[SOLVED] 4x8gb SR vs. 2x16gb DR for Zen 3 CPU (5900x) + MOBO limitations?!

[VulcanXIV]

Sorry guys, I know this question is everywhere already. I have specific issues that are further down the line than just deciding what rank total my RAMs are or what timings.

My true goals are simple: Upgrading to Ryzen 5900x and also upgrading RAM capacity to 32gb. ESSENTIALLY.

Issue: I am a noob who has had custom PC's for nearly 10 years and can discuss terminology, but I never really was able be a savvy master race overclocker or enthusiast. Secondly, I am an idiot who wants to make this a monster PC and am willing to dunk my wallet in acid to prove it this time around.

Here is my core question though...It's been exactly a year since this debate started thanks to GN, but after those initial questions, it kind of just died out without confirming resolutely what the best case scenario would be. With that in mind, based on my intended build, would anyone be able to tell me what is my best RAM configuration would be? My current motherboard is the Gigabyte X570 Aorus Elite Wifi...which is daisy chain topology of course. Supposedly this means my optimum setup would be 2x16 RAMS with the tightest timings possible, 3600Mhz, and naturally Dual-Ranked so that I can achieve the total of 4 rank that Zen 3 so highly craves...That is what my scouring of the internet has surmised. May anyone please confirm? I got REALLY sold on the unfinished idea that tests indicated that 4x8 Single Ranks would be the best performance boost for Zen 3, but I'm running into arguments such as:

1. It's harder on memory controller
2. It introduces more variables and thus failure in boosting or optimizing the ram
3. My MOBO is Daisy-chain topology, which supposedly wants 2x16 despite having 4 slots. I haven't really figured out the dimm argument regarding this.

Those are some of the problems I'm having. I WANT to select either RAM configuration, but GamersNexus never did that followup video regarding this. Other tuber's who talked about it say definitely that it seems 4x8 single ranks is the best compared to 2x16 dual ranks. Without that definitive statement, which accounts for Motherboard RAM topologies and extensive testing that defines the combination of Ranks vs Stick count for Zen 3, I'm basically at a loss.

Responses I don't appreciate:

1. "2x16 Dual ranks are best because of upgrade potential to 64 down the line." --- How is that even a consideration if that would basically mean rebuying a kit of 4? Which would also bump the rank total to 8? It makes no sense.
2. "The performance gains are minimal, don't worry about it." --- I want to dunk my wallet in acid, for one. Secondly, I'm interested in extracting what I can from Star Citizen when the going gets rough. These tiny percentages matter for that kind of game, and if I wanted to be value oriented, I would just stay with my current rig and wait for an MSRP aftermarket 3080 (never happening, of course. 2 years probably).

What do you guys think? My new CPU and RAM selection has already hit $1k, so it would suck if I got something that I didn't fully understand or because I listened to someone who said "it's fine" essentially. I want to know the fine details of why either configuration would be 100% better than the other, based on motherboard/cpu intricacies.

 

[CountMike]

Sorry guys, I know this question is everywhere already. I have specific issues that are further down the line than just deciding what rank total my RAMs are or what timings.

My true goals are simple: Upgrading to Ryzen 5900x and also upgrading RAM capacity to 32gb. ESSENTIALLY.

Issue: I am a noob who has had custom PC's for nearly 10 years and can discuss terminology, but I never really was able be a savvy master race overclocker or enthusiast. Secondly, I am an idiot who wants to make this a monster PC and am willing to dunk my wallet in acid to prove it this time around.

Here is my core question though...It's been exactly a year since this debate started thanks to GN, but after those initial questions, it kind of just died out without confirming resolutely what the best case scenario would be. With that in mind, based on my intended build, would anyone be able to tell me what is my best RAM configuration would be? My current motherboard is the Gigabyte X570 Aorus Elite Wifi...which is daisy chain topology of course. Supposedly this means my optimum setup would be 2x16 RAMS with the tightest timings possible, 3600Mhz, and naturally Dual-Ranked so that I can achieve the total of 4 rank that Zen 3 so highly craves...That is what my scouring of the internet has surmised. May anyone please confirm? I got REALLY sold on the unfinished idea that tests indicated that 4x8 Single Ranks would be the best performance boost for Zen 3, but I'm running into arguments such as:

1. It's harder on memory controller
2. It introduces more variables and thus failure in boosting or optimizing the ram
3. My MOBO is Daisy-chain topology, which supposedly wants 2x16 despite having 4 slots. I haven't really figured out the dimm argument regarding this.

Those are some of the problems I'm having. I WANT to select either RAM configuration, but GamersNexus never did that followup video regarding this. Other tuber's who talked about it say definitely that it seems 4x8 single ranks is the best compared to 2x16 dual ranks. Without that definitive statement, which accounts for Motherboard RAM topologies and extensive testing that defines the combination of Ranks vs Stick count for Zen 3, I'm basically at a loss.

Responses I don't appreciate:

1. "2x16 Dual ranks are best because of upgrade potential to 64 down the line." --- How is that even a consideration if that would basically mean rebuying a kit of 4? Which would also bump the rank total to 8? It makes no sense.
2. "The performance gains are minimal, don't worry about it." --- I want to dunk my wallet in acid, for one. Secondly, I'm interested in extracting what I can from Star Citizen when the going gets rough. These tiny percentages matter for that kind of game, and if I wanted to be value oriented, I would just stay with my current rig and wait for an MSRP aftermarket 3080 (never happening, of course. 2 years probably).

What do you guys think? My new CPU and RAM selection has already hit $1k, so it would suck if I got something that I didn't fully understand or because I listened to someone who said "it's fine" essentially. I want to know the fine details of why either configuration would be 100% better than the other, based on motherboard/cpu intricacies.

You might be mixing "Rank" and "Channel". Rank is architecture of particular RAM and Channel is number of RAM sticks in same IMC channel.
If you have two paired RAM sticks in slots that address same IMC channel it works as Dual Channel no matter if RAM is single or dual rank.
Earlier Ryzen had some difficulties with higher RAM frequencies when both IMC channels were used but 5000 series on b550/x570 chipset MBs don't have that problem and purportedly even work better with it.

 

[Bob.B]

Sorry guys, I know this question is everywhere already. I have specific issues that are further down the line than just deciding what rank total my RAMs are or what timings.

My true goals are simple: Upgrading to Ryzen 5900x and also upgrading RAM capacity to 32gb. ESSENTIALLY.

Issue: I am a noob who has had custom PC's for nearly 10 years and can discuss terminology, but I never really was able be a savvy master race overclocker or enthusiast. Secondly, I am an idiot who wants to make this a monster PC and am willing to dunk my wallet in acid to prove it this time around.

Here is my core question though...It's been exactly a year since this debate started thanks to GN, but after those initial questions, it kind of just died out without confirming resolutely what the best case scenario would be. With that in mind, based on my intended build, would anyone be able to tell me what is my best RAM configuration would be? My current motherboard is the Gigabyte X570 Aorus Elite Wifi...which is daisy chain topology of course. Supposedly this means my optimum setup would be 2x16 RAMS with the tightest timings possible, 3600Mhz, and naturally Dual-Ranked so that I can achieve the total of 4 rank that Zen 3 so highly craves...That is what my scouring of the internet has surmised. May anyone please confirm? I got REALLY sold on the unfinished idea that tests indicated that 4x8 Single Ranks would be the best performance boost for Zen 3, but I'm running into arguments such as:

1. It's harder on memory controller
2. It introduces more variables and thus failure in boosting or optimizing the ram
3. My MOBO is Daisy-chain topology, which supposedly wants 2x16 despite having 4 slots. I haven't really figured out the dimm argument regarding this.

Those are some of the problems I'm having. I WANT to select either RAM configuration, but GamersNexus never did that followup video regarding this. Other tuber's who talked about it say definitely that it seems 4x8 single ranks is the best compared to 2x16 dual ranks. Without that definitive statement, which accounts for Motherboard RAM topologies and extensive testing that defines the combination of Ranks vs Stick count for Zen 3, I'm basically at a loss.

Responses I don't appreciate:

1. "2x16 Dual ranks are best because of upgrade potential to 64 down the line." --- How is that even a consideration if that would basically mean rebuying a kit of 4? Which would also bump the rank total to 8? It makes no sense.
2. "The performance gains are minimal, don't worry about it." --- I want to dunk my wallet in acid, for one. Secondly, I'm interested in extracting what I can from Star Citizen when the going gets rough. These tiny percentages matter for that kind of game, and if I wanted to be value oriented, I would just stay with my current rig and wait for an MSRP aftermarket 3080 (never happening, of course. 2 years probably).

What do you guys think? My new CPU and RAM selection has already hit $1k, so it would suck if I got something that I didn't fully understand or because I listened to someone who said "it's fine" essentially. I want to know the fine details of why either configuration would be 100% better than the other, based on motherboard/cpu intricacies.

Looking for that last drop of blood?

Run sr vs dr ram through google.
Don't believe any of it they all LIE!
Open up your wallet and get a kit of each.
Do your own testing to see which kit gives you that last drop.

 

[VulcanXIV]

You might be mixing "Rank" and "Channel". Rank is architecture of particular RAM and Channel is number of RAM sticks in same IMC channel.
If you have two paired RAM sticks in slots that address same IMC channel it works as Dual Channel no matter if RAM is single or dual rank.
Earlier Ryzen had some difficulties with higher RAM frequencies when both IMC channels were used but 5000 series on b550/x570 chipset MBs don't have that problem and purportedly even work better with it.

Yes sorry for not mentioning that. I WANT to prefer 4x8 for some reason, and because I'm so focused on the reasons that are telling me NOT to do it, I ended up talking more about what is pushing me toward 2x16gb than anything.

Yes, one of the reasons 4x8 makes sense to me is because channels are a thing, and dual channels can be utilized if I use a 4x8 format, all the while keeping ranks to o maximum of 4. However I must definitely say that even if that's the case, I wonder why people threw a tree in my racetrack by mentioning the Daisy Chain Topology issue without even telling me what was the tested conclusion of this problem. It's been exactly a year after all. All you see if people argue out the basics in the first month, and then it's a whole year of silence as everyone scrambles to find the conclusion and then MAYBE mention it somewhere that gets lost in time.

Looking for that last drop of blood?

Run sr vs dr ram through google.
Don't believe any of it they all LIE!
Open up your wallet and get a kit of each.
Do your own testing to see which kit gives you that last drop.

Amazing. How could I not think of that? Here I am, a perfectly grown adult, knowingly asking things that require extensive research to know, CLEARLY seeing that despite it being a year since this issue came up only the people who actually tested it themselves will ever know what all the conflicting information leads to. Sure, I may not be experienced in overclocking at all, but If I'm going to spend this much money I might as well DO IT MYSELF and find out.

Fascinating, that's kind of eye opening. I will consider this option. Hell I already have 2 double pairs of old ram, what would be the issue with adding 2 more double pairs? I'll sell them later. Ok Ok I'm really liking this new line of thought. I'm going to put my money where my mouth is, then.

Now, just one last thing...I don't want to buy TWO options of RAM and realize that both suck because I'm inexperienced and some unknown or unconsidered factor is inhibiting my results in my testing For example, my current problem is figuring out whether 4x8 performance beats out the daisy chain topology issue, or whether 2x16 literally solves every problem people say you would have. What if I'm missing something though such as X570 boards being crap? Buildzoid has a video saying x570 they outright hurt your ability to overclock. Oh well.

I will now open up my wallet to both options of Trident Z Neo's and or Trident Z Royals. I'll decide at the last minute which ones I want to go with when I then buy the two kits of 4x8 and 2x16 together. Until I make that decision at the end of today, I would like to figure out if I am missing any potential in my desired build or if I am not accounting for something. I hope to find out more through this thread.

 

[Dan2D]

Hardware Unboxed has a video on 4x8 vs 2x16 on ryzen 5000. Youtube, then search "Ryzen 5000 DDR4 Memory Performance, XMP vs Manual Timings, Single vs Dual Rank" - don't know if I can insert links here...
If you've done your own trial, I'd be interested. Just got a kit of Trident Z F4-3600C17D-32GTZR 2x16 for 5600x on MSI b550 gaming edge wifi.