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Archived from groups: rec.audio.tech,comp.dsp (More info?)
Tachyon <shifty@sidehack.sat.gweep.net> writes:
> On 2004-05-21, Jon Harris <goldentully@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> "jim" <"N0sp"@m.sjedging@mwt.net> wrote in message
>> news:40ae12c8_4@corp.newsgroups.com...
>>>
>>>
>>> Randy Yates wrote:
>>>
>>> > The noise will be high, but my intuition tells me you will be able to hear
>>> > the signal (at least one that is at a high level) in the noise. Almost
>>> > certainly one would be able to hear a full-scale sinewave in such noise.
>>>
>>> Why would the scale of the sine wave make any difference or maybe I
>>> misunderstand what you're saying.
>>
>> It is simply a signal-to-noise ratio issue. Much noise is added by the
>> dithering/quantizing process. If the original signal is quite loud, it will
>> still be recognizable above the noise floor. If it is very low level, it will
>> be further buried by the noise. I did a quick experiment, and a full scale
>> sinewave quanitzed with dither was easily heard. I decreased the level and
>> somewhere around 20-30dB down, you really start to lose it. I was actually
>> suprised by how low you could go and still make out the tone in the noise.
>
> Here is an experiment I did.
>
> There are 16 repetitions of the well-known 909 kick drum, mixing triangular noise
> in varying amounts and quantizing to 1 bit. Each hit of the drum doubles the
> noise. It's really interesting to look at with a wave editor, as well as to
> listen. At the low-noise version, you hear a "mean" kick sound. At the noisy end,
> you hear more dynamic range and more noise. I personally like it best with
> about 3/4 of an LSB added. BTW, the subjective volume seems quieter when
> more noise is added:
>
> http://www.gweep.net/~shifty/audio/1bit/reduction/re02.wav
>
> best listened to in loop mode!!
Cool! But... You made the dang thing so short! I mean, bszzzt and it's done!
--
% Randy Yates % "Rollin' and riding and slippin' and
%% Fuquay-Varina, NC % sliding, it's magic."
%%% 919-577-9882 %
%%%% <yates@ieee.org> % 'Living' Thing', *A New World Record*, ELO
http://home.earthlink.net/~yatescr
Tachyon <shifty@sidehack.sat.gweep.net> writes:
> On 2004-05-21, Jon Harris <goldentully@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> "jim" <"N0sp"@m.sjedging@mwt.net> wrote in message
>> news:40ae12c8_4@corp.newsgroups.com...
>>>
>>>
>>> Randy Yates wrote:
>>>
>>> > The noise will be high, but my intuition tells me you will be able to hear
>>> > the signal (at least one that is at a high level) in the noise. Almost
>>> > certainly one would be able to hear a full-scale sinewave in such noise.
>>>
>>> Why would the scale of the sine wave make any difference or maybe I
>>> misunderstand what you're saying.
>>
>> It is simply a signal-to-noise ratio issue. Much noise is added by the
>> dithering/quantizing process. If the original signal is quite loud, it will
>> still be recognizable above the noise floor. If it is very low level, it will
>> be further buried by the noise. I did a quick experiment, and a full scale
>> sinewave quanitzed with dither was easily heard. I decreased the level and
>> somewhere around 20-30dB down, you really start to lose it. I was actually
>> suprised by how low you could go and still make out the tone in the noise.
>
> Here is an experiment I did.
>
> There are 16 repetitions of the well-known 909 kick drum, mixing triangular noise
> in varying amounts and quantizing to 1 bit. Each hit of the drum doubles the
> noise. It's really interesting to look at with a wave editor, as well as to
> listen. At the low-noise version, you hear a "mean" kick sound. At the noisy end,
> you hear more dynamic range and more noise. I personally like it best with
> about 3/4 of an LSB added. BTW, the subjective volume seems quieter when
> more noise is added:
>
> http://www.gweep.net/~shifty/audio/1bit/reduction/re02.wav
>
> best listened to in loop mode!!
Cool! But... You made the dang thing so short! I mean, bszzzt and it's done!
--
% Randy Yates % "Rollin' and riding and slippin' and
%% Fuquay-Varina, NC % sliding, it's magic."
%%% 919-577-9882 %
%%%% <yates@ieee.org> % 'Living' Thing', *A New World Record*, ELO
http://home.earthlink.net/~yatescr