Question AIO Liquid cooler issues on pre-built PC

[Vovin]

Hey guys, so I acquired a new PC a few weeks ago. It's not exactly cutting-edge, but compared to my old 7+ year old PC it is generations ahead and overall it is great so far. However, there are a couple things that I feel were not optimized properly during manufacturer assembly. It's not practical to return anything, so I need to figure this stuff out for myself.

Specs:
Processor: i7-8700
Motherboard: Tuf H310M-PLUS
GPU: GTX 1060

I have some limited experience building/upgrading PCs, but I am by no means an expert. One brand new thing for me with this new PC was that it came with an AIO liquid cooler (Cooler Master ML120L). Compared to other new PCs I've seen, this thing is substantially louder, and sometimes the cooler would really ramp up significantly especially under load. It also makes a concerning water gurgling sound often. That being said, it is more than sufficient at doing its job as a cooler. Also note: I do have two fans at front of PC.

So I did some checking and apparently this specific AIO liquid cooler is on the cheaper-end; that being said, it is still supposed to be audibly silent. Further checking revealed that apparently you are supposed to do some specific bIOS configurations for this cooler after physically installing it to optimize it. Apparently, you should see both the rad fan and the water pump listed in bIOS, where you can play with their settings; the water pump particularly is supposed to be at 100% at all times.

So after a frustrating day of troubleshooting how to get into bIOS (which ended in having to just use an older TV just so I can see the bIOS screen to update it with flashstick), I got in. In there I only found two controls, which were for CPU-fan and chassis fan. Chassis fan appeared to control the rad fan, and after letting bIOS optimize it, it dramatically changed it for the better. As for the CPU-fan, I tried changing it to no noticeable effect. I just assumed that somehow this was the front fan control, although now that I think about it, could this have been the water pump control? I am curious because apparently this motherboard is specifically designed to have advanced controls for liquid coolers. And if this is the case, then why aren't the front fans showing up?

Second problem with the gurgling sounds seems to be air bubbles. Apparently this can be resolved with the air getting trapped in a reservoir, which I guess is in the rad. But I was looking at how the rad was installed and they oriented it so both the input and output hoses are at the top of the rad. If the air is supposed to be trapped in there, shouldn't the hoses be on the bottom of the rad so the air gets caught at the top of the u-bend inside of the rad? I tried looking up pics/vids of similar AIO liquid cooler installations and the hoses usually seem to be oriented at the bottom, but I have not found explicit confirmation that this is to trap the air. Only downside I see to this is that the hoses would pretty much be touching the GPU.

Third thought: I was considering maybe changing out this particular liquid cooler for a better quality one, such as the TUF version (which I guess is the same design but better construction and still RGB). Thoughts?

 

[tennis2]

If you open up the case and look at the motherboard, you'll be able to see which fan ports the pump and CPU fan are plugged into. The ports are typically labeled on the mobo itself, but you can also find a simplified diagram in your mobo manual. The ports will/should be labeled the same in the BIOS as they are on the board itself. You don't need to guess about what you're changing.

The gurgling sound is air bubbles. That happens when the system isn't full. You can try flipping the rad over so the hoses are on the bottom, but I doubt that will solve the problem. It's not abnormal for a little gurgling to happen when the system is turned on for the first time (ever) or even a short time each time you boot it up, but it shouldn't be gurgling frequently. If that's happening, I'd ask for a replacement AIO. That's not normal behavior.

I personally dislike AIOs (even though I have one in my main rig, albeit for space reasons). Especially 120mm ones. At that size, you're better off with a 120mm tower-style air cooler.

 

[geofelt]

I think you have done the proper analysis.
The i7-8700 can not be overclocked, consequently, it does not generate excessive heat.
If you want quieter cooling, buy a inexpensive tower type cooler with a 120mm fan.
They might be $35 or so.
My favorite is the scythe kotetsu, here is a review:
http://www.silentpcreview.com/article1391-page1.html
at the end there is a comparison with the ever popular cm hyper212 which I do not recommend.
It is difficult to install properly, even for an experienced builder.
The scythe kotetsu mark II would also be a good alternative.

 

[Vovin]

You're right, that stuff is easy to confirm. So I just took a look and I can see that the chassis fan is the rad fan, and that the CPU fan is the water pump. So that means I should set the CPU fan to 100% on bIOS to see if that improves anything. It gurgles like every 5-15mins. I tried tipping the PC around the other night and it made lots of gurgling noises, but then just reverted to the same occasional sound. I also hear old sounds like a harddrive boot up on random occasions, but I am not sure if that is actually the HDD itself (main drive is SSD). SSD is new tech for me too lol.

I was considering changing over to a fan heatsink, but the truth is that money is tight and that would mean having to order both a heatsink and new fan for the back. I also do like the AURA lighting arrangement so I would have to spend more on new parts to keep up with that.

As for sending back the liquid cooler, that can be a problem. I think the online store warranty means sending back the whole PC in the mail, which I am not going to do. And even if it was just the cooler, that means my PC would be inoperable after I take it out. So I'm kind of stuck with this cooler until I get a replacement anyway

 

[Vovin]

I think you have done the proper analysis.
The i7-8700 can not be overclocked, consequently, it does not generate excessive heat.
If you want quieter cooling, buy a inexpensive tower type cooler with a 120mm fan.
They might be $35 or so.
My favorite is the scythe kotetsu, here is a review:
http://www.silentpcreview.com/article1391-page1.html
at the end there is a comparison with the ever popular cm hyper212 which I do not recommend.
It is difficult to install properly, even for an experienced builder.
The scythe kotetsu mark II would also be a good alternative.

Looks reasonable.

Any recommendations for a 120mm rear fan that will hook up to the AURA LED lighting program?

EDIT: Sorry man, that brand of heatsink isn't distributed in Canada. On Amazon.ca, prices are between $80-200 for it, which I assume is because it is an import.

 

[ElectrO_90]

If you know the brand of the Watercooler, you should list it, make and model.
If you can easily unscrew the AIO and turn it around, then maybe you should do that to see if that will fix the gurgling noise, to which it should do.

 

[Vovin]

If you know the brand of the Watercooler, you should list it, make and model.
If you can easily unscrew the AIO and turn it around, then maybe you should do that to see if that will fix the gurgling noise, to which it should do.

It appears to be a Master Cooler ML120L Lite. I don't think it is necessarily defective, but rather just not installed properly.

 

[ElectrO_90]

Toms gave it a good review
https://www.tomshardware.co.uk/cooler-master-masterliquid-ml120l-rgb-cpu-cooler,review-34186-2.html

Maybe just do what most do, and mount it on the top?

 

[tennis2]

I think the proper orientation would be for the CPU fan to be on the CPU fan header, and the pump to be on a Chassis fan header. Generally the CPU fan header has the most/best controls over speed, so it's best to use that for the actual CPU fan. Might want to switch them (plus it's more logical to remember down the road).

If you bought a $20 CM Hyper 212 EVO, you could use the AIO fan in the rear fan mount of the case. Therefore, no need to buy an additional fan.

If your system has an HDD in addition to the SSD, yes, you'll hear it spin up when it comes out of sleep or during cold boot, and you'll hear it clatter away if/when it's being accessed. That's normal.

Technically Cooler Master is the warranty (2 years) provider in this situation. I wonder if you'd get anywhere with them....

 

[Karadjgne]

Yes and no.

The cpu_fan header is dedicated pwm. What this means is there's a constant 12v, changing bios settings doesn't change that, only the pwm signal from the 4th wire. The pump is 3pin. Any 3pin added to a pwm header will always run at 12v.

The pump itself is not a variable speed pump, it should always be at 12v max rpm.

The cpu has certain protections hardwired into it, things like over-temp throttling etc. It also has 0rpm shutdowns. If for any reason, the cpu_fan header sees a value of 0rpm or is not populated, the cpu will shutdown to prevent damage. With an AIO pump on the cpu_fan header, if the pump fails, the header reads 0 rpm, the cpu shuts down. That's the theory anyways. And that's what Corsair, CM and any other basic AIO manual will tell you is the correct way to install it.

Life's sometimes backwards. If you want the AIO'S fan to respond to cpu temps, stick it in the cpu_fan header, put the pump on any sys_fan or cha_fan header, go into bios and stick that sys/cha_fan header on 100% duty cycle, or use cpu_opt/aux headers (12v usually not controlled). Either way works.

Air bubbles are easy to get rid of. Turn on the pc, then slowly tilt the whole thing (either forwards or backwards until the radiator is directly above the pump. Air will naturally go to the highest point, that being the radiator. Once the bubbles stop, tilt it back normal. Hose orientation isn't a factor, the input goes to a tube through the radiator, to the reservoir and the output port. Air will stay in the reservoir unless it's allowed down the tubes during motion (like sticking the pc on its side in the trunk of a car) and it's easy to re-prime the pump. The only other exception is if the coolant level is too low, it has a hard time escaping the reservoir and temps go way up.

 

[Vovin]

That's good to know about the pump speed always being on full. If that's the case, then it seems like the only loud thing in this PC is the fan on the radiator (which certainly gets significantly louder when speed is increased).

However, I don't think your totally correct on the AIO orientation. From the best diagrams that I have seen so far, including the info from the Cooler Master website, there doesn't seem to be a reservoir anywhere in its design. Really, it's just the water pump part on the processor, the two tubes, and the radiator. I thought that the radiator may have a reservoir, but I have not seen any schematic depicting this.

The only thing resembling an internal diagram I have seen is on the CM site page where it shows a simple U line through the radiator, where the ends are where the input and output connect. This is why I suspect that it cannot trap air bubbles when it is oriented with the tubes at the top, because the air doesn't really have anywhere to go except through the tubes. In the manual on the CM site page, which itself is devoid of much information, there is one image that shows the radiator piece installed with the tubes at the bottom. That would mean that, if it is a U-shape tube inside of the radiator, then there would be a spot in the middle of the U to get trapped (if it were oriented upside down). So it all depends on whether or not that really is the internal layout of the rad.

Or at least that makes sense to me. I used to have a large aquarium where I was basically doing the opposite: air hoses oriented in water, where you did NOT want water to go through the tubes into the air pumps.

 

[gamerbrehdy]

So I installed a 240mm rad AIO as well, and after full installation, I noticed some gurgling as well. This went away after I ran it for a while.

Also, did you plug a SATA cable into the pump? If so, the pump will always run at 100% speed, since that SATA connection can't be controlled.

I installed my rad at the front of my case, with the hoses sticking out at the top. Works great, and has no issues.