AMD CPU speculation... and expert conjecture

[Blandge]

I think Intel started that trend when their stock frequencies were starting so much lower than AMD FX.

Like most marketing it's whatever sounds better. That new 36mpg car won't get 36mpg unless you drive it just right.

Yes but 36 mpg means the same thing on any car. 36 MPG on a Honda is the same on a Ford or a Toyota or a Chevvy.

That is why GHz is a very misleading metric to compare CPU specs with. It's really only good to compare with other CPUs within the same microarchitectural family, but the layperson doesn't understand this. So if you say it's misleading to say that the part is 3.2 GHz instead of 3.0, but it doesn't matter because GHz are relative to parts within that microarchitecure. Hell even the number of cores is beginning to get muddled in the same way. It would make much more sense if instead of having GHZ!!!1!!1!one on the box, they had a list of industry standard benchmark scores like SPEC and 3DMark. Then the buyer could make an informed decision. How great would it be if you could walk into your closes electronics store and see a list of benchmark scores on a chart near all of the components, so that you didn't have to spend 10 hours searching for all of this information on your own before you buy something online.

 

[mayankleoboy1]

my best example is if you try emulate a PS3 no tweaks nor the fastest Intel Xeon 20 Thread CPU and two of them can muster up playable framerates or experiences, simply because software trying to scale is inneficient.

I am really surprised you said this. Isnt this just the opposite of what you have been trying to say : that more gaming workload should be optimised for multicore processors ? Yet, as the example shoes, using the CPU for graphic related loads is worse than sub-optimal.

Again we are at that age where software writes are trying to use extentions and code to scale hardware and that never works ....... It is time for a change, AMD provides that chance for hardware to flourish and scale without the need of API's and the works.

I hate to ask, but what do these two sentences mean ?

 

[mayankleoboy1]

True...the talent they've amassed in the last 1.5 years is mind bending in it's own right:

John Gustafson
Jim Keller
Raja Kudori

Those names are household names among technophiles...people who haven't just contributed...but made industry wide impacts. I have no doubts that the rewards for those hirings are still a few years out, and AMD is competitive now! In the next few years...it will be a really interesting series of events unfolding. I can't fathom what leaps and bounds forward will come from minds like those under one roof with CPU and GPU technology at their fingertips.

We live in exciting futures.

 

[JAYDEEJOHN]

I think Intel started that trend when their stock frequencies were starting so much lower than AMD FX.

Like most marketing it's whatever sounds better. That new 36mpg car won't get 36mpg unless you drive it just right.

Yes but 36 mpg means the same thing on any car. 36 MPG on a Honda is the same on a Ford or a Toyota or a Chevvy.

That is why GHz is a very misleading metric to compare CPU specs with. It's really only good to compare with other CPUs within the same microarchitectural family, but the layperson doesn't understand this. So if you say it's misleading to say that the part is 3.2 GHz instead of 3.0, but it doesn't matter because GHz are relative to parts within that microarchitecure. Hell even the number of cores is beginning to get muddled in the same way. It would make much more sense if instead of having GHZ!!!1!!1!one on the box, they had a list of industry standard benchmark scores like SPEC and 3DMark. Then the buyer could make an informed decision. How great would it be if you could walk into your closes electronics store and see a list of benchmark scores on a chart near all of the components, so that you didn't have to spend 10 hours searching for all of this information on your own before you buy something online.

Too bad average Joe thinks faster is faster

 

[juanrga]

Cinebench is one of those unfair benchmark using the Intel compiler, which forces AMD chips to run the slowest possible code, even if they can run more faster one.

Cinebench is based on a software (Maxon) that professionals use for their work. So if Cinebench favours Intel, then the professional will buy an Intel processor. So for that software, intel is the better CPU. If you want to use Cinebench you buy intel, or you go home.

Cinebench has been cheating benchmarks scores for many years now. I am not worried about if one piece of software runs better in a chip or in other but when the benchmarks cheat and give fakes scores. Can you confirm that Maxon is using Intel compiler for its programs? I.e. can you confirm me that Cinebench benchmarks really represent Cinema4D performance?

As you must know, there are laws about fair competition among companies. If Intel and its chips are so good, then why do they embarrass themselves with such illegal and unfair practices?

http://sharikou.blogspot.com.es/2009/12/ftc-accuses-intel-of-rigging-benchmarks.html

Yes Maxon claims in its website that Cinebench is based in professional software Cinema4D, "which is used extensively by studios and production houses worldwide for 3D content creation", but since Titanic was produced using Linux in 1997 all major studios including Dreamworks Animation, Pixar, Weta Digital, and Industrial Light & Magic have migrated to Linux. Currently more than 95% of the servers and desktops at large animation and visual effects companies use Linux, which imply that 95% of the industry is not using Cinema4D.

If you want completely fair benchmarks, then say goodbye to Windows. Take up a linux distro, and build all the opensource softwares with -O3 -march=native flags. This way you can be assured that no hanky-panky is being done by Intel.

Because no closed source company is going to reveal how they build and code their program.

I am happy with open benchmarks or with closed benchmarks compiled with a fair compiler. I just reject the well-known unfair closed benchmarks that cheat about the scores giving fake advantage to Intel chips.

I repeat, if Intel chips are so superior why do the biased benchmarks exist?

As a final note. AMD already introduced Steamroller optimization in the main compilers as GCC. When SteamRoller was released compilers will use its potential since day one.

 

[Blandge]

I am happy with open benchmarks or with closed benchmarks compiled with a fair compiler. I just reject the well-known unfair closed benchmarks that cheat about the scores giving fake advantage to Intel chips.

I repeat, if Intel chips are so superior why do the biased benchmarks exist?

As a final note. AMD already introduced Steamroller optimization in the main compilers as GCC. When SteamRoller was released compilers will use its potential since day one.

I would say that SPEC (specifically CPU2006) is probably one of the best and most fair system benchmarks because it stresses the whole system with real-world workloads, and it allows the use of GCC or ICC. In addition, certain conditions must be met in order for a SPEC run to qualify for submission. The benchmark must be run for 3 iterations, only a certain number of compiler flags may be used (depending on whether a base run or peak run is reported), and configuration and log files are submitted to SPEC so that they can be checked for correctness before the scores are officially accepted.

AMD generally scores pretty well on SPEC CPU2006, so if you want a fair benchmark that's the one I would suggest.

Something like Dhrystone or Coremark do very little to show real world performance. The code is so small that it fits in L1 Cache, and really only benchmarks the number of instructions the CPU can retire, and the compiler can really condense the code into something rather meaningless. They are a decent measure of IPC, but it's not a realistic workload at all.

 

[kettu]

That is why GHz is a very misleading metric to compare CPU specs with. It's really only good to compare with other CPUs within the same microarchitectural family, but the layperson doesn't understand this. So if you say it's misleading to say that the part is 3.2 GHz instead of 3.0, but it doesn't matter because GHz are relative to parts within that microarchitecure.

It does matter especially when the difference between stock/turbo is greater. Would you be happy if a salesrep sold you a 3.2GHz quad-core laptop (A10-4657M) that turned out to be a 2.3GHz instead? I wouldn't be.

Hell even the number of cores is beginning to get muddled in the same way. It would make much more sense if instead of having GHZ!!!1!!1!one on the box, they had a list of industry standard benchmark scores like SPEC and 3DMark. Then the buyer could make an informed decision. How great would it be if you could walk into your closes electronics store and see a list of benchmark scores on a chart near all of the components, so that you didn't have to spend 10 hours searching for all of this information on your own before you buy something online.

Synthetic benchmarks are not something people should rely on when making decisions. Especially if those are handed to them by marketing people.

 

[8350rocks]

I agree, synthetic benchmarks try to emulate real world performance, sometimes more successfully than others. But, that does not diminish the fact that different applications do things differently. For example, adobe runs comparatively quicker on AMD CPUs than many other applications that perform the same functions, but come from different companies.

 

[griptwister]

Has anyone seen the prices on these 990FX motherboards? I think I may just pick one up after all... Especially since AMD is supposed to have the 990FX motherboards support SR. The z77s are going pretty cheap too, but for a ASUS R2.0 Sabertooth 990FX MoBo priced @ $199.99 is a phenominal value lol

I wonder what the pricing is going to be on Steam Roller. If a Octo-core AMD surpasses a quad core i7, will it be priced the same as a i7 4770K? Or would it be closer to a hexicore i7?

If the next gen 8core is priced at around $350, I will purchase it. However, If rumors are true, I'm sure it will be far more expensive.

 

[8350rocks]

I would expect AMD to offer competitive pricing and price products competitively in relation to the intel counterpart they mostly expect it to compete with. For example...if the 8550 (speculating nomenclature) performs about equally with the i7-4770k, then I would expect AMD will price it competitively just under $300 ($250-290). That gives them a small price advantage for comparable performance.


EDIT: IIRC, original BD pricing was expected to be $249.99

 

[JAYDEEJOHN]

AMDs margins can go up without directly competing with Intel.
The better buy, if their entire range improves, so too their margins, same cost, so they have more to work with.

 

[sarinaide]

my best example is if you try emulate a PS3 no tweaks nor the fastest Intel Xeon 20 Thread CPU and two of them can muster up playable framerates or experiences, simply because software trying to scale is inneficient.

I am really surprised you said this. Isnt this just the opposite of what you have been trying to say : that more gaming workload should be optimised for multicore processors ? Yet, as the example shoes, using the CPU for graphic related loads is worse than sub-optimal.

Again we are at that age where software writes are trying to use extentions and code to scale hardware and that never works ....... It is time for a change, AMD provides that chance for hardware to flourish and scale without the need of API's and the works.

I hate to ask, but what do these two sentences mean ?

No, not really, I am saying that despite the CPU's having all the technological advantage over the consoles, coding tries to have software artificially scale the hardware. The premise of HSA is that hardware will become less relevant and software compliments it rather than having pure horsepower, having a CPU and GPU operated interdependent of each other to produce more efficient compute performance. The endeavor is to have hardware and software operate in a seamless manner.

On different news, AMD's stock is up to 4.20/share, 20 days ago it was 2.25/share. Suggestions are that by August they may be as high as 6-7/share. Its a week plus on from the Intel acquisition rumor and AMD stocks have still gathered pace, investors are interested in something and perhaps like others already, have seen that AMD have got something special for the computer industry, something worth investing in.

 

[8350rocks]

I think this is more the bustle from the console design wins and the investor presentation that Steamroller will arrive this year. Additionally, after all that, the volcanic islands announcement came hot on the heels of the other announcements. I believe "the worm has turned" so to speak. Investors are realizing that their profitability did not effect their ability to bring innovative products to market. Thus, they have shown more faith in the company than many did, even a few months ago.

 

[cowboy44mag]

Has anyone seen the prices on these 990FX motherboards? I think I may just pick one up after all... Especially since AMD is supposed to have the 990FX motherboards support SR. The z77s are going pretty cheap too, but for a ASUS R2.0 Sabertooth 990FX MoBo priced @ $199.99 is a phenominal value lol

I wonder what the pricing is going to be on Steam Roller. If a Octo-core AMD surpasses a quad core i7, will it be priced the same as a i7 4770K? Or would it be closer to a hexicore i7?

If the next gen 8core is priced at around $350, I will purchase it. However, If rumors are true, I'm sure it will be far more expensive.

Tell you what with Steamroller said to be compatible with AM3+ I would highly suggest the Sabertooth 990FX R2.0. I bought one about two months ago and I couldn't be happier. I upgraded from a crap motherboard (which was half fried) that had my Phenom II 965 BE strangled to 3.8Ghz (to be stable although I could hit 3.9Ghz but the heat was just too great to keep it there). Once I put the Sabertooth and a 1000 W 80+ Gold PSU in I was able to hit a stable 5.0Ghz overclock on my "old crappy" 965 BE!! I don't keep it 5.0Ghz as after 24hrs of Prime 95 I was hitting temps of 61C (I don't like the processor to go over 58C at maxium) so I have an everyday clock at 4.5Ghz which never hits above 54C on Prime 95. Keep in mind although this is on air my system isn't typical of most air cooled systems. I have 7 120mm case fans and a Hyper 212 Evo with 2 Delta 3000rpm 120mm fans. But the fact remains that I'm clocking 4.5-5.0Ghz on a 9 year old processor because of the superior build quality of the Sabertooth 990FX R2.0 board. FYI I got my Sabertooth from Newegg for 189.99, haven't checked prices lately.

I think you posted before that you are also still rocking a Phenom II- the Sabertooth will definitely breath new life into your overclock and you should be set for Steamroller. Its also fun as hell to have friends over who like Intel and don't believe you can hit such overclocks on such an old processor. I'm not saying I can shame a i5 2500K, but my processor is far from dead and games like a dream.

 

[griptwister]

I think this is more the bustle from the console design wins and the investor presentation that Steamroller will arrive this year. Additionally, after all that, the volcanic islands announcement came hot on the heels of the other announcements. I believe "the worm has turned" so to speak. Investors are realizing that their profitability did not effect their ability to bring innovative products to market. Thus, they have shown more faith in the company than many did, even a few months ago.

I didn't consider this... Let's keep our fingers crossed!

@cowboy44mag, You're awesome! Haha! People already ask me what I'm running, they naturally assume I'm Using an i5 due to the GPU I'm using. haha! It's pretty funny, the way they look at me when I tell them I'm running a Phenom II 840. I'm debating on weather or not I should buy a 990FX MoBo or a new case first, because my current one makes my GPU run a little on the hot side due to lack of airflow. But, You've got me sold on the MoBo. I can't wait! I've gotta make the money first though... luckily my work season starts next week.

 

[The Q6660 Inside]

Has anyone seen the prices on these 990FX motherboards? I think I may just pick one up after all... Especially since AMD is supposed to have the 990FX motherboards support SR. The z77s are going pretty cheap too, but for a ASUS R2.0 Sabertooth 990FX MoBo priced @ $199.99 is a phenominal value lol

I wonder what the pricing is going to be on Steam Roller. If a Octo-core AMD surpasses a quad core i7, will it be priced the same as a i7 4770K? Or would it be closer to a hexicore i7?

If the next gen 8core is priced at around $350, I will purchase it. However, If rumors are true, I'm sure it will be far more expensive.

Tell you what with Steamroller said to be compatible with AM3+ I would highly suggest the Sabertooth 990FX R2.0. I bought one about two months ago and I couldn't be happier. I upgraded from a crap motherboard (which was half fried) that had my Phenom II 965 BE strangled to 3.8Ghz (to be stable although I could hit 3.9Ghz but the heat was just too great to keep it there). Once I put the Sabertooth and a 1000 W 80+ Gold PSU in I was able to hit a stable 5.0Ghz overclock on my "old crappy" 965 BE!! I don't keep it 5.0Ghz as after 24hrs of Prime 95 I was hitting temps of 61C (I don't like the processor to go over 58C at maxium) so I have an everyday clock at 4.5Ghz which never hits above 54C on Prime 95. Keep in mind although this is on air my system isn't typical of most air cooled systems. I have 7 120mm case fans and a Hyper 212 Evo with 2 Delta 3000rpm 120mm fans. But the fact remains that I'm clocking 4.5-5.0Ghz on a 9 year old processor because of the superior build quality of the Sabertooth 990FX R2.0 board. FYI I got my Sabertooth from Newegg for 189.99, haven't checked prices lately.

I think you posted before that you are also still rocking a Phenom II- the Sabertooth will definitely breath new life into your overclock and you should be set for Steamroller. Its also fun as hell to have friends over who like Intel and don't believe you can hit such overclocks on such an old processor. I'm not saying I can shame a i5 2500K, but my processor is far from dead and games like a dream.

+9001-1+1 The Sabertooth 990FX R2.0 is THE 990FX board to get. The Phenom II 965BE@4.5 is a very very very potent gaming system (at least until the 8 threaded games come along) just like the heavily underrated Q94/5/650 and QX9650/9770@4GHz

Note: The 965BE is not 9 years old, you must mean 4

 

[jdwii]

I'm pretty happy with my 1100T Phenom and it has no issues playing the latest games, heck even my 6950 is doing quite well in the latest games such as dead island riptide. The Phenom II 965 came out in 09 Aug almost 4 years ago yet it can still play all the latest games and is almost always bottlenecked by the GPU. Sure their is those certain games that might have some issues but then again that's only 2/10 games.

I'm sure Steamroller will last another 5 years after we buy it playing the latest games. This sounds kinda weird for me to say but i think i'm gonna wait to upgrade every 3-4 years instead of every other year. Get me a 9950 and a 8 core Steamroller in the future(after games start to use more and more power when the PS4/720 come out)

 

[juanrga]

The premise of HSA is that hardware will become less relevant and software compliments it rather than having pure horsepower, having a CPU and GPU operated interdependent of each other to produce more efficient compute performance. The endeavor is to have hardware and software operate in a seamless manner.

HSA dilutes the traditional difference between CPU and GPU. With HSA the CPU can help the GPU in cases where the GPU is bottlenecking the system and viceverse.

HSA will allow for a better utilisation of resources and for running tasks could not run with the traditional CPU+GPU architecture. Precisely, Sony chose a HSA architecture when found that the traditional PC architecture was not enough for implementing Sony vision about the next gen games.

 

[juanrga]

I think this is more the bustle from the console design wins and the investor presentation that Steamroller will arrive this year. Additionally, after all that, the volcanic islands announcement came hot on the heels of the other announcements. I believe "the worm has turned" so to speak. Investors are realizing that their profitability did not effect their ability to bring innovative products to market. Thus, they have shown more faith in the company than many did, even a few months ago.

But only Kaveri with steamroller cores is confirmed for 2013. Steamroller based FXs and Opterons are still scheduled for 2014. No? That was the reasoning behind the FX Centurion rumour at least.

 

[cowboy44mag]

Has anyone seen the prices on these 990FX motherboards? I think I may just pick one up after all... Especially since AMD is supposed to have the 990FX motherboards support SR. The z77s are going pretty cheap too, but for a ASUS R2.0 Sabertooth 990FX MoBo priced @ $199.99 is a phenominal value lol

I wonder what the pricing is going to be on Steam Roller. If a Octo-core AMD surpasses a quad core i7, will it be priced the same as a i7 4770K? Or would it be closer to a hexicore i7?

If the next gen 8core is priced at around $350, I will purchase it. However, If rumors are true, I'm sure it will be far more expensive.

Tell you what with Steamroller said to be compatible with AM3+ I would highly suggest the Sabertooth 990FX R2.0. I bought one about two months ago and I couldn't be happier. I upgraded from a crap motherboard (which was half fried) that had my Phenom II 965 BE strangled to 3.8Ghz (to be stable although I could hit 3.9Ghz but the heat was just too great to keep it there). Once I put the Sabertooth and a 1000 W 80+ Gold PSU in I was able to hit a stable 5.0Ghz overclock on my "old crappy" 965 BE!! I don't keep it 5.0Ghz as after 24hrs of Prime 95 I was hitting temps of 61C (I don't like the processor to go over 58C at maxium) so I have an everyday clock at 4.5Ghz which never hits above 54C on Prime 95. Keep in mind although this is on air my system isn't typical of most air cooled systems. I have 7 120mm case fans and a Hyper 212 Evo with 2 Delta 3000rpm 120mm fans. But the fact remains that I'm clocking 4.5-5.0Ghz on a 9 year old processor because of the superior build quality of the Sabertooth 990FX R2.0 board. FYI I got my Sabertooth from Newegg for 189.99, haven't checked prices lately.

I think you posted before that you are also still rocking a Phenom II- the Sabertooth will definitely breath new life into your overclock and you should be set for Steamroller. Its also fun as hell to have friends over who like Intel and don't believe you can hit such overclocks on such an old processor. I'm not saying I can shame a i5 2500K, but my processor is far from dead and games like a dream.

+9001-1+1 The Sabertooth 990FX R2.0 is THE 990FX board to get. The Phenom II 965BE@4.5 is a very very very potent gaming system (at least until the 8 threaded games come along) just like the heavily underrated Q94/5/650 and QX9650/9770@4GHz

Note: The 965BE is not 9 years old, you must mean 4

Good catch my friend!! HA!! I was thinking they released in 2009, not 9 years ago!! My bad:lol:

 

[cowboy44mag]

I think this is more the bustle from the console design wins and the investor presentation that Steamroller will arrive this year. Additionally, after all that, the volcanic islands announcement came hot on the heels of the other announcements. I believe "the worm has turned" so to speak. Investors are realizing that their profitability did not effect their ability to bring innovative products to market. Thus, they have shown more faith in the company than many did, even a few months ago.

I didn't consider this... Let's keep our fingers crossed!

@cowboy44mag, You're awesome! Haha! People already ask me what I'm running, they naturally assume I'm Using an i5 due to the GPU I'm using. haha! It's pretty funny, the way they look at me when I tell them I'm running a Phenom II 840. I'm debating on weather or not I should buy a 990FX MoBo or a new case first, because my current one makes my GPU run a little on the hot side due to lack of airflow. But, You've got me sold on the MoBo. I can't wait! I've gotta make the money first though... luckily my work season starts next week.

Your going to love the Sabertooth 990FX R2.0!! Keep in mind if you don't have adequate airflow watch your overclocks till you get a better case and cooling (to hit 5.0Ghz on my 965 BE I had to set the vcore to 1.6v (well above the recommended 1.55v max) and was hitting 61C - 62C is max for Phenom II). In my opinion the Phenom IIs could be pushed harder than the recommended maximums, they are hardy processors, and for overclocking the Sabertooth can handle heat better than most every other motherboard as it is Mil Spec. I don't know what board you currently have, but another thing that surprised me is I went from an AM3 board to the Sabertooth AM3+ and it barely fit in my gamer mid-tower. My case is larger than most mid-towers so it really surprised me how much larger the Sabertooth board was compared to the AM3 board I upgraded from. Honestly though price/performance nothing beats the Sabertooth 990FX!!

 

[palladin9479]

I am happy with open benchmarks or with closed benchmarks compiled with a fair compiler. I just reject the well-known unfair closed benchmarks that cheat about the scores giving fake advantage to Intel chips.

I repeat, if Intel chips are so superior why do the biased benchmarks exist?

As a final note. AMD already introduced Steamroller optimization in the main compilers as GCC. When SteamRoller was released compilers will use its potential since day one.

I would say that SPEC (specifically CPU2006) is probably one of the best and most fair system benchmarks because it stresses the whole system with real-world workloads, and it allows the use of GCC or ICC. In addition, certain conditions must be met in order for a SPEC run to qualify for submission. The benchmark must be run for 3 iterations, only a certain number of compiler flags may be used (depending on whether a base run or peak run is reported), and configuration and log files are submitted to SPEC so that they can be checked for correctness before the scores are officially accepted.

AMD generally scores pretty well on SPEC CPU2006, so if you want a fair benchmark that's the one I would suggest.

Something like Dhrystone or Coremark do very little to show real world performance. The code is so small that it fits in L1 Cache, and really only benchmarks the number of instructions the CPU can retire, and the compiler can really condense the code into something rather meaningless. They are a decent measure of IPC, but it's not a realistic workload at all.

Yes I absolutely love SPEC for system performance profiling (aka benchmarking). They've got a wide selection of tests and you can even order a custom benchmark built for your application, though that tends to cost a good chunk of money. Their what the industry heavyweights use to determine system implementations (SPARC vs Power on certain setups and so forth).

 

[The Q6660 Inside]

The Sabertooth 990FX for $200 or less is a steal, basically a Crosshair V Formula Z for $30-50 less. No doubt the best 990FX board around (IMO).

 

[de5_Roy]

MSI GX70 3BE: Richland A10 APU and Neptune 8970M Gaming Notebook
http://www.anandtech.com/print/6949/msi-gx70-3be-richland-a10-apu-and-neptune-8970m-gaming-notebook

nvidia's latest gpu scam exposed? 770 is the new 6950? amd calls nvidia out? charlied is rolling on the floor laughing hysterically(roflH)? as usual, take it with a grain of salt.
http://semiaccurate.com/2013/05/13/you-can-upgrade-an-nvidia-gtx680-to-a-gtx770-with-a-simple-bios-flash/

 

[griptwister]

Lol, the GPU hasn't even come out yet. However, I wouldn't put it past Nvidia, or even AMD to do such a thing.