News AMD Confirms Ryzen 7 5800X3D Is Not Overclockable

[-Fran-]

Sorry but that doesn’t answer it. It doesn’t matter what any other cpu does. If I am paying X and I know I will get Y performance I can make a decision based on that, overclocking does not change this.

I have a 3700X and I use PBO. However if I can get a 5800X3D and benchmarks show it has an average 30% performance improvement in my use case then that’s all I need to know. As long as I know what I am getting beforehand and can compare to what I have now I really don’t see the problem.

What do you mean it doesn't answer it? XD

That is the whole point of PBO and other "self-OC" mechanisms: hassle free OC. It's not so much as to say that you can't tweak further with the CPU if you don't want to use PBO, which is now more a hassle than actual important thing to do (like in ye ol' days) IMO. If the 5800X3D is going to cap or have a locked 1.35v CPU delivery, it means it won't boost as far and as high as as normal 5800X does now when it's not thermally constrained (and this is IMPORTANT). Whatever delta you have over a 3700X you have will be almost negligible between going for a 5800X or a 5800X3D; that's the point. It's not so much about the incapability of the person itself not being able to tweak, but the CPU itself will be capped from going higher by any means; automatic or manual.

Answer me this: what cooling solution do you have with your 3700X?

Regards.

 

[sizzling]

.

Answer me this: what cooling solution do you have with your 3700X?

Regards.

It doesn’t matter what the limiting factor is, as long as you can accurately measure the performance with benchmarks and reviews you know what performance you are getting for your money. Most good reviews of many prior AM4 CPU’s included PBO on or off data points so it should be fairly easy to see how this stacks up against them. The fact I cannot switch on a feature or overclock and squeeze out an extra few % is fairly irrelevant unless the fun of overclocking is important. I just need to see good benchmarks to see if it is worth the price tag.

As for cooling my 3700X, I have a Corsair H150i Elite Capellix. Over the top yes, runs whisper quiet, looks good and managed to pick up for £95 (over 40% off).

 

[hotaru251]

As long as the performance is right why does overclocking matter apart from the ‘fun’ aspect?

Ryzen OC isnt "fun" (that why OC ppl tend to stick to Intel) as theres hard limits pretty early.

its more than the 5800x but slower unless you benefit from the cache (spoiler thats not gonna happen all time) meaning its actually worse than a stock 5800x (let alone oc'd one)

 

[sizzling]

.

its more than the 5800x but slower unless you benefit from the cache (spoiler thats not gonna happen all time) meaning its actually worse than a stock 5800x (let alone oc'd one)

I have no problem with this. If it turns out to be a bad price/performance or it falls behind the 5800X (PBO on/off or overclocked) in some benchmarks then so be it. This has nothing to do with the 5800X3D overclocking being an option though. There is a possibility that the 5800X3D does live up to AMD’s claims and can recapture the gaming thrown without needing to be overclocked. Then again it might not.

 

[dutty handz]

So AMD pulled a MS.... "we tell you how to use it" mentality.

let ppl have choice to do so.

put a [not recommended] notice but still let ppl do it if they want.

So you're the reason why the put a "Do not use in the shower" warning on hair dryers...

 

[-Fran-]

It doesn’t matter what the limiting factor is, as long as you can accurately measure the performance with benchmarks and reviews you know what performance you are getting for your money. Most good reviews of many prior AM4 CPU’s included PBO on or off data points so it should be fairly easy to see how this stacks up against them. The fact I cannot switch on a feature or overclock and squeeze out an extra few % is fairly irrelevant unless the fun of overclocking is important. I just need to see good benchmarks to see if it is worth the price tag.

As for cooling my 3700X, I have a Corsair H150i Elite Capellix. Over the top yes, runs whisper quiet, looks good and managed to pick up for £95 (over 40% off).

Most reviews can't take OC into account realistically in their metrics, because it's a very "luck" dependent thing. That is* completely understandable. Also, not all motherboards support the same amount of features for OC'ing either. What most reviews give you is a "performance floor" that you should expect. Tom's and a few others go the extra mile and show PBO for some specific cases and others do OC exploration (der8auer and buildzoid). What you see in the PBO is* exactly that gap I'm talking about. The 5800X3D won't have that extra room, so you will only get the "performance floor" with no way to increase it. Well, not as easily as just enabling PBO or whatever else the motherboard has for OC. That is a loss in performance for anyone with the right conditions to extract that extra performance from their CPUs. I don't think it's that hard to understand.

You have an overkill AIO for the 3700X, so under PBO it can boost really well. My 3800XT goes all-core 4.6Ghz at ~1.35v and single at 4.8Ghz at 1.49v. It's as close as a golden sample as I'll get and I'm happy with that. It doesn't go over 75°c under stress which is great. And I have an Arctic Freezer 240 AIO on it (swapped it from the NH-D15 to just compare). If I were to upgrade to a 5800X, I'm almost certain I'd be able to close the gap between it and the 5800X3D to the point where it makes the 3D version completely pointless. Alas, that will come down to the benchmarks, because, as you said, since I won't have the option/capability to OC the 3D version, it will mean what I see in the reviews is exactly what I'll get (with some delta due to RAM and such). Hell, I'm even doubting it'll be a big enough gap to justify upgrading from the 3800XT I have. I may as well just grab a 5800X while they're getting rid of it everywhere XD

Regards.

 

[Papusan]

I wonder why people should upgrade to this over an 5800X who is an unlocked chips. On top more expensive.

 

[sizzling]

I wonder why people should upgrade to this over an 5800X who is an unlocked chips. On top more expensive.

Let’s see what the benchmarks show. AMD are claiming it will be the faster gaming cpu on the market which would mean it needs to outperform the 12700k/12900k which are about 10% ahead of a 5800X. Now I’m not saying it will do this, just that was the claim.

 

[InvalidError]

I wonder why people should upgrade to this over an 5800X who is an unlocked chips. On top more expensive.

Plenty of people don't care about overclocking. I'm more interested in absolute stability and long-term reliability.

 

[Papusan]

Let’s see what the benchmarks show. AMD are claiming it will be the faster gaming cpu on the market which would mean it needs to outperform the 12700k/12900k which are about 10% ahead of a 5800X. Now I’m not saying it will do this, just that was the claim.

Yep, a specialized chips mostly for gaming. Also Nvidia made an special SKU for mining. Outside this, a waste of silicon. AMD should never ever branded this chips with the X moniker. They should instead have branded it Ryzen 7 58003DG so people can see what they get.

Plenty of people don't care about overclocking. I'm more interested in absolute stability and long-term reliability.

No need to buy an special chips for that. You mean max stability in games? Because this is an pure gaming chips. What is the next? Ryzen 7 5800XC for creator chips?

 

[InvalidError]

No need to buy an special chips for that. You mean max stability in games?

I mean stability all-around. The only crashes I have ever had on my i5-3470 were from not rebooting after updating Nvidia drivers and I run my PC for 2-4 months at a time between Windows updates.

 

[cryoburner]

my problem with this is that it's not just 200mhz off the top frequency vs 5800x

5800x is cheaper & easily gets to 4.9-5.0 with PBO

so you're looking at 500mhz freq difference; too big of a gap for games that don't care about cache size

A 500MHz difference? Maybe in a best-case scenario single-threaded workload. That's not likely to be the norm for multithreaded workloads though, where the clock rate differences will probably be closer. We don't even know for sure what multi-core boost clocks will be like on the 5800X3D though. For all we know, they could remain relatively close to 4.5GHz, placing them within a few percent or so of what a 5800X can manage.

And performance often doesn't scale linearly with higher clocks. At the very least, an overclocked 5800X doesn't get much more performance in CPU-limited gaming scenarios, but AMD has suggested that the 5800X3D can push around 20% higher framerates than the existing 5000-series models in at least some games, and on average they implied it might be around 15% faster as far as CPU-limited gaming goes. There will probably be examples of games and applications that manage to run slightly better on a 5800X, but overall, I suspect the gains from the cache will tend to outweigh the clock deficit by a decent margin, at least for things like gaming, and where it falls behind it won't be by all that much.

Personally, I will probably still pass on it, as it will likely be possible to get relatively close performance for significantly less, but I suspect there may be a decent market for it even at that price if it can manage slightly better CPU-limited gaming performance than the competition more often than not. And if not, they can adjust the price. At the very least, it's a bit pointless to pass judgement on it before reviews are out, and those should be available in a matter of weeks.

Yep, a specialized chips mostly for gaming. Also Nvidia made an special SKU for mining. Outside this, a waste of silicon. AMD should never ever branded this chips with the X moniker. They should instead have branded it Ryzen 7 58003DG so people can see what they get.

As I pointed out on the last page, the X has absolutely nothing to do with overclocking, as the non-X Ryzen processors have traditionally been unlocked as well. It just means that it's a higher-end version of a processor. And X3D is intended to stand for "Hybrid 3D", referring to the way they stack the cache chip.

Also, 58003DG would make even less sense, since they already use a G suffix to indicate models with integrated graphics.

 

[hotaru251]

AMD are claiming it will be the faster gaming cpu on the market

as always its in its best case scenario...ergo using that massive cache.

apparently reason they can't OC is due to the cache getting toasty.

do wonder if that is why they ended up releasing 5800 and not the 5900 they showcased back when announced the 3d cache (which was the 15% improvement)

"Do not use in the shower" warning on hair dryers

apple to orange

CPU's don't casue you bodily harm nor do they die easily (in fact its extremely hard to kill a cpu within reason)

comparing that to electricity in water? not even same thing.

 

[spongiemaster]

So you're the reason why the put a "Do not use in the shower" warning on hair dryers...

No, he wanted a "Not recommended to use in the shower" warning label. Let people have the choice to do so if they want.

 

[sizzling]

as always its in its best case scenario...ergo using that massive cache.

Which is why my next sentence was “Now I’m not saying it will do this, just that was the claim.” and had already said in the prior sentence “Let’s see what the benchmarks show.”

 

[hotaru.hino]

No need to buy an special chips for that. You mean max stability in games? Because this is an pure gaming chips. What is the next? Ryzen 7 5800XC for creator chips?

Just because AMD likes to advertise to the dudubro gamers doesn't mean any of their chipsare "pure gaming chips."

 

[InvalidError]

Just because AMD likes to advertise to the dudubro gamers doesn't mean any of their chipsare "pure gaming chips."

I kind of wish PC marketing would quit making everything about gaming. "GAMING" kind of loses its relevance when you basically cannot buy anything that doesn't have "GAMING" in its name.

 

[GenericUser]

I kind of wish PC marketing would quit making everything about gaming. "GAMING" kind of loses its relevance when you basically cannot buy anything that doesn't have "GAMING" in its name.

It's a great way to sucker people into overpaying for an item who are new to, or are looking at getting into PC gaming and don't know any better about what they can or should be buying.

 

[TerryLaze]

I kind of wish PC marketing would quit making everything about gaming. "GAMING" kind of loses its relevance when you basically cannot buy anything that doesn't have "GAMING" in its name.

Next up the rog godlike notepad...text edit like nobodies business, the ultimate performance in typing.

What can they do, only gaming really pushes the hardware in the desktop market and going higher up to high end desk top or semi server they go low on settings to keep everything cool and keep them from shutting down mid workload.

 

[InvalidError]

What can they do, only gaming really pushes the hardware in the desktop market

When there are 200 other competing products in the same "GAMING" category, all that putting "GAMING" in the product name does is waste screen space in product listings, doesn't do much to distinguish one product from the 199 others.

 

[JeffreyP55]

It doesn’t matter what the limiting factor is, as long as you can accurately measure the performance with benchmarks and reviews you know what performance you are getting for your money. Most good reviews of many prior AM4 CPU’s included PBO on or off data points so it should be fairly easy to see how this stacks up against them. The fact I cannot switch on a feature or overclock and squeeze out an extra few % is fairly irrelevant unless the fun of overclocking is important. I just need to see good benchmarks to see if it is worth the price tag.

As for cooling my 3700X, I have a Corsair H150i Elite Capellix. Over the top yes, runs whisper quiet, looks good and managed to pick up for £95 (over 40% off).

5950x costs around 588.00. I bought one to replace my 5600x.

 

[sizzling]

5950x costs around 588.00. I bought one to replace my 5600x.

Yeah, can currently pick up a 5900X for £400 but actually found them for £354 the other day

 

[JeffreyP55]

Yeah, can currently pick up a 5900X for £400 but actually found them for £354 the other day

USD for me. If people will be patient the prices will keep coming down. I may even stop laughing about gamers paying x3 or 4 for a stupid video card that has a shorter lifespan than a Smartphone.

 

[TJ Hooker]

This needs separate voltage controller for the cache and that can not be done afterwards. So any zen4 with same technology would suffer from same problem. But it can be done eventually, by making different voltage regulation to this part of the chip.

Is the cache voltage not already separate from core voltage? I thought the L3 cache was powered by SoC voltage, which can be set independently from core voltage.

 

[sfjuocekr]

Actually, if you write directly to the SMU you can change settings AMD tried to hide from us...

Also includes overclocking, DLDO, EDC, TDC, PPT and more...

PBO is enabled on this CPU but setup OOBE, there is so much misinformation on the web posted by people that really have no clue what they are talking about.