• Happy holidays, folks! Thanks to each and every one of you for being part of the Tom's Hardware community!

30-second time shift?

Page 3 - Seeking answers? Join the Tom's Hardware community: where nearly two million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.
Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

On 03 Jun 2004 in alt.cellular.verizon, Peter Pan wrote:

> I heard they weren't putting anything into upper minn and mich
> since
> Canada's buying them and they won't be states and part of verizon
> anymore..

I thought that was North Dakota? Or whatever they changed their name to?

--
Joe Makowiec can be reached at:
http://makowiec.org/contact/?Joe
 
Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

Some time around Thu, 03 Jun 2004 19:24:06 GMT (give or take a month), someone who says they are
named GBSmith <frodo@ameritech.net> fired up the tubes on the teletype and rambled on about:

>Thank you all for your replies. Again, I simply asked if anyone had
>heard similar rumors. I'll take the majority of replies to suggest a
>simple, "no."

So I take it your "serious" rumor was that you were standing in WalMart and the guy who was in line
in front of you who was talking to someone else said that he heard something about a take over of
Verizon?

You did say "Serious" rumor, a serious rumor would be something from at least one creditable source.



-W
 
Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

"Proconsul" <nospam@nospam.org> wrote in message news:<GCGvc.43702$mm1.32684@fed1read06>...

> I will repeat that I find that they are expanding all over the country and
> remain the single carrier with the best coverage nationwide. There are
> certainly some areas where other carriers are also expanding and competing,
> but no one can begin to match the coverage Verizon has almost everywhere.
> Please advise if you can provide some specifics - we are all interested
> enough to read and post in this venue and most of us welcome the discussion.

One example is Nevada. VZW's coverage on cellular B pales compared to
WWCA's coverage on cellular A. In ND and SD, WWCA also beats VZW in
terms of coverage.

> I will repeat the point once again that seems to escape many of the
> naysayers - it makes little economic sense to "expand" in areas where there
> are no people. The uninhabited wilderness in Oregon is a good example -
> more treehuggers have to buy the service if they expect more towers to to
> up. Similarly, the empty desert in Arizona where no one lives has spotty
> service - nobody there to buy and pay for the service. Even in those
> sparsely populated areas, Verizon service DOES exist along the major interst
> ate highways. Somebody has to pay for the service - Economics 101....!

That's why VZW has endless holes created by Commnet filling in the
coverage gaps that VZW and its predecessors left uncovered. See the
Swiss cheese collection on the cellular B-side in the American west:
http://people.ku.edu/~cinema/wireless/Natl_Cell_B.html

WWCA on the other hand has extremely few coverage holes subsequently
claimed by Commnet or others, indicating that their base coverage was
better to begin with:
http://people.ku.edu/~cinema/wireless/Natl_Cell_A.html

> I seriously doubt that you can back up that assertion with facts. In point
> of fact, Verizon is buying up carriers all over the country and expanding
> their network at a great rate. I'd like to know who else is "growing
> faster" - and, again, those of us who participate in this venue are
> interested in that discussion.....

In calendar year 2003, T-Mobile added 3.212 M customers on top of the
9.916 M they had at the end of 2002. That's an increase of 32.4%.

In the same time period, NEXTEL added 2.270 M customers on top of the
10.612 M they had at the end of 2002. That's an increase of 21.4%.

VZW added 5.031 M customers on top of the 32.491 M they had at the end
of 2002. That's an increase of 15.5%.

Therefore, other carriers do grow faster than VZW.

Don't get me wrong, I like VZW and I'm pretty happy with the service
they provide, but let's not twist the facts in order to make a
non-existing point.
 
Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

"XFF" <xff@austin.rr.com> wrote in message
news:298d9cbf.0406040854.73425e64@posting.google.com...
| "Proconsul" <nospam@nospam.org> wrote in message
news:<GCGvc.43702$mm1.32684@fed1read06>...
|
| > I will repeat that I find that they are expanding all over the country
and
| > remain the single carrier with the best coverage nationwide. There are
| > certainly some areas where other carriers are also expanding and
competing,
| > but no one can begin to match the coverage Verizon has almost
everywhere.
| > Please advise if you can provide some specifics - we are all interested
| > enough to read and post in this venue and most of us welcome the
discussion.
|
| One example is Nevada. VZW's coverage on cellular B pales compared to
| WWCA's coverage on cellular A. In ND and SD, WWCA also beats VZW in
| terms of coverage.

Point taken - you might take note of the fact that with t he exception of
one or two metro areas, those places are relatively
uninhabited....especially ND and SD. ND & SD are especially scenic, but the
Interstates are covered. Take Las Vegas out of Nevada, where Verizon is
"king", and it's uninhabited in the main as well. Having driven through
Nevada many, manyu times, I can report that coverage along the I-15 and I-70
is just fine. The rattlesnakes and geckos in the rest of the state don't use
cell phones.....:)

| > I will repeat the point once again that seems to escape many of the
| > naysayers - it makes little economic sense to "expand" in areas where
there
| > are no people. The uninhabited wilderness in Oregon is a good example -
| > more treehuggers have to buy the service if they expect more towers to
to
| > up. Similarly, the empty desert in Arizona where no one lives has spotty
| > service - nobody there to buy and pay for the service. Even in those
| > sparsely populated areas, Verizon service DOES exist along the major
interst
| > ate highways. Somebody has to pay for the service - Economics 101....!
|
| That's why VZW has endless holes created by Commnet filling in the
| coverage gaps that VZW and its predecessors left uncovered. See the
| Swiss cheese collection on the cellular B-side in the American west:
| http://people.ku.edu/~cinema/wireless/Natl_Cell_B.html

But the holes ARE covered - I drive throughout the West and am virtually
always, with rare exceptions, on the Extended Network. You can't ignore the
Extended Network since it IS coverage and it IS provided.....

| WWCA on the other hand has extremely few coverage holes subsequently
| claimed by Commnet or others, indicating that their base coverage was
| better to begin with:
| http://people.ku.edu/~cinema/wireless/Natl_Cell_A.html

Reviewing your maps indicates that Verizon's B-side coverage overlaps WWCA's
A-side almost everywhere - I'm sure those few exceptions you cite are valid,
but so what?

| > I seriously doubt that you can back up that assertion with facts. In
point
| > of fact, Verizon is buying up carriers all over the country and
expanding
| > their network at a great rate. I'd like to know who else is "growing
| > faster" - and, again, those of us who participate in this venue are
| > interested in that discussion.....
|
| In calendar year 2003, T-Mobile added 3.212 M customers on top of the
| 9.916 M they had at the end of 2002. That's an increase of 32.4%.

Takes a lot fewer "gains" to generate a higher percentage. Even with gains,
T-Mobil has less than one third of Verizon's customer base. Phony numbers...

| In the same time period, NEXTEL added 2.270 M customers on top of the
| 10.612 M they had at the end of 2002. That's an increase of 21.4%.

And they too have less than one third of Verizon's customer base - for the
same reason....lack of coverage except in localized areas....

| VZW added 5.031 M customers on top of the 32.491 M they had at the end
| of 2002. That's an increase of 15.5%.

Most came from other carriers that provide less coverage and poorer
service - Verizon's "lead" is expanding for the obvious reasons...

| Therefore, other carriers do grow faster than VZW.

I don't agree - those "percentages" are fallacious....for obvious
reasons......

| Don't get me wrong, I like VZW and I'm pretty happy with the service
| they provide, but let's not twist the facts in order to make a
| non-existing point.

I'm not the one twisting facts - and the issue remains
undisputed.....Verizon is the largest carrier that provides the best
service....that's why they have the largest customer base that is
expanding.....!

PC
 
Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

"XFF" <xff@austin.rr.com> wrote in message
news:298d9cbf.0406040854.73425e64@posting.google.com...
| > I seriously doubt that you can back up that assertion with facts. In
point
| > of fact, Verizon is buying up carriers all over the country and
expanding
| > their network at a great rate. I'd like to know who else is "growing
| > faster" - and, again, those of us who participate in this venue are
| > interested in that discussion.....
|
| In calendar year 2003, T-Mobile added 3.212 M customers on top of the
| 9.916 M they had at the end of 2002. That's an increase of 32.4%.
|
| In the same time period, NEXTEL added 2.270 M customers on top of the
| 10.612 M they had at the end of 2002. That's an increase of 21.4%.
|
| VZW added 5.031 M customers on top of the 32.491 M they had at the end
| of 2002. That's an increase of 15.5%.
|
| Therefore, other carriers do grow faster than VZW.

Untrue - I neglected to mention that Verizon gained TWICE as many new
customers as either of your examples and as many as they gained put
together. Those are the figures that matters, as opposed to percentage
change of customer base which is skewed toward those who have smaller bases
and gained fewer new customers....

Other carriers are not growing faster than Verizon....

PC
 
Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

In article <298d9cbf.0406040854.73425e64@posting.google.com>,
xff@austin.rr.com says...
> That's why VZW has endless holes created by Commnet filling in the
> coverage gaps that VZW and its predecessors left uncovered. See the
> Swiss cheese collection on the cellular B-side in the American west:
> http://people.ku.edu/~cinema/wireless/Natl_Cell_B.html
>
> WWCA on the other hand has extremely few coverage holes subsequently
> claimed by Commnet or others, indicating that their base coverage was
> better to begin with:
> http://people.ku.edu/~cinema/wireless/Natl_Cell_A.html

I'm not sure what the source is for the maps XFF posted, but they are
not coverage maps. The maps show every bit of the Western states
covered by some carrier or other, when that is not actually the case.
Compare the coverage of Verizon in SW North Dakota, for example, on its
web site, with the solid red on the Natl_Cell_B map above.

--
Michael D. Sullivan
Bethesda, MD, USA
Delete nospam from my address and it won't work.
 
Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

Michael D. Sullivan <nospam@camsul.com> wrote in message news:<MPG.1b2aea08c9101e7f9897b4@news.bellatlantic.net>...

> In article <298d9cbf.0406040854.73425e64@posting.google.com>, xff@austin.rr.com says...

> > That's why VZW has endless holes created by Commnet filling in the
> > coverage gaps that VZW and its predecessors left uncovered. See the
> > Swiss cheese collection on the cellular B-side in the American west:
> > http://people.ku.edu/~cinema/wireless/Natl_Cell_B.html
> >
> > WWCA on the other hand has extremely few coverage holes subsequently
> > claimed by Commnet or others, indicating that their base coverage was
> > better to begin with:
> > http://people.ku.edu/~cinema/wireless/Natl_Cell_A.html
>
> I'm not sure what the source is for the maps XFF posted, but they are
> not coverage maps. The maps show every bit of the Western states
> covered by some carrier or other, when that is not actually the case.
> Compare the coverage of Verizon in SW North Dakota, for example, on its
> web site, with the solid red on the Natl_Cell_B map above.

You're absolutely correct, those are license maps, not coverage maps.
My point was not to show that every square inch of the United States
is covered, but that VZW has lost licensed service areas (not coverage
areas) to Commnet Wireless by not providing any coverage. In a
nutshell, cellular service areas are originally licensed to a provider
who has 5 years to establish coverage throughout the licensed service
area. If after those initial 5 years (phase 1) the licensed provider
has failed to establish coverage throughout the service area, another
provider can claim this unserved area by providing coverage where non
existed before (phase 2).

WWCA has lost very little licensed service areas during phase 2
whereas VZW (or its predecessors) have lost dozens of service areas to
Commnet Wireless by failing to provide coverage during phase 1.

This topic has been explained in great detail before, so if you're
interested in it simply do a Google search for "CGSA phase 1 phase 2
unserved area" and you should find everything you ever wanted to know.
 
Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

"Proconsul" <nospam@nospam.org> wrote in message news:<ga2wc.47684$mm1.44247@fed1read06>...

> "XFF" <xff@austin.rr.com> wrote in message news:298d9cbf.0406040854.73425e64@posting.google.com...

> | > I seriously doubt that you can back up that assertion with facts. In point
> | > of fact, Verizon is buying up carriers all over the country and expanding
> | > their network at a great rate. I'd like to know who else is "growing
> | > faster" - and, again, those of us who participate in this venue are
> | > interested in that discussion.....
> |
> | In calendar year 2003, T-Mobile added 3.212 M customers on top of the
> | 9.916 M they had at the end of 2002. That's an increase of 32.4%.
> |
> | In the same time period, NEXTEL added 2.270 M customers on top of the
> | 10.612 M they had at the end of 2002. That's an increase of 21.4%.
> |
> | VZW added 5.031 M customers on top of the 32.491 M they had at the end
> | of 2002. That's an increase of 15.5%.
> |
> | Therefore, other carriers do grow faster than VZW.
>
> Untrue - I neglected to mention that Verizon gained TWICE as many new
> customers as either of your examples and as many as they gained put
> together. Those are the figures that matters, as opposed to percentage
> change of customer base which is skewed toward those who have smaller bases
> and gained fewer new customers....
>
> Other carriers are not growing faster than Verizon....

It's not untrue. It's simply a different point of view. Growth can
be measured either in absolute or relative terms. In absolute terms
VZW is the fastest growing provider, in relative terms it is not.
 
Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

"XFF" <xff@austin.rr.com> wrote in message
news:298d9cbf.0406051920.70c94e8e@posting.google.com...
| "Proconsul" <nospam@nospam.org> wrote in message
news:<ga2wc.47684$mm1.44247@fed1read06>...
|| > Untrue - I neglected to mention that Verizon gained TWICE as many new
| > customers as either of your examples and as many as they gained put
| > together. Those are the figures that matters, as opposed to percentage
| > change of customer base which is skewed toward those who have smaller
bases
| > and gained fewer new customers....
| >
| > Other carriers are not growing faster than Verizon....
|
| It's not untrue. It's simply a different point of view. Growth can
| be measured either in absolute or relative terms. In absolute terms
| VZW is the fastest growing provider, in relative terms it is not.

Point granted - however, "absolute" terms are, IMO, a far better indicator
than "relative" terms insofar as the way they were presented in this
thread....:)

Thanks for the rational discussion....:)

PC
 
Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

Roger Binns wrote:

> Giambi wrote:
>
>>Except, of covrse, for the fact that Verizon Wireless is actvally based
>>("headqvartered" if yov prefer) in Bedminster, NJ.
>
>
> Yov are right, and I was very wrong. I have been trying to find the
> DC connection as I have heard of other stvff they chose to roll ovt in
> DC first. The FCC is definitely headqvartered in DC. There is this abovt
> Verizon and DC:
>
> http://www22.verizon.com/abovt/commvnity/dc/abovt_dc/history.html
>
> Bell Atlantic was in NY and GTE in Conneticvt moving to Texas:
>
> http://investor.verizon.com/profile/history/history_001.html
>
> Looking into the history of all the companies that became Verizon/Verizon
> Wireless, I can't find a single one with a connection to DC.
>
> The only thing I did find is vnion protests:
>
> http://www.cwa-vnion.org/Verizon/photos/030828/
>
> Anyone have any idea what is special abovt DC to VZW?
>
> Roger
>
>
Can't tell yov for svre abovt VZW being in DC, bvt I work for another
telecom now based in the DC area (formerlly right in DC) and the entire
reason for ovr being based there is becavse that is where the FCC is
located--since the natvre of the telecom bvsiness is so heavily
regvlated. Bvt then again, ovr company was fovnded in the 1960s when it
was even more regvlated.

Steve