Acquired Template question: Weretiger Druid

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DougL <doug.lampert@tdytsi.com> wrote:
>> > Find me a legend of a werebear, and you might have a point.
>>
>> The Hobbit. That seems to be the source that was originally used.
>
>Tolkien would certainly have been aware of some Norse Berserker's
>supposed ability to actually turn into a bear. But this bears
>little resemblance to Beorn's ability to turn into a bear, which
>bears little resemblance to the D&D3.x werebear (Beorn was
>probably charotic good or chaotic neutral, the Berserkers are
>normally seen as evil, and none of them are infectious).

Of course, the Complete Warrior has the "Bear Warrior", which is much
more in line with the Norse Berserkers' legendary abilities.

Donald

 

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In article <pridnU3eyrC1Z7DfRVn-3g@comcast.com>,
Malachias Invictus <capt_malachias@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>"Michael Scott Brown" <mistermichael@earthlink.net> wrote in message
>news:9IvUd.7345$MY6.5630@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>> "Werebat" <ranpoirier@cox.net> wrote:
>
>>> Werebears are evil now? Why not just step aside and leave this
>>> discussion to people who actually know the game rules, Michael. :^)
>>
>> Find me a legend of a werebear, and you might have a point.
>
>The Hobbit. That seems to be the source that was originally used.

Also Eddings' Belgariad. One character turned into a bear whenever Garion was
in danger.
--
"Yo' ideas need to be thinked befo' they are say'd" - Ian Lamb, age 3.5
http://www.cs.queensu.ca/~dalamb/ qucis->cs to reply (it's a long story...)

 

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David Alex Lamb <dalamb@qucis.queensu.ca> wrote:
> In article <pridnU3eyrC1Z7DfRVn-3g@comcast.com>,
> Malachias Invictus <capt_malachias@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>"Michael Scott Brown" <mistermichael@earthlink.net> wrote in message
>>news:9IvUd.7345$MY6.5630@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>>> "Werebat" <ranpoirier@cox.net> wrote:
>>
>>>> Werebears are evil now? Why not just step aside and leave this
>>>> discussion to people who actually know the game rules, Michael. :^)
>>>
>>> Find me a legend of a werebear, and you might have a point.
>>
>>The Hobbit. That seems to be the source that was originally used.
>
> Also Eddings' Belgariad. One character turned into a bear whenever
> Garion was in danger.

Markedly post-dates both LotR and D&D. Not communicable, was inherited
by his son.

Beorn was the likely origin of werebears in D&D. In OD&D they were even
lawful ('good'), IIRC.


Keith
--
Keith Davies "English is not a language. English is a
keith.davies@kjdavies.org bad habit shared between Norman invaders
keith.davies@gmail.com and Saxon barmaids!"
http://www.kjdavies.org/ -- Frog, IRC, 2005/01/13

 

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"DougL" <doug.lampert@tdytsi.com> wrote in message
news:1110311805.266285.186690@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Malachias Invictus wrote:
> > "Michael Scott Brown" <mistermichael@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> > news:9IvUd.7345$MY6.5630@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> > > "Werebat" <ranpoirier@cox.net> wrote:
> >
> > >> Werebears are evil now? Why not just step aside and leave this
> > >> discussion to people who actually know the game rules, Michael.
> :^)
> > >
> > > Find me a legend of a werebear, and you might have a point.
> >
> > The Hobbit. That seems to be the source that was originally used.
>
> Tolkien would certainly have been aware of some Norse Berserker's
> supposed ability to actually turn into a bear.

Well, of course.

> But this bears little resemblance to Beorn's ability to turn into a bear,
which
> bears little resemblance to the D&D3.x werebear

I did not say that Tolkien wrote up the stats for the thing. On the other
hand, I have no doubt that the original Werebear in D&D was inspired by
Beorn.

> (Beorn was
> probably charotic good or chaotic neutral,

Where do you get that?

--
^v^v^Malachias Invictus^v^v^

It matters not how strait the gate,
How charged with punishment the scroll,
I am the Master of my fate:
I am the Captain of my soul.

from _Invictus_, by William Ernest Henley

 

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Malachias Invictus wrote:
> "DougL" <doug.lampert@tdytsi.com> wrote in message
> news:1110311805.266285.186690@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> > Malachias Invictus wrote:
> > > "Michael Scott Brown" <mistermichael@earthlink.net> wrote in
message
> > > news:9IvUd.7345$MY6.5630@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> > > > "Werebat" <ranpoirier@cox.net> wrote:
> > >
> > > >> Werebears are evil now? Why not just step aside and leave
this
> > > >> discussion to people who actually know the game rules,
Michael.
> > :^)
> > > >
> > > > Find me a legend of a werebear, and you might have a point.
> > >
> > > The Hobbit. That seems to be the source that was originally
used.
> >
> > Tolkien would certainly have been aware of some Norse Berserker's
> > supposed ability to actually turn into a bear.
>
> Well, of course.
>
> > But this bears little resemblance to Beorn's ability to turn into a
bear,
> which
> > bears little resemblance to the D&D3.x werebear
>
> I did not say that Tolkien wrote up the stats for the thing. On the
other
> hand, I have no doubt that the original Werebear in D&D was inspired
by
> Beorn.

The infectious nature and link to the lunar cycle both say that it
was based on Beorn PLUS other shifter legends at the absolute minimum.

> > (Beorn was
> > probably charotic good or chaotic neutral,
>
> Where do you get that?

What else? He shows substantial altruism, and a willingness to fight
evil just because it is evil in the scenes we see, so Good is odds
on.

But Neutral people can do good things and Gandolph considers getting
help from him to require some degree of trickery so we can't be sure
he is not Neutral in his general behavior and just having a couple
of good days in the books. Or he could easily be a Nuetral who just
really hates goblins/orks. Everything good we see him do is perfectly
consistent with such. So good and nuetral both fit.

But Chaotic is obvious. EVERYTHING we know about his lifesyle
screams chaotic, he is unpredicatable, he lives alone, he owes
alligence to no one, he has no clearly defined code of conduct that
we can see, he is a member of no organization or societal grouping.

Placing Beorn as Lawful is insane. CG or CN, but I would accept a
CE who just hates goblins with far less trouble than any type of
Lawful.

DougL

 

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"DougL" <doug.lampert@tdytsi.com> wrote in message
news:1110394147.053005.65890@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

> But Chaotic is obvious. EVERYTHING we know about his lifesyle
> screams chaotic, he is unpredicatable,

Actually, he is utterly predictable, which is why he was so easily
manipulated by Gandalf.

> he lives alone,

You are wrong. See below.

> he owes alligence to no one,

Wrong again. He lives with and has allegiances to his intelligent animal
companions. In fact, he is fiercely loyal to them.

> he has no clearly defined code of conduct that
> we can see, he is a member of no organization or societal grouping.

He is a member of a societal grouping of animals. Remember that he also
leads the bears.

> Placing Beorn as Lawful is insane.

I disagree.

--
^v^v^Malachias Invictus^v^v^

It matters not how strait the gate,
How charged with punishment the scroll,
I am the Master of my fate:
I am the Captain of my soul.

from _Invictus_, by William Ernest Henley