AGP Platform Analysis, Part 1: New Cards, Old System

[Datman]

Good grief, do you get sore after buying something in Australia?

:lol: Yeah, sometimes they use the small shaft. 8O

Oh thanks for that clip below. Thats what I'm talking about, the REAL deal, very nice indeed. 8O

Thanks, for you bud.

 

[Talon]

Good grief, do you get sore after buying something in Australia?

:lol: Yeah, sometimes they use the small shaft. 8O

Oh thanks for that clip below. Thats what I'm talking about, the REAL deal, very nice indeed. 8O

Thanks, for you bud.

Oh my freakin gawd! Datman you make me really wish I wasn't at work. Another Asian woman too. Wonder if the wife would roleplay an Asian woman, shes the right height lol. Shes off today too......leave early? Choices choices. 8O

Thanks tho, those two clips are awesome, "real" women instead of plastic. Droolage

 

[mc2104dave]

Good Review.

I've got a bit of an 'older' system:
AMD 3200+ 939
1 GB RAM
9800 Pro AGP Graphics card

So I was really looking forward to this card coming out, heard rumors about it since the summer it seems!

Being in Canada, once this card was released, one of the interesting items I was thinking was ' PCI-e over AGP' ? Thankfully, a few of the 1st round reviews, confirmed my findings, current games, F.E.A.R Oblivion, etc PCI-E vs AGP is minimal advantage (3-5 fps!) only when media encoding and such to be a problem, i only use it for games, so wasn't seeing this as a big deal.
some other reviews of this card, and DO mention the PCI-E vs AGP:

http://www.neoseeker.com/resourcelink.html?rlid=143828
nvidia's new 7600 card (see PCI-E vs AGP)
http://www.firingsquad.com/hardware/xfx_geforce_7600_gt_agp_review/
http://www.firingsquad.com/hardware/powercolor_radeon_x1950_pro_agp_review/

The problem I see right now is that I also have a 939 cpu, so right now it's REALLY expensive to upgrade, as all the suppliers here are mostly AM2, so 939 is more of a challenge to find, and to goto AM2 means moving to PCI-E, oh, and DDR-2 ram, suddenly I have to buy a whole new system, which if i was buying today, I'd move back to intel's core 2 duo for the obvious reasons.

I picked up the sapphire 512MB 1950 Pro AGP for 320 (CDN) here, which i think is a reasonable price, and for me I found it worth it.

my 19" LCD is 1280x1024, so that also is my max resolution i want to play games on, I don't need 16x12, or other large resolutions.

Now such titles as FEAR and Oblivion are no problem, and i can easily max details.
Even the newest games, Clancy's rainbow 6 vegas - looks great, biggest issue i think is my CPU,

I'm thankful for this card, the 9800 PRO was decent, but this allows me to refresh my system, without replacing every component, so worth it in my books.

Very pleased with this card! Highly Recommend it!

 

[JustJack]

Excellant article.

I have an XP 2400+ based system with AGP4 that I'm going to put my 6800GT now that I've replaced it with the 1950 Pro.

It would have been nice to see something on the Gainward cards, however I agree they should be excluding due to the fact they are difficult to get and over priced. The 7900GT based version was over £250 when available though it did dip below for a small period. Even though the performance would be good it didn't justify the price.

Then 1950 Pro came along and even though I payed over the odds and have some teething problems I see it as a sound investment.

I'm not planning on jump on the DX10 bandwagon until 2008 by which time Vista 64 will be well supported and stable (I hope), true DX10 titles will be available and the second generation of cards will be available. Along with new Intel/AMD platforms - Quad and so on.

I'm looking forward to the rest of the articles.

 

[leop23]

I was wondering how would an athlonxp 1700 - athlonxp 2000 handle these new agp cards... i hope they could test it in part 4 hehe

 

[GrahamD]

I have an S754 Athlon64 3000 and was considering an AGP card upgrade (currently using 9700 pro). The trouble is, sooner or later I will want to upgrade the CPU and then the graphics card will be a wasted investment. In fact, I've found that I can get an S754 PCI-E motherboard that uses my old CPU and memory for around £25-£30. Since AGP cards are more expensive than their PCI-E equivalents, there's not much difference in price (AGP card vs PCI-E motherboard + card). That way, if I upgrade the CPU, I'll only ditch (or Ebay) a cheap motherboard and hopefully get a few more years out of the graphics card.

 

[chonga]

so would a 9700 pro be a significant boost in perofrmance for me?

my system now:
amd athlon 2600+
512mb pc2100 @266mhz
fx5500 128mb

i would just swap out the video card, not sure if it would be a big performance boost or not and if its worth the $60 upgrade (ebay).
and if it is a good boost, can i play half life 2, fear, and other newer games at low settings @ 1280x768??

 

[atp777]

HL2 would play, but not sure about FEAR.

 

[AgentJadeD]

I wouldnt mind also seeing Widescreen FPS results. As more and more people are moving to widescreen like myself. That just got a 21" HD Gateway FPD2185F for xmas. Moving from 1280x960 to 1680x1050. That way I know what card will be top gun and what wouldnt.

 

[atp777]

Not to stray from the topic AgentJadeD, but how is that ASRock 775 going for ya? I'm curious about that mobo because I'm thinking it would be a decent budget upgrade to my P4.

 

[Thorfkin]

Excellent writeup indeed

My system is pretty aged as well. Athlon XP1600+ (1.4ghz), 1.5ghz ram. Radeon 9600 Pro. Built it a little over 5 years ago Could use a new video card in it to make it more competitive till I can build a new machine

 

[sojrner]

so would a 9700 pro be a significant boost in perofrmance for me?

my system now:
amd athlon 2600+
512mb pc2100 @266mhz
fx5500 128mb

i would just swap out the video card, not sure if it would be a big performance boost or not and if its worth the $60 upgrade (ebay).
and if it is a good boost, can i play half life 2, fear, and other newer games at low settings @ 1280x768??

I have a 9700pro and know that hl2 screams on it (it was the target hardware for that engine in the beginning) but with fear you are limited to 1024x769 w/ settings on low and 800x600 w/ any effects on. Newer games will get even worse. If you read the article, the 9700 was only included as a reference for an older system, not intended as an upgrade path.

it stomps on the fx series, but any of the other cards listed in the article are better options. Heck, I would imagine that even a 7600GS would do better in current games than a 9700pro. (maybe not, but 7600GS would have better quality)

Don't get me wrong... I LOVE that card, but only b/c I bought it at the top of it's game and stuck with it for years... if I were buying any card today for an old agp system, the 7600GS would be minimum IMO.

 

[MAIA]

Excellent article! I do have the same exact system but a Barton 2800+, a 9800 pro and ram is on dual mode. I'm glad to see this "old guys" still hold some playable performance. I don't upgrade since 2003 because most games play very well ... as it seems

 

[MAIA]

so would a 9700 pro be a significant boost in perofrmance for me?

my system now:
amd athlon 2600+
512mb pc2100 @266mhz
fx5500 128mb

i would just swap out the video card, not sure if it would be a big performance boost or not and if its worth the $60 upgrade (ebay).
and if it is a good boost, can i play half life 2, fear, and other newer games at low settings @ 1280x768??

I do play fear @ 1024x768 with medium settings on my rig without any major slowdown. I bet if you switch off some pretty stuff, you can play it as well at your desired resolution.

 

[sojrner]

not with that much ram. 512 megs hurts performance alot on that game. My 9700pro system is a 2700+ (oc'd to 2.3 ghz) with a 1.5 gigs of pc333 ram and 1024 is only possible at those medium/low settings... if you go to 1280 you are gonna be hit hard. (incidentally I can hit 1024 with medium/high settings when I oc the card... so at that point 1280 might be possible)

 

[pamewan]

Good Review.

I've got a bit of an 'older' system:
AMD 3200+ 939
1 GB RAM
9800 Pro AGP Graphics card
...

Nice to see someone in a similar boat -- I've got almost the identical rig, except my CPU's only 3000. I patted myself on the back when I went in for a 939 thinking it was relatively future-proof; now it seems 939 was much more short-lived than I'd hoped .

I'm curious if, given the reveiwer's parting comment, even without an upgrade my 9800 Pro would be able to handle Oblivion?

Also, I've read a few times that AMD+Radeon make bad matches -- is that in any way accurate?

 

[MAIA]

Actually, Paul and myself discussed that. I didn't have time, but I wanted to OC the 2500+ to 3200+ and do a full benchmark run.

Just for interest's sake, I did overclock the CPU for a quick FEAR bench just to see, and it didn't make a notable difference.

I do have a Barton as well. I don't know if you can overclock it to 3200+ speeds that easily (from 1.82 to 2.16 i guess) due to its cache size. Smaller cache AthlonXP overclock much better because you don't need to feed them that much more Voltage to get there.

My 2800+ Barton is a locked 166Mhz FSB cpu, so is the 2500+ i think. Barton 3000+ and 3200+ are 200Mhz FSB cpu's. Nevertheless, at least my barton handles a 200Mhz FSB without any problem. That's where the trickery to raise up FSB unlocks a locked cpu , in fact you need to be careful with the multiplier after increasing the FSB

 

[MAIA]

not with that much ram. 512 megs hurts performance alot on that game. My 9700pro system is a 2700+ (oc'd to 2.3 ghz) with a 1.5 gigs of pc333 ram and 1024 is only possible at those medium/low settings... if you go to 1280 you are gonna be hit hard. (incidentally I can hit 1024 with medium/high settings when I oc the card... so at that point 1280 might be possible)

He stated he doesn't mind playing at lower settings. But anyway, your ram argument could be right, not due its size tough (i've played fear with 512mb) but due to its speed.

 

[MAIA]

Also, I've read a few times that AMD+Radeon make bad matches -- is that in any way accurate?

I don't think so... they even got maried and everything :lol:

 

[BGP_Spook]

... I would imagine that even a 7600GS would do better in current games than a 9700pro. (maybe not, but 7600GS would have better quality)
... if I were buying any card today for an old agp system, the 7600GS would be minimum IMO.

Most people agree the 7600GS is the minimum upgrade path for older tech; yet, it wasn't included. Seems to me it should have been a shoo in for the review.

 

[gomerpile]

pulling wires from panel to bedroom and back again. :twisted:

 

[sojrner]

not with that much ram. 512 megs hurts performance alot on that game. My 9700pro system is a 2700+ (oc'd to 2.3 ghz) with a 1.5 gigs of pc333 ram and 1024 is only possible at those medium/low settings... if you go to 1280 you are gonna be hit hard. (incidentally I can hit 1024 with medium/high settings when I oc the card... so at that point 1280 might be possible)

He stated he doesn't mind playing at lower settings. But anyway, your ram argument could be right, not due its size tough (i've played fear with 512mb) but due to its speed.

sure, speed is a huge factor.

I just know that when I was playing fear on that old system of mine that I could watch that game take up near 768 megs of ram during play. Including my system resource usage (background apps) I would easily jump over a gig of ram usage in gameplay. (dual monitors with rainmeter running on the second one showing the usage)

This is not to say you can't play it, just that performance is dropped significantly as everything is offloaded to the page file. This hurts load times as well.

But I was not meaning to argue... just bring up another point. The game needs hardware, and you can make do with old stuff. The older it is though the harder it gets.

 

[Reubonic]

I have a barton 2500+ oc to 3200+ with the fronside bus of 200mhz and it does just fine since I have a custom cpu fan for it. I'm waiting for these next tests as well since I have an a7n8x deluxe, 9800 pro, 2x512 corsair xms ram. I am also considering that sapphire x1950 pro 512mb agp card.

 

[celewign]

Frankly, I'm still impressed with the old-but-revolutionary Radeon 9700 PRO we used in these tests. Paired up with an Athlon XP 2500+, there wasn't a title the old girl couldn't play at 1024x768. The benchmark scores didn't look very impressive, but the card delivered playable performance, better than a lot of new cards like Radeon X300s or Geforce 6200s. Not bad for a card released 5 years ago.

Author = infatuated.
-cm

 

[MAIA]

But I was not meaning to argue... just bring up another point. The game needs hardware, and you can make do with old stuff. The older it is though the harder it gets.

Not meaning to argue as well.

Btw, good point