Question AIO Cooling or Air Cooling

[demidemon]

I asked something similar a while back but after reading around and talking with others, I've got some more questions on this topic. I'm really wanting to upgrade from my current PC to something newer, mine is about 3 years old but the problem for me just simply upgrading parts, is I'm going to have to swap out the motherboard anyway, so I might as well just redo the entire build at that point. I would also really love to stream but some of my games tend to eat the core up and I have no idea if that's just what will happen for the first couple matches or what is going on. Outside of reinstalling them to see if it fixes the issue, I'm not sure how to fix them to make it easier to stream. Those games was eating high 80% to nearly max on the CPU, sometimes RAM along with it.

Current PC specs are this, Intel Core i7-9700K, Nvidia GTX 1080-Ti (Gigabyte), Samsung 970 Pro NVMe PCIe M.2 512GB, WD WD6003FZBX-00K5WB0 6TB, G.SKILL Trident Z RGB DDR4 3200 C16 2x8GB, Asus ROG STRIX Z390-E GAMING. 750 Watt Gamdias ASTRAPE M1, AOC G2590FX x2 monitors. The CPU has a 240 AIO cooler on it. Barely breaks 60c when playing games, my video card can be anywhere from 60-76 and sometimes will reach 80+ depending on game and where I'm at. I try to drop resolution when it reaches those points to keep the heat down and off my legs. PC is currently sitting on my floor near my knees as that was the only place I had. I actually have two PCs but went to turn the old one on and it's not even coming on, so going to just put it into storage and maybe fix it later on. I think it's the PSU but it's not worth trying to fix.

Anyway, reason I bring this up is I was told at so me point that AIO coolers will actually make your room temperature go up. Is this true? I cannot really handle to much heat, my room has an AC but I'm also next to the kitchen, washer/drier and on the end of the house that happens to be the hottest. The new build I am currently toying with is Intel Core i9-12900KF (or i7-12700K), EVGA 3080 12GB FTW3 Ultra Gaming, Western Digital WDS100T1XHE 1TB (with heatsink), Samsung 870 QVO 4TB SSD, Corsair Vengeance Pro 32GB 3600 CL16, ASUS ROG Strix B660-A Gaming, Corsair RM (2021) 850W (considering going to a 1000w as build is predicted to be 720w), and keeping the two monitors I have while adding a MSI Optix MAG274WRF 27 inch monitor.

So the question, and what I'm trying to understand most, would air cooling work with this build or would I be better off going with AIO? I've been suggested the Deepcool AK620 68.99 CFM cooler and I'm also looking at a Corsair iCUE H150i Elite Capellix cooler to match the Corsair 4000x case. I'll probably change the cooler if I can find a different case but mainly stick with 3 fan AIOs if possible. The other thing is, I've heard that 3080s tend to get rather hot either way, I was considering also going with a AIO cooler on it to help. I'm not all that interested in a custom loop, I'm a bit worried about leaks, ect especially having a cat that loves to jump up on everything, been trying to stop her from doing that but she's extremely thick headed.

 

[Gam3r01]

AIO coolers dont produce more or less heat than an air cooler, all they do is vent the heat directly from the case instead of inside of it.
Your processor still produces the same amount of heat regardless of where you have it go, so either is fine.

As for your upgrade, you likely could get away with just the GPU upgrade, the 9700K still holds up fairly well these days, I dont see any specific reason to change out your entire system.

 

[Phaaze88]

Anyway, reason I bring this up is I was told at so me point that AIO coolers will actually make your room temperature go up. Is this true?

H-E-double hockey sticks-NO.
An AIO can let the user choose where the heat exchange happens(radiator), and there's more liquid in them. That's basically it; air coolers exchange heat near the center of most PCs, which it exhausts out the back.

The operating temperature is NOT why users' rooms warm up. It is total power used.
For example: If your 1080Ti makes your room uncomfortably hot within 30mins, and it's gaming away at 80C...
If you put it under custom loop - now it's gaming away at 50C... but 30mins later, you're back where you were, because it's still pulling around 300w, which is still being dispersed into your room.

my room has an AC but I'm also next to the kitchen,

That sucks. That's the hottest room in many households.

The new build I am currently toying with is Intel Core i9-12900KF (or i7-12700K), EVGA 3080 12GB FTW3 Ultra Gaming...

Uhh, YIKES... You didn't say exactly which Gigabyte 1080Ti, but between the ones listed HERE, they're between 300-375w Total Board Power.
The 3080 12GB FTW3 Ultra is 450w TBP...
So, from the gpu alone, power use looks to go up another 20-50%...



EDIT: Oops, almost missed this one:

So the question, and what I'm trying to understand most, would air cooling work with this build or would I be better off going with AIO?

Air cooling can work here. The 12900K does not run very hot in games. Anything harder on the cpu than that, and you can watch temperature take off; that cpu was basically designed with infinite turbo boost out of the box.

 

[demidemon]

AIO coolers dont produce more or less heat than an air cooler, all they do is vent the heat directly from the case instead of inside of it.
Your processor still produces the same amount of heat regardless of where you have it go, so either is fine.

As for your upgrade, you likely could get away with just the GPU upgrade, the 9700K still holds up fairly well these days, I dont see any specific reason to change out your entire system.

I can't upgrade my CPU at all cuz the motherboard is a z390. So I'm going to just upgrade the rest of it, cuz the games I was playing, there is no way I'd be able to stream and play those games at all. They was taking up most of my CPU and one game was even eating about the same amount in RAM.

So, I could use the AIO for CPU and GPU and be fine with it. They was saying it made the temperatures around the room even hotter than a air cooler. Glad I thought to ask again.

@Phaaze88

Yeah, I'm intending to put my PC up on the desk so it'll be like a foot or so from the AC so it'll draw all that cold air in too. Mainly, I want it away from my legs, I'm fine with it most times but sometimes it gets a bit warm against my legs.

It's the 3 fan 1080ti, white/orange color, model numbers on pcpartpicker are these two: GV-N108TGAMING OC-11GD/GV-N108TGAMING-OC-11GD

What about the 12700k CPU? I'm still really considering AIO. I play games like Ark Survival Evolved, CoD Black Ops Cold War/Warzone/Modern Warfare, Halo, ect.

 

[Gam3r01]

AIO coolers may make the room get up to temperature faster, since they vent the heat directly, but the overall ambient temperature will end up the same regardless.

Unless your processor is maxing out consistently (99%+) an upgrade wouldnt improve anything.
Same goes for RAM, unless you actively run out of memory having more available wont do anything for the system.

Its like swapping out a 5 gallon bucket for a 10 gallon bucket but you only need to move 4 gallons. Sure you have more headroom, but are you really going to benefit from that now?

Depending on your games, a faster GPU make take some of the load off the processor when gaming (higher graphics settings shifts the load from the CPU to the GPU).

 

[demidemon]

AIO coolers may make the room get up to temperature faster, since they vent the heat directly, but the overall ambient temperature will end up the same regardless.

Unless your processor is maxing out consistently (99%+) an upgrade wouldnt improve anything.
Same goes for RAM, unless you actively run out of memory having more available wont do anything for the system.

Its like swapping out a 5 gallon bucket for a 10 gallon bucket but you only need to move 4 gallons. Sure you have more headroom, but are you really going to benefit from that now?

Depending on your games, a faster GPU make take some of the load off the processor when gaming (higher graphics settings shifts the load from the CPU to the GPU).

Was at around 80-90+, so yeah, hopefully this helps. I have no idea what to do here, I'm going to have to swap some things out regardless. PSU is going to need upgraded, RAM is going to get doubled and case is going to need swapped again if I do it that way.

 

[Phaaze88]

It's the 3 fan 1080ti, white/orange color, model numbers on pcpartpicker are these two: GV-N108TGAMING OC-11GD/GV-N108TGAMING-OC-11GD

Oh, I have that same one. 300w BPL.
So yeah, your AC's going to have more work to do when that 3080 is in use.


12900K has infinite turbo, but that's not very useful in games, since their loads constantly change. The unlimited turbo is for certain all core apps - problem is, the core temperatures go absolutely bonkers(like 90-100C). Intel has said that such behavior is within spec.
Some users who purchased the cpu for that kind of work have put a leash on the cpu, via lower power limits, undervolting, lower clock ratios... they may as well have gotten a 12700K; more or less the same performance at that point, and easier to manage all core thermals.
You can game on either cpu just fine, but forget about that all core stuff on i9 - and no, that cpu can even make 360mm AIOs bend over under those all core loads.

Games typically don't see very high power use from cpus. The reason some cores can still get pretty warm in game is due to the gpu's heat passing through the cooler*, and some games utilizing AVX instructions.
[Front mounted cpu AIO avoids this, but not everyone views this orientation in a positive light.]

 

[demidemon]

Oh, I have that same one. 300w BPL.
So yeah, your AC's going to have more work to do when that 3080 is in use.


12900K has infinite turbo, but that's not very useful in games, since their loads constantly change. The unlimited turbo is for certain all core apps - problem is, the core temperatures go absolutely bonkers(like 90-100C). Intel has said that such behavior is within spec.
Some users who purchased the cpu for that kind of work have put a leash on the cpu, via lower power limits, undervolting, lower clock ratios... they may as well have gotten a 12700K; more or less the same performance at that point, and easier to manage all core thermals.
You can game on either cpu just fine, but forget about that all core stuff on i9 - and no, that cpu can even make 360mm AIOs bend over under those all core loads.

Games typically don't see very high power use from cpus. The reason some cores can still get pretty warm in game is due to the gpu's heat passing through the cooler*, and some games utilizing AVX instructions.
[Front mounted cpu AIO avoids this, but not everyone views this orientation in a positive light.]

So it would be better to actually go with the 12700k instead of the 12900K?

Most of my games stay within the 60-70 ranges or lower but some just... want to take all of it entirely. Just the ones I was considering also streaming when I got a chance, was sadly the ones seemingly eating all my CPU and RAM.

 

[Phaaze88]

Most of my games stay within the 60-70 ranges or lower but some just... want to take all of it entirely. Just the ones I was considering also streaming when I got a chance, was sadly the ones seemingly eating all my CPU and RAM.

That's a 9700K though. I've seen that Warzone can utilize up to 6 hyperthreaded cores - it's still bound by single core output - and 13GBs of ram. That kind of utilization from just the game is not common.
Then there's the streaming on top of that, but you have the option to use either cpu or gpu for that function.

So it would be better to actually go with the 12700k instead of the 12900K?

The 12900K is - IMO - a Tweaker's/Enthusiast's cpu. Undervolting, downclocking, overclocking, AVX offsets, power limits, Load Line Calibration... the majority of users do not play around with settings like those.
They put the hardware together, or get someone else to do it, and they expect it to just work. All those cores and their speed would attract a certain crowd wanting to use it for workstations.
They are not going to like how hot that cpu can run, while showing little sign of slowing down. They'll see it as a defect, replace it with another, only to see the same behavior, and either:
-try to replace the cpu(again), cooler, or the motherboard.
-refund.
-come to forums like this one and figure how to put a leash on it.
That's how I see it playing out.

TL;DR: 12900K is ok to game on. Just know that if you hit all the cores hard enough =
12700K is perfectly fine too - you'll just have an easier time playing around with it(if you want).

 

[demidemon]

That's a 9700K though. I've seen that Warzone can utilize up to 6 hyperthreaded cores - it's still bound by single core output - and 13GBs of ram. That kind of utilization from just the game is not common.
Then there's the streaming on top of that, but you have the option to use either cpu or gpu for that function.



The 12900K is - IMO - a Tweaker's/Enthusiast's cpu. Undervolting, downclocking, overclocking, AVX offsets, power limits, Load Line Calibration... the majority of users do not play around with settings like those.
They put the hardware together, or get someone else to do it, and they expect it to just work. All those cores and their speed would attract a certain crowd wanting to use it for workstations.
They are not going to like how hot that cpu can run, while showing little sign of slowing down. They'll see it as a defect, replace it with another, only to see the same behavior, and either:
-try to replace the cpu(again), cooler, or the motherboard.
-refund.
-come to forums like this one and figure how to put a leash on it.
That's how I see it playing out.

TL;DR: 12900K is ok to game on. Just know that if you hit all the cores hard enough =
12700K is perfectly fine too - you'll just have an easier time playing around with it(if you want).

I've never really overclocked or anything, mainly straight out of the box. I'm starting to lean towards that 12700k though and going back to my original AIO set up for both GPU/CPU and going from there. If I can find the GPU in that configuration anymore. EVGA seems to no longer stock the FTW3 AIO anymore.

 

[Phaaze88]

I've never really overclocked or anything, mainly straight out of the box. I'm starting to lean towards that 12700k though and going back to my original AIO set up for both GPU/CPU and going from there. If I can find the GPU in that configuration anymore. EVGA seems to no longer stock the FTW3 AIO anymore.

Well, the 3080 did launch almost 2 years ago and gpu AIO is under-represented.
Alphacool has Eiswolf 2s compatible with the 3080 FTW Ultra, but they use a 360mm rad and are not cheap.

 

[demidemon]

Well, the 3080 did launch almost 2 years ago and gpu AIO is under-represented.
Alphacool has Eiswolf 2s compatible with the 3080 FTW Ultra, but they use a 360mm rad and are not cheap.

I'm looking at getting a normal EVGA FTW3, getting the AIO water cooler and having someone install it. I've heard they tend to get hot and I'm aiming to run 1440p 165 or at least 144, so I presume it will get rather warm just from that. Unless EVGA suddenly restocks those cards, then that's the route I have to go.

 

[Phaaze88]

I've read that EVGA's FTW has one of the better engineered coolers out there; the core and memory don't get very hot, but the gpu still dumps some heat in the room like the rest of them.

 

[Eximo]

EVGA FTW3 has a sufficient cooler to take care of itself. "Normal"

Water cooling just means a little more Mhz and the capacity to use MORE power before temperatures become a concern.

Also, as an aside, water cooling can result in more heat output! Cooler the hardware runs, the more power they can pull. Not to mention that pumps don't run on magic, they take power as well. And large AIOs have 2 or 3 larger fans than the 2 or 3 smaller fans you would typically find on a GPU. Not a lot of extra power mind you, but some.

If you are sticking with the default power settings for your hardware, and they aren't running hot, then water cooling doesn't benefit you much. The CPU and GPU will boost a little more before the radiators have reached equilibrium. The potential exists for a water cooling setup to be quieter than an air cooling setup.

(Ignore my water cooled 3080 Ti. Nothing to see here)

 

[Phaaze88]

Hahahah...

 

[demidemon]

EVGA FTW3 has a sufficient cooler to take care of itself. "Normal"

Water cooling just means a little more Mhz and the capacity to use MORE power before temperatures become a concern.

Also, as an aside, water cooling can result in more heat output! Cooler the hardware runs, the more power they can pull. Not to mention that pumps don't run on magic, they take power as well. And large AIOs have 2 or 3 larger fans than the 2 or 3 smaller fans you would typically find on a GPU. Not a lot of extra power mind you, but some.

If you are sticking with the default power settings for your hardware, and they aren't running hot, then water cooling doesn't benefit you much. The CPU and GPU will boost a little more before the radiators have reached equilibrium. The potential exists for a water cooling setup to be quieter than an air cooling setup.

(Ignore my water cooled 3080 Ti. Nothing to see here)

Considering I'm literally between a fan and AC, I don't even hear my PC unless it's in the winter and I have the heater on. Even then, I sleep with a fan on so noise from a PC doesn't bother me one bit. I'm mainly not wanting to have high 70s to 80s while gaming, especially since my PC is literally at my knees currently.

@Phaaze88

Yeah, I'm totally fine with some. My 1080ti reaches anywhere around 70-76 most games, sometimes spiking into the 80s for a bit depending on games and what I'm doing. Red Woods on Ark make my card spike into the mid 80s if I'm there to long and I'd like to go with AIO to prevent that even on a 3080.