A64?

ChipDeath · Feb 14, 2005

Right, My Nforce2 System is dead, and I was just going to replace the mobo to get it back to life, but Endyen's all but convinced me to just say to hell with it and get an A64 system. I've mentioned this in a couple of other threads, but I thought I'd just consolidate it into a new thread.

Basically, what I have that I would plan to re-use:
An ATX case with an Enermax 430W PSU.
2x SATA 8Mb Cache Maxtor 80Gb HDDs in RAID0
PATA 2Mb Cache Maxtor 80Gb
MSI 4xDVD writer
Lite-On CDRW
Ali PCI RAID card
SB Audigy
Sapphire Radeon 9800Pro
2x 256Mb Corsair PC3200LL
1x 512Mb Corsair XMS PC4000

Even though it was my epox mobo that died, I would be quite happy to still stay with them, so I was thinking about an Epox 9NDA3J (as recommended by endyen), and a winchester 3000+ or 3200+.

I would like to overclock as heavily as I can whilst staying on air (for now - budget won't stretch to water or anything.... besides, I was going to save enough for a Vapochill :evil:

), so I was thinking about a ThermalRight XP-120, and using my existing Vantec Stealth 92mm Fan on it. Would it be more cost-effective to get the XP-90 instead? how much worse is it?

Will I get problems running dual channel with 2 sticks in one channel and one in the other? I had this working fine for months in my nforce2 board, but then you only get three slots in those anyhoo...

I wasn't using the audigy in the nforce2 rig - soundstorm was a great thing, but because nforce3 is lacking it, I'll use the audigy if I can. I'm assuming no-one's had any problems with audigy + nforce3?

All my HDDs were plugged into the PCI RAID controller, two in RAID 0 and one just as a single drive (I wanted the optical drives to have exclusive use of an IDE channel each, so they got the on-board ones). Because It's an external card, and the copy of XP installed on the RAID array is fully set up and happy with it, I'm hoping I'll have no problems with simply re-attaching all as it was. Any other thoughts on this?

And finally, is the higher multiplier of the 3200+ worth paying ~30% more for? Bearing in mind overclockability is a big thing here.

Yes, I'll be trying to avoid a re-install of the OS, as I was extremely happy with the way everything was set up before it died. Hopefully just booting it into safe mode the first time, uninstalling everything, and then reboot+installing new mobo drivers will leave it all happy.

I've never played with an A64 rig before... should be fun!

Bit of a long one - if you got down to here then thanks for reading! All opinions welcome.

---
"Sex without love is an empty experience...
But as empty experiences go, it's one of the best" - Woody Allen

schuy1 · Feb 14, 2005

I replaced my nForce3 board with a nForce4, but while I used the NF3, I had no probs with my audigy2zs working on it. And you are gonna be happy listening to endyen, My pal just dumped about $400 in parts coming from a athlon xp1600 to a athlon xp3200 and (some ram vid card too)And my A64 3000 smokes his setup. What socket is that Epox board you are looking at 754 or 939?

ChipDeath · Feb 14, 2005

It's 939. I wants me a winchester

Only way to get one that isn't horribly overpriced.

I'm hoping for 2.5Ghz, 2.4 would be ok though :evil:

I'm going to try to repair the old board afterwards, and maybe build a PC for selling or as a backup. Although I'd hate to get rid of the old CPU.

---
"Sex without love is an empty experience...
But as empty experiences go, it's one of the best" - Woody Allen

pauldh · Feb 14, 2005

I think it's a good time for you to do the A64 upgrade. You could even do a cheaper S754 system too. Although I am all for the Winchesters if you can afford it. Personally, I'm OK with the 3000+, but I do wish i had plunked down the extra money on the 3200+ to get the higher multiplier allowing for higher overclocks and 4X HT at the same time. A64's work a little differently in Overclocking/tweaking compared to AXP's or P4's (as I am sure you know).

Hey on the bright side, not sure what your AXP's speed is, but they seem to be holding their resale value well now.

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ChipDeath · Feb 14, 2005

It's a 1700+, but JHUIB one. Does 2Ghz@~1.41V, and 2.3@~1.73V. Great chip

---
"Sex without love is an empty experience...
But as empty experiences go, it's one of the best" - Woody Allen

pat · Feb 14, 2005

*Sapphire Radeon 9800Pro
2x 256Mb Corsair PC3200LL
1x 512Mb Corsair XMS PC4000*

I would go with 754 because your memory wont allow yo tu go dual channel, so, by going 200 MHz less than 754 with 939, and going single channel, you'll loose much of the 939's advantage.

Get a good socket 754 with enough ram slot to fit all your memory and you'll be ok.

-Always put the blame on you first, then on the hardware !!!

endyen · Feb 15, 2005

Sorry, no twinning with nforce3 or 4. I wouldn't sweet it though, just get another 512. Then you can use the 2 256s on your old board, when you replace the caps.
Before I got my A64, I had an xp-m@2.4. Even at stock, the new setup was better.
I do have a bit of an ulterior motive though. I will be upgrading another xp setup soon, and want someone to tell me they OCed thier winchester to 2.6. Without having scottchen around, I'm counting on you.

ChipDeath · Feb 15, 2005

OK, I'll buy a 3200+ and the mobo. I'll stick with the stock cooler for now, and see how that goes. Likewise I'll see what I can do with my current memory before buying more.

I'll spend some time today researching the whole memory/a64/dual channel thing, but while I'm here:

Are there any problems or limitations on overclocking caused by populating ALL 4 memory slots on nforce3 939 boards? I was thinking that if I get another stick of 512, then I could stick 768Mb in each channel (1x256 & 1x512)... That would be cool...

I want high memory clocks, so I'm looking at PC4000 stuff. I already have the 512Mb Corsair XMS PC4000 - if I get another 512Mb of Crucial ballistix PC4000 will the two play nicely in DC you think? This was the entire reason I bought that stick of Corsair in the first place - so when I came to upgrade, I could re-use it

I will be upgrading another xp setup soon, and want someone to tell me they OCed thier winchester to 2.6.

Mission Accepted! :evil:

---
"Sex without love is an empty experience...
But as empty experiences go, it's one of the best" - Woody Allen

ChipDeath · Feb 15, 2005

I won't disagree that 754 is still a good viable solution, but an ocing nut like me simply has to buy a Winchester

I'll probably just run 1Gb in single-channel until I get some more RAM.

---
"Sex without love is an empty experience...
But as empty experiences go, it's one of the best" - Woody Allen

endyen · Feb 15, 2005

Thanx!

ChipDeath · Feb 15, 2005

Know any good A64 overclocking guides? I've been doing a little reading, but more sources are always helpful

The one in the CPU overclocking forum is only about 754, so is a bit out of date.

---
"Sex without love is an empty experience...
But as empty experiences go, it's one of the best" - Woody Allen

endyen · Feb 15, 2005

PM Paul. It's only a little different from xp OCing. The trick is in using the HTT multiplier.
When I get one, I will probably use cheap pc3200. I'll set the memory bus to 333, set the HTT to 4X and see how high I can raise the "FSB".
My samsung ram will do 220+ so, if set to 333, it shouldn't be a problem until almost 2.7. If I can get anywhere near that, I'll be smiling big.

ChipDeath · Feb 15, 2005

I'll have a play.

I've ordered the 9NDA3J and a 3200+. Should be here in a couple days I guess.

Had a quick scout around and seen people saying the on-board sound is crap on these boards.. But I'm using the Audigy, so why care :lol: . I'll turn it off.

---
"Sex without love is an empty experience...
But as empty experiences go, it's one of the best" - Woody Allen

pauldh · Feb 15, 2005

This is what helped me best understand overclocking my Winchester when I got it. Just wish i had read it before and ordered a 3200+ instead. I'd have liked 2.4GHz+ with 4X LDT. Best i can do is 2.235GHz with 4X, and 2.3GHz with 3X doesn't perform any better.

<A HREF="http://www.insanetek.com/index.php?page=overclocka64" target="_new">http://www.insanetek.com/index.php?page=overclocka64</A>

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Edited by Pauldh on 02/15/05 06:14 PM.

ChipDeath · Feb 16, 2005

Very useful, thanks!

Glad I ordered the 3200+

I want 2.6Ghz. unlikely, but I'll try....

---
"Sex without love is an empty experience...
But as empty experiences go, it's one of the best" - Woody Allen

pauldh · Feb 16, 2005

My goal was 2.4GHz, with secret hopes for 2.6GHz too like Anand hit. But I haven't tried dropping the multiplier to 8 nor using different ram. I basically spent 2-3 nights or so OC'in/benching and then went on to gaming. I am far from saying that I have reached this rigs best performing OC yet; need more time.

Nice thing with the 3200+ is 2.4GHz / 4X should be fairly easy. I'd be happy gaming at those settings.

By the way, look at that link and how big a difference it makes in 3dmark2001se dropping from 5X to 4X LDT.

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Edited by Pauldh on 02/15/05 06:24 PM.

endyen · Feb 16, 2005

2.4 wouldn't be good enough for me. My newcastle 3200 does 2.45 no problem. A winchester @ 2.4 would be just about the same.

pauldh · Feb 16, 2005

Your spoiled.

I came from a P4 2.6C and mobile XP2500+, which even both OC'ed to the max, this 2.2Gz Winchester way out bungilo's them.

But I do understand as getting 2.4GHz out of a mobile XP just made me try again, which paid off as the second did 2.6GHz. So I have to admit, 2.3GHz was a letdown for this Winchester for OC'in fun factor, yet in reality even gaming at 2.2Ghz, it's blazing fast. I quickly learned that the 9800 pro was what was really holding me back as HL2 the same playable settings were possible on the P4 2.6C at stock speeds as were on this A64. The A64 outbenched it by a little, but not enough to increase resolution or enable AA.

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pauldh · Feb 17, 2005

I guess, it shouldn't limit the MHz OC's, it just limits the performance you get out of it. An A64 3200+ @ 2.4GHz using a 10X multiplier and 4X LDT, should outperform an A64 3000+ @ 2.4GHz with 9X multiplier and 3X LDT. Yet this seems opposite of what we came to expect from fsb overclocking giving a good performance boost.

I have not yet tried an 8X multiplier, seeing if the higher HTT(fsb) will help make up for the 3X LDT. With AXP it was so simple, the best performance came from maxing out the FSB and then the cpu MHz. It's just not the same with A64 though with that on die memory controller. At least it takes more tweaking to find out anyway. All this talk has me wanting to get cracking and start tweaking & learning. It's rare that I would give up so soon without being assured I found the best OC the system can do. Blame HL2's release for that.

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skligmund · Feb 17, 2005

From what I've been able to figure out, if you use 4 slots for RAM, 333 MHz will be your highest stock setting possible. Of course that can be overclocked, but with limited effectiveness, as the A64 controlls the memory, and it don;t much like 4 sticks. I'd try hard to make it a 2 stick setup if I were you.

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ChipDeath · Feb 17, 2005

Well, my parts have arrived, so I'll put them together after work hours end (a little under 5 1/2 hours from now...

It's weird seeing a socket which has no little square hole in the middle.. all those pins... :lol:

I've not even attached a single component yet & I'm already thinking "that little Fan on the Chipset has to go..." :evil:

---
"Sex without love is an empty experience...
But as empty experiences go, it's one of the best" - Woody Allen

pauldh · Feb 17, 2005

I've never tried to use more than two sticks in an A64, and actually rarely would in any system. I agree, stick to one stick or two sticks in DC.

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pauldh · Feb 17, 2005

Hey, Good news! Enjoy and post the OC results before going to bed tonight! Just Kidding, you can have until tomorrow night. :lol:

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ChipDeath · Feb 17, 2005

Should be fun.

This is where I find out if the rest of my hardware is OK. Except the Audigy - That's at my brother's house at the mo, so I'll have to live with AC97 for the moment :frown: ....

Isn't AMD's stock HS clip a weird design... kind of a cross between the old style spring clip and Intel's Cam-lever design.

I'll see what the temps are, and then may well buy an XP-120 or XP-90.. I'll have a shoot for pure clockspeed first I think, and then later on try to find the best overall performing setting...

only an hour and a half to go....

---
"Sex without love is an empty experience...
But as empty experiences go, it's one of the best" - Woody Allen

ChipDeath · Feb 17, 2005

Having some trouble here....

I get The ol' STOP ERROR jobbie while trying to boot windows. not every single time, but 90% of the time or so.

If I use my old Geforce2 Ultra instead of the 9800Pro, then it seems fine, and boots time and time again....

I've put the 9800Pro into another PC, and it runs fine in there too. I did have a voltmod on the card, but I've taken it off (thinking it might be part of the problem).

Any thoughts? I haven't installed the drivers for the gf2, the HDDs in that system have only ever known the 9800Pro...

So it looks like either a PSU problem (which I doubt, that 430W Enermax ran the old system just fine for months & runs it now ok with the gf2), or it's some sort of hardware/Drivers issue....

I think I might go and play with my AGP BIOS settings.

---
"Sex without love is an empty experience...
But as empty experiences go, it's one of the best" - Woody Allen

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