+12 Volt Rail Amp Rating

[lunyone]

A couple of links for information on a Quality PSU that can handle a 8800gtx system.
8800gtx on 380w PSU!
http://www.overclockers.com/articles1452/

PSU - $49 shipped! Can power 8800gtx and an OC’d e6600! See link above for proof!
Antec Earthwatt 380W P/Satx 12V v.2.2 80MM P/S2 Fan 80-Plus Certified - EA380
http://www.buy.com/prod/antec-earthwatt-380w-p-satx-12v-v-2-2-80mm-p-s2-fan-80-plus-certified/q/loc/101/203477214.html

 

[sailer]

I also noted that comment from Jonny when reading through his reviews. I was under the impression that he wasn't sure if he did something wrong while testing, therefore he didn't want to blame the PSU for his mistake. I also haven't seen any black marks against the TT 750wt from other reviewers. Sometimes we purchasers of hardware are left taking the best guess we can, trusting the experts to know more about what's happening than we do.

In any case, from my own personal experience, I've been running the 700wt version of the Toughpower for over a year now and have not noted any power problems while monitoring it. I did decide on the 850wt version for my next build, both because of the increased amps and the fact that I will probably run a Crossfire or SLI setup for my new widescreen monitor.

 

[Zorg]

With your current configuration that PSU is loafing along anyway. You are nowhere near loading all 4 of the rails to 14 amps. I didn't get that he thought he screwed up though. No matter.

 

[sailer]

A couple of links for information on a Quality PSU that can handle a 8800gtx system.
8800gtx on 380w PSU!

This is similar to a test that the Inq one time did while using a 500wt PSU to power a machine with a 8800 GTX. While it is true that, depending on the exact hardware used, a person can get by with a fairly small PSU, it usually isn't recommended. When a smaller than normal PSU is used, there is little or no room for error, as the author of the article noted in the case of the line power dip. Another thing is that with high quality PSUs, their efficiency is roughly the same (over 80%) from a low wattage draw to a high wattage. This means that when I'm just typing away on the internet and my computer is only using 300wts or so of power, its still giving me over 80% efficiency. Just because my PSU is rated for 700wts, doesn't mean that I use it all the time, and when its putting out 300wt, its only putting out the same amount of waste heat that a 350wt or 400wt PSU would, providing they are all running at over 80% efficiency at 300wts. But when I'm running games and drawing full load on everything, pushing the power draw up to 600wts or so, my 700wt PSU covers everything, while a small PSU would fail

One of the common problems that comes up here is someone asking why their computer is crashing and it turns out they added a new video card and their old PSU couldn't keep up with the power demand. It always amazes me when someone is willing to pay $500 to even $700 for a high power video card and then balks at buying a PSU to power it. For myself, I rather buy a PSU that is too large and have a margin of safety then to try to use one that is just barely enough or too small and risk the expensive hardware I just purchased.

As for my own purchase of a 850wt PSU, I used the extreme power supply calcualtor and got a recommendation of 828wts if I use two video cards and a bunch of other power hogging hardware, to a low of 674wts if I only use one video card. It seemed sensible to me to buy the 850wt PSU and have room to expand, rather than to buy a 700wt PSU and perhaps have to spend more money later for another PSU. But that's my thinking, and others may decide differently.

 

[lunyone]

I was only showing the minimal possibilities of a QUALITY PSU. Like I would state, that there isn't really any extra head room with that PSU. I wouldn't spend $50 on a $1000 system. It can run, but over the long haul you might eventually run into problems. My general rule of thumb is spend 10% of the build on a quality PSU, so on a $1000 system you should spend around $100 for a PSU.

 

[Zorg]

A couple of links for information on a Quality PSU that can handle a 8800gtx system.
8800gtx on 380w PSU!
http://www.overclockers.com/articles1452/

PSU - $49 shipped! Can power 8800gtx and an OC’d e6600! See link above for proof!
Antec Earthwatt 380W P/Satx 12V v.2.2 80MM P/S2 Fan 80-Plus Certified - EA380
http://www.buy.com/prod/antec-earthwatt-380w-p-satx-12v-v-2-2-80mm-p-s2-fan-80-plus-certified/q/loc/101/203477214.html

I have seen that article and it does put things into perspective. I do have a concern about the quality of the components that are put into some of the smaller PSUs, that may be unfounded in the better named ones. Something to consider is that a larger PSU, and I'm not talking about 1Kw, Should be built to dissipate heat better, so it should run cooler and therefore not age as quickly. Additionally, as the capacitors age the PSU can't deliver it's rated output so it puts a greater strain on it. If the PSU is a dual rail you need to be sure that you have enough current available to the video card. Although, I'm getting the feeling that most are lying about being ATX12V compliant, and pretty much all of them are single rail, I could be wrong though.

 

[sailer]

My general rule of thumb is spend 10% of the build on a quality PSU, so on a $1000 system you should spend around $100 for a PSU.

And using your rule of thumb, since my new build will be running a little over $2600, $220 for a PSU is within that 10%. Yeah, I probably could get by with a 750wt PSU and save $30 or so, but I'd rather err on the side of too much than too little.

Zorg, I think you're correct about most companies lying about being ATX12V compliant. I've had a few PSUs that failed for mysterious reasons. They were labeled as being big enough, SLI compliant and all that, but when under pressure, they died. I do know that the power coming out of the wall socket where I live in Nevada is pretty unstable, so that is one other reason that I buy PSUs on the large side. I really hate it when I get seriously into a game and suddenly the computer slows to a crawl or crashes out because of power problems.

 

[lunyone]

I have seen that article and it does put things into perspective. I do have a concern about the quality of the components that are put into some of the smaller PSUs, that may be unfounded in the better named ones. Something to consider is that a larger PSU, and I'm not talking about 1Kw, Should be built to dissipate heat better, so it should run cooler and therefore not age as quickly. Additionally, as the capacitors age the PSU can't deliver it's rated output so it puts a greater strain on it. If the PSU is a dual rail you need to be sure that you have enough current available to the video card. Although, I'm getting the feeling that most are lying about being ATX12V compliant, and pretty much all of them are single rail, I could be wrong though.

Just a general rule. That way if someone is building a $700 rig, they should expect to spend $70 worth on a quality PSU, not the $30 ones that I see people have in their builds. Just something that I try to infuse into these newer builders that ask "review my build" posts. Obviously with a $2600 build you won't need a $260 PSU, but I generally don't get too many $2600 builds that use a cheap PSU.

 

[Zorg]

Just a general rule. That way if someone is building a $700 rig, they should expect to spend $70 worth on a quality PSU, not the $30 ones that I see people have in their builds. Just something that I try to infuse into these newer builders that ask "review my build" posts. Obviously with a $2600 build you won't need a $260 PSU, but I generally don't get too many $2600 builds that use a cheap PSU.

I got the feeling from your post that you were advocating a small cheap PSU. I guess I took That wrong.

A couple of links for information on a Quality PSU that can handle a 8800gtx system.
8800gtx on 380w PSU!
http://www.overclockers.com/articles1452/

PSU - $49 shipped! Can power 8800gtx and an OC’d e6600! See link above for proof!
Antec Earthwatt 380W P/Satx 12V v.2.2 80MM P/S2 Fan 80-Plus Certified - EA380
http://www.buy.com/prod/antec-earthwatt-380w-p-satx-12v-v-2-2-80mm-p-s2-fan-80-plus-certified/q/loc/101/203477214.html

 

[lunyone]

No I wasn't trying to advocate a cheap PSU, just showing what a QUALITY PSU can do, under certain circumstances. Most posts the deal with PSU questions have been about CHEAP PSU's of not so good quality. I use that link when people are talking about 1000w PSU's or some outrageous situation. If you read my follow up post, I addressed it pretty well, I believe.

 

[Jonesy1499]

Thanks for the replies.

By the way, I read that many Toughpower 750's made buzzing noises. Does anyone know if this problems has been fixed, or should I expect it if I get the PSU?

I'm still not sure if I should get Toughpower, or the Corsair 620HX. Do you think the multiple rails of the TP makes it a safer product in reality, or is it more like a theoretical thing?

The two PSUs cost about the same in my area, so my only concerns are safety on one hand, and whether it will get the job done without annyoing issues on the other.

Any input would be appreciated.

 

[sailer]

While I don't have any personal experience with the Corsair 620HX, it is listed as a tier 2 PSu, which means its pretty good overall. Realistically, the PC P&C, the TT Toughpower, or the Corsair are all good PSUs, each with its own advantages and disadvantages in comparison to each other. Some people prefer multiple rails for reasons of safety, but I think that when dealing with a good quality PSU, that is probably not a real concern.

As to the reported buzzing sound, I have never noticed such on my TT Toughpower 700wt. Then again, it could be covered up by the noise from the 8800 GTS, the five fans, the CPU fan, etc. Be aware that all PSUs will make some noise, buzzing, fans, or whatever. Sometimes it will be loud, sometimes not, or maybe it will be in a vibration range that a person doesn't notice or hear at all. BUt I can say that of the different PSUs in my four computers, the Toughpower is the quietest.

 

[croc]

As Altazi said get a PSU that has a large single rail. The silencer 750 is kind of expensive and larger than you need. Get the Silencer® 610 EPS12V Power Supply instead. $119.00 factory direct with a 49A single rail. Check Neweggs price. The Corsairs are also single rail, even though they don't say so. I don't really like the cheesy modular cables on the Corsair though. Here's a link to Power Supply Myths Exposed! with some good information.

Edit: It's also a tier 1 PSU Official XS Tiered PSU Manufacturer Brand Listing Phase III

I'm gertting tired of the number of times that I see that marketing blurb from PcP&C trotted out as genuine fact. Maybe read the RFC for atx power supplies first?

PcP& C is pretty far outside of the RFC specs... However their 1000 watt unit would make a pretty good wire-welder.

All of the above said, one cannot deny that the PcP&C has good voltages, tight in all ranges (for most of their units) and very low noise.

But I'd be nervous that with a 'single rail' if anything did go bad, it would happen fast, and be accompanied with a lot of magical blue smoke.

The Silverstone units are 'multiple rails', in that they have several regulator units that limit the 12v output to the RFC specs of 20A. But, as with most tier 1 MFG's, behind those regulated outputs there is one 12VDC rail.

Jonnyguru.com has some interesting articles on the subject, if you look.

OK, rant over.

 

[Zorg]

My turn.

I'm gertting tired of the number of times that I see that marketing blurb from PcP&C trotted out as genuine fact. Maybe read the RFC for atx power supplies first?

I have read the developers guide, and fully understand the 240VA limit per rail. If you have another link that you think is better, then post it and I will read it. Let me know what in the "marketing blurb" is false and we can argue it. But your statement above carries no weight, due to the lack of specificity.

PcP& C is pretty far outside of the RFC specs... However their 1000 watt unit would make a pretty good wire-welder.

You are pretty sharp to notice that. Did you also notice that they don't claim to be compliant with ATX12V specs at all. They claim that they are EPS12V compliant. So why would you expect them to be compliant with ATX12V?

All of the above said, one cannot deny that the PcP&C has good voltages, tight in all ranges (for most of their units) and very low noise.

Here we agree, although Jonnyguru says they are loud in his review.

But I'd be nervous that with a 'single rail' if anything did go bad, it would happen fast, and be accompanied with a lot of magical blue smoke.

If you bothered to read my posts in this thread you would have seen that I went to great lengths to ensure that anyone reading this thread would be acutely aware of the risks associated with single rail PSUs. Go read my other posts and see for yourself.

The Silverstone units are 'multiple rails', in that they have several regulator units that limit the 12v output to the RFC specs of 20A. But, as with most tier 1 MFG's, behind those regulated outputs there is one 12VDC rail.

It's funny that you would make such a mistake after telling me to "Maybe read the RFC for atx power supplies first?" The Silverstone power supply does not have voltage regulators on the "multiple rails". It has one voltage regulator for the 12V and each "rail" is only current limited. A current limiter is not a voltage regulator. Maybe you should do some reading.

OK, rant over.

Me too.

 

[Jonesy1499]

Thanks for replying, Sailer.

 

[boner]

What kpo6969 means is you need to check the total watts available to the +12v rail(s)
http://images10.newegg.com/NeweggImage/productimage/17-190-011-04.jpg
In the example of the 500w PSU above you can just make out that +12V1=18A and +12V2=20A for 38A.
But if you read the fine print you see that only 360W are available to +12V1+12V2. So 360W / 12W = 30Amps.
So instead of the expected 38Amps that power supply will only support 30Amps of +12 volts.

well... that helped me

 

[g13man]

Has any one mentioned or know the size of wire [awg] that is needed/safe for these amperages
18
24
32
48
I mean are the single rail PWS using large enough wires?

 

[nukemaster]

lets just say the wires to take the full 60 amps(let alone the 72[80 peak] on a pc power and cooling 1000watt unit) would get quite think and unmanageable for a computer psu. My best guess is like 10 or bigger(lower number = bigger) and come on, flex that!!!! [EDIT] Think car battery wires [/EDIT]

There is no danger in a large single rail psu....just don't put more then 20 amps(to be safe) on 1 lead(i am calling a wire from the board of the psu a lead)....so add everything on that lead and make sure its under 20 amps. if its not use 2 separate sets of leads(wires)....split it up...

Its kind of like not doing this but here there is a breaker to save you 😛

 

[sailer]

And if the breaker doesn't save you, you'd better hope the fire department is close. I do remember someone years back that complained about his 20 amp breaker tripping all the time, so he replaced it with a 40 amp breaker. Guess what happened next?

 

[nukemaster]

And if the breaker doesn't save you, you'd better hope the fire department is close. I do remember someone years back that complained about his 20 amp breaker tripping all the time, so he replaced it with a 40 amp breaker. Guess what happened next?

HAHAHAAA

that will teach them not to plug too much in

On the plus side....15 amps(standard here) is plenty of power...i mean 1800 watts...come on.....you do not want to see what i have on 1 plug....but i KNOW the wiring is good(and overrated)