7900GS on Crysis

[caamsa]

LOL now that changes everything. Yes the X1950pro would be great....my bad......thought he already had one

I think if he can manage a few more bucks the 3850 would be nice. It is going for around 170 bucks.

 

[pauldh]

Yeah, 3850 would be sweet. Anand's revie shows it's about 100% faster on average than a 7950GT and despite half the memory the lead grows at higher res. Seeing the once mighty X1950XTX struggling vs. a $179 card is pretty amazing site. http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3151&p=9

 

[caamsa]

Yeah, 3850 would be sweet. Anand's revie shows it's about 100% faster on average than a 7950GT and despite half the memory the lead grows at higher res. Seeing the once mighty X1950XTX struggling vs. a $179 card is pretty amazing site. http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3151&p=9

Hey are you picking on my 7950GT......

Yea there is always some thing better just around the corner. I paid $270.00 for my 7950GT....nice card, runs cool, it is quiet as can be, saves power and does decent in games. I can play the crysis demo at 1280X1024 with settings on high and it runs fairly well. Just wish I had waited a little longer and got the X1950XT but I wanted a card and the 1950XT cards were not out yet......O well.....

 

[horendus]

I was in the same position 4 months ago.

I choose the 512MB X1950PRO and im glad i did

I run COD 4 @ 1680x1050 on high detail and get between 30 - 60 frames. (oc of 600/1400 on passive cooler)

I was expecting id be pushing it trying to get it to run at medium lol and with 4xAA it drops me down to 25 - 45 frames so i disabled that.

Oblivion runs better on ATi cards of the generation is question (x1900 / 7900) and has a MUCH better MINIMUM frame rate outdoors making ATi cards of that era overall beter for that game.


I havnt tried crysis yet, on purpose.
I dont want to play it on any less than high detail. Ill wait to theres a good 300 card that will do this for me.

BTW play call of duty 4....u wont regret it. The graphics on a big screen......lets just say they some talented 3D modelers working for activision....


X2 4200@2.5
2gig RAM

 

[pauldh]

8600GTS spanking the 7900GS???? where do you see that? They are pretty even, just about dead even......and the X1950 pro will not be all that much better.......

Right in the links I provided, did you look at them?

The crysis link I posted shows the 8600GTS averaging 34.8 vs 25 fps for the 7900GS. That makes it 39% faster, which is far from dead even.
http://www.legionhardware.com/document.php?id=698&p=2

Move onto Oblivion, it's 30.5 fps for a factory OC'ed 8600GTS vs 13.8 for a 7900GS, which is a 121% lead for the 8600GTS OC.
http://www.firingsquad.com/hardware/nvidia_geforce_8600_gts_preview/page9.asp

UT3, 44.7 fps for the 8600GTS, vs 20 fps for the 7900GS, making for a 123% lead for the 8600GTS.
http://www.legionhardware.com/document.php?id=693&p=5

I don't have a Call of Duty direct comparison, but we can see the 8600GTS matches the X1950 pro in that one, http://www.firingsquad.com/hardware/amd_rv670_performance_preview/page12.asp ,which in turn has a 62 % lead on a 7900GT from the same site in this review: http://www.firingsquad.com/hardware/call_of_duty_4_demo_performance/page3.asp


Anyway, these links were listed above, but it's pretty clear that in these new titles, the 7900GS is way behind the X1950 pro and 8600GTS. Simply no contest and a massive OC wouldn't change a thing either to erase 39%, 121%, 123%, and 62% sized leads. Anyway, I've said it long ago, but people need to rethink where the 7900GS and 7900GT actually stack up now, they are not dead even, not even OC'ed. They are equal in older games, keep up in some new games (especially without fsaa), but get crushed in many new games by the X1950 pro and 8600GTS. Shoot, there IQ (AF and texture shimmering at default driver settings) and feature set(no fsaa+HDR many games) is worse too.

Anyway IMO X1950pro >= 8600GTS > 7900GS and anyone buying a 7900GS for about the same prices as these is getting ripped off.

 

[pauldh]

Hey are you picking on my 7950GT......

Nope, you can't always help changing situations(games, drivers) and if it was good for the price when you bought it, and served you well, you did well buying it. But way back when Oblivion and NFS:Carbon came out we did discuss the trend of the X19xx architecture really shining and how that it may very well be a sign of things to come. (Grape, Cleeve, GW, etc. would remember these talks here).

But, Like I said, I bought two 7900GS's at great prices(for testing and builds) and had an evga 7800GT CO in my main gaming rig for a short while (until seeing it blew at Oblivion so I quickly moved it to a spare rig and bought a new card). I can tell ya, having spent alot of time in Oblivion on a 6800U, 7800GT, X1800XT, X1950XT, and 8800GTS, the jump from 7800GT to X1800XT was huge. Much much bigger than from 6800U to 7800GT.

Anyway, before calling it a night I wanted to add this for other people reading this....... (currently at Newegg) With X1950 pro at $105 AR, 8600GTS $115 AR, HD2600XT $85 AR, And 7900GS $100 AR, the 7900GS is my last choice of the 4 offering the worst bang for the buck for the games mentioned in the OP. And yeah, if you can swing an HD3850, 3870, 8800GT, then go for it.

 

[caamsa]

Nope, you can't always help changing situations(games, drivers) and if it was good for the price when you bought it, and served you well, you did well buying it. But way back when Oblivion and NFS:Carbon came out we did discuss the trend of the X19xx architecture really shining and how that it may very well be a sign of things to come. (Grape, Cleeve, GW, etc. would remember these talks here).

But, Like I said, I bought two 7900GS's at great prices(for testing and builds) and had an evga 7800GT CO in my main gaming rig for a short while (until seeing it blew at Oblivion so I quickly moved it to a spare rig and bought a new card). I can tell ya, having spent alot of time in Oblivion on a 6800U, 7800GT, X1800XT, X1950XT, and 8800GTS, the jump from 7800GT to X1800XT was huge. Much much bigger than from 6800U to 7800GT.

Anyway, before calling it a night I wanted to add this for other people reading this....... (currently at Newegg) With X1950 pro at $105 AR, 8600GTS $115 AR, HD2600XT $85 AR, And 7900GS $100 AR, the 7900GS is my last choice of the 4 offering the worst bang for the buck for the games mentioned in the OP. And yeah, if you can swing an HD3850, 3870, 8800GT, then go for it.

Ok I will give the card its due in newer games but if you look at Tom's VGA charts they do not show the 8600GTS doing that well in Oblivion with the same settings that you posted. Now I am not sure if they are exactly the same but it is the same resolution with 8xAF. What do you make of the big difference in the benchmarks?

Also Tom's has the 7900GS listed in their best gaming graphics cards for the money list along with the X1950 pro.

Direct quote from Tom's in their November guide.

"With no high-performance DirectX 10 cards under $200 to compete against it, the relatively powerful X1950 PRO is having a field day. Yes, the 8600 GTS is a DirectX 10 card, but it's more expensive than the X1950 PRO, and isn't in the same performance league when higher resolutions are used."

"The card's other competition is the 7900 GS. The X1950 PRO will usually beat the 7900 GS in most benchmarks at stock speeds, but the 7900 GS has a reputation for overclocking. The only other competition is its X1950 GT brother, which has an identical GPU, but slightly lower clockspeeds. It's difficult to recommend the GT, when it's only about $10 cheaper."

Now I admit I don't always think these guides are all that great esp the prices they quote. So does Tom's have it all wrong?

 

[pauldh]

The Tom's charts are IMO somewhat useless. I'd rather base an opinion on many reviews from different sites rather than look at a huge chart that probably is a grouping of performance from various driver versions over time. They can be helpful if used right, but not as an only source. What drivers were they using for the 8600GTS? But really, from what I see they show an 8600GTS way ahead of a 7900GS in Oblivion(lol and my old X1800XT I bought just for Oblivion beatin' both): http://www23.tomshardware.com/graphics_2007.html?modelx=33&model1=854&model2=712&chart=295



As far as the best cards for the money guide, I do like that guide. And it's very rare even on the forums, but I don't agree with the auther on the 7900GS being lumped with the X1950 pro anymore. I think that time has gone. He does explain the X1950 pro is generally ahead though (which to me is looking at games like Fear)and mentions the OC potential that made the 7900GS a nice option. But I think it should be updated to take into account that in new games like COD4, Crysis, UT3, etc. the X1950 pro is much better. He may very well do that in a future guide as those guides are written in advance and take time to be posted. Some of the reviews we have now he didn't have access to when he wrote that november guide. He goes by what he knows at the time he writes the article, and explains that prices and things can change. So I don't fault him, his guide is way more valuable IMO than the Tom's charts.

Also, he doesn't include rebate prices and takes the best price without considering rebates from newegg at the time of writing his article. But keep in mind, he can't put todays prices from the day you read the article into an article he wrote a month ago.

 

[caamsa]

Yea looking at that chart it is ahead. I think it is strange on the firingsquad site they run it at 1280X1024 with 8XAF and get approx 30 fps then in the tom's chart they have the same setting and only get about 16 fps. Both look like the same test to me with the same settings but that is a big difference in the fps. I can imagine the OC version doubles it performance. from 16 to 30 fps. Any ideas? Maybe better driver version...?

I was looking at the Best Buy add this morning and they have a BFG OC version of their 8800GT for $250.00 no rebates. That is actually a pretty good deal considering a lot of places are selling them for close to $300.00.

 

[pauldh]

yeah, typically it's either differnt settings and/or a different benchmark area of the game. We definately can't compare numbers directly between reviews. For FS to average 30 fps in the foliage, I'd think they reduced the settings. I wish they would state more clearly the settings used in every game but there intent is to just compare the cards. Given that it's a midrange card review, it's understandable they reduced settings. But who knows as they don't tell ya. I could check the comments section. Typically after a review like this if you ask brandon int he comments, he is helpful to answer them.

edit: I'd say they are still using max details comparing their results here to that newer review:
http://www.firingsquad.com/hardware/oblivion_high-end_performance/page5.asp
http://www.firingsquad.com/hardware/nvidia_geforce_8600_gts_preview/page9.asp

Look at 7900GT in one vs 7950GT 7900GS in the other. Also X1800XT and X1950 pro are close in Oblivion.

 

[cleeve]

Now I admit I don't always think these guides are all that great esp the prices they quote. So does Tom's have it all wrong?

I write those guides, and they have to last a month or so, so I try to include cards roughly on the same tier in case price fluctuates.

The X1950 PRO and 7900 GS are close, but at a $5 difference I'm with paul all the way here. The X1950 PRO is a better choice by far.

Having said that, if crysis is theis fellow's target, he'd be crazy not to spend an extra $40 for a 3850...

 

[pauldh]

When do you get your hands on a 3850 or two Cleeve?

 

[caamsa]

I write those guides, and they have to last a month or so, so I try to include cards roughly on the same tier in case price fluctuates.

The X1950 PRO and 7900 GS are close, but at a $5 difference I'm with paul all the way here. The X1950 PRO is a better choice by far.

Having said that, if crysis is theis fellow's target, he'd be crazy not to spend an extra $40 for a 3850...

Cleeve I enjoy your guides. I just find the prices in the video card guide seem to be off so it has the appearance of being old information and not up to date.

I wonder what you think of the 8600GTS VS the 7900GS>>>>???? I understand the 8600GTS is better in some of the newer games than the 7900GS, but at this time both cards are probably not a good choice as the newer cards seem to be getting better and better and cheaper and cheaper.

I would like to see some of these cards tested on a single core cpu just to see how they perform especially in Crysis. You did a guide a while back where you tested single core cpu's with a XP 2500+ up to a single core 3200+ I believe. Those were good articles since a lot of people still have single core cpu's but may be running a high end card. Any chance you will be doing any updates on those previous guides?

 

[cleeve]

8600 GTS vs. 7900 GS? When the 8600 GTS was newer it was an easy call, the 8600 GTS was wayy too expensive. Today, at $150 the 8600 GTS still looks to be $20 more than the 7900 GS.

It's a closer call now, but honsetly the 3850 makes the question irrelevant. For $30 more, the 3850 shows incredible gains over an 8600 GTS, something that performs in the range of the 2900 XT and 8800 GTS 320MB.

For the 8600 GTS to be viable, it's going to have to hit $125 to give it the price spread it needs from the 3850.


As for a single core, I might do another AGP review if the Ati brings out 3x00 cards for AGP, and if I do I'll probably include a few PCIe cards too, all on an Athlon64 3400+.

 

[caamsa]

8600 GTS vs. 7900 GS? When the 8600 GTS was newer it was an easy call, the 8600 GTS was wayy too expensive. Today, at $150 the 8600 GTS still looks to be $20 more than the 7900 GS.

It's a closer call now, but honsetly the 3850 makes the question irrelevant. For $30 more, the 3850 shows incredible gains over an 8600 GTS, something that performs in the range of the 2900 XT and 8800 GTS 320MB.

For the 8600 GTS to be viable, it's going to have to hit $125 to give it the price spread it needs from the 3850.


As for a single core, I might do another AGP review if the Ati brings out 3x00 cards for AGP, and if I do I'll probably include a few PCIe cards too, all on an Athlon64 3400+.

Cool, I am sure a lot of people would like to see how Crysis does with a single core cpu and a 8800GT. Thanks for the response.

 

[chookman]

I got Crysis yesty... I have e6600 and 7900GT with Dell 2407 and at 1920x1200 (native) its a slide show... to get anything decent it has to be set to medium with low res. and ive seen an 8800GT doing it easy at 1920x1200

 

[pauldh]

I'll be playing crysis on an 8800GT and FX-55 pretty soon. Also plan on popping in a X2 4200+ for comparison.

 

[caamsa]

I'll be playing crysis on an 8800GT and FX-55 pretty soon. Also plan on popping in a X2 4200+ for comparison.

Would like to hear what your results are.....esp with the 4200+.

 

[vip3569]

Im actually running on a fx-55 with a 7900gs overclocked. Runs pretty well at 1440x900 with all medium settings.

 

[colonelblake]

8600 GTS vs. 7900 GS? When the 8600 GTS was newer it was an easy call, the 8600 GTS was wayy too expensive. Today, at $150 the 8600 GTS still looks to be $20 more than the 7900 GS.

It's a closer call now, but honsetly the 3850 makes the question irrelevant. For $30 more, the 3850 shows incredible gains over an 8600 GTS, something that performs in the range of the 2900 XT and 8800 GTS 320MB.

For the 8600 GTS to be viable, it's going to have to hit $125 to give it the price spread it needs from the 3850.


As for a single core, I might do another AGP review if the Ati brings out 3x00 cards for AGP, and if I do I'll probably include a few PCIe cards too, all on an Athlon64 3400+.

yes id love to see what you get. im on a 3500+ venice,nec 17"crt and a 7900gs...i average 21fps low 11 highest 41 on low at 800x600. lol