[SOLVED] Advice on fan placement - NZXT Phantom

[Vellaura]

Hey all!

I just wanted to get some advice on my fan placements, I haven't had any heating issues but I just can't help but feel something could be better.

I have a NZXT Phantom

I drew a little <Mod Edit> picture of my current fan placements.

The only thing I'm thinking is either removing the side fan on the bottom and letting only the front intake fan bring in the cool air for the gpu, I don't know anything about thermal dynamics, is this current setup inefficient?

Either that or I do some custom job where the bottom is a push pull setup from the front intake into another intake inside pushing into the gpu fan.

Thank you

https://imgur.com/9dV7Pku

 

[alceryes]

This looks good, except for the side fan you mentioned. Can you move that side fan to the front as a second front intake?

Just to confirm, the top fan is an intake, correct?

 

[Phaaze88]

I had one of these...

1)No to side intake, unless you block off the vent on the opposite side. What will happen if you don't:
The air will come in from the side and go right out the vents on the other side.
Same deal with the front intake; it'll get blown right out the side.

2)No to top intake if you're using a tower air cooler, because it's fan already draws air from above.
A top intake can push some air down and away from the tower air cooler.

3)Front intake, rear exhaust. Done.

 

[scout_03]

use 2 front fans as intake an back with top as exhaust for hot air ni side one or bottom .

 

[Phaaze88]

@alceryes @scout_03
The Phantom does not have tooling for a second front intake.

 

[Vellaura]

This looks good, except for the side fan you mentioned. Can you move that side fan to the front as a second front intake?

Just to confirm, the top fan is an intake, correct?

Their is no tool that can make a second front intake unfortunately, at least not where i'm aware of, but it doesn't seem so, unless I did some kind of make shift thing,

Yes the top fan is an intake.

I had one of these...

1)No to side intake, unless you block off the vent on the opposite side. What will happen if you don't:
The air will come in from the side and go right out the vents on the other side.
Same deal with the front intake; it'll get blown right out the side.

2)No to top intake if you're using a tower air cooler, because it's fan already draws air from above.
A top intake can push some air down and away from the tower air cooler.

3)Front intake, rear exhaust. Done.

1) So should I just remove the side intake and only have the 1 front intake? Would be that be much better for the gpu? I was imagining the GPU would still be sucking in the side intake fan air. I also have a hard drive where that side intake is keeping that cool.

2) Oh I thought it'd be nice for the CPU heatsink and fan, my north bridge gets pretty hot, thought it'd be nice to have like a triple push pull into the cpu fan then out the back. Is there no benefit at all from this? My only other option would then be having another exhaust to the left of it.

Thanks for the replies.

So I guess that just leaves it to whether I should simply remove the side intake and whether it'll make that much of a difference if I move the top intake as a exhaust, it was incredibly difficult getting it in there, its a incredibly tight spot lmao.

Thanks

 

[Phaaze88]

1) So should I just remove the side intake and only have the 1 front intake? Would be that be much better for the gpu? I was imagining the GPU would still be sucking in the side intake fan air. I also have a hard drive where that side intake is keeping that cool.

2) Oh I thought it'd be nice for the CPU heatsink and fan, my north bridge gets pretty hot, thought it'd be nice to have like a triple push pull into the cpu fan then out the back. Is there no benefit at all from this? My only other option would then be having another exhaust to the left of it.

Thanks for the replies.

So I guess that just leaves it to whether I should simply remove the side intake and whether it'll make that much of a difference if I move the top intake as a exhaust, it was incredibly difficult getting it in there, its a incredibly tight spot lmao.

1)The gpu's own fans already draw air from the side. They're not there for show.
The side fan will have the unwanted effect of bringing air in, pushing it right out the other side, and away from the gpu, if you don't block that up.
You can keep the side fan, but block up that vent. I've no idea why NZXT put that vent there, it was pretty dumb.

2)I don't think north bridge overheating has been a thing for awhile... besides, the cpu cooler sits over the north bridge anyway, right? So what's the top intake doing?

Top intake CAN work, but most of the time it depends on what kind of cooler is on the gpu.
A)Blower, or turbo card. Example here. ✅
B)Custom liquid, ✅
C)Hybrid, ✅
D)All the other air cooled models, ❌

3)What are your components anyways?

 

[scout_03]

for the second fan in front you might have to do some mod to install it .

 

[Phaaze88]

for the second fan in front you might have to do some mod to install it .

Where would you put it though, if not in the drive tray and be forced to leave it open/remove the door.
I did that with my old Phantom 820 for craps n giggles. It didn't really do a whole lot though.

 

[Vellaura]

1)The gpu's own fans already draw air from the side. They're not there for show.
The side fan will have the unwanted effect of bringing air in, pushing it right out the other side, and away from the gpu, if you don't block that up.
You can keep the side fan, but block up that vent. I've no idea why NZXT put that vent there, it was pretty dumb.

2)I don't think north bridge overheating has been a thing for awhile... besides, the cpu cooler sits over the north bridge anyway, right? So what's the top intake doing?

Top intake CAN work, but most of the time it depends on what kind of cooler is on the gpu.
A)Blower, or turbo card. Example here. ✅
B)Custom liquid, ✅
C)Hybrid, ✅
D)All the other air cooled models, ❌

3)What are your components anyways?

1) Yeah that actually makes a lot of sense. I do like the idea of blocking up the vent but I'm not sure how, any recommendations of what materials to use?

2) Products :: GeForce^(R) GTX 970 this is my card exactly.

3) Much older system aha, considering the case amirite 😀

Motherboard: Asus Rampage III Formula
CPU: Intel Core i7 950
CPU Cooler: Coolermaster 212 RGB Black Edition
GPU: Leadtek GTX 570
PSU: Corsair AX850
Storage: WD1002FAEX
Case: NZXT Phantom
RAM: 12 gig DDR3 GSkill Ripjaw 1333mhz
MONITOR: Samsung BX2450

for the second fan in front you might have to do some mod to install it .

Yea maybe I could hang it with zip ties or something, or just block off the vent as suggested.

Where would you put it though, if not in the drive tray and be forced to leave it open/remove the door.
I did that with my old Phantom 820 for craps n giggles. It didn't really do a whole lot though.

Might do more good to just remove the side, if I can't cover up the vent right?

 

[Phaaze88]

@Vellaura
1)A couple of free, DIY tips:
-Cut up some old cardboard from a box you're not using, paint it to match the color of the chassis(optional), and use some tape.
-Got any foam left lying around from older packages, like cpu coolers, or a chassis?

2)~Ohhh, you do have a blower card! You can get away with top intake with those kinds of gpu coolers.
I have doubts if the top intake is actually helping the north bridge, since the cpu cooler would be snatching some of the air you intended for the NB.

3) Motherboard: Asus Rampage III Formula
Dang, that is one beefy heatsink. The board manufacturers never should've moved away from that design - that's why there's mobos today with little VRM fans and a fan on the chipset... that was stupid.

Are you sure it's overheating, and not just a matter of that particular device having higher operating thermals?

Might do more good to just remove the side, if I can't cover up the vent right?

Right.

Another thing I want to be sure of: Do you have your fans setup correctly? Some people do manage to get this wrong.
For reference:

Spoiler

 

[Vellaura]

@Vellaura
1)A couple of free, DIY tips:
-Cut up some old cardboard from a box you're not using, paint it to match the color of the chassis(optional), and use some tape.
-Got any foam left lying around from older packages, like cpu coolers, or a chassis?

2)~Ohhh, you do have a blower card! You can get away with top intake with those kinds of gpu coolers.
I have doubts if the top intake is actually helping the north bridge, since the cpu cooler would be snatching some of the air you intended for the NB.

3) Motherboard: Asus Rampage III Formula
Dang, that is one beefy heatsink. The board manufacturers never should've moved away from that design - that's why there's mobos today with little VRM fans and a fan on the chipset... that was stupid.

Are you sure it's overheating, and not just a matter of that particular device having higher operating thermals?


Right.

Another thing I want to be sure of: Do you have your fans setup correctly? Some people do manage to get this wrong.
For reference:

Spoiler

1) Honestly, I've been thinking and here's what I think I will do. I'm going to remove the small hard drive cage closer to the psu area and put the side fan to the left of the hard drive bay directly in front of the front intake fan. I'll move the hard drive from that small hard drive cage to the front hard drive area and so it'll be like a push - hard drive - pull fan setup. I realised having grommeted filters on both sides would be great for this since the 2nd fan on inside can draw fresh air from both sides. I noticed in the newer phantom models that it has that exact setup with a fan on the inside. I guess they thought of it later.

Going to use zip ties to just hang it off from somewhere, nice and tight.

https://imgur.com/a/IXZVWPO

Heres a drawing I did to give you an idea .

3) Aha, im not sure I understand, is that a good thing or a bad thing? I know my Mobo is very old, i would imagine newer boards are better in every way.

It's not overheating per say, just gets hot. As I said just trying to get the most I can, anywhere I can fix

Aha, I did a lot of research on the airflow direction, took a while but I figured it out, thanks for pointing it out anyways

I'll post a picture of the new setup once I get a chance, might just do it when I open it up to reseat my gpu.....giving me issues -_-

 

[Phaaze88]

3) Aha, im not sure I understand, is that a good thing or a bad thing? I know my Mobo is very old, i would imagine newer boards are better in every way.

I think it's bad that they moved away from those designs... they only recently started going back to them.
A)Aluminum heatsinks > inferior plastic-looking crap they've been using as of late on the VRMs.
B)Long heatpipe connecting the VRM, NB, SB... they never should've done away with that one.
B-2)Some boards have VRM and SB fans... that's just another point of failure. Just stick with the heatpipe.

1) Honestly, I've been thinking and here's what I think I will do. I'm going to remove the small hard drive cage closer to the psu area and put the side fan to the left of the hard drive bay directly in front of the front intake fan. I'll move the hard drive from that small hard drive cage to the front hard drive area and so it'll be like a push - hard drive - pull fan setup. I realised having grommeted filters on both sides would be great for this since the 2nd fan on inside can draw fresh air from both sides. I noticed in the newer phantom models that it has that exact setup with a fan on the inside. I guess they thought of it later.

Going to use zip ties to just hang it off from somewhere, nice and tight.

Sounds like a plan! 👍

 

[Vellaura]

Hey I got some time to do the mod job tomorrow. I was just wondering, could I use a cotton string to hook up the fan from its screw holes to the chassi? My only concern is that it would be above the hard drive, not directly, just near it, which gets to about 35c, could that be a fire hazard? In case the zip ties don't fit through the hole.

Thanks

 

[Phaaze88]

Hey I got some time to do the mod job tomorrow. I was just wondering, could I use a cotton string to hook up the fan from its screw holes to the chassi? My only concern is that it would be above the hard drive, not directly, just near it, which gets to about 35c, could that be a fire hazard? In case the zip ties don't fit through the hole.

Thanks

HDDs aren't considered toasty until 50C-ish.

 

[Vellaura]

Hey all, so I'm at a bit of a crossroads. I'm struggling to put this side fan in somehow, it ended up being harder then I thought. I have some questions.

1) Would it be okay to have the fan directly on the harddrive? Or should I just abandon it completely and keep the 1 front intake.

I was going to put it on the other side of the harddrive chassi but don't want it grinding on the chassi just in case.

2) I have discovered something interesting, when I removed the small hard drive cage I realised I could fit in 2 screws (enough to not have it move) for the side fan to in fact go on the floor blowing hair from below up top, as there are intake holes. Would this work or be better?

I have made a little illustration to put it better in perspective 😀

So basically tossing up between just removing it entirely and having the 1 front intake or putting on the floor pushing air up. I'm not sure if the floor fan will be effective.

Any tips or methods is appreciated. Thank you

https://imgur.com/a/hkumdIB

 

[Phaaze88]

1)I didn't think it was necessary in the first place... but if you could actually pull it off, I wouldn't have seen a problem with it.
Basically, if you can't fit it, don't worry about it.

2)Do NOT do a bottom intake.
The gap between the floor of the chassis and the surface of whatever you place it on is a HUGE air restriction in itself. It's just too close; fans do need some space to work with.
Bottom intake is not very efficient in many models - not even in the O11 Dynamic.
Cooler Master's SL600M is one of the best examples of bottom intake that works well.

 

[Karadjgne]

Relocate the ssd and hdd to the unused optical bays. Not that hard to do. Remove the hdd trays entirely and free up any restrictions.

Front fan needs to be a higher pressure fan, not high airflow. A high pressure fan MOVES a lot of air, a high airflow fan moves A LOT of air, there's a difference. In your case, you need that air shoved at the gpu. Keep rpms higher.

If using side fans, keep them middling rpm and they need to be high airflow, you want air in but not counteracting the push to the gpu from the front intake.

Top fan depends. If it's forward located, lower rpm intake, help feed and supplement the cpu draw but don't overpower any flow from below. If the fan is rear located, then high airflow fan as exhaust since you want to move as much air as possible and pressure is irrelevant.

Rear exhaust should always be high airflow.

There's more to airflow than just moving air, it's moving air in a specific direction. With that in mind, fan curves and power are important. A bottom fan pushing all the air straight up is going to kill gpu temps, help cpu temps. A side intake feeding the push from the front is going to help both, but if that side overpowers the front, you'll loose air flow as such and hurt cpu/gpu temps.

 

[Vellaura]

1)I didn't think it was necessary in the first place... but if you could actually pull it off, I wouldn't have seen a problem with it.
Basically, if you can't fit it, don't worry about it.

2)Do NOT do a bottom intake.
The gap between the floor of the chassis and the surface of whatever you place it on is a HUGE air restriction in itself. It's just too close; fans do need some space to work with.
Bottom intake is not very efficient in many models - not even in the O11 Dynamic.
Cooler Master's SL600M is one of the best examples of bottom intake that works well.

Oh ok, good thing I asked. I'm going to ask dad if he has one those double sided sticky pad things, if so I'm going to just stick it on the opposite side of the harddrive area, this should also give it plenty of space for the fan to be anywhere near the chassi in case of a clash.

If not I'll just leave it with the 1 front intake. Thanks for the in depth info

 

[Vellaura]

Relocate the ssd and hdd to the unused optical bays. Not that hard to do. Remove the hdd trays entirely and free up any restrictions.

Front fan needs to be a higher pressure fan, not high airflow. A high pressure fan MOVES a lot of air, a high airflow fan moves A LOT of air, there's a difference. In your case, you need that air shoved at the gpu. Keep rpms higher.

If using side fans, keep them middling rpm and they need to be high airflow, you want air in but not counteracting the push to the gpu from the front intake.

Top fan depends. If it's forward located, lower rpm intake, help feed and supplement the cpu draw but don't overpower any flow from below. If the fan is rear located, then high airflow fan as exhaust since you want to move as much air as possible and pressure is irrelevant.

Rear exhaust should always be high airflow.

There's more to airflow than just moving air, it's moving air in a specific direction. With that in mind, fan curves and power are important. A bottom fan pushing all the air straight up is going to kill gpu temps, help cpu temps. A side intake feeding the push from the front is going to help both, but if that side overpowers the front, you'll loose air flow as such and hurt cpu/gpu temps.

I don't think it's possible to mount anything other then a optical drive in that area, doesn't look like it would fit. Also doesn't a harddrive and ssd need some cooling?

That was a lot of info to take in, I'll have to research this one a bit.. I honestly don't know much about it. Aside from the directions I just keep everything at low rpm for the silence. Never had a thermal issues for the years I used it.

Recently I've had to swap out my AIO for a heatsink so the side big fan got put up top as a intake.

Been trying to manage a good system since.

But I think the 1 intake for the gpu should be enough, if not 2 push pull intakes as I'm assuming that would be a bit better.

Thank you for the detailed info regarding flow/pressure.

 

[Vellaura]

So I basically just removed the side fan. I was going to gluetack the fan onto the chassi but it just didn't feel safe aha. However removing out the hard drive cage opened up plenty of ventilation from the sides and even the bottom so I'm assuming all that fresh air coming in is being pushed in towards the gpu. Thanks for all your help

https://imgur.com/a/3X3VVSK

View: https://imgur.com/a/3X3VVSK


My Chassi is not directly on the floor, its quite a bit elevated so I'm not sure if that would help with the bottom side ventilation.