2x GTX 260 vs GTX 470 vs HD 5870

[andreasx]

What do you recommend? Building a new system and video card is my weak point in knowledge.

BUDGET RANGE: around $400 seems to be the sweet spot

USAGE FROM MOST TO LEAST IMPORTANT:
Sony Vegas (edit video)
Photoshop CS4
Premiere
Giant database with text and images (over 500k images)
Gaming Bad company 2

CURRENT GPU AND POWER SUPPLY:
new system
Coolermaster Silent Pro 1000W Modular Power Supply SLI ATX12V 24PIN Active PFC PCI-E 135mm Fan


OTHER RELEVANT SYSTEM SPECS:
Intel Core i7 930 Quad Core Processor LGA1366 2.8GHZ 8MB L3 Cache 130W 45NM

Corsair Cooling Hydro Series H50 High Performance CPU Cooler System
OR (not sure yet)
Noctua NH-U12P SE2 Heatpipe Cooler W/ 2XNH-P12 120MM Fans

Gigabyte X58A-UD3R ATX LGA1366 X58 DDR3 4PCI-E SATA3 USB3.0 Sound GLAN CrossFireX SLI Motherboard
G.SKILL F3-16000CL9T-6GBRH Ripjaws 12GB 6X2GB DDR3-2000 CL9-9-9-24 240PIN Triple Channel i7 Memory
Cooler Master Haf 932 Full Tower Black EATX Case 6X5.25 1X3.5 5X3.5INT No PSU USB eSATA 1394 Audio
2x Western Digital Caviar Black 1TB SATA3 6GB/S 7200RPM 64MB Cache 3.5IN Dual Proc Hard Drive OEM
Western Digital Velociraptor WD3000HLFS 300GB SATA2 10000RPM 5.5MS 16MB 3.5IN Hard Drive OEM
Microsoft Windows 7 Ultimate Edition 64BIT


PREFERRED WEBSITE(S) FOR PARTS: ncix.com
COUNTRY OF ORIGIN: Canada

PARTS PREFERENCES: past experience was not great with ATI drivers /gigabyte cards to match MoBo preferred.

OVERCLOCKING: Maybe / likely
SLI OR CROSSFIRE: Maybe

MONITOR RESOLUTION: 1920x1080 for now

ADDITIONAL COMMENTS:
Last computer lasted 9 years with casual upgrades (now with mobo and / RAM issues), would like to have this one do the same.
Want to edit HD from Canon 7D and work with RAW photo files without waiting.

GTX 260

Gigabyte GeForce GTX 260 Super Overclock 680MHZ 896MB 2.5GHZ GDDR3 PCI-E DVI VGA HDMI Video Card
http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=44683&vpn=GV-N26SO-896I&manufacture=Gigabyte

GTX 470

Gigabyte GeForce GTX 470 Fermi 607MHZ 1280MB 3348MHZ GDDR5 PCI-E 2XDVI MINI-HDMI Video Card
http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=52409&vpn=GV-N470D5-13I-B&manufacture=Gigabyte


HD 5870
Gigabyte Radeon HD 5870 850MHZ 1GB GDDR5 4.8GHZ 2XDVI HDMI Display Port DIRECTX11 PCI-E Video Card
http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=51826&vpn=GV-R587UD-1GD&manufacture=Gigabyte

Thanks

 

[Bluescreendeath]

1 5870 is the best option.

The GTX260s don't have DX11, and the GTX470 runs really hot and uses as much energy (if not more) as the 5870 even though it is weaker.

 

[jerreece]

I'd say ATI5850 or ATI 5870 over all for bang for your buck. Two GTX 260's game well now, but if you're not wanting to upgrade for a while you're always best off with a single high end GPU rather than 2 older ones.

Although, considering the GTX 470 is quite a bit cheaper in your links, it gives that a thumbs up in my book. nVidia has focused more on GPU use for video/photo editing type stuff. But frankly, I dunno that it's going to matter based on what you listed you do.

The 5870 will run cooler and use less energy. And may very well perform a little better than the GTX 470 over all. But it's a substantial price difference between the two ($440 vs $375)

 

[kashtr0_305]

I'D RUN THE 5870 ALL DAY!

 

[kashtr0_305]

THANKS AGAIN!

 

[AMW1011]

+1 on the 5870

The 260 SLI would match the 5870 for performance, but it will use more power and run a lot hotter, plus lacking DX11and occasional scaling problems, it costs more too.

The 470 on the otherhand, uses 50W more, runs up to 90+ degrees and has lower performance than the 5870, no good.

Another option is Crossfiring 2 5770s, it will perform almost identical to 2 260s, has lower power, cooler and DX11 suopport, it is $80 cheaper too.
http://www.ncix.com/products/?sku=49042&vpn=GV-R577UD-1GD&manufacture=Gigabyte

Finally, you could get a nice 5850 and OC it, 5870 performances and cheaper.

The GTX 470 is $65 cheaper than the 5870, did you mention that? It uses ONLY 50w more power, and uses as much power as the GTX 285. 2 GTX 260s use almost twice that, so he is obviously uncaring towards power, he has a 1KW PSU afterall. Also with the new drivers out(link: http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/video/display/gigabyte-gf-gtx400_17.html#sect0), the GTX 470 is extremely close to the 5870 and within 1% at resolutions of 1920x1200 or lower, and still has another 10-20% performance advantage in heavy tessellation which is nice for future games.

Another cool thing about the GTX 470 is that it overclocks higher than a 5870, 200 MHz is pretty common without voltage change compared to the 5870's 150 MHz ceiling, and the GTX 4xx series gains a lot more performance per clock when overclocked compared to the 5870. This means:

In DX10:
GTX 470 = 5870
GTX 470 OC >= 5870 OC

In DX11 with heavy tessellation (future titles):
GTX 470 > 5870
GTX 470 OC >> 5870 OC

Do you see a patern?

Now, OP, you should know that these cards run a bit hot and are a bit loud. That said, a GTX 470 will run cooler and quieter than 2 GTX 260s in SLI, with a 5870 beating out both options. Also note than nVidia has CUDA which will benefit at least 2 of the programs you listed I believe.

Face it, all in all the GTX 470 is a far better buy than the 5870 as long as you have a decent PSU and case at the same price, but the GTX 470 is actually CHEAPER than the 5870 making the decision not much of a decision at all.

Do note that many people on here are operating under misinformation or old information.

 

[andreasx]

It looks like everyone feels that dx 11 support is more important then CUDA cores for photo and video editing or is the regualre performs out weigh these features? Am I just buying into the nvidia hype? The ATI website did not provide a 'help me choose' feature.

I'm liking the idea of 2x 5770s if ATI is the way to go or is a single 5870 still a better idea?

 

[AMW1011]

It looks like everyone feels that dx 11 support is more important then CUDA cores for photo and video editing or is the regualre performs out weigh these features? Am I just buying into the nvidia hype? The ATI website did not provide a 'help me choose' feature.

I'm liking the idea of 2x 5770s if ATI is the way to go or is a single 5870 still a better idea?

CUDA isn't that important, but it is nice. The GTX 470 has both DX11 and CUDA.

2 5770s perform slightly behind a 5870, and a little ahead of a 5850. You also wont be able to add another in for great effect, Tri card configurations scale very poorly. Also, 2 5770s will use about the same amount of power and run about as hot as a GTX 470.

Again the GTX 470 gives the same DX10 performance, and better DX11 performance in future titles with tessellation (the main feature in DX11), ends up faster when both are compared overclocked, gives you CUDA should you want it, and costs a good deal LESS.

 

[AMW1011]

the 10.4 driver boosts performance slightly also, and the 470 loses to the 5870 in all exept 1 game.

Also, many people have OCed the 5870 to 1050+ on stock (200mhz), while the general 470 OC is aroung 780mhz, which is only 180MHZ higher and 90+ degrees.

Try again:
http://www.tweaktown.com/articles/3260/ati_catalyst_10_4_windows_7_driver_analysis/index9.html

Looking at the performance of the new drivers, we don't really see anything new. In saying that, we see the normal bug fixes which for the most part are a big enough reason to upgrade to the latest driver set.

Its a bug fixing release, which is a very impressive release actually as it fixes a ton of things, big and small.

Most 5870s come very close or hit 1Ghz without voltage modification, but can't go much higher when you crank the volts (the 5850 loves volts on the other hand, but is underclocked to begin with). I haven't seen many GTX 470's that couldn't do 800 MHz+ on stock voltage, and those that couldn't could squeeze out to 850-900 MHz when set to GTX 480 voltages.

That said, I'm going to say that they are at least even since results vary from card to card a lot. But, it is proven that the GTX 4xx series gains a lot more performance per clock, so it still gets the win.

 

[jerreece]

I'm considering an ATI 5850 or GTX 470 upgrade sometime in the future. I'm kind of on the fence. But I have to say if I had a choice between the two at equal prices, I'd swing for the GTX 470.

Considering the GTX 470 is cheaper than the ATI 5870 in the OP's case, and the performance is fairly close... I think I'd lean GTX 470.

 

[AMW1011]

Ah 5850 vs. GTX 470 is a hard one. On one hand the GTX 470 is a great card for future titles. However, for the extra money, its not really worth it NOW, since clock for clock the 5850 is 10% slower than the 5870, meaning that if it is set at 1GHz it will only be 10% slower than a GTX 470 at ~800 MHz, and might close that gap a little at extreme resolutions. If you upgrade in under 2 years, a GTX 470 might not be worth it. That said, both are terrible upgrades from your current cards, as both will only be able to match 2 GTX 260 216s at very high overclocks, 1GHz for the 5850 and 800-850 Mhz for the GTX 470 for example. If I were you jerreece, I would just wait until the next round of cards.

I would have a hard time deciding because I am impressed by Eyefinity, but the GTX 470 is just such an awesome card for someone who doesn't upgrade a lot, I would probably SLI in 1-2 years and sit on that for another 1-2 years.

 

[notty22]

Check this GTX 470 article , they o/c to 774.

So you can match any performance for less money, its a easy choice.

And if your case can't fit a 11(5870) inch card the GTX 470 is only 9
They tested stable up to 774 from 600

http://www.tweaktown.com/articles/3252/nvidia_geforce_gtx_470_overclocking_with_voltage_adjustment/index.html

 

[andreasx]

the primary purpose of this system is for video and photo editing. I want the best performance for these software packages.

I do most of my gaming on a PS3 on a 135" screen so new games are not what I'm "future proofing" for.

My current system had it's end of life upgrade to a AGP HD 3650 (from Radeon All-in-wonder) on a P4 2.8 OC to 3.2.

As modern video cards are so confusing, I really wasn't thinking about power requirements and I thought the case would help keep things cool. I went with the 1000w to support the 2 blu-ray burners, the 8 hard drives, video cards and whatever else I find I need without having to give it another thought.

The two card approach sounds like it is not a great choice based on the heat/power/performance. I gather from the feedback that going to 3 is just a waste. I figure I am more likely to buy new cards in 3 years then buy a second card in the next 1-2 years. If I go with the 470, how close does the second card have to be if I pick oa second one up in the next couple of years?

So I guess now the question is 470 vs 5850 vs 5870.

I couldn't find any comparions charts that have the 470 and 5870 on them.
The GTX2xx series are on the charts, but none of them are recommended by nvidia for video editing.

Great feedback, but I still need more help.

Thanks

 

[notty22]

The power AT LOAD is being touted as a con for gaming rig, lol ? Running cards in crossfire/sli doubles idle power, which adds up every minute the rig is on, Your powerful gaming card is only using max power a small time of the cards life. These cards all conserve power compared to last generations of video cards in 2d, and idle.

 

[AMW1011]

the primary purpose of this system is for video and photo editing. I want the best performance for these software packages.

...

If I go with the 470, how close does the second card have to be if I pick oa second one up in the next couple of years?

Both of those are not very GPU dependent at all. A single GTX 260 might be a bit much for those tasks, it is more dependent on your CPU and RAM. I would recommend a GTS 250 for CUDA work, that should be plenty of horsepower.

That said, nothing is stopping you from getting a GTX 470 and experiencing the pinnacle of gaming, which is only on the PC. My PS3 and Xbox 360 mostly go unused.

You need to decide on what you want before we go any further.

If you get a reference card, which all GTX 470s are right now, you won't have any problems picking up another in 1-2 years.

 

[andreasx]

How about Quadro FX 1800? IT is on sale right now and brings it into you price range?

http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=37707&vpn=VCQFX1800-PCIE-PB&manufacture=PNY%20Technologies%20Inc

 

[Bluescreendeath]

In DX10:
GTX 470 = 5870
GTX 470 OC >= 5870 OC

In DX11 with heavy tessellation (future titles):
GTX 470 > 5870
GTX 470 OC >> 5870 OC

Nope.

GTX470 < 5870
GTX470 >/~ 5870
GTX470 OC < 5870 OC


"Future" DX11 titles with tessellation
GTX470 ??? 5870

In AVP DX11, it showed with tessellation on, the 5870 still performed better in the majority of the settings. Only at the highest resolutions with AA at max did the GTX470 have an edge over the 5870.

If the OP wants to save money, the GTX470 would be a good choice if he doesn't game all day. otherwise, the 50-70watt increase at load will cut into the $60 savings in terms of electrical bills within a year.

 

[okini55]

HD 5870 without a doubt!

 

[AMW1011]

Nope.

GTX470 < 5870
GTX470 >/~ 5870
GTX470 OC < 5870 OC


"Future" DX11 titles with tessellation
GTX470 ??? 5870

In AVP DX11, it showed with tessellation on, the 5870 still performed better in the majority of the settings. Only at the highest resolutions with AA at max did the GTX470 have an edge over the 5870.

Yeah, so your quoting a 1% advantage now? Sorry but that is an equal playing field. Any difference 5% or under is equal, because there are too many variables to be that accurate.

When you overclock a 5870 to 1GHz, or a 150 MHz overclock, and a GTX 470 150 MHz, or 750 Mhz on the core, you think that the 5870 will be better? You realize that the GTx 4xx series gains more from overclocking right? You also realize that the 5870 can't go much over 1GHz, 1.1 GHz is usually the ceiling, while the GTX 470 may go up to 900 MHz with volt adjustment? That's a 300 MHz overclock.

Oh so a game with very little tessellation proves something? If you think this is indictive of anything, then we need to be benchmarking these cards at 800x600 resolution because it will show the clear picture. I'll stick with the benchmarks with real tessellation, where there is a bottleneck that occurs on the 5xxx series before the GTX 4xx series.

Read the article and make logical conclusions please.

 

[AMW1011]

How about Quadro FX 1800? IT is on sale right now and brings it into you price range?

http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=37707&vpn=VCQFX1800-PCIE-PB&manufacture=PNY%20Technologies%20Inc

Once again, I don't think you understand how insignificant the GPU is for video editing and Photoshop. Also the quadro series cannot play games, make sure you are okay with that. The 1800 will do pretty well, but you won't tax it with your uses.

 

[AMW1011]

If the OP wants to save money, the GTX470 would be a good choice if he doesn't game all day. otherwise, the 50-70watt increase at load will cut into the $60 savings in terms of electrical bills within a year.

Wow


So a ~50w load difference is going to make that money up? Why don't you look at the idle consumption? The GTX 470 uses only 10w more. You realize these cards are going to be idle for ~90% of their lives? You realize, that if they were used for 12 hours a day on full load that the difference in your electric bill still wouldn't equate to $60 in savings in a year? You realize he MAY pay $10 more a year?

 

[Bluescreendeath]

Yeah, so your quoting a 1% advantage now? Sorry but that is an equal playing field. Any difference 5% or under is equal, because there are too many variables to be that accurate.
When you overclock a 5870 to 1GHz, or a 150 MHz overclock, and a GTX 470 150 MHz, or 750 Mhz on the core, you think that the 5870 will be better? You realize that the GTx 4xx series gains more from overclocking right? You also realize that the 5870 can't go much over 1GHz, 1.1 GHz is usually the ceiling, while the GTX 470 may go up to 900 MHz with volt adjustment? That's a 300 MHz overclock.
Oh so a game with very little tessellation proves something? If you think this is indictive of anything, then we need to be benchmarking these cards at 800x600 resolution because it will show the clear picture. I'll stick the the benchmarks with real tessellation, where there is a bottleneck that occurs on the 5xxx series before the GTX 4xx series.
Read the article and make logical conclusions please.

Equal playing field? I suggest you look at some more benchmarks.

The GTX470 is faster or roughly equal to the 5870 in Nvidia favoring games perhaps. Without taking into account Nvidia or ATI favoring games, the 5870 is roughly 10-15% better than the GTX470. In the game where more fps matters, namely Crysis, the 5870 is faster by a noticeable margin.

As for overclocking the GTX470 - how hot do you think it's going to get with a major overclock? Do you know how loud it's gonna be?
86 decibels for an OCed GTX470. That is roughly 24 db louder than a 5870.

Normal Conversation = 60 dB
Busy Street Traffic = 70 dB
Vacuum Cleaner = 80 dB

An OCed GTX470 is louder than a vacuum cleaner. Epic fail.

 

[Bluescreendeath]

Wow
So a ~50w load difference is going to make that money up? Why don't you look at the idle consumption? The GTX 470 uses only 10w more. You realize these cards are going to be idle for ~90% of their lives? You realize, that if they were used for 12 hours a day on full load that the difference in your electric bill still wouldn't equate to $60 in savings in a year? You realize he MAY pay $10 more a year?
http://images.anandtech.com/graphs/nvidiageforcegtx480launch_032610115215/22208.png
http://images.anandtech.com/graphs/nvidiageforcegtx480launch_032610115215/22204.png

Idle:
A stock GTX470 uses ~20 more watts than the 4870. An OCed GTX470 uses 63 more watts.

Load:
At stock and OCed, the GTX470 uses ~70 more watts than the 5870.

Now let's take a look at power vs electrical consumption vs bills.

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/geforce-radeon-power,2122-4.html


Comparing an ATI 2900 to an ATI 4850.
Radeon HD 2900 = 78 watts idle
Radeon HD 4850 = 58 watts idle

2900 = 2D operation, 8hrs/365 & 24hrs/365 = $46 & $137
4850 = 2D operation, 8hrs/365 & 24hrs/365 = $34 & $102

For a difference of 20 watts, it is about $12 more to keep it on 8 hrs or ~$35 more to keep it on 24/7.

For a difference of 60 watts (OCed GTX470), that'll be $36 more and ~$108 more respectively for 8hrs and 24hrs idle.

For load, let's compare the ATI 4850 and ATI 3650.

4850 = 133watts load
3650 = 63watts load

4850 = 3D operation, 8hrs/365 = $78
3650 = 3D operation, 8hrs/365 = $37

For a difference of 70watts at load, if you do 3D operations for 8hrs/365, it will cost you $41 more.



Now let's put that together. Assume you keep your computer on for 16hrs a day, and game for 4 hours a day.

For a stock GTX470 vs 5870
It will cost 12*2 + 20.5 = $44.50 more in electrical bills

For an OCed GTX470 vs 5870
It will cost 36*2 + 20.5 = $92.50 more in electrical bills



So buying a GTX470 instead of a 5870 will cost you an average of $44.50 to $92.50 more in terms of electrical bills. Add in the fact that the GTX470 is 10 dB louder @ stock and ~20 dB louder @ load than the 5870, and it shows that the $60 "savings" isn't worth it in the long run if you care about money and performance.

The GTX470 is only worth it if you're an Nvidia fan or need Nvidia features such as physX.

 

[notty22]

Sorry your power numbers are wacked.
Heres a online calculator http://michaelbluejay.com/electricity/howmuch.html
avg power cost for USA
60 watts or the difference at load
60 watts X 4 hours a day X 365=1.11 a month or 13.00 dollar a year.
And thats 1/4 of every day for a year. Basically insignificant.

I'll say it again, this power issue is laughable. To me its like two high performance cars ,finishing a race. And the loser jumping out and screaming how he gets better gas mileage.

 

[Bluescreendeath]

Sorry your power numbers are wacked.
Heres a online calculator http://michaelbluejay.com/electricity/howmuch.html
avg power cost for USA
60 watts or the difference at load
60 watts X 4 hours a day X 365=1.11 a month or 13.00 dollar a year.
And thats 1/4 of every day for a year. Basically insignificant.
http://i482.photobucket.com/albums/rr185/notty222/powera.png

I'll say it again, this power issue is laughable. To me its like two high performance cars ,finishing a race. And the loser jumping out and screaming how he gets better gas mileage. http://img.tomshardware.com/forum/uk/icones/smilies/bounce.gif

1. "The power cost was estimated at 20 cents per kilowatt-hour (kWh)."

2. 4 hours a day is not 1/4 of a day. 4 hours a day is 1/6 of a day. And who here only uses a computer for 4 hours a day?

3. It's not insignificant if you use your computer a lot.


Let's say this is an OCed GTX470:

All I'm saying that even though the GTX470 is $60 less than a 5870, it is offset by higher power bills in the long run if you use your computer a lot. (if you plan to OC it)