2D, Acceleration, And Windows: Aren't All Graphics Cards Equal?

[Guest]

Very interesting article, and we can easily see this problem on PC Pitstop Overdrive 2D tests, where my 5970 gives results far worse than a 8800 GT, and turning off Aero, the results go up 3X.

 

[xiando]

It would be very interesting to see a very basic 2D benchmark which can be done on a GNU/Linux distribution or two in addition to XP, Vista, and Windows 7.

There are both proprietary and free software drivers available for both ATI and Nvidia available (Intel only does a superb performing (on their hardware, anyway) free driver). The proprietary GNU/Linux drivers share most of their code (80-90%) with the Windows drivers.

The proprietary ATI catalyst driver performs horribly compared to the free xorg radeon driver when it comes to 2D. The difference really is significant.

The 2D difference between Nvidias xorg driver and the free Nouveau driver is less, but Nouveau comes out ahead there too.

This means that it's quite possible to use GNU/Linux to see just how big a difference the drivers make when it comes to 2D.

One last thing, Windows users should note that GNU/Linux people care very much about 2D performance since that is what we use on a daily basis. GNU/Linux people rarely play games, and there are barely any games available.

 

[davecason]

One of the best and most interesting computer articles I have read in a long time. It makes me wonder if we need to break out our old Ziff-Davis benchmarks to square away the 2-D capabilities of platforms during their nascent benchmark evaluations.

 

[Guest]

Just as an aside, some of the very best 2D graphics cards in the old days were from a company called Matrox. It would be very interesting to see how their past and current offerings compare, as well.

I'm not a gamer. My only graphical applications interests are in photo editing and similar tasks. PhotoShop and Bibble are the tools that keep bread on my table and a roof over my head. Having just purchased a new, near-state-of-the-art system (i7-960 cpu, 12GB DDR3-1600 ram, ATI HD 5850 video, 2x Dell U4210 monitors), I'm feeling ripped-off by what appears to be AMD/ATI's total concentration on the 3D/gaming community and total disregard for the people who actually work for a living.

 

[mariushm]

[citation][nom]one-shot[/nom]LOL. The clip of Steve Ballmer looks like an ad from the late Billy Mays. To think he's the CEO of Microsoft after watching that clip makes me laugh. I'm going to watch it again.[/citation]

The clip was a parody made by Ballmer for a meeting they had, as a joke. It was never aired on TV and was not an official ad.

 

[dur_trix]

what? there's a elephant helping with the 2D rendering on the HD5000? Damn.... nice catch, but be realistic, is the future of gaming in the 2D area? DAMNIT NO!!!!! so why the hell do you care if it can render 2D or not? we live in a 3D world so .... . .. time nicely wasted

 

[Guest]

I have not had opportunity to test ATI 5XXX series card yet, but as far as I can remember, NVIDIA 7600 card was very sluggish on XP and Vista 2D, one of the reasons I bought ATI4870, which , however performed adequately. Too bad if the situation has gone worse.

 

[rigaudio]

Good article. I hadn't even thought about 2D performance until now.

 

[EXT64]

I have noticed some 2-D issues before on some of my lower cards. Hopefully it is a fairly simple and quick fix.

 

[mitch074]

@Xiando: yeah. I said that 3 comment pages sooner

 

[Guest]

Finally, a clue as to what is going on here! My new Win7 rig with an ATI5750 was falling on it face after I got the new setup - I ensured the latest drivers were being used as was pretty surprised at how poor it was behaving (no games, just the standard Win7 desktop). I ended up switching to an ATI3650, an ATI4670 card and a NVidia 8600 card (I had these spares around from older systems) during the investigation of the problem, only to find that all of these older cards behaved wonderfully in Win7.

 

[BlueCat57]

Hopefully this is a relavant question. I have fairly limited knowledge of how the graphics systems work.

Would having a Hybrid-SLI or the equivalent CrossFire type setup allow the integrated chip's superior 2D performance to balance out the discrete card's inferior 2D capabilities?

 

[mitch074]

@BlueCat57: that would be like hunting ants with an atomic bomb.

But yeah, it would.

 

[somanyinputs]

Have the 2D board makers such as Matrox also neglected Windows 7 and Vista? After Windows XP Matrox is showing only limited support for both Vista and Win7 via asterisk and fine print for their .
From the Matrox site . . .
1 Stretched desktop not currently supported under Windows 7.

2 Operating system, hardware and driver compatibility need to be verified for large monitor
configuration arrays. Contact Matrox for details.

3 Limited support under Windows 7 and Microsoft Windows Vista, Contact Matrox for details.
http://www.matrox.com/graphics/en/products/graphics_cards/m_series/m9188pciex16/

 

[somanyinputs]

For six monitors, what is the best performing 2D multi-display video board for a Windows 7 64 bit professional or ultimate environment using either Intel 1156 or 1133 based motherboards ?

 

[bboysil]

WM_PAINT is not a graphics system routine... it is a message that Windows sends to application window to let it know that it must redraw it's contents...
also, when you said SDI(single device interface) you probably meant SDI(single document interface) judging from the context.
Otherwise, aside from some other minor technical mistakes, it's a good article for the average reader(read: "non computer engineer reader")

 

[chovav]

where is the second part already???

 

[nemo888]

The second part has been out in German for at least a week. Maybe they are doing all the benchmarks first and then doing a bigger article.

 

[BlueCat57]

Not sure if it is classed as 2D but am pretty sure that not ALL are capable of 1080p playback. From what I've read on Tom's you should be sure to check the video card specs carefully. Also from my reading some cards are better at Blu-Ray playback than others. And your software choice is important as well. And of course your CPU/RAM needs to be powerful enough. The video card is key, but the whole system needs to have the capability.

 

[TheGreatGrapeApe]

Video playback is 2D, but it's something that is first CPU dependent, and then GPU accelerated (especially encrypted discs like BluRay), BluRay also involves other factors like encoding bit-rate, multiple video tracks, and audio track decompression to make it a more complex question.

This investigation is about the base 2D acceleration which involves less variables and is less CPU dependent.

 

[abduktedtemplar]

hopefully this will address the dual screen flickering when trying to OC in ati overdrive.

 

[eloric]

I noticed this problem myself - on passmark, no less. If I turn off all graphics enhancements in Windows 7, performance is greatly improved. Probably what the AMD guys discovered.

 

[clinamen_1]

eloric, or anyone:
Can you be more specific? By "all", do you mean more than disabling Aero, and if so, what?

Thanks!

 

[eloric]

I simply went to the control panel, All Contol Panel Items, Perfomrance Information and Tools, then selected Adjust Visual Effects. This imporved my 2D Graphic Passmark score by an overall 60%.

 

[brandobean]

I would STRONGLY suggest that 2D performance be included in all your graphics card reviews. Many of us use Photoshop, audio applications and other 2D programs a lot, likely more hours out of the day than we are playing a game. I would also like to see comments about whether a video card accelerates Flash video and video conversion. We Watch flash videos all day too.