Advice on experimental hybrid (mobile processor + desktop GPU) mini-ITX build

[_Luc_]

Hi everyone,

(You may skip to the next section if you don't like backstories.)

I have had a Dell XPS (L502x) for three years now, whose nVidia GT 540M crashes regularily. The longer you use it, the more regularly you get crashes. The most likely cause is a series defect, definitely linked to something overheating on or between the Motherboard or graphics card. Proposed solutions range from underclocking and using low settings to redoing the thermal paste, though all the classics like try this driver, try that mod, etc. I tried it all, and the only semi-efficient solution is to have Dell support come over and swap in the Motherboard + GPU (which are soldered together) for a new pair. The PC still crashes but less often, and I can then play for an hour or two straight instead of 5-10 minutes between crashes.

This was a particularly painful way of living, especially since I had to spend half a day on the phone with dell support (which I experienced in 3 different countries and languages), so that they try every single thing until they accept it's a hardware problem. In Spain, they don't even shy away from asking a clean Windows reinstall. Anyway, my warranty expired a week ago, and with the new Dragon Age : Inquisition waiting out there, I thought it's time to step up the game and go to a new PC.

On the other hand, my need for mobility decreased a lot, what with a powerful smartphone and a laptop from work, and my desire for comfort and a good gaming experience has increased. All in all, the Dell is today used as a desktop computer with a handy extra screen on top. But buying a complete gaming rig in one go seems maybe a little expensive. I was thinking of having a desktop machine where I would only update half of its parts every 2-3 years, for example. However the first step, starting from a laptop, seems tricky at best.

Since the processor is a still perfectly good Sandy bridge, I am considering reusing it. It is hard to combine mobile and desktop technologies together, but in the end, all the people adding a desktop video card to a laptop (after all, it's only a PCI-express port) and the compact (mini-ITX form factor) gaming machines gave me hope. And it looks like a fun project.

This PC will have "two faces", since it will be an attempt at salvaging parts from my Dell XPS (L502x), and combining it with a dekstop GPU. Hence the name, Zaphod Beeblebrox (a worthy successor to Marvin, Slartibartfast, and Ford Prefect, my previous machines).

I came up with the plan below, and I need your opinions on it.

-----------------

What I can salvage from the laptop :

• 
  ■ Intel core i7 2670QM, Sandy bridge 4-core with 6MB cache, with integrated Intel HD3000 graphics processor
  ■ 2x 4GB DDR3
  ■ Seagate hard drive, 500GB 7200RPM
  ■ Intel WiFi Link 1000 BGN (mini PCIe half-card)
  ■ The optical drive ? I don't really need one if I can't salvage it.

What I need to buy :

• 
  ■ A new Motherboard
  ■ compatible with the processor (socket G2, 45W TDP supported, chipset Intel QM67, HM67 or HM65)
  ■ support for DDR3, at least 8GB, with 2 slots
  ■ with a PCIe x16 slot
  ■ ideally with a mini PCIe slot, or some other way to add a WiFi
  ■ An empty casing, with form factor adapted to motherboard. It should have space for a big-ass graphics card.
  ■ A high-end desktop graphics card.
  ■ A power supply that supports all this (probably 500W), ideally separate or removable from the case

A few generalities before getting into the details.

I spent my last 2 days gathering all the info I could.

I've had a look at barebones that come with a motherboard pre-installed, but all those that ship a G2 socket have a ridiculously small power budget compared to what a high end graphics card needs (like 100-150W).

Most (compatible) motherboards whose references I could find on the internet were mini-ITX for factors. I found a few 3.5" Single Board Computers, and only one micro-ATX.


General questions :

• 
  ■ Are there any compatibility issues I overlooked ?
  
  ■ The brands of (compatible) motherboards for which I found references on-line are COMMELL, Supermicro, Jetway, BCM, Aaeon, MSI IPC, Liantec, iBase and Artesyn/Emerson Power Network. Any major overlooks here ? I'll put the bunch of links below for the curious - some are not exactly what I need, but I already know that.
  
  ■ Along 2nd generation G2-socket mobile processors, some are 45W TDP (like mine) and some 35W TDP. Support for either is usually not explicitly stated in the specs of the motherboards. Is this a false question, as long as my PSU is good ? Or should I try to somehow find this out ?
  
  ■ I don't care too much for looks, the casing could be a shoe box for all I care. But for those who have experience with compact gaming machines, how thermally challenged is it going to be ? I mean, at best ? Because on the cooling side the G2 socket is very limiting.
  
  ■ I don't really plan on overclocking, so I guess the basic BIOS will do for any motherboard. But just in case, when I compare motherboards, are some brands "known" to be better (and to which I should give extra points) ?

Specific questions :

• 
  ■ If I get a motherboard with only one PCIe expansion slot (in which I'll put my GPU), i.e. no other PCI/mini-PCIe, will I be stuck with a USB Dongle as WiFi adapter ? Or is there another way I overlooked ?
  
  ■ Talking money, the lose variable is obviously the graphics card. Without it, and without one of the shady motherboards, the current price tag is 364€ (with mini PCIe) or 164€ (without mini PCIe). Is this price ridiculous for what I'm trying to achieve, compared to not going though all this fun ? Can I get an arguably better set-up for that price ? I have had a look at the recommended builds, and I think I'm kind of safe.
  
  For example, suppose I go really high end with a GTX 970 (MSI Twin Frozr V) at about 375€, then my total price tag would be 739€ (or 539€). Are there machines with a GTX 970 for that money, and a Sandy Bridge or better ? Of course any graphics card (though something that will be valid for 4-6 years) can be replaced in this calculation.
  
  The EUR/DOL rate is between 1.1 and 1.2 these days, meaning my prices without graphics card are 412$ and 186$. I'm just making sure what I am doing is not absolutely non-sensical. I know I haven't looked into cooling yet, for example, but it sometimes comes shipped with the motherboards, and generally is going to be dependant on the space inside my box.

Thanks in advance for your time and advices.



PS : Here are the motherboards I found to be compatible with my processor (mini ITX unless otherwise specified) :

COMMELL MS-C73 - micro ATX
COMMELL LV-67H
Supermicro X9SCV-QV4 - no mini PCI-e
Supermicro X9SCV-Q - no mini PCI-e
Jetway NC9BU-HM67
BCM MX67QM
BCM MX67QMD - PCI-e 4x only
Aaeon EMB-QM67 - PCI-e 4x only
MSI IM-QM67 - PCI-e (PCI instead)
Liantec ITX-QM67
iBase MI956

There are two more boards whose documentation I had a hard time finding since it's not officially available anymore : the Emerson MITX CORE 820, with a documentation sheet available here (pdf), and a Wade-8321-LU found here, whose most useful documentation is this thread.

 

[geofelt]

You have a possible project.

1. May I assume that your cpu chip is removable socket type, and not soldered to the motherboard.

2. Your links do not work for me. But searching for the IM-QM67, I found that it only has a pci graphics slot, not the pcie that allows for high performing graphics cards.
It does seem to have the laptop sodimm type of ram that you could use.

3. I did not check the others, but, you may find one to accommodate your wifi card.
If not, can you use a lan connection?
I think the key to a usb lwifi adapter is to find one with a strong antenna.

4. If you don't have cats or kids around, there is no need for a case, just leave the parts out on something like cardboard.

4. The msi is a mini-ITX format. Here is one case that will support the motherboard and a gpu up to 210mm long:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811119299
Remember that the msi will not work, you need a itx motherboard with a x16 graphics slot.

 

[_Luc_]

1. May I assume that your cpu chip is removable socket type, and not soldered to the motherboard.

2. Your links do not work for me. But searching for the IM-QM67, I found that it only has a pci graphics slot, not the pcie that allows for high performing graphics cards.
It does seem to have the laptop sodimm type of ram that you could use.

3. I did not check the others, but, you may find one to accommodate your wifi card.
If not, can you use a lan connection?
I think the key to a usb lwifi adapter is to find one with a strong antenna.

4. If you don't have cats or kids around, there is no need for a case, just leave the parts out on something like cardboard.

4. The msi is a mini-ITX format. Here is one case that will support the motherboard and a gpu up to 210mm long:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811119299
Remember that the msi will not work, you need a itx motherboard with a x16 graphics slot.

Thanks for your input. I updated the links (sorry I didn't test them), and the motherboard list with some more details. The CPU is indeed removable.

A LAN connection may not always be possible, I'm afraid.

No kids or other animals around, I'll keep the no-case option in mind.

 

[geofelt]

Considering the high cost of a suitable motherboard, I can't help but wondering if you would not do better by marketing the cpu and ram on ebay and using a more conventional set of parts.
I can see a mini-ITX if you were looking for the smallest possible pc, but not for one with a strong graphics card.

 

[SKiT_R31]

Hey _Luc_

It's a small world, I have the exact same laptop, with the exact same issues which I have tolerated for years until now. I have also come up with the exact same solution, which via the Google gateway is what has led me here (during my research).

How did you go with this? Did you attempt it or make any more progress?

While I've found quite a few boards existing, I've struggled to find many still stocked/available. There is a Jetway board here which look like it would do the trick, but the cooler apparently doesn't support our CPU @ 45w TDP, with the board not supporting better coolers as the site so helpfully mentions.

Alternatively are some eBay listings, the cheapest is this one which sounds great, has pcix+mini-pcix, a good cooler and is quite affordable. However I cannot find any information on the board to trust that it will support the CPU - edit found the link in your original post, maybe this is the answer? Real shame about 1 stick/4gb...

With the final option being this one, which has a manufacturer page which suggests CPU support, however no mini-pcix available (but USB inside) or heat sink is supplied - but there is a compatibility list for them.

I've also got a blueray burner, and had previously purchased an SSD (on top of my 750gb drive), using my existing memory all I'd need is a graphics card (msi GTX 970 sounds like the go) PSU and case - which I'm thinking of this one since its cheap and will take my CD drive, both 2.5" drives plus 2 x 3.5" drives for future storage (2xRAID maybe) and a graphics card of these dimensions.

Just need to bite the bullet, I'm happy to spend the money (it doesn't end up being much for quite a decent low-ish power system) providing all the parts happily work together...

Cheers,

-Dan

 

[Helgaiden]

Hi everyone,

(You may skip to the next section if you don't like backstories.)

I have had a Dell XPS (L502x) for three years now, whose nVidia GT 540M crashes regularily. The longer you use it, the more regularly you get crashes. The most likely cause is a series defect, definitely linked to something overheating on or between the Motherboard or graphics card. Proposed solutions range from underclocking and using low settings to redoing the thermal paste, though all the classics like try this driver, try that mod, etc. I tried it all, and the only semi-efficient solution is to have Dell support come over and swap in the Motherboard + GPU (which are soldered together) for a new pair. The PC still crashes but less often, and I can then play for an hour or two straight instead of 5-10 minutes between crashes.

This was a particularly painful way of living, especially since I had to spend half a day on the phone with dell support (which I experienced in 3 different countries and languages), so that they try every single thing until they accept it's a hardware problem. In Spain, they don't even shy away from asking a clean Windows reinstall. Anyway, my warranty expired a week ago, and with the new Dragon Age : Inquisition waiting out there, I thought it's time to step up the game and go to a new PC.

On the other hand, my need for mobility decreased a lot, what with a powerful smartphone and a laptop from work, and my desire for comfort and a good gaming experience has increased. All in all, the Dell is today used as a desktop computer with a handy extra screen on top. But buying a complete gaming rig in one go seems maybe a little expensive. I was thinking of having a desktop machine where I would only update half of its parts every 2-3 years, for example. However the first step, starting from a laptop, seems tricky at best.

Since the processor is a still perfectly good Sandy bridge, I am considering reusing it. It is hard to combine mobile and desktop technologies together, but in the end, all the people adding a desktop video card to a laptop (after all, it's only a PCI-express port) and the compact (mini-ITX form factor) gaming machines gave me hope. And it looks like a fun project.

This PC will have "two faces", since it will be an attempt at salvaging parts from my Dell XPS (L502x), and combining it with a dekstop GPU. Hence the name, Zaphod Beeblebrox (a worthy successor to Marvin, Slartibartfast, and Ford Prefect, my previous machines).

I came up with the plan below, and I need your opinions on it.

-----------------

What I can salvage from the laptop :

• 
  ■ Intel core i7 2670QM, Sandy bridge 4-core with 6MB cache, with integrated Intel HD3000 graphics processor
  ■ 2x 4GB DDR3
  ■ Seagate hard drive, 500GB 7200RPM
  ■ Intel WiFi Link 1000 BGN (mini PCIe half-card)
  ■ The optical drive ? I don't really need one if I can't salvage it.

What I need to buy :

• 
  ■ A new Motherboard
  ■ compatible with the processor (socket G2, 45W TDP supported, chipset Intel QM67, HM67 or HM65)
  ■ support for DDR3, at least 8GB, with 2 slots
  ■ with a PCIe x16 slot
  ■ ideally with a mini PCIe slot, or some other way to add a WiFi
  ■ An empty casing, with form factor adapted to motherboard. It should have space for a big-ass graphics card.
  ■ A high-end desktop graphics card.
  ■ A power supply that supports all this (probably 500W), ideally separate or removable from the case

A few generalities before getting into the details.

I spent my last 2 days gathering all the info I could.

I've had a look at barebones that come with a motherboard pre-installed, but all those that ship a G2 socket have a ridiculously small power budget compared to what a high end graphics card needs (like 100-150W).

Most (compatible) motherboards whose references I could find on the internet were mini-ITX for factors. I found a few 3.5" Single Board Computers, and only one micro-ATX.


General questions :

• 
  ■ Are there any compatibility issues I overlooked ?
  
  ■ The brands of (compatible) motherboards for which I found references on-line are COMMELL, Supermicro, Jetway, BCM, Aaeon, MSI IPC, Liantec, iBase and Artesyn/Emerson Power Network. Any major overlooks here ? I'll put the bunch of links below for the curious - some are not exactly what I need, but I already know that.
  
  ■ Along 2nd generation G2-socket mobile processors, some are 45W TDP (like mine) and some 35W TDP. Support for either is usually not explicitly stated in the specs of the motherboards. Is this a false question, as long as my PSU is good ? Or should I try to somehow find this out ?
  
  ■ I don't care too much for looks, the casing could be a shoe box for all I care. But for those who have experience with compact gaming machines, how thermally challenged is it going to be ? I mean, at best ? Because on the cooling side the G2 socket is very limiting.
  
  ■ I don't really plan on overclocking, so I guess the basic BIOS will do for any motherboard. But just in case, when I compare motherboards, are some brands "known" to be better (and to which I should give extra points) ?

Specific questions :

• 
  ■ If I get a motherboard with only one PCIe expansion slot (in which I'll put my GPU), i.e. no other PCI/mini-PCIe, will I be stuck with a USB Dongle as WiFi adapter ? Or is there another way I overlooked ?
  
  ■ Talking money, the lose variable is obviously the graphics card. Without it, and without one of the shady motherboards, the current price tag is 364€ (with mini PCIe) or 164€ (without mini PCIe). Is this price ridiculous for what I'm trying to achieve, compared to not going though all this fun ? Can I get an arguably better set-up for that price ? I have had a look at the recommended builds, and I think I'm kind of safe.
  
  For example, suppose I go really high end with a GTX 970 (MSI Twin Frozr V) at about 375€, then my total price tag would be 739€ (or 539€). Are there machines with a GTX 970 for that money, and a Sandy Bridge or better ? Of course any graphics card (though something that will be valid for 4-6 years) can be replaced in this calculation.
  
  The EUR/DOL rate is between 1.1 and 1.2 these days, meaning my prices without graphics card are 412$ and 186$. I'm just making sure what I am doing is not absolutely non-sensical. I know I haven't looked into cooling yet, for example, but it sometimes comes shipped with the motherboards, and generally is going to be dependant on the space inside my box.

Thanks in advance for your time and advices.



PS : Here are the motherboards I found to be compatible with my processor (mini ITX unless otherwise specified) :

COMMELL MS-C73 - micro ATX
COMMELL LV-67H
Supermicro X9SCV-QV4 - no mini PCI-e
Supermicro X9SCV-Q - no mini PCI-e
Jetway NC9BU-HM67
BCM MX67QM
BCM MX67QMD - PCI-e 4x only
Aaeon EMB-QM67 - PCI-e 4x only
MSI IM-QM67 - PCI-e (PCI instead)
Liantec ITX-QM67
iBase MI956

There are two more boards whose documentation I had a hard time finding since it's not officially available anymore : the Emerson MITX CORE 820, with a documentation sheet available here (pdf), and a Wade-8321-LU found here, whose most useful documentation is this thread.

Did you ever figure anything out? If not,
Go for the WADE-8321-LU. The link you have for it in your OP is good and ive gone in there and updated it with alot of improtant info. There is an ebay seller from israel selling these for $35 (+$38 shipping) which puts it in a price point none of those other choices can hit. It has only one SO-DIMM though so get yourself an 8gb stick, and it has a full length mini-PCIe for a wifi card. Im waiting to take delivery on mine so i can build a mini-itx gaming setup using the cooler master elite 130 case, which can fit full size graphics cards and PSUs.

Heres the ebay link
http://www.ebay.com/itm/SBC-Mini-ITX-Intel-i3-i5-i7-Mobile-Socket-G2-Intel-QM67-Supports-dual-display-/251713231078#ht_2137wt_900

 

[dovedescent7]

I'm really glad I found this thread I went ahead and ordered the aaeon qm67 but I don't understand the psu configuration.
It only has a 4pin power connector which I used from a corsair atx psu, but km not seeing any signs of life . any suggestions?

 

[_Luc_]

Sorry folks for not coming back to this thread earlier. I did go through with it, SKiT_R31, and used the Supermicro X9SCV-Q (mostly for price/availability at that time) - and now I use a USB dongle for WiFi.

Other than this minor inconvenience, everything is great! Went for a GTX960 and had a lot of fun on last-gen games like the Witcher 3. All for an overall price tag of about 500€.


Helgaiden, I went with the cooler master elite 130 as well! The fact that documentation on the WADE-8321-LU is hard to come by made me a little wary, so I went for a slightly safer though slightly more expensive option. I've put both SO-DIMMs from my laptop inside it (2x4G iirc), no problems.