A Look at Cadillac's ELR, GM's Response to Tesla

[ibjeepr]

Technically what I stated is correct, it will go up to 40 miles on electric only. A hybrid can't. Though, I could have said:

"it can run up to 40 miles on electric only unless you exceed 70'ish mph or put the vehicle in "Maintain"? mode for anticipated mountain roads or such. Also, the engine will kick in once in a great while to prevent degradation from lack of use."

I worked at a GM dealer when reps were coming to the dealerships to go over the car with us and he said it does not, ever, run the wheels. It only maintains the battery. Whether or not the rep miss-understood or things changed since the article was written, I don't know. I actually read that article before the rep came to the store so I questioned him pretty hard about it in front of everyone. He insisted he was correct. I assume he took this stance because the engine doesn't ever drive the wheels alone. As the article states:

"In defense of Chevy’s earlier stance, the only way this gas engine (or the Prius’) could ever drive the wheels without lots of help from the battery is if you somehow MacGyvered up a way to jam the sun gear to a stop."

 

[g-unit1111]

Shocking to hear since VW and Hyundai both dont sell Hybrids...lol. They are full of BS though Diesel is a good alternative if priced right.

Wrong:

2013 Hyundai Sonata Hybrid: https://www.hyundaiusa.com/vehicles/2012/sonata-hybrid/?
2013 Volkswagen Jetta Hybrid: http://web.vw.com/hybrid/jetta/
2013 Volkswagen Tiguan Hybrid: http://web.vw.com/hybrid/?context=showroom

Hybrid models of the Golf and Passat will also be available in the next model year: http://www.caranddriver.com/news/volkswagen-confirms-hybrid-golf-jetta-and-passat-electrics-to-follow-car-news

And there's a planned Hyundai Santa Fe hybrid: http://www.caranddriver.com/news/hyundai-santa-fe-blue-hybrid-auto-shows

This is true. Many compacts get very high 30's or low 40's on the freeway, while hybrids only get about 45. Where hybrids truly shine is in mixed driving conditions, heavy traffic, city driving, etc. Standard gas engines are efficient when it comes to coasting, but stop and go kills it while hybrids stay strong.

Yeah that is what I was told - coasting is much easier on gas engines and diesels than in hybrids.

 

[danwat1234]

[citation][nom]alextheblue[/nom]Atkinson cycle engines have no balls. In my opinion, it would be foolish to just slap in an Atkinson variant in this car without any additional changes. Especially at this price range. They need to wait until the second gen platform, and even then only if they couple it with a more powerful electric motor (or add additional electric motor(s)).Also, there are other conditions in which the gas engine pitches in, not just when it is running in ER mode. For efficiency reasons the gas motor contributes at high speeds (on the highway) - you have to look at how the trans is set up to see why. I haven't seen tests comparing mileage at 80MPH+, but I will just say that EPA testing does not tell the whole story and I suspect doing real-world rush hour I-95 speeds in the Volt/ELR would be better than a Prius-type design in more ways than one.For the Cadillac variant they might even throw in a toggle for Performance mode that kicks the gas engine more often - such as when they stomp the gas pedal. In fact, in ER mode you're more likely to LOSE power if you're really flogging the bejesus out of it. Abusive driving or the "endless mountain climb" scenario, with a low battery, could limit available power.[/citation]

You're right, Atkinson cycle doesn't have much low end power and high end power is reduced as well. But, the 2 electric motors in the Volt combine to around 111KW of power, you do not need a powerful engine to get that car up to speed. Atkinson cycle for instance on the Lexus GS450H V6 hybrid which uses an Atkinson cycle engine and goes 0-60 in 5.6 seconds and gets around 30MPG!
Atkinson is a no-duh solution. That is also why Honda is planning on making their 2L and smaller "Earth Dreams" engines to have both OTTO cycle behavior and Atkinson cycle behavior on demand by valvetrain magic. This will let the engine have the power of OTTO when you want power, and Atkinson when you aren't pressing on the gas much.

There are NOT other conditions in which the engine propels the car directly. Do your research. It is only when the battery is drained and the car is travelling at a certain speed range and throttle level. Also if in mountain mode, which tells the car to hold the battery charge at it's current charge, whether or not it's low.
If the battery is charged and mountain mode isn't on, the engine is NEVER EVER on, unless the computer thinks the gas is getting stale, then it runs the engine.

 

[danwat1234]

[citation][nom]SGTgimpy[/nom]Just FYI the Volt/ELR does not use the gas motor to drive the wheels. It's like the Tesla and is only powered by the electric engine. In Volt/ELR the gas Engine is nothing more than an electric generator. It is never used nor is it physical connected to the drive wheels. Only Hybrids like the Prius use an Electric/gas power train hence the name Hybrid. In the ELR, GM just increased the Electric motors current output and most likely used higher end batteries than the Volt. I looked at getting a Volt and would have if I had a place to plug it in at my Apartment. If you drive less than 40 miles a day, they are well worth the money. My friend has one now and has successfully driven to work every day for a month and is still sitting half-full on the gas tank.[/citation]

Actually, it does use the engine to propel the vehicle, but only if the battery is drained (or in Mountain Mode) and only at certain speeds therein. Because it is more efficient to directly drive the wheels than to run a generator, convert that to DC voltage into the battery, only to go right out of the battery again, convert back to AC to the electric motors. That's why the Fisker Karma sucks! It'll only get ~20MPG on extended range mode because the engine cannot directly power the wheels.
The Volt and Prius and 2013 Accord Hybrid drivetrains are similar; 2 electric motors, series + parallel hybrid/plug-in hybrid/Extended-range EV.