. Here's the Wraith MAX and Wraith Spire RGB together:

Take away the RGB ring and you have a standard Wraith Spire. It looks pretty bland and I was thrilled to be able to trade mine (which I never used) to my stepfather for his Wraith Prism. It was actually his idea because he said he wanted rid of it because he hates RGB. I happened to be doing a motherboard swap for him at the time and I had my R5-3600X's Wraith Spire on me. I offered to trade it to him for the Prism. He took one look at it and eagerly agreed. I told him that first we'd have to make sure that the Spire could cool his R9-3900X. So, I installed it, ran some Prime95 and PassMark Burn-in. It got pretty toasty but never went out of spec and he was quite satisfied with the speeds he was getting (I can't remember what the clocks were, but they weren't noticeably low). So, I ended up with this stunner of a CPU cooler in exchange for one that I really wasn't interested in using.

I don't believe his temperatures or he detuned that R9 5950x and CB scores show it. There's no way it could run at 71c even with 240 AiO.
I believe CPU was detuned, not even at stock or set to 65W TDP with good dose of undervolt. At those powers it's quite understandable. that practically any cooler. of any type and size would show quite similar temps.
To keep my 5800x at peak performance it took Arctic Liquid Freezer II 360 to cool up to 80-82c. and now R9 7900x under Arctic Liquid Freezer III 360 for same temps but they were/are all tuned for best performance.

You could very well be right. What annoyed me the most about his video is the fact that I myself use a Wraith Prism on my R7-5800X3D and it works just fine with any game or operation that I throw at it. People don't realise that as long as a cooler can keep a CPU's temps within spec, that's all that really matters these days because modern CPUs all self-overclock automatically anyway.

What irks me about a lot of these tests is that, while they are accurate, they're always showing the worst-case scenario. While it is important to show the worst-case scenario, the problem with these tests is that they're using conditions that almost nobody would ever use. Running an all-core workload on a 16-core CPU for extended lengths of time is just not something that the overwhelming majority of people will ever do. For those that do, sure, these tests are completely relevant and I myself would recommend an AIO for them. These tests are great for showing what's "good", but they're useless for showing what's "good enough". When people know what's "good" but not what's "good enough" they understandably err on the side of caution and that can cost them both money and performance.

Here's a thought experiment... Which of these would you choose?:

A Ryzen 7 7600X and Thermalright Frozen Edge 240mm AIO for $262

OR

A Ryzen 7 7700 with an included Wraith Prism for $291?

The stipulation is that no matter which choice you make, you can't change the cooler later.

For my money, I'd take option two seven days a week and twice on Sunday. Two extra cores for better long-term performance and probably the prettiest air cooler that I've ever seen. Unlike tower coolers, the RGB lighting of the Wraith Prism points straight up where it's most visible because it's a downdraft cooler (so it also has a direct cooling effect on motherboard VRMs). With the software you can do really cool things like colour combinations that they call "Mirage effects" (I've never seen another cooler that can do something this awesome):

for an extra $29. I seriously doubt that a liquid-cooled R5-7600X could match the performance of an air-cooled R7-7700. You know, it's kinda funny because when I bought my first Ryzen, I was looking at getting an R5-1600X but Canada Computers had an open-box R7-1700 for just $30 more. That's how I ended up with my R7-1700. When I think about it, the fact that the R7-1700 came with the Wraith Spire RGB cooler meant that I actually ended up ahead because I didn't have to buy a cooler separately.

I still have the Wraith Spire RGB and I'll probably throw it onto my R7-5800X3D when I finally do upgrade from it because AM5 motherboards have that weird feature that forces you to take the socket apart if you want to use a different backing plate. Well, the Wraith Prism just uses the hanging locks (that have been a hallmark of AMD's sockets since Socket 754) so I won't have to worry about taking the socket apart and possibly doing some kind of damage to the pins. I'll just lock it to the plastic brackets that are already in place.

I actually had to admonish a "genius" on here who tried to claim that gaming is impossible at high resolutions without water cooling. This is what the constant use of water cooling has caused... People who don't know better think that they NEED it. It's just not good for consumers in general. You know what I mean?

 

[CountMike]

Agreed. The thing is that he didn't start the video by saying that so I was actually expecting to be able to take his findings at face value. At first, I thought he was just an idiot but then I realised that he was just basically making an advertisement under the guise of an objective review.

Yeah, I call the AM2+ cooler the "Baby Wraith" because the Wraith just looks like an oversized version of the AM2+ cooler that came with my Phenom II X4 940. You can see them side by side here in a picture from AnandTech:

The similarities are pretty obvious, eh? Even the heatpipes have the same configuration. Here are some other angles of the Baby Wraith from Silent PC Review:

Side Fin View:

The four copper heat pipes are literally identical to those of the Wraith:

I don't blame you because the AM3/AM3+ coolers that came with my Phenom II X4 965 and FX-8350 were absolute garbage compared to the Baby Wraith that they replaced. They were smaller, lighter and had fewer fins. They also had a smaller fan and that fan didn't have the curved blades of the Baby Wraith, it just had short, fat and straight blades that sounded like a jet engine when the fan ramped up. Since the cooling block was already inferior to the Baby Wraith, they sounded like a jet engine / blower-style GPU cooler. This was clearly when AMD was so desperate for money that they were cutting costs everywhere that they could. I really don't think that this was the best way to do it, but, it's what they did. I discovered this with my Phenom II X4 965 and very quickly replaced it with the Baby Wraith. The difference in noise was not only palpable, but significant. This is the AM3 cooler here shown next to the Baby Wraith:

I'm rather shocked because until now, I thought that all first-gen Ryzens came with coolers. The coolers back then both got discontinued and replaced. The Wraith MAX (which was kind of like an intermediate step between the original Wraith and the current Wraith Prism) and the Wraith Spire RGB, a cooler that was just plain discontinued. The R7-1700 came with the Spire RGB. I think it kinda sucks that AMD discontinued the Spire RGB because it looks a lot nicer than the plain non-RGB Spire. Here's the Wraith MAX and Wraith Spire RGB together:

Take away the RGB ring and you have a standard Wraith Spire. It looks pretty bland and I was thrilled to be able to trade mine (which I never used) to my stepfather for his Wraith Prism. It was actually his idea because he said he wanted rid of it because he hates RGB. I happened to be doing a motherboard swap for him at the time and I had my R5-3600X's Wraith Spire on me. I offered to trade it to him for the Prism. He took one look at it and eagerly agreed. I told him that first we'd have to make sure that the Spire could cool his R9-3900X. So, I installed it, ran some Prime95 and PassMark Burn-in. It got pretty toasty but never went out of spec and he was quite satisfied with the speeds he was getting (I can't remember what the clocks were, but they weren't noticeably low). So, I ended up with this stunner of a CPU cooler in exchange for one that I really wasn't interested in using.

You could very well be right. What annoyed me the most about his video is the fact that I myself use a Wraith Prism on my R7-5800X3D and it works just fine with any game or operation that I throw at it. People don't realise that as long as a cooler can keep a CPU's temps within spec, that's all that really matters these days because modern CPUs all self-overclock automatically anyway.

What irks me about a lot of these tests is that, while they are accurate, they're always showing the worst-case scenario. While it is important to show the worst-case scenario, the problem with these tests is that they're using conditions that almost nobody would ever use. Running an all-core workload on a 16-core CPU for extended lengths of time is just not something that the overwhelming majority of people will ever do. For those that do, sure, these tests are completely relevant and I myself would recommend an AIO for them. These tests are great for showing what's "good", but they're useless for showing what's "good enough". When people know what's "good" but not what's "good enough" they understandably err on the side of caution and that can cost them both money and performance.

Here's a thought experiment... Which of these would you choose?:

A Ryzen 7 7600X and Thermalright Frozen Edge 240mm AIO for $262

OR

A Ryzen 7 7700 with an included Wraith Prism for $291?

The stipulation is that no matter which choice you make, you can't change the cooler later.

For my money, I'd take option two seven days a week and twice on Sunday. Two extra cores for better long-term performance and probably the prettiest air cooler that I've ever seen. Unlike tower coolers, the RGB lighting of the Wraith Prism points straight up where it's most visible because it's a downdraft cooler (so it also has a direct cooling effect on motherboard VRMs). With the software you can do really cool things like colour combinations that they call "Mirage effects" (I've never seen another cooler that can do something this awesome):

for an extra $29. I seriously doubt that a liquid-cooled R5-7600X could match the performance of an air-cooled R7-7700. You know, it's kinda funny because when I bought my first Ryzen, I was looking at getting an R5-1600X but Canada Computers had an open-box R7-1700 for just $30 more. That's how I ended up with my R7-1700. When I think about it, the fact that the R7-1700 came with the Wraith Spire RGB cooler meant that I actually ended up ahead because I didn't have to buy a cooler separately.

I still have the Wraith Spire RGB and I'll probably throw it onto my R7-5800X3D when I finally do upgrade from it because AM5 motherboards have that weird feature that forces you to take the socket apart if you want to use a different backing plate. Well, the Wraith Prism just uses the hanging locks (that have been a hallmark of AMD's sockets since Socket 754) so I won't have to worry about taking the socket apart and possibly doing some kind of damage to the pins. I'll just lock it to the plastic brackets that are already in place.

I actually had to admonish a "genius" on here who tried to claim that gaming is impossible at high resolutions without water cooling. This is what the constant use of water cooling has caused... People who don't know better think that they NEED it. It's just not good for consumers in general. You know what I mean?

I use oversized coolers for two reasons
One is that I OC or at least tune up for maximum performance as I don't usually go for top model with highest price but something enough to do the job even if it takes some fine tuning. I've been doing it since late 1980s.
Second one is for some peace and quiet. Maximum cooling with oversized cooler also have larger and/or more fans which can turn slower for same cooling effect.
That's why I switched to liquid coolers since they became available and of sufficient quality. Air coolers became to large and unwieldy interfering with RAM and case and also need better case cooling while radiator fans also do double duty as case fans.

 

[Avro Arrow]

Moving thread from Cooling to Opinions and Experiences.

Discussion material - not a cooling problem per se.

Yeah, I wasn't sure where to put it. Thanks for putting it in the right place!

 

[Avro Arrow]

I use oversized coolers for two reasons
One is that I OC or at least tune up for maximum performance as I don't usually go for top model with highest price but something enough to do the job even if it takes some fine tuning. I've been doing it since late 1980s.

Yeah, I used to do some OC back in the day, not much, but some. The thing is that I only ever tried overclocking to extend the life of a CPU that I was planning to replace anyway, just to give me a bit of time to save up for the replacement part(s).

Second one is for some peace and quiet. Maximum cooling with oversized cooler also have larger and/or more fans which can turn slower for same cooling effect.

I can understand that and that's the reason I only buy triple-fan cards. The only cards that I bought in the past ten years that weren't triple-fan were an ASRock RX 6600 Challenger (that I only bought for the free copy of Starfield) which I used to build a complete system for one of my costumers' kids to play Minecraft on. An RX 580 2058SP that I bought from AliExpress for my mother's HTPC and a Powercolor RX 6500 XT ITX Gaming (single-fan) that I gave to my mother for her HTPC when I discovered that the RX 580 2048SP doesn't like non-UEFI motherboards (she uses my old FX-8350 on a Gigabyte 990FX board). My mother doesn't do anything strenuous enough to make even that single fan ramp up so it doesn't get loud anyway.

To be honest though, the Wraith Prism isn't very loud and what noise it does make gets lost in the sound of my PSU, case fans and video card. I know what you mean when you say that you prefer quieter coolers because that nightmarish AM3 cooler was worse than the blower cooler on my first HD 4870. The sound of the Wraith Prism is actually rather soft and I can't pick it out from the sounds of the other fans in my PC. I don't know this for sure but I would expect that your original Wraith and the Wraith MAX probably make exactly the same sound as the Wraith Prism because except for the lightning, they seem to be otherwise identical.

That's why I switched to liquid coolers since they became available and of sufficient quality. Air coolers became to large and unwieldy interfering with RAM and case and also need better case cooling while radiator fans also do double duty as case fans.

Yes, a lot of them have become rather titanic, to the point that it's like turning your motherboard into Asgard with the giant world tree mounted on it. Those dual/triple-fan double towers like the Deepcool Assassin III would never find a place in my rig. The Wraith Prism however, is exactly the same size as your original Wraith (AFAIK) and it doesn't interfere with anything on my motherboard. It's a pretty revolutionary stock cooler because it works about as well as a CoolerMaster Hyper 212, one of the most respected air coolers ever made. The price is right too because there's nothing better than free, eh?

 

[CountMike]

Yeah, I used to do some OC back in the day, not much, but some. The thing is that I only ever tried overclocking to extend the life of a CPU that I was planning to replace anyway, just to give me a bit of time to save up for the replacement part(s).

I can understand that and that's the reason I only buy triple-fan cards. The only cards that I bought in the past ten years that weren't triple-fan were an ASRock RX 6600 Challenger (that I only bought for the free copy of Starfield) which I used to build a complete system for one of my costumers' kids to play Minecraft on. An RX 580 2058SP that I bought from AliExpress for my mother's HTPC and a Powercolor RX 6500 XT ITX Gaming (single-fan) that I gave to my mother for her HTPC when I discovered that the RX 580 2048SP doesn't like non-UEFI motherboards (she uses my old FX-8350 on a Gigabyte 990FX board). My mother doesn't do anything strenuous enough to make even that single fan ramp up so it doesn't get loud anyway.

To be honest though, the Wraith Prism isn't very loud and what noise it does make gets lost in the sound of my PSU, case fans and video card. I know what you mean when you say that you prefer quieter coolers because that nightmarish AM3 cooler was worse than the blower cooler on my first HD 4870. The sound of the Wraith Prism is actually rather soft and I can't pick it out from the sounds of the other fans in my PC. I don't know this for sure but I would expect that your original Wraith and the Wraith MAX probably make exactly the same sound as the Wraith Prism because except for the lightning, they seem to be otherwise identical.

Yes, a lot of them have become rather titanic, to the point that it's like turning your motherboard into Asgard with the giant world tree mounted on it. Those dual/triple-fan double towers like the Deepcool Assassin III would never find a place in my rig. The Wraith Prism however, is exactly the same size as your original Wraith (AFAIK) and it doesn't interfere with anything on my motherboard. It's a pretty revolutionary stock cooler because it works about as well as a CoolerMaster Hyper 212, one of the most respected air coolers ever made. The price is right too because there's nothing better than free, eh?

CM 212 evo reputation is pretty overblown and generally expensive. LC-cc-120 for instance is less than half price and slightly better.

 

[Avro Arrow]

CM 212 evo reputation is pretty overblown and generally expensive. LC-cc-120 for instance is less than half price and slightly better.

Oh totally. The thing is that when I bought one (just to try out), it cost me less than $20CAD and that was really one of the things that made it so popular. These days, its reputation has caused its price to inflate dramatically but people still buy the thing even though you can buy similar tower coolers for $20USD or less. I remember when Canada Computers was clearing out DeepCool tower coolers for like $15CAD about three years ago. They looked pretty much identical to the Hyper 212 and I guess that Cooler Master's patent must have expired because there are so many tower coolers that look and function exactly the same way on the market now. Still, so many people want to see that Cooler Master logo on their air cooler.

I know it won't happen in my lifetime but I do hope that one day, humans stop being such brand-wh0res.

 

[punkncat]

@Avro Arrow , those AM/FM coolers you posted above are often perfect for use on a modified graphics card with bad or unobtainium stock fan. By design they screw directly into the heat sink so you select the correct size, screw it right to the heat stack and a quick lookup and splice of wiring and they typically work quite well if not better than the stock solution.

 

[Colif]

Many have lost the ability to independently research anything. They just need an influencer to tell them the answer (to what is often the wrong question to start with).

meanwhile I look at so many reviews I run out of English ones.

appeals to authority are everywhere.

 

[CountMike]

Lol. advertising and influnecers. What burns my a$$ are grandiose names for products. "killer MBs" and other Super-duper something or other. More pompous the name, worse product it is.
And then there's famous"GAMING" in a name of product, Gaming PC case, really ? Gaming mouse pads with 10 times the price, gaming desks and chairs. Any PC can be used to run games, just depends on kind of game, latest fad is to make DooM run on anything, from watches to fridges, even on a computer that was on Apollo spacecraft to moon or an oscilloscope.
Then I suppose opposite of gaming PC is "Office PC? What kind of office, my PC in the office has to run CAD programs with associated 3D physics simulation which is 3 times harder than any game.Excuse the rant but I've been working on and with computers since well before PCs and gone thru thick and thin with them.

 

[punkncat]

^ I couldn't agree more. I have to say that I am glad that at least on the fringes of all the rainbow puke systems being forced down our gullet there are a few parts out there that aren't LED everything.

 

[mihen]

Pretty sure you can get AMD chips without the cooler for less cost. I would include the affiliate links for the CPUs as well.
I decided in my last build, watercooling the cpu wasn't worth it, so I kept the stock cooler. Watercooling the GPU is so worth it on the other hand.