AMD and Intel General Discussion (not for getting help)

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Hiya,

I actually do not even game although bought a few to try but just no time! I just keep up on all the parts and build plus OC and fine tune Systems for "Rich Gamers"! Last one was at least 6 months ago a $5950 build shipped! These guys want the best of everything he even had to have a Blu Ray Burner which was expensive then! I use a 300GB VelociRaptor in all mine plus a 2nd big D: drive fordownloades etc., he had to have 2 of those toin Raid 0 and Dual HD4870X2 Cards too.

Too much info I guess!! I am replacing my own builds now after I finish 2 Christmas Presents for my Mom and one of my Sons, those will be cheaper Phenom I 9950s with an HD4850X2 in smaller Wave Master Cases and only 750 watts. But like you said even thy will run most games and are pretty fast especially for my Mom!!

My Question is am I missing anything or should I wait, maybe building the AMD 955 BE to upgrade later?? The Intel I've still got the Case and 1600 PSUs in the Box, I do run the "Build Ad" partly to warn people about the HD5970 cards as so many like myself are awaiting them to arrive, then they are and reviews even are jamming that 12+ inch card moving hard drive cages etc.

(There's also power confusion as they at 725/4000 are just on a highish idle and is the first true Black Edition, able to be OC'd "unofficially" to incredile speeds. This requires incredible power if want option to run 2 of those.)

I don't sell the Silverstone TJ-10 except as part of builds, but it is one of the few Cases able to handle that Video Card Length. It has 13.5 inches of space which allows at least and inch for the large air intakes that cover those card's ends. Reviewers are also not advising MBs with the PCI E slots far apart, both issues can really cause air flow problems and make them run too hot.

For myself I will likely finish the AMD 955 BE Quad Build and upgrade it longer, the other one let sit until Intel comes out with a better CPU.

Mine are for Evaluation not just use so mine are Extremes so I can also answer questions plus run benchmarks with Video Cards, I was going to use a SSD drive on the next Intel Build.

I'm want opinions of QX9770 vs a i7 975 Extreme too, the QX9770 was/is an incredible Quad CPU still on ebay but costly I'm reluctant to say the 975 is even better. Intel even admitted 900 models have a true limit of DDR3 1066 Ram, and the QX9770 runs easily on Aftermarket air at 4Ghz!
 
The i7 975 will crush the QX9770 in any task that can use more than 4 threads, even if the QX9770 has a clock speed advantage. Up to 4 threads the difference is much more marginal, but for the price of a QX9770, it's hardly worth buying since LGA775 is not getting any more high end chips.
 


I find it funny too how now ATI plans a 5970, dual GPU 5800 series yet their yields suck.

Maybe 28nms will be better.... or maybe not.

TSMC seems to have rushed 40nm with at first having horrible heat issues and now low yields. Ouch.

Oh wells.
 


Plus thanks to QPI in the Core i7 975, the memory no longer limits the overclocking like it did in a QX9770. It helps boost its memory bandwidth if you can get say 133MHz DDR3 but it already has incredible memory bandwidth thats useless in OCing.

In fact most 975s can hit 4GHz on air as can a Core i7 920.....
 


Meh, it's a lame excuse to gain the perf crown and sell chips for more.
 



Hiya,

Guess the question not clear enough although I thought this area was for non specific builds? I am building 5 PCs counting the QX9770 already done. And using for myself and evaluations 3, the extra 2 are Christmas Presents for my Mom and one of my Sons. These are Phenom 9950 Quads with HD4850X2 Cards in Wave Master Cases and 750 watts & I need no advice on these.

The not completed 2 of the 3 for my use and Evaluation (occasionally wiped clean and sold to a Customer in a hurry but that's very rare), all those 3 and Customer builds use SilverStone TJ-10 Cases with ATX Enhanced Ultra X3 1600 watts. Greatest Case in my opinion for Gaming and Workstations! Very deep with incredible cooling, also 13.5 inches for Video Cards, and that's with mounts for both ends there for a few Video Editing/CADCAM Pro cards.

Depth of 13.5" makes them ideal for the 12.4" HD5970s with End Air intakes

The QX9770 is an incredible CPU but all reviews seem to agree including Intel that the 975 is as much as 40% faster so with a bit less OC effect (due to Turbo) I still would say it's nearest 135% of the QX9770.

My Question was should I build either of the 2 "Evaluation Builds" (one Intel and one AMD), I need one within 2 months as I am a Tax Expert and like to keep those programs. Turbo Tax Programs and all the results backed up even more carefully on a different PC which will likely be this QX9770 build.

A 35% increase is hardly "crushing" and 35% is not a big enough increase for a new build, and like I sold off the 975 and Gut parts already so it will likely be an AMD 965BE(955BE but same if OC'd) Quad. I bought and the parts were so cheap hardly worth selling like the 975 parts were! Would let me see how it feels vs the QX9770 for at least 6 months before anything new from AMD is released. My Case/PSU/VelociRaptor setups are reused so a new Mobo CPU and if need Ram is all I change. Video Cards are seperate upgrades and often benchmarked in each PC Single and Dual Card then sold off again.

Mostly AMD Cards but the GT300 Fermi may need it if not a fortune!
(I've have had 2 HD5970 Sapphires PreOrdered at Amazon also costly, they still say after Christmas not even a date listed yet.)

Although I plan to try an SSD drive vs a VelociRaptor in the next Intel build.

Many of my questions I guess I've answered partly but I am still wondering mainly what others of you are hearing about new CPUs specs and about when the next worthwhile releases are??

Personally I hear the Intel 32nm 975 is shrink, likely next in pure CPUs and it may not be worthwhile? I see an awful lot saying they'll wait for the Sandy "something", on the AMD side I read a 32nm Fusion is not that far off too.

Any comments and mainly on future products not as much on current ones.

Thanks, Dane
 



I'd agree IF we had anyone who knows what they are doing in DC! Basically we have or already had a zillion programs all with the true result of holding back the recovery and killing jobs, and maybe sending us back into another deeper one!! Thought - He might make a halfway decent dog catcher!

Small Businesses = Rich People on Tax Filings since almost all who had been hiring DO NOT file as Corps but rather just using a C form which is what I use for my Ebay/Building too!! They look rich so we're killing hose people in every new program, and everyone but those who would be soon hiring also seem to "Forget" That the Biggest Tax Increase in History is going to hit every one soon and especially those that would normally be soon hiring again!!

Those are are So Called Bush Tax Cuts that Quickly recovered us from a Potentialy Even Deeper Resession after 9/11 ! The Congression and Whitehouse Clowns never say anything about the fact that those very succesful Tax Cuts Expire soon unless renewed! But those who'd normally hire know it is coming believe me! Once the Clown was elected those had even less chance of being renewed as so Called Global Warning has of not being exposed as the Biggest WorldWide Hoax in History!

Hopefully the Current 2000 page fiasco won't pass and then then Cap n Tax hopefully won't pass either! Both will kill even more jobs and any recovery too, all these hang over all potential hiring plans like a big threatening Axe!!
 


At the moment the top CPU on Intel's roadmap would be the i9 6-core Westmere 32nm CPU, probably priced around $1K. It should drop into any 1366 socket with a BIOS flash.

Sandy Bridge should be sampling in the next 6 months and out this time next year. I haven't paid much attention to it so I dunno what architectural changes it's supposed to incorporate...
 
Stocks fall on Dubai debt worries

Just a year after the global downturn derailed Dubai's explosive growth, the emirate is now so swamped in debt that it's asking for a six-month reprieve on paying its bills. Its main development engine, Dubai World, has said it would ask creditors for a "standstill" on paying back its $60 billion debt until at least May, news that roiled markets worldwide.

Since Dubai is part of the UAE, I wonder how this is gonna affect ATIC & GF??
 




Robin Hood I wish I had any money at all (I use 50% of my ebay profits so this is years worth), I should be wealthy as I am approaching 33 yrs Management Service at Caterpillar Inc.. With a BS and MS in Engineering I should be in 6 figures long ago, but they found a way in 1995 to put me in the Management Disability Plan. I get 75% of the average I made the last full 5 years which is not much now. Also I built a huge house with 30 yr fixed 5 1/4 when they were creating the "bubble", I did it on purpose in still fast growing area since in 2018 my current $40000 goes to almost nothing. It'll be like if I retired at age 37 plus lost 40% of that divorcing the witch (of course living that long is unheard of so far) So I view this house as an investment that hopefully a reverse mortgage will save me, my house has doubled in value already so there is a chance I guess but depends if the dollar goes wacko.

I worked last in early 1990s, which was $52,500 a lot in the 1990 time frame, and why I say I'd be in 6 figures now, but they use the 1990 ADA LAW to not now allow me to return to work! They say a Paraplegic is 100% Disabled by the definition of many new laws so can not return? I was hurt in 1970 at age 16 so was hired as I am now and worked 16 years as a ParaPlegic, then stuck in a Plan and am not allowed out. I even took them to Federal Court beginning in Dec 2008 and almost made it to trial, but they finally found a timing snag (too many days from the EEOC filing until something else happened, I'm not a lawyer so not even sure what they meant really and had to file under "Poper" status so there would be no fees and could not afford a lawyer so filed Pro Se acting as my own attorney). 75% of $52,500 is not much now especially with Medical Costs I still pay including large deductables. 40 years is a long time for a Para to live, if you recall when "Superman"died they said his 9 years was more than the normal 7 years, in same Doctor Tables I live 23 years. But I plan to ruin the book and live forever *LOL*

(BTW they have insured at 10 million 1 program I wrote, I justified installed and managed the Engrg Computer Systems in the early 1980s and even later I worked in Market Research of Sales doing the Economic Forecasting and creating programs using Lotus to prepare complex Sales Reports. So I was never a token Disabled Employee that many Corps have now.)

Please refrain from asking questions unless I left something big out, so I will put where it is now. I'd have to file an appeal or another case. And from my experience in that filing I know nothing will really happen until the top level Staff at CAT know about this which only HR and now a few in the Legal Dept know about. So unless you are a lawyer who can work for free, or know a way to get on a large enough venue that CAT Staff would hear that I was on it! (For example Today, Oprah or?) CAT is a Great Company I used to have lunch with our Div Pres that became the Pres & CEO about 10 years ago but retired 5 years ago. Point being I've dealt with the previous Top Management and know if they knew about me they'd fire quite a few people! But they don't know about it or me anymore (Ask a friend if never been in a Multi National Corp of 70,000 plus how many layers there are to get through to a decision maker) so a public program appearance is needed, and even if never showed when asked for a response they might fix things.

Sorry but I guess it did sound like I had lots of money. I also buy my parts cheap on ebay reselling most overseas where they pay more. I paid $660 for my 975 and sold since got almost $900. If at a Store I've paid a fortune.
 


Hmm, Dubai asked for a 6-month extension on the repayment due dates, so it's more than a couple of months...

Sorta puts the lie to the theory that the UAE is impervious to the world economy, which was advanced here on THG last year 😀. I'm too lazy to go look up the threads but IIRC several people here kept saying that the worsening economy would hurt Intel the most, whereas the UAE with their oil & other trillions would easily ride out the storm.
 
Well, dont know the numbers, and wont look them up, but 60 is like 1.25, the difference is, they can ask to wait on the 60, whereas Intel couldnt on the 1.25.
Could they pay it?
Certainly, but this is obviously termed and worded wrong overall.
Youre connecting a government with ATIC, as well as GF, as well as the city has debts, but each is its own company, construction, restruants, buildings etc. with 1 backer essentually, which, could pay it off, but its not as simple as some would believe, you know this I know this, but simplifying things are usually done from things like AMDZone, especially when it comes to discrediting, wouldnt you agree?
 
^ And that was the point I was making a year ago :). Even the UAE is not impervious to the world economy, and during hard times they have to prioritize where they put their $$. IIRC the UAE gov't is the major stockholder in ATIC and hence GF.

The oversimplifying was done by those "UAE cannot fail" posters as the reason why GF (and AMD by proxy) would never go bankrupt, and in fact the downturn was an opportunity to grab market share from Intel who would be hurt by the economy.

If necessary I can go dig up those 6 - 12 month old threads to prove my point! 😀
 
I think the context, at least from my position, was on oil.
Yes, itd be affected, but being as its a necessity, not like Intel or any other company, and that, with adding in other companies such as being done here is not what the point ever was.
Oil revenues would certainly handle this, but again, thats not how business is done.
Being disengenuous as that article is, or leads to, isnt the way business works.
People can keep their old Intel cpus, but they have to buy gas to work, heat their housw etc, as well as their work requires it also.
 



(I see this forum seems winding down or I'd not post this here, Dane)

1st no problem and I'm new so forgive my over reaction and mainly PLEASE ALL OF YOU TRY TO NEVER feel different now that while explaining my finiancial position had to semi- blame-expose it on being paralyzed and revealed that too. The LAST thing I'd want to do is stop curiousity questions which are PERFECTLY FINE! I find most to many folks have a friend or relative in a similar position who wonder and yet are afraid to ask etc, my best advise is to treat them exactly the same unless they ask for help! It's hard to do I hear but my advise is try hard! Also if you and others really want to help them go study what they can and can not do with Google to become free again!! Note that Doctors are very often wrong!! I still recall the first Doctor who the night (May 2nd 1970) of my accident telling my parents like it was a rigid fact and treating
me like I wasn't even there that I could never have children marry or love and live a norrmal life? I assume this also soon got to my 2 sisters and 3 brothers too.

I fathered a child in College for an impotent Canadian Couple, later married and have two biological sons 28 an 25 (who I am still trying to get the 28 yr old to move here maybe both!)

Yes being Paralyzed is hard sometimes but not able to live "free" is infinitely worse!! Despite in a money tight family Dad let me since BVR was said they'd pay for College use some of the "Hog" College Profits and I had my first Car with Hand Controls before I returned for my Senior year that Fall (Not all generosity there was no way to and from School back then!) And it turned out great to share the driving when we went to a few Colleges and back non stop. Just as as you recall there is no real freedom until we can drive as teenagers it's the same for a Paraplegic and others. Driving them around may be the only option for most high level Quads but all I can say is if possible try!! Even now for me to live alone still when I want and be able to drive and still be free is far harder and more costly than other options but as long as I can find a way to remain still "free" I will do so!

My biggest new problem now and for any Para at 40 years injured (It's time injured not true age that seems to best measure years.) is my arms and especially shoulders. Which "hit a wall" around 2 years ago both my shoulder rotator cuffs tore badly and are not operable due to so much joint wear. Not a total surprise as my back surgeon X rayed my sore shoulders first in 1990 and was ordered to end my 17 yrs of being the point guard in WC BB, he said my shoulder joints already looked like those of an 85 yr olds mans would!!

So I went overboard before asking for no questions! That's the exact opposite of how I've tried to live my life since 1970, I've always done my best to show through my daily actions etc (Even answering little kids questoins in the grocery mainly) that I'm a normal man in most things just not able to walk anymore, I've few regrets and even those are silly.

I'd attended a huge school with a class size of well over 400 each, I lived on a farm so was not close enough to the Town to be in on Social Events plus we had "groups" too and I was shy back then! I'd always been thought of as what was called "brown nosed" not that I acted that way but I did led my class in GPA until the injury when was still rehabbing and dropped to 2nd.

I lifted weights at home and since age 12 had handles 100lb feed bags to refill feeder for several hundred Hogs at least twice a day (And shoveled then spread the "leftovers" *LOL*), I went out for wrestling as a Freshman and got to know many of our Football team who played both Sports. I didn't have time due to other farming during the months of Football but 2 younger brothers finally had become strong enough between the two to help with the Hogs the Fall of 1970. I was already out of season practicing with the 1st string for that Spring and 2 of us were already learning dual running back plays before the accident, I always wondered what would have happened? A Silly thing I guess plus I never (especially slow) danced with a girl too, other than later WC Dancing with a Gal in on my lap spinning in "wheelie" never the same thing though.

My Dad researched Univs back then and 40 yrs ago it was different and the U of I at Champaign-Urbana was the only with any ramps even attempted back then, amazingly the BVR in Ohio was very glad to pay to send me out of State as long as I was studying to be an Engineer! I guess they could brag about it at meetings (They even helped pay part of Grad School!), I played WC Sports mostly track and BB but Football and others too including marathons.etc.





I wrote the below them almost erased several times, but it all needs to be talked about and not by just politcal interested people only! Those who know computers have to think more logically! Not be blind to whats happening or may be or will soon! Plus the 60 Billion Oil Country's request is what we'll have to do except on a number of 12 Trillion!


(Even if you at least just copy n print either the above and or below and at least think about it yourself, or better after thinking about it with freinds and or Family!)


Sorry his is not a CPU Question but likely more important and is a along the 60B only far closer to home! I'd guess the age range here from 16 to 56, one question I do have and it is: Is there any time we should pause or even stop having New Goals especially new ones that Likely seem Nuts at any age? I think I could "use" being in a normally "Socialist Grouping" to get fair coverage by the Left and Press, if I ran for President. Of course then there's the other group of thought that if more TV Eisenhower would never have been elected!

I love it here in what's called East Texas, and yet I like most of you (at least I hope anyway) feel how close to something close to a 2nd Revolution we are now. Not shots fired but in some way ending up in a 2nd Constitutional Convention to take our Country back! This will happen IF one of the Crazier Bills Gets passed, States have the right to refuse to follow laws Congress passes so this is about the most likely way it would happen. I think it's 40 States needed but correct me if I'm wrong, this would quickly slide into a 2nd Convention and widely desired by most Texans althouth I've only been here from Ohio now 5 years I fit in!

What would happen in a 2nd Convention is hard to say but basically about the same as what a Constitutional Candidate for Pres and all of Congress House and Senate would do, or rather undo 50 years of progressive programs lower our standards of lower but heading is back to a balanced budget likely a rolling average over 10 yr periods, Not unworkable annual like most States.

No matter what something is going to happen!

We HAVE TO STOP the current ideal of too many in DC! Fortunately so far the Senate D Moderates are stalling many Bills with the goal of collapsing our Economy so we have to join some Marxist Global Economy and Gov't. A total disaster but most progressives actually want it?, But I don't think Russia China India and smaller others would go along. "We needed to end the UN long ago," Why do EU Countries want the Clown and Clown Congress to go along?? Simple they need the US Military Power to offset Russia China!!

"Danger Will Robinson!" What TV show did the Robot say that on?


(Nato Power has also become a joke except the UK and they are Declining)


I had a new idea last Friday it even shocked a Tea Party member with what's actually a great idea for the USA at least! *LOL* I was only half serious at first but seems a better option vs the rest of them!!! For almost 100 years now since WWI the USA has come in asked and Always Needed to first make sure the right side wins and more and more expected us to be to be the Worldwide Police! Not just fighting but also rebuilding too, and never repaid as I recall??

What I told my friend was what could a decent President with a House and Senate both also ready to abolish a crapload of laws! But fixing it all and keep Space and Defense and a reduced SS an Honest Medicare likely even make Space and Military much larger and stronger like people say we are so far into debt already repaying it is really impossible!

We could send out Invoices for WWI thru Today for Wars, War Food and Part Support even to Russia and China!! (I bet 90% or more of the people do not even know we not only helped England but we sent planes food and other equipment to both Russia and China before and after we joined the War) But do you think we'd get anything back? Yea around the time Pigs Fly!! *LOL*

What I told him after we remove a lot laws and amend the Constitution to make it an Auto Crime not to follow it this time! But then figure what we can actually afford as far as our 12 Trillion Debt and unfunded promises!

Announce we are going back on the Gold Standard which we never should've left! But do it in secret for once and then as we issue our now Gold or Gold and Silver based Currency we stop worrying who likes us and then set the exchange rate where needed! World Wars and Rebuilding, Policing the World and the rest caused by currency games like China now and others before!

Who knows what we'd decide to use lets say for example 10 to 1, meaning each Country's 100 Billion of current USA Currency we exchange it for 10 Billion of our new Currency! I'm not sure how internal USA owned money and money loaned would change, but I'd assume the amounts would be adjusted to the new currency if a held by other Counties or Corps and Residents too.

The only reason we could do that is no one's military is close to ours, besides if I was China less holdings of a stable currency might be seen as not ideal but at least inflation is not going to eventually make the old currency worthless! What happens and how so fast can we exchange all the current currency and of course 1 to 1 if a Citizen! All new change I'd also assime?
An advantage also would making the new currency as close to impossible to make able to counterfeit!

Sounds nuts in ways but we have to something like that and at the same time make it so everyone has total confidence in the new USA Currency, which would be the new laws and backed by Gold!
 
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