AMD CPU speculation... and expert conjecture

[blackkstar]

I don't think I've seen this mentioned earlier.

IIRC Read was talking about shifting focus from products that don't sell well to products that do sell well.

From what I've gathered on Google, AMD's server market share is roughly 5%, their total market share across desktop and laptop is about 16%, and their market share (for CPUs only) on Steam Hardware Survey is around 27%.

AMD's strongest field for selling CPUs is PC gamers. They've recently took to the whole Gaming Evolved thing pretty hard, and they've even gone as far as to try and release a "new" CPU targeted towards the high end gamers.

My point is that traditionally we've seen AMD trickle down CPU dies from server to desktop. However looking at how things have been going, it nearly make more sense for AMD to focus on desktop gaming CPUs over server. It also would have good synergy with AMD"s design wins in the consoles.

Yeah, AMD released the server road map and there is no 8 core steamroller, but AMD may be doing what Intel is doing next year with Haswell. Releasing a new chip on a platform their targeting and just rehashing existing products to fill in new roles where they don't care.

The only difference is that Intel doesn't seem to care about desktop and AMD has the chance to focus on desktop, it is where they're strongest with CPUs right now according to market share.

Just throwing this all out here.

 

[juanrga]

Intel server cpus destroy amd server cpus like xeon destroys opteron.

Just a baseline performance you can see the higher end xeon cpus are over 2x faster then the opteron 6234 and the 2.6ghz xeon has same tdp.
http://www.cpubenchmark.net/high_end_cpus.html

Now ivy bridge ep suppose to add another 4 cores to make it 12 cores so its like making it 3x faster then amd fastest opteron cpu. This is the significant advantage of having a power efficient architecture as you can have amazing performance if you crank the power up slightly which intel are reluctant to do until 8 core haswell mainstream cpu is out. Its obvious that amd are not much of a threat on the server market as thats when intel can really flex there muscles as companies pay top money there.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/07/18/intel_q2_2013_server_drilldown/

In the magic world of Intel-land the opteron 6234 is "amd fastest opteron cpu"... In the real world the 6234 is not the fastest of the series 6200. Moreover, the series 6200 is the old series based in Bulldozer. That was replaced by the fastest 6300 series, based in piledriver, which is going to be replaced by the new Warsaw chips. In fact, I already quoted a server roadmap showing the 6300 series and Warsaw, but the people who lives in Intel-land never saw it.

I don't have passmark scores for the fastest AMD Opterons, but I have an old passmark list in my computer which I have recovered to find that the 6272 and 6274 score 9844 and 10245.

Intel-land is a magic world, where Xeon chips are 3x faster than the speed of light (Xeon comes from Neon), i3s are 80% faster than A10s, the i7-4770k is so power efficient that produces power instead consuming it, Intel is not in Pain...

Real world is a bit different.

 

[noob2222]

Intel server cpus destroy amd server cpus like xeon destroys opteron.

Just a baseline performance you can see the higher end xeon cpus are over 2x faster then the opteron 6234 and the 2.6ghz xeon has same tdp.
http://www.cpubenchmark.net/high_end_cpus.html

Now ivy bridge ep suppose to add another 4 cores to make it 12 cores so its like making it 3x faster then amd fastest opteron cpu. This is the significant advantage of having a power efficient architecture as you can have amazing performance if you crank the power up slightly which intel are reluctant to do until 8 core haswell mainstream cpu is out. Its obvious that amd are not much of a threat on the server market as thats when intel can really flex there muscles as companies pay top money there.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/07/18/intel_q2_2013_server_drilldown/

ROFL ... 6234 is a 12 core $400 cpu, your comparing it to a $2000 xeon...
passmark ... lol

opteron does have its problems, mainly scaling from one cpu to 2.

this isn't the flagship 6386SE either. the 6234 your referring to is pretty much the bottom of the pack. good job comparing one of the slower server cpu from amd to the best that intel has to offer. no wonder your delusional.

 

[griptwister]

In actual news, http://www.cpu-world.com/news_2013/2013062401_Athlon_X2_370K_now_available_in_US.html http://www.tomshardware.com/news/AMD-Richland-Athlon-FM2-cpu,23116.html something that has slipped right past us.

That's cool! I can't wait to see the benchmarks.

 

[sarinaide]

Is it just me or is Hafijur trolling us.

I am not a fan of Athlon FM2 parts for the very reason it defeats the benefits of a APU, win8.1 and the apps readying that utilize the core component of an APU are now mitigated. Which is why I will not endorse a 750/760K over a 5600/6600K or better irrespective of the price.

 

[Ags1]

I don't see how AMD can compete with Intel on power consumption while it is at 32nm (or even 28nm) and Intel is at 22nm / 14nm. The fact that they are even close in some sectors (Jaguar) is an incredible technical achievement. If they could compete on process, their power issues would largely go away, I think.

 

[szatkus]

760K is much cheaper than 6800K. If you already have a discrete graphics it's better choice.

 

[hcl123]

Across an entire benchmark suite you might have a point, but this test is pure integer performance...which is done exclusively by the CPU.

Postgre SQL is a open source Database application. How would that correlate to pure integer performance?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PostgreSQL

Anyhow the reason for the disparity is this benchmark uses FMA which Sandy Bridge does not support. http://openbenchmarking.org/test/pts/pgbench

When you run it on a Haswell CPU the numbers are much different.
http://openbenchmarking.org/result/1306202-SO-UBUNTUHAS15

4727: Haswell Core i7 4770K
2438: AMD FX8350

So that would make Haswell 4 core a whopping 13x faster than Sandy 6 core.

PS: Do some research before posting obscure benchmarks. They might come back to bite you.

My brother is right on this, that one you linked has a 240gb ocz vertex 3. These benchmarks got virtually nothing to do with the cpu, just ssd or hdd.

You and your brother are very WRONG!...


Imagine having your box, and then all of a sudden have >1000% ... that is >10x ... the performance out of the same exact box, no SSD no nothing different...

Do you think its possible ?

If you don't, then you are quite ignorant... an annoying and repetitive ignorant that wants everybody believe "his much appreciated "soap novels" are the reality"... like women, so in love with their "FICTIONAL" romances and novels, that tend to despise who don't believe in their "dreams" of romance fame and glory...

Why i write this ? ... am i being insulting ? no!... i don't know what you gain and why you do this "hafijur", AS A USER for sure you gain nothing, i buy intel or AMD or other, whenever i think it suits betters the purposes and the TCOs, but i never came to forums doing a "tremendous propaganda" campaign "FOR FREE" for any vendor, (at least pay me well lol)... as if in a frenzy for auto justification for choices, and or implicitly calling "stupid" anyone that doesn't see the brilliance of the ones own choices, or don't care to see the light... perhaps is you who are insulting, living a *fictional game* dream or better said a *nightmare*, because you'll gain the most if there were several AMDs and Intels, that is, a much larger choice potential tends to lead to better products and cheaper products...

And this is suppose to be a AMD uarch thread... its implicit( are you a paid shill ?).... to each you seem to have not contributed nothing, because it seems you know nothing of "uarches", yet you seem to pretend to be right and everybody else wrong... ironic ! lol...

about 10x (1000%) .. better said over 15x better (>1500%), for a particular example, or more than double of the case of that Phoronix test of FX over i7... on the same exact hardware at the same exact speed... its old...

http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/forum/352312-28-steamroller-speculation-expert-conjecture/page-104#11103697

http://www.edn.com/design/systems-design/4314689/Autovectorization-for-GCC-compiler

EEMBC publishes two types of scores: out of the box and “full fury,” or optimized. The organization obtains out-of-the-box scores by compiling unchanged source code, and it obtains full-fury scores by changing the source code to improve performance but still follow the EEMBC rules. In most cases, the changes engineers make to the code enable use of vector/SIMD instructions that compilers were unable to do automatically. The full-fury scores show an average improvement of more than 1500% over out-of-the-box scores for the same processor running at the same speed

UPDATE:
If you don't care to read that EEMBC article (typical of ignorants that convince themselves they know everything), its possible "over 10x improvement", because the "code", the SOFTWARE, is tweaked, better parallelized and vectorized... "full fury" is a "designation" for special very well good tweak on all possible corners... and no ... the windows benchmarks you like so much to point are not "full fury"... but you can count for sure they are tweaked for intel ( which makes their representativity moot).

FX being 7X better than i7 is quite possible, first thought is the the new LLVM understands well XOP/FMA4 ( intel doesn't support nativelly so is painfull slow there)...

 

[8350rocks]

Perf/Watt is irrelevant here.

Perf/Watt == useless when the initial cost difference is greater than you can recover in 12 months or less.

+9001

Perf/Watt is always relevant. There may be cases where you choose to ignore it (desktop) but spanning the whole market for CPUs it's very important. Also that recovery period is more like 3-5 years when you're dealing with corporate purchases.

Perf/Watt is single-handedly responsible for AMDs loss of 15% market share of the server market. From around 20% to 5% over the last few years. That has hurt AMD's bottom line significantly. Enough that they're practically ignoring the high end server market now. This leading to delays in Steamroller FX as well.

AMD mentioned a slight up-tick in server sales but didn't give any breakdown. I suspect these are from SeaMicro division. But what exactly was the mix of kit?

SM15000-OP(Piledriver), SM15000-XN(Ivy), SM15000-XE(Sandy), SM15000-64(Atom).

Their up-tick in server sales was likely from selling Intel Kit. Ironic.

It also explains the shift of focus from the 12/16 core CPUs to 4C APUs. The SeaMicro blades are primarily 4C and below. So introducing new APU versions of SeaMicro kit would help gain some market share back.

http://www.seamicro.com/SM15000

Actually, the increase is from their Open Source Compute Server architecture which integrates SeaMicro's Freedom Fabric. There have been large numbers of Financial Institutions acquiring AMD's 1U and 2U servers for their data storage in recent months. The concept of this open source compute on the "roadrunner" platform has piqued the interest of many companies...since AMD made is modular and scalable from 1U/1.5U/2U/3U it can be used by many to have a common platform across all their servers. So, they are selling Opterons, because AMD has not made this technology available with Intel products...

http://www.datacenterknowledge.com/archives/2013/01/16/amd-open-compute/

 

[8350rocks]

Is it just me or is Hafijur trolling us.

It's not just you...

 

[juanrga]

I don't see how AMD can compete with Intel on power consumption while it is at 32nm (or even 28nm) and Intel is at 22nm / 14nm. The fact that they are even close in some sectors (Jaguar) is an incredible technical achievement. If they could compete on process, their power issues would largely go away, I think.

Intel does not have 14nm chips.

Intel nanometer is not everyone else nanometer. Intel 22nm is what the rest of industry calls 26-28 nm approx.

Consider a 32nm desktop chip such as FX-8350 against a '22nm' chip such as the i7-3770k. The difference in total power consumption at full load is approx 40-80W, which is unnoticeable for normal users. The i7-4770k consumes more power and the gap with AMD is reduced.

Where Intel has some advantage is in the mobile market. However, recent Temash and Kabini chips based in Jaguar cores (28nm) have changed the leadership. Even a heavily pro-Intel site like Anandtech finally had to acknowledge that:

In its cost and power band, Jaguar is presently without competition. Intel’s current 32nm Saltwell Atom core is outdated, and nothing from ARM is quick enough. It’s no wonder that both Microsoft and Sony elected to use Jaguar as the base for their next-generation console SoCs, there simply isn’t a better option today. As Intel transitions to its 22nm Silvermont architecture however Jaguar will finally get some competition. For the next few months though, AMD will enjoy a position it hasn’t had in years: a CPU performance advantage.

 

[The Q6660 Inside]

Is it just me or is Hafijur trolling us.

It's not just you...

^

 

[gamerk316]

I don't think I've seen this mentioned earlier.

IIRC Read was talking about shifting focus from products that don't sell well to products that do sell well.

From what I've gathered on Google, AMD's server market share is roughly 5%, their total market share across desktop and laptop is about 16%, and their market share (for CPUs only) on Steam Hardware Survey is around 27%.

AMD's strongest field for selling CPUs is PC gamers. They've recently took to the whole Gaming Evolved thing pretty hard, and they've even gone as far as to try and release a "new" CPU targeted towards the high end gamers.

My point is that traditionally we've seen AMD trickle down CPU dies from server to desktop. However looking at how things have been going, it nearly make more sense for AMD to focus on desktop gaming CPUs over server. It also would have good synergy with AMD"s design wins in the consoles.

Yeah, AMD released the server road map and there is no 8 core steamroller, but AMD may be doing what Intel is doing next year with Haswell. Releasing a new chip on a platform their targeting and just rehashing existing products to fill in new roles where they don't care.

The only difference is that Intel doesn't seem to care about desktop and AMD has the chance to focus on desktop, it is where they're strongest with CPUs right now according to market share.

Just throwing this all out here.

You are forgetting one thing: Margins. Yes, AMD sells fewer server based CPU's, but the margins on those parts is HUGE. The fact AMD has only 5% of the market is irrelevant next to the profit on each part sold. They'd be insane to move away from that market, especially since "the cloud" is the new big thing.

 

[8350rocks]

http://www.postgresql.org/message-id/AANLkTikXLYc32Jyr5Fb8VeVNt6R86mCcF+0CkTHALd8W@mail.gmail.com
If you don't want to read the post, the summary is that SSDs are 5 to 7
times faster than a 7200RPM HDD drive under a pgbench load.

http://it-blog.5amsolutions.com/2010/08/performance-of-postgresql-ssd-vs.html
In this first test the fast SSD performed almost 14 times faster than the 7200 RPM hard drive. It also interesting that the ‘slow’ SSD drive is three times slower than the ‘fast’ SSD drive.

So you think the fact that Intel CPUs don't support FMA4 and XOP has nothing to do with a benchmark that runs that code heavily. How did you come to this conclusion? Picking up on Cazalan's incorrect speculation? Notice he hasn't said anything about it since it was pointed out that the benchmark uses code instructions that Intel doesn't support?

 

[gamerk316]

Fact 1. i3-3220 is 20-28% faster in SINGLE THREAD.
Fact 2. Kaveri will struggle with Haswell parts: +10%
Fact 3. i5 has turbo: +15%
Fact 4. i5 has 4 true cores, Kaveri only 2 modules.

Conclusion: Kaveri can fight with i3, but has no chance with i5.

Missing a few key points though: While the module design has overhead, it looks like AMD is addressing the worst of it. Figure maybe 5% performance loss over a "true" independent core, already factored into IPC. So from a performance perspective, Fact 4 repeats fact 1.

Secondly, AMD has a form of Turbo too. And its hard to predict when/how long it kicks in. For those reasons, I typically disregard Turbo when doing calculations.

Thirdly, clock is a factor. You can overcome a ~30% IPC deficit by clocking 30% higher. Which is the approach AMD is taking. The downside, however, is we still have heat concerns much above 4GHz, so that approach won't be able to drive performance improvements long term. Short term though, the extra clock is hiding the IPC deficit.

Performance wise? SR is probably going to be close to SB at clocks around 4.5GHz or so, which it looks like AMD will hit. OCing will obviously be limited though, so we'll still have our discussions over which is "better". SR is basically what BD should have been when it was launched.

One final point: Everyone here is overblowing HSA. Big time.

 

[sarinaide]

juangra sandy bridge takes 80% less electricity complete tasks compared to the fx8350. Haswell is even more efficient then ivy bridge the extra tdp is for the igpu. Haswell takes half the electricity to compete the same task as the fx8350 kilojoules used wise.
http://techreport.com/r.x/core-i7-4770k/power-task-energy.png

The i7 4770k similar performance to the fx9590 takes 147w more then the i7 4770k.

http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/forum/hardware-canucks-reviews/62166-amd-fx-9590-review-piledriver-5ghz-17.html

Oh and one more thing the temash and kabini cpus are so slow in real word tasks its pointless really as 7 year old core 2 duos are faster.

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

 

[The Q6660 Inside]

juangra sandy bridge takes 80% less electricity complete tasks compared to the fx8350. Haswell is even more efficient then ivy bridge the extra tdp is for the igpu. Haswell takes half the electricity to compete the same task as the fx8350 kilojoules used wise.
http://techreport.com/r.x/core-i7-4770k/power-task-energy.png

The i7 4770k similar performance to the fx9590 takes 147w more then the i7 4770k.

http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/forum/hardware-canucks-reviews/62166-amd-fx-9590-review-piledriver-5ghz-17.html

Oh and one more thing the temash and kabini cpus are so slow in real word tasks its pointless really as 7 year old core 2 duos are faster.

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PyrhdyZA8xXSJsgeY5GqNb6qunB1C0nbOFPYOeZCjeI+ZAGQfIHyrrx/jTW/FFIaQvMuoKW7qadWytnA+qDgjHMeNZjwO+MN3by5I7OWNj6awGH7JNap0u4PGbztGTvFRpbxwvgp9+o/jXXjn5SJfSjdN+jzQ3DT9n9BcuXik7uks47RkG+QM6iM+G3hVceTblt4bYHwrU+II15wqW2G8kLdrH/AFsNuo9wZsfGsqllZgAxbC5ARicIc94BT9XfnWc8OuVhLuOEiA+7+H/pXLsPeK7qux99Mg1Y3odfZz5r86Q4Hr50hNeWamx5JpFWkA3r2aQr2fqj1NWDoE4W7Ln7EUrD104/jVfP1R6mpjomPp2Ph2b59MqKl9Vr5jU7f+ZQnmRk/v8A402jQ5I8x/CvdpcjsYh/V3+H/KvNpcjtt+WF/FQf4V5o7mmjBGfEY+YI/eBUTx8arWceSK/7JGasV0Bgjyz+BH8Kax2SuHB3DK6MOfNc4q4+0vpkWaK63MOl2XxUlfLkSOXwrlXreYUUCigM0UUE0BSouTjzpK7W6c/9c6B+/E5NIGtyMADJ8PKp7opw3thLhkBjEZOt9OrWxUBc7ZyPxqtKO9Vk4PZobG4kY4Zp4Il5fVUamPpiU5+FZuMrtx7uUjWzZpwuxlmbDSKhZj95sd1F92rAr59uJWdmdyWdyWZj9pick/OtC6Z9IFPCbW3R3Yu57TUxc4h2Yam3x2hXA8MVTeI2UKQQvHcrLJJ/OQCJlMB0gnU5OG322FJNeGMt78oxTRRRVR4gsGcEjAA8ScZPkK5BiDg08tGOn0prcLWaji75pxbmmyjenEdFOJDvg8mGPQ1unEYjccOtrhfrCJHznkDH3s+YGawicZWt26CcS7bhMEeMMItKHwcISuB7+6QRW8bq7RA8DvzDcxSb4DAH9Q5UA/tFvhVZ6yujnsl6WUfRXOZF9z5+kX5nP+Kp4w5yDsctnYjB5P6YXu+tTXTm2F9wVZV3eHEgxucpmORfwPxAr1/yZvWTOH0xwHAqNYb07Brk4rxtOWk4pQtewaXFB5pK9UKueVUd7ZV2150g8h4+73CpWPiKgaYY9JYgE5ZmI27oz6CojSANz8q72V2I3DgZI5Z5etYq7abwe3zbxZI1d/Y+4kD5703Q6GlZiO4kZ5/aAIP8Ko8nSKQkHkQQc5548MeA8KbfnSTc6ufP+Fcelde8aXKhLKw8WGfTBzmoaw42IZy75MYCGT3kKAceZxt8KqbcfmIwZGxjG2xpm8+oAM8hA8Ccj/1qzjS5pjpJNaSzu8etQ3eATSyjO+MnvZ885wc1XZVwds48D5iuzQjwZT7jlT+O1cD5HwrvHJ5FesUgFLVQhoxS16AxQJjzrsO6PXei3iycnkPxNF4+9RXdedS1lbZhgJOMzXO/u02yjf8AwkfGoOOXIqc4RNmPQ/1e8F9xJ1HPv3pXf+Pj2zm0dxHaQrnIUnHxOT6c6Zk0kkuWPvJ3pCaOWV3lb9lzRTZpN6Kyh9w77XwpxMlM7B+96j929Pnq1EXIm9IprtcLvXBvOop1zGK27q2X/wB1W6SAjT2hB5MmZpGVvxBrDoY2kIRRksQB6mt96MzqbeMIArRqI2TkCFAXGPPArQrHHZwtxIrg5JztsCSc49CctUz0EmWW1ubfwyWA8dMoOT7surn41D9YCHtEddhgjPiBnIHrzFNOgvFGjvkydpQ0bjbGrGtCT4BdOn/HXs324tfTHrJQuOcMNvO8ZGACdP6vh8uXwqOkXbNaZ1wWYMtvJGA2RIrhe8RkqQcD41QRZOdtDfKvFuN6qNFAp1+apfuH8P8AOl/Ncv3D8x/nV3DVNlPn8/KkY42+dOhwuT7o+YphI2SfWpb9GrHQNS5riGpddRHbVRqrjqo10HbVSZrlroLUHpnoV81zJoXnSK7Yoq1xdWF8wBEDkH+zX56pBUjH1L37eMKe55N//t6x+NdLLPKKIvP8aB3j7zVo431dXVn2faiNu2dYY+zkzmRvqg5AwNjvTbiPQu7swJbiHREGALh0YZJxsAc/hWRGyW+F2z+NO7PoddyoXEeB9nWdBf8AVDY+ZwKnOBxxhYnZUdinaM7d4K4kbCKudK6VCnfJJYbjFWG46RIv1ixPjgFiPHvaR3fSueeWvEd+PimU3WZz8OlhbTLG6nlgqd88sEbH4VJQRyQK6TwyRhwSvaRshJAAOnVjOO7y8xV6teMWzyRgSBtUka48QWcLvmvfXdMsi2rIwOhpVOP66of/AOf41cMrZ5L/AMspcaygA0FT5V71Ukkma04OHYnyorp2nrRUV2gtmBBxyPjUlHDnbIrkbtPvD515N0vgw+dZttb6w4fhAbm3yFIOBr5k/EUR8SXxYV1HE0++Kx+TcmD1Z8NWN1YFgVOcgaiPQHbNW/hFxbse/eXqE4yV7KIH13z+FVEcTj/pBXteKRffFWW/K6x+GlPwThsvO4nY+Ba414PowIpg/ArHJC3MgPm0aY//AFqkfnKA83X5H/KvScRgH2x+yf8AKrv9J6+Vm4nwuCFdSXCykEfRiP6wPPJV9tq4C7tO6Wjl8NQUgA776csSNvM1DQXKSEiIgkc8gjGeWxxnlXT82k/aP+vSkxt9FykTxveGeMN2P9rHXg33C/6O6P8AtE/yqGHBj/oV6HCjWpxs3M44hxOy0fQW82rfeWU4XbnhMaj8cVnFaN+aMryPzFZ9HbkkjbbmScAfGr10xbtyorq6KPHPoNvxpAy+R+dEc6K66l8j86Na+R+dByorrqXyPzpCV9/4UHOivYUefzpHjI50GoWXWdeCNd4m7q41IfL+qwr1N1kXrj66p+oi/hrLGpXo91TPNaW8vaxgSRROBpJIDIGwfnTbjvQL2Qd6aJj90MFfHnpO5+FXq12VW/v5pnDSzzMVYOuXOFccmVQcKfeAK5S3hZdMkryf2jM2T7y3OpI2CtqA7xX6wByV5fWHgNxvXkcFzyQn0p0p2QsPdOUCrnnpJ3xyyMYNeWtzuQxBPM6ufv5c/fUtLwgjmMep/hXBeHY8fx/hmll/X9LMojBYNq1doc+fiMHIwRy3r3d8LlcDVKTjwZiR64J5097aIHBkjBH9YUr3cf8ASx/tD/OuXmN6xqH/ADA/3x8q8/mB/vD5VKNeJ/SJ+0K5ter99f2hU3kdcUd+Ym+8PkaKf+2L98fMUVd1OuKuh60K16jeJSRJIggKyIrr9Lg4YBhnK88Gs+I2r6pVu7wL3sM//TLiuuWOnKZbYLwLquv7qeaBYlja3IEzStpRGIyq6lzqJG+2RjBzuMuLnqjv0vY7Rli1zI7xuJPonEYBcBsZBGRsR4itm4mP5N0j9Jf+6oamrne54WTzxNv622T+4VnUXbB73qZ4jFLDEUiZp2ZV0SEhdK6maQlRpUDx9BzIpv0q6rr3h8HbzCF4gQrNFIW0EnSNQYA7nbbNafxnjKWnSBJIXubtpFlS6tI1eU2ilINEkcSryOAW9fhUf1qcIk/Ncs9ldMbJ5TJcWrRrlXe4DOVZk7VGE5y0bHKnUNgNNNQ7VmnCOgl1c2Mt7EI+xiLhtT6XygDNhcY+0PGpeXqd4gtxFbkQa5UlkX6U40xGMNk6djmVcfGr91QQxP0euVuGKQmW4EjjmqaI8kbH91XjiP6Ysv7rff8AEs6dYvavnDpl0Lu+FtD7QUUyiTQYpCT3NOrJwMfWFWHhnRDins1tODbNHcmJY9bd76X6urCjH40266YYBensbqW4cyXBlidiy2z6x9HGMDSOY8fqitZ4N+h+Df2ljVnj0zfKmRdCeJGSSMw2paJUdsTsBh9eMdw7/RmunBeil/cwR3EVvbrHIoeNZpyJHUjIICoQARuN+VarD/129/sLb/xFU/obd+3cMsov5RY3VvEgtpnh7rlbcxiSHtV7OdGiJJUb4yRjZq12og+GdH+IzoXjtII9LvGyyzkOGRijAgIRjIOCCQRg1l3SDoJc21/FZy9mJbgxlAr5T6WQxpqbAx3gfDlWu9Vz3a8c4hDeSmSSOMaiDiNmLoRIsYwqZQryFZfDdu/SSLW7Pp4iirqYtpUXmyjPIDyqW7Dq96kuIRTQRMIS1wzqhWQlQUjMh1nTsNKnHvprcdUd8l9HZHsjNLG0q4kOgIpYEs2NjlfLxFfS/Epl78rc7TW/qDbkn8GPyqDls9XSNH8I+HN8C9yQMfANUGB8U6pL23ura2k7HtLsuIiHJXMYBbUdO2xFd26mr4PcKxgUWqK8rtIQgVkZ9m074VcnyyPOtr49GZZuC3DqyuLl1w6lHXtLeViCrAEfzQ2PkK69aqsnCOINbjLuE7XxIUiKOT0+iGfQk0GJy9SPEFtjcHsOzERmP0h1aAnactPPHhUd0P6sLvicLy23ZaUfszrcqdWlW2GDthhWz9ZMcJ4LCZrmS3ZYCYgjFe3kFsdML4G6t5bVnX5Pt2/507PW2gxSsU1HQW7g1FeWceNA2PULxESCP+T6mVnH0pxhSqn7Pm4qM/6KL32dZ/oezab2cfSHPae0m15Y5doOflWydC7t26Q8WVnZlQR6FLEqmdJOkHZckeFSHHYIU4bCLdy8f5wtzqJydbcUDSjkOUhcfCgg7O64tAkHDYrWDtkt0xcduTGkUeI9b5TZ2K4AAPPPgahrzgN3DLGt4kIE7MEnjkMimQK0hVywDBiqsQeRxzq9cb6Qm14ygME8sctqFdoIZJjEVmcozrGCdJyw2GeVZ71ucJuLWyt3tboycPDr2UWmPMBMcixlJVUF49DuveOR3clicizKj1wbo3d30QuLWKIQsSEeeZ4mmCkjUFRW7uQQNXv2rlZcAv5pbiNLaFHtSqzLJPtlk7RSmlDlSuD8asXVrxIXfCrW2mW4tpYSDbXPYkRuyl+zaGR1MbtpJUoeeGI9050CsrqK44kl/KJpNUOJlVU1w9kwRtKgBTjII8wdzsTe1GbvwDiUiWjRx2iLfBexy7Me9A1wNWRhe4h896av1T8YuGlUyQfROEcCTQMmNJRjSgyNMi861meGJBwJIGLwrIqxOebxjh1wEY7DcqAeQ58qieHXT/8Atbcx627P2QPo1HRqxCurTy1Y2zU2MT6W9CLjhZiW6EeZQ5Ts3LfVKg6sgY+sKsDdS/EBOsOLfW0byD6U40oyI2Tp55kX8aiutG4d+JXwZmYJMyoGYkICVJCg7KM+VfSM/wClIf7pc/8AHtaZYa1ftZnWAcN6nOIXEZkjWAqHljwZcHVFK0L/AGeWpGx7qqXH+DSWVw0FzH2ciYyNmBBGVZWGxBH+XMV9E2kcR4Q5nmEEaX08rSkZC9lxd5QOYxqKBc+GrO/Ksh62+kMN7xMy2zdpGsUcesAhWZS7NpzzHfAz7qYcfa6LnZ5UPtE/0KKcYor0f6v7Z/ymBrb7Hr2slitVktJ2e1VAjBkwHEJhZh3t8qzDfzrD69V5W9NZ4X10xGfiAu7Z2tr47pGwMiDsVt2UkldWqNV3BGDnnnZ1edekTcQtpUglFtbJKoTKdo7SIEDEZwAoGOZ5msdpKbOrYLzrns1vY7u3sWWUswuHYqHliZAuAwJ7wKoRkY7uNs5pv0y627Wfh81nZW80ftDtJK8pXus83bSlQGbOpsjwA1beFZPXQU2vVoHRXrJiteD3Fi0MjPMZSrqV0DWqqM5Ofs+VWi669bdr63uBbT6YYbiIrmPUTK0BBG+MDsj8xWM15JqbOq4dZXS2yvmR7W0aCQvI8ztpzKXwcnSTk5yfjVl4912RGC0hsbVoltpYZAJGBGiHcRqBk78ixOwHmcjJ5fCvFdMZuMXw3Hif5QFt2Mz29tMt1NGqEuV7JSoYKchstp1sfqjPupj0Y667SO1tI7u2maWxAWB4mUqdMLQBmDMuDoYjHeHj6ZRwThbXNzDAmzTSJGDgkDWwXUQN8DOT6VdumfUxccPhjlMqTdpMkIRFYEM4YqSW2AyuPVhWQ+6O9b6QcWvL64gf+UoiCONlbRp0Bcs2NXdQb1Srbjqjii3mltC3YuNG2rSJ+10+WcbVfrn8n64Kti6tmuQiyNbjUCAcgd7OcEowDFcEqap/V/0JfikzwRSJGUQyFnBORqVMDH61BeuMdeEUy3yrBKFuYUjjyUyj6ZFkZjnkQyYx5Gn0XXzai+luDbz4eCCELmPIMcs8jE97ke1T9k1VH6op1tDc9vFpFwbbTpbOoXnserPlq73pXvpj1PTcPtJLiS5hcR6Po1Vg7apFj2z5as/CgsNr19RNBbrcwzPPC6yO6mMKzAsDgZGO62OVE/XjbSm9jltpjBdqqhQyahmHsZc97yVMYPgaqHQnqzlv4JbkzxW1vESpllGxKgFjzACgEZYn9xp1ddT96nEUsgUbtEMqzjIjESkK7MMZ1AlRpGd2XwOaCw8Q64uH3FnHBc2MkpijCqW7MqJBHo1DvVRerTpanDL72iRGkXs3TShGctjB7xxjap7pJ1OT20aSx3MNxE0qwu6DHZO0ohyRkhgJMqRnIO2OeOnSTqPuLSAy+0QytqiVYlBV3aWZIVC6tubj5UDjo71uQ2/Fb68aCZku9ARAU1Lpx9bJx4eFej1wwewpb9hNqS7FyWymNPt5u9PPOdJ0+tLc9QVykbFLq3kuI0WRrcagQDqxhueCUcKSoBKnlvVa4z1cSW3CouINNGyTiLEYVtQ7RSwBJ22waC6ydf0Q4itwtvL2Jg7GRSVDgiQurpg4OMkYJGc89qg+sLrRt7qwjsbKCWKEMGLTEasLkhVAZs95s5J8OVZhXe45J+r/ABoNV6E9cVtb2MFre28z+zOHieIqclXZ01BmXGNRHMg0+sOv2IT3csttJicRrEqMpKpGrKO0JI7xLE7bDlvjJxWig16166LdYuFp2E2bDR2hymH02clsdG/3nB38BTe263YF45LxEwy9nJAIRHlNYI7Pc74x3D4+NZTXStYzaLB0j4tHe3lzPh0SeRnUEAlc4xqA9PCtZHXrbhUuJLOY3SxyRLodewJYo7DVqyoLRqd0JAzjxrDrXlT213OjwfY+48wfgf3nzrlvVdpjLF3uutFZOCy2Lwv28rSu0g0iLVJdNcHAJ1Y72Kzt2qSfgzj7vwOaYTxaWweYpdkkc8miiim00bUZpKWtI90UlLUBXoV4r0tFe80hozQag8vzFeStK/MUrHavRxz8XLL2t/U3adpxu0GMhWkc+7RE7A/MCt16wreeTht0UT6WK4gktwSMMI5YCDz5Ehttq+eegPTH82XftIiEx0OgUvoxqI72cHwBHxq4TdfMzxXcbQZ9pZzGxmJ9mDRqiqgKHUFZdfhuxrkrV5bZ+IKf5/hvERCudLKe5qfRqKkrNEJA+OTDJ+rq3zX8nq30cTuFIIZbZgwONmWeNWG3vFK35Q0gGr2GH2ns+z7ftW07HV/N6c6dRJ06/jVM6A9Yb8NupbgxCdpUZGBfRu0iyFshTndeWPGg3npE0J4WfZgRH7fDkHOe1HFUE57xJwZdZ8t9tqqn5QRstKiUP7boT2cjVoEfbd/VvjONfP3VTJOudjZm29lXBuTc6+1PM3vtmjGjz7mc+/3V36W9dwv7WWFrGJGkXSJe01sg1Bu7mMHw8xzoLj0FVD0UlEjaIyZw7hdRRO27zhftEDJx44q12VhPFxmDt7k3GbO70kxRxaMT2mf5sDOcjn5ViHQbrVNhazWk1sl1BKxbQ0hTGpQHU5VgUOkHGBgknfNSl118TPeW9yLeNTDHLFInaErKkhRmwcZQgxqRzoNHvf0LP/2k3/fgpp11TQLJaEIzcQDxGyG/ZlhcRllfcDflv5+FUDpH12tcQpDDaJbxiZZ5AJNZkZZhcEA6F06pBknBJrv0j69zdwlPYo0kyhjmMnaNEySLIrKDH5qPEUGp3lq/EEfQ1xw3iCwxl1DKcoWlEQkK5WWLWsuCMMN+WcHOum97nonw1eX0qRsPEGJZ0b8Urw/5Q74Z1sYluWjEZn7UkYUsy9zTnSGdjp1eJ3qncb6fLccMhs/ZY0eIxk3IYGSTQGB1DQDvqz9Y8qCrxwrhyWwVAKDSSHOoAjI+rgZO/lRePkgjHwGB8B4VyjlxSO2aDzRRSrjO/L3UAK6qtchzpyH2rrx6+Wa9QNTmLOpfw+VN4gSSURmA3O2SB/Wxt4H5U7SKbXqaOQ4IyAuTuDgAf4T8q42eduky8aPfa3xioy8PfP8ArwqUyf6OX/5bVEXVq7yMVjk54xpOQQBkEee4+dLEl045opHtHBwVcHyKmiml7ONJRRQehS0UVAGvS0UUV6NLRRUHN+Yoeiiu+Hpzy9uVFFFc1drjnXNKKKBWFeKKKIKKKKKKKKKBaSiigKVqKKBKKKKApw1FFBKcGlIVsEjKjkcfaGP3n50sV9JgHtHzjnqPmff7z86Wio05i/kCbSPsrfbbwZseNepbxxqw782+0fvrS0UKaSXT5+u3h9o+VFFFVH//2Q==

+1

 

[The Q6660 Inside]

http://wiki.postgresql.org/wiki/Reliable_Writes

This beats the fx8350 as it has better ssd.
http://openbenchmarking.org/result/1301108-ACAL-CENTOS547

This gets destroyed as it has a slow hdd:
http://openbenchmarking.org/result/1301104-ACAL-CENTOS666

I can't seem to find anymore benchmarks but still you can see the difference betwen a normal hdd score and an ssd.

An 8-core, 16 thread Nehalem (One of Intel's best recent products) setup... are you nuts?....

 

[cowboy44mag]

I have never understood why people care so much about Cinebench numbers. If you want real word rendering performance comparison, just have a look at Tom's 3ds max test results, i.e. from the 4960X review:

Been gone for a few days, come back and log on to see if there is any Steamroller news and see I haven't missed a thing. Still no solid Steamroller news, hafijur is still trying to fight the worlds energy crisis (the one in his head that is) all on his own, and the Intel fanyboy club is still acting like they have a pole stuck up.....

Intel fanboys love Cinebench numbers because it makes their cpus seem much better than they are period. Intel fans like to think that the very best AMD has right now isn't even at Sandy Bridge levels of performance, however when you use "real word rendering performance comparison" it becomes clear that Piledriver is already edged past Sandy Bridge levels of performance. I know hafijur is going to be all over this with Intel's vastly superior single core execution and performance per watt.... Steamroller is going to improve greatly on single core execution, and will have better performance per watt (especially in the Kaveri lineup). It may not be as good as Intel's single core execution or performance per watt, but it should do very well vs Intel in multi-thread benchmarks, and even better in "real word rendering performance comparison".

Then add in HSA, with fully compatible software

 

[cowboy44mag]

Fact 1. i3-3220 is 20-28% faster in SINGLE THREAD.
Fact 2. Kaveri will struggle with Haswell parts: +10%
Fact 3. i5 has turbo: +15%
Fact 4. i5 has 4 true cores, Kaveri only 2 modules.

Conclusion: Kaveri can fight with i3, but has no chance with i5.

Missing a few key points though: While the module design has overhead, it looks like AMD is addressing the worst of it. Figure maybe 5% performance loss over a "true" independent core, already factored into IPC. So from a performance perspective, Fact 4 repeats fact 1.

Secondly, AMD has a form of Turbo too. And its hard to predict when/how long it kicks in. For those reasons, I typically disregard Turbo when doing calculations.

Thirdly, clock is a factor. You can overcome a ~30% IPC deficit by clocking 30% higher. Which is the approach AMD is taking. The downside, however, is we still have heat concerns much above 4GHz, so that approach won't be able to drive performance improvements long term. Short term though, the extra clock is hiding the IPC deficit.

Performance wise? SR is probably going to be close to SB at clocks around 4.5GHz or so, which it looks like AMD will hit. OCing will obviously be limited though, so we'll still have our discussions over which is "better". SR is basically what BD should have been when it was launched.

One final point: Everyone here is overblowing HSA. Big time.

It never fails to amaze me how industry "professionals" can never seem to embrace new technology or a new way of looking at things. "Everyone here is overblowing HSA. Big time" I'm sure back in the day when fuel injection was being introduced you had a lot of old school mechanics who said the same thing. Never be as reliable and good as a carburetor I'm sure. Funny thing is all cars and trucks now use fuel injection. Just because its not something that you know, or are familiar with or comfortable working with doesn't mean its bad technology. It just means that YOU may have to get some further education and learn how to work with the new technology.

HSA is going to be as important to the computing world as fuel injection was to the automobile industry. It may not be a seamless jump without hitches in the road (fuel injection had its fair share of bugs before being perfected), but once it is perfected it will be the new standard. There are too many large corporations backing HSA development for even Intel to squash.

 

[szatkus]

Fact 1. i3-3220 is 20-28% faster in SINGLE THREAD.
Fact 2. Kaveri will struggle with Haswell parts: +10%
Fact 3. i5 has turbo: +15%
Fact 4. i5 has 4 true cores, Kaveri only 2 modules.

Conclusion: Kaveri can fight with i3, but has no chance with i5.

Missing a few key points though: While the module design has overhead, it looks like AMD is addressing the worst of it. Figure maybe 5% performance loss over a "true" independent core, already factored into IPC. So from a performance perspective, Fact 4 repeats fact 1.

I've checked some benchmarks which has single and multithreaded versions and it usually scales worse than Phenom II X4 or i5. AMD's 80% figure is correct.

Secondly, AMD has a form of Turbo too. And its hard to predict when/how long it kicks in. For those reasons, I typically disregard Turbo when doing calculations.

True, but I think it's safe to assume that for single thread both CPUs work on turbo clock.

Thirdly, clock is a factor. You can overcome a ~30% IPC deficit by clocking 30% higher. Which is the approach AMD is taking. The downside, however, is we still have heat concerns much above 4GHz, so that approach won't be able to drive performance improvements long term. Short term though, the extra clock is hiding the IPC deficit.

But Steamroller clock won't be much higher than Piledriver's. 2-5%, I think.

Performance wise? SR is probably going to be close to SB at clocks around 4.5GHz or so, which it looks like AMD will hit. OCing will obviously be limited though, so we'll still have our discussions over which is "better". SR is basically what BD should have been when it was launched.

I agree with that, but it's still not enough to defeat i5 IB with just 2 SR modules.

One final point: Everyone here is overblowing HSA. Big time.

Because people which write in topic with "AMD" in title usually like AMD. Because of that they usually overestimate some things...

 

[8350rocks]

juangra sandy bridge takes 80% less electricity complete tasks compared to the fx8350. Haswell is even more efficient then ivy bridge the extra tdp is for the igpu. Haswell takes half the electricity to compete the same task as the fx8350 kilojoules used wise.
http://techreport.com/r.x/core-i7-4770k/power-task-energy.png

The i7 4770k similar performance to the fx9590 takes 147w more then the i7 4770k.

http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/forum/hardware-canucks-reviews/62166-amd-fx-9590-review-piledriver-5ghz-17.html

Oh and one more thing the temash and kabini cpus are so slow in real word tasks its pointless really as 7 year old core 2 duos are faster.

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PyrhdyZA8xXSJsgeY5GqNb6qunB1C0nbOFPYOeZCjeI+ZAGQfIHyrrx/jTW/FFIaQvMuoKW7qadWytnA+qDgjHMeNZjwO+MN3by5I7OWNj6awGH7JNap0u4PGbztGTvFRpbxwvgp9+o/jXXjn5SJfSjdN+jzQ3DT9n9BcuXik7uks47RkG+QM6iM+G3hVceTblt4bYHwrU+II15wqW2G8kLdrH/AFsNuo9wZsfGsqllZgAxbC5ARicIc94BT9XfnWc8OuVhLuOEiA+7+H/pXLsPeK7qux99Mg1Y3odfZz5r86Q4Hr50hNeWamx5JpFWkA3r2aQr2fqj1NWDoE4W7Ln7EUrD104/jVfP1R6mpjomPp2Ph2b59MqKl9Vr5jU7f+ZQnmRk/v8A402jQ5I8x/CvdpcjsYh/V3+H/KvNpcjtt+WF/FQf4V5o7mmjBGfEY+YI/eBUTx8arWceSK/7JGasV0Bgjyz+BH8Kax2SuHB3DK6MOfNc4q4+0vpkWaK63MOl2XxUlfLkSOXwrlXreYUUCigM0UUE0BSouTjzpK7W6c/9c6B+/E5NIGtyMADJ8PKp7opw3thLhkBjEZOt9OrWxUBc7ZyPxqtKO9Vk4PZobG4kY4Zp4Il5fVUamPpiU5+FZuMrtx7uUjWzZpwuxlmbDSKhZj95sd1F92rAr59uJWdmdyWdyWZj9pick/OtC6Z9IFPCbW3R3Yu57TUxc4h2Yam3x2hXA8MVTeI2UKQQvHcrLJJ/OQCJlMB0gnU5OG322FJNeGMt78oxTRRRVR4gsGcEjAA8ScZPkK5BiDg08tGOn0prcLWaji75pxbmmyjenEdFOJDvg8mGPQ1unEYjccOtrhfrCJHznkDH3s+YGawicZWt26CcS7bhMEeMMItKHwcISuB7+6QRW8bq7RA8DvzDcxSb4DAH9Q5UA/tFvhVZ6yujnsl6WUfRXOZF9z5+kX5nP+Kp4w5yDsctnYjB5P6YXu+tTXTm2F9wVZV3eHEgxucpmORfwPxAr1/yZvWTOH0xwHAqNYb07Brk4rxtOWk4pQtewaXFB5pK9UKueVUd7ZV2150g8h4+73CpWPiKgaYY9JYgE5ZmI27oz6CojSANz8q72V2I3DgZI5Z5etYq7abwe3zbxZI1d/Y+4kD5703Q6GlZiO4kZ5/aAIP8Ko8nSKQkHkQQc5548MeA8KbfnSTc6ufP+Fcelde8aXKhLKw8WGfTBzmoaw42IZy75MYCGT3kKAceZxt8KqbcfmIwZGxjG2xpm8+oAM8hA8Ccj/1qzjS5pjpJNaSzu8etQ3eATSyjO+MnvZ885wc1XZVwds48D5iuzQjwZT7jlT+O1cD5HwrvHJ5FesUgFLVQhoxS16AxQJjzrsO6PXei3iycnkPxNF4+9RXdedS1lbZhgJOMzXO/u02yjf8AwkfGoOOXIqc4RNmPQ/1e8F9xJ1HPv3pXf+Pj2zm0dxHaQrnIUnHxOT6c6Zk0kkuWPvJ3pCaOWV3lb9lzRTZpN6Kyh9w77XwpxMlM7B+96j929Pnq1EXIm9IprtcLvXBvOop1zGK27q2X/wB1W6SAjT2hB5MmZpGVvxBrDoY2kIRRksQB6mt96MzqbeMIArRqI2TkCFAXGPPArQrHHZwtxIrg5JztsCSc49CctUz0EmWW1ubfwyWA8dMoOT7surn41D9YCHtEddhgjPiBnIHrzFNOgvFGjvkydpQ0bjbGrGtCT4BdOn/HXs324tfTHrJQuOcMNvO8ZGACdP6vh8uXwqOkXbNaZ1wWYMtvJGA2RIrhe8RkqQcD41QRZOdtDfKvFuN6qNFAp1+apfuH8P8AOl/Ncv3D8x/nV3DVNlPn8/KkY42+dOhwuT7o+YphI2SfWpb9GrHQNS5riGpddRHbVRqrjqo10HbVSZrlroLUHpnoV81zJoXnSK7Yoq1xdWF8wBEDkH+zX56pBUjH1L37eMKe55N//t6x+NdLLPKKIvP8aB3j7zVo431dXVn2faiNu2dYY+zkzmRvqg5AwNjvTbiPQu7swJbiHREGALh0YZJxsAc/hWRGyW+F2z+NO7PoddyoXEeB9nWdBf8AVDY+ZwKnOBxxhYnZUdinaM7d4K4kbCKudK6VCnfJJYbjFWG46RIv1ixPjgFiPHvaR3fSueeWvEd+PimU3WZz8OlhbTLG6nlgqd88sEbH4VJQRyQK6TwyRhwSvaRshJAAOnVjOO7y8xV6teMWzyRgSBtUka48QWcLvmvfXdMsi2rIwOhpVOP66of/AOf41cMrZ5L/AMspcaygA0FT5V71Ukkma04OHYnyorp2nrRUV2gtmBBxyPjUlHDnbIrkbtPvD515N0vgw+dZttb6w4fhAbm3yFIOBr5k/EUR8SXxYV1HE0++Kx+TcmD1Z8NWN1YFgVOcgaiPQHbNW/hFxbse/eXqE4yV7KIH13z+FVEcTj/pBXteKRffFWW/K6x+GlPwThsvO4nY+Ba414PowIpg/ArHJC3MgPm0aY//AFqkfnKA83X5H/KvScRgH2x+yf8AKrv9J6+Vm4nwuCFdSXCykEfRiP6wPPJV9tq4C7tO6Wjl8NQUgA776csSNvM1DQXKSEiIgkc8gjGeWxxnlXT82k/aP+vSkxt9FykTxveGeMN2P9rHXg33C/6O6P8AtE/yqGHBj/oV6HCjWpxs3M44hxOy0fQW82rfeWU4XbnhMaj8cVnFaN+aMryPzFZ9HbkkjbbmScAfGr10xbtyorq6KPHPoNvxpAy+R+dEc6K66l8j86Na+R+dByorrqXyPzpCV9/4UHOivYUefzpHjI50GoWXWdeCNd4m7q41IfL+qwr1N1kXrj66p+oi/hrLGpXo91TPNaW8vaxgSRROBpJIDIGwfnTbjvQL2Qd6aJj90MFfHnpO5+FXq12VW/v5pnDSzzMVYOuXOFccmVQcKfeAK5S3hZdMkryf2jM2T7y3OpI2CtqA7xX6wByV5fWHgNxvXkcFzyQn0p0p2QsPdOUCrnnpJ3xyyMYNeWtzuQxBPM6ufv5c/fUtLwgjmMep/hXBeHY8fx/hmll/X9LMojBYNq1doc+fiMHIwRy3r3d8LlcDVKTjwZiR64J5097aIHBkjBH9YUr3cf8ASx/tD/OuXmN6xqH/ADA/3x8q8/mB/vD5VKNeJ/SJ+0K5ter99f2hU3kdcUd+Ym+8PkaKf+2L98fMUVd1OuKuh60K16jeJSRJIggKyIrr9Lg4YBhnK88Gs+I2r6pVu7wL3sM//TLiuuWOnKZbYLwLquv7qeaBYlja3IEzStpRGIyq6lzqJG+2RjBzuMuLnqjv0vY7Rli1zI7xuJPonEYBcBsZBGRsR4itm4mP5N0j9Jf+6oamrne54WTzxNv622T+4VnUXbB73qZ4jFLDEUiZp2ZV0SEhdK6maQlRpUDx9BzIpv0q6rr3h8HbzCF4gQrNFIW0EnSNQYA7nbbNafxnjKWnSBJIXubtpFlS6tI1eU2ilINEkcSryOAW9fhUf1qcIk/Ncs9ldMbJ5TJcWrRrlXe4DOVZk7VGE5y0bHKnUNgNNNQ7VmnCOgl1c2Mt7EI+xiLhtT6XygDNhcY+0PGpeXqd4gtxFbkQa5UlkX6U40xGMNk6djmVcfGr91QQxP0euVuGKQmW4EjjmqaI8kbH91XjiP6Ysv7rff8AEs6dYvavnDpl0Lu+FtD7QUUyiTQYpCT3NOrJwMfWFWHhnRDins1tODbNHcmJY9bd76X6urCjH40266YYBensbqW4cyXBlidiy2z6x9HGMDSOY8fqitZ4N+h+Df2ljVnj0zfKmRdCeJGSSMw2paJUdsTsBh9eMdw7/RmunBeil/cwR3EVvbrHIoeNZpyJHUjIICoQARuN+VarD/129/sLb/xFU/obd+3cMsov5RY3VvEgtpnh7rlbcxiSHtV7OdGiJJUb4yRjZq12og+GdH+IzoXjtII9LvGyyzkOGRijAgIRjIOCCQRg1l3SDoJc21/FZy9mJbgxlAr5T6WQxpqbAx3gfDlWu9Vz3a8c4hDeSmSSOMaiDiNmLoRIsYwqZQryFZfDdu/SSLW7Pp4iirqYtpUXmyjPIDyqW7Dq96kuIRTQRMIS1wzqhWQlQUjMh1nTsNKnHvprcdUd8l9HZHsjNLG0q4kOgIpYEs2NjlfLxFfS/Epl78rc7TW/qDbkn8GPyqDls9XSNH8I+HN8C9yQMfANUGB8U6pL23ura2k7HtLsuIiHJXMYBbUdO2xFd26mr4PcKxgUWqK8rtIQgVkZ9m074VcnyyPOtr49GZZuC3DqyuLl1w6lHXtLeViCrAEfzQ2PkK69aqsnCOINbjLuE7XxIUiKOT0+iGfQk0GJy9SPEFtjcHsOzERmP0h1aAnactPPHhUd0P6sLvicLy23ZaUfszrcqdWlW2GDthhWz9ZMcJ4LCZrmS3ZYCYgjFe3kFsdML4G6t5bVnX5Pt2/507PW2gxSsU1HQW7g1FeWceNA2PULxESCP+T6mVnH0pxhSqn7Pm4qM/6KL32dZ/oezab2cfSHPae0m15Y5doOflWydC7t26Q8WVnZlQR6FLEqmdJOkHZckeFSHHYIU4bCLdy8f5wtzqJydbcUDSjkOUhcfCgg7O64tAkHDYrWDtkt0xcduTGkUeI9b5TZ2K4AAPPPgahrzgN3DLGt4kIE7MEnjkMimQK0hVywDBiqsQeRxzq9cb6Qm14ygME8sctqFdoIZJjEVmcozrGCdJyw2GeVZ71ucJuLWyt3tboycPDr2UWmPMBMcixlJVUF49DuveOR3clicizKj1wbo3d30QuLWKIQsSEeeZ4mmCkjUFRW7uQQNXv2rlZcAv5pbiNLaFHtSqzLJPtlk7RSmlDlSuD8asXVrxIXfCrW2mW4tpYSDbXPYkRuyl+zaGR1MbtpJUoeeGI9050CsrqK44kl/KJpNUOJlVU1w9kwRtKgBTjII8wdzsTe1GbvwDiUiWjRx2iLfBexy7Me9A1wNWRhe4h896av1T8YuGlUyQfROEcCTQMmNJRjSgyNMi861meGJBwJIGLwrIqxOebxjh1wEY7DcqAeQ58qieHXT/8Atbcx627P2QPo1HRqxCurTy1Y2zU2MT6W9CLjhZiW6EeZQ5Ts3LfVKg6sgY+sKsDdS/EBOsOLfW0byD6U40oyI2Tp55kX8aiutG4d+JXwZmYJMyoGYkICVJCg7KM+VfSM/wClIf7pc/8AHtaZYa1ftZnWAcN6nOIXEZkjWAqHljwZcHVFK0L/AGeWpGx7qqXH+DSWVw0FzH2ciYyNmBBGVZWGxBH+XMV9E2kcR4Q5nmEEaX08rSkZC9lxd5QOYxqKBc+GrO/Ksh62+kMN7xMy2zdpGsUcesAhWZS7NpzzHfAz7qYcfa6LnZ5UPtE/0KKcYor0f6v7Z/ymBrb7Hr2slitVktJ2e1VAjBkwHEJhZh3t8qzDfzrD69V5W9NZ4X10xGfiAu7Z2tr47pGwMiDsVt2UkldWqNV3BGDnnnZ1edekTcQtpUglFtbJKoTKdo7SIEDEZwAoGOZ5msdpKbOrYLzrns1vY7u3sWWUswuHYqHliZAuAwJ7wKoRkY7uNs5pv0y627Wfh81nZW80ftDtJK8pXus83bSlQGbOpsjwA1beFZPXQU2vVoHRXrJiteD3Fi0MjPMZSrqV0DWqqM5Ofs+VWi669bdr63uBbT6YYbiIrmPUTK0BBG+MDsj8xWM15JqbOq4dZXS2yvmR7W0aCQvI8ztpzKXwcnSTk5yfjVl4912RGC0hsbVoltpYZAJGBGiHcRqBk78ixOwHmcjJ5fCvFdMZuMXw3Hif5QFt2Mz29tMt1NGqEuV7JSoYKchstp1sfqjPupj0Y667SO1tI7u2maWxAWB4mUqdMLQBmDMuDoYjHeHj6ZRwThbXNzDAmzTSJGDgkDWwXUQN8DOT6VdumfUxccPhjlMqTdpMkIRFYEM4YqSW2AyuPVhWQ+6O9b6QcWvL64gf+UoiCONlbRp0Bcs2NXdQb1Srbjqjii3mltC3YuNG2rSJ+10+WcbVfrn8n64Kti6tmuQiyNbjUCAcgd7OcEowDFcEqap/V/0JfikzwRSJGUQyFnBORqVMDH61BeuMdeEUy3yrBKFuYUjjyUyj6ZFkZjnkQyYx5Gn0XXzai+luDbz4eCCELmPIMcs8jE97ke1T9k1VH6op1tDc9vFpFwbbTpbOoXnserPlq73pXvpj1PTcPtJLiS5hcR6Po1Vg7apFj2z5as/CgsNr19RNBbrcwzPPC6yO6mMKzAsDgZGO62OVE/XjbSm9jltpjBdqqhQyahmHsZc97yVMYPgaqHQnqzlv4JbkzxW1vESpllGxKgFjzACgEZYn9xp1ddT96nEUsgUbtEMqzjIjESkK7MMZ1AlRpGd2XwOaCw8Q64uH3FnHBc2MkpijCqW7MqJBHo1DvVRerTpanDL72iRGkXs3TShGctjB7xxjap7pJ1OT20aSx3MNxE0qwu6DHZO0ohyRkhgJMqRnIO2OeOnSTqPuLSAy+0QytqiVYlBV3aWZIVC6tubj5UDjo71uQ2/Fb68aCZku9ARAU1Lpx9bJx4eFej1wwewpb9hNqS7FyWymNPt5u9PPOdJ0+tLc9QVykbFLq3kuI0WRrcagQDqxhueCUcKSoBKnlvVa4z1cSW3CouINNGyTiLEYVtQ7RSwBJ22waC6ydf0Q4itwtvL2Jg7GRSVDgiQurpg4OMkYJGc89qg+sLrRt7qwjsbKCWKEMGLTEasLkhVAZs95s5J8OVZhXe45J+r/ABoNV6E9cVtb2MFre28z+zOHieIqclXZ01BmXGNRHMg0+sOv2IT3csttJicRrEqMpKpGrKO0JI7xLE7bDlvjJxWig16166LdYuFp2E2bDR2hymH02clsdG/3nB38BTe263YF45LxEwy9nJAIRHlNYI7Pc74x3D4+NZTXStYzaLB0j4tHe3lzPh0SeRnUEAlc4xqA9PCtZHXrbhUuJLOY3SxyRLodewJYo7DVqyoLRqd0JAzjxrDrXlT213OjwfY+48wfgf3nzrlvVdpjLF3uutFZOCy2Lwv28rSu0g0iLVJdNcHAJ1Y72Kzt2qSfgzj7vwOaYTxaWweYpdkkc8miiim00bUZpKWtI90UlLUBXoV4r0tFe80hozQag8vzFeStK/MUrHavRxz8XLL2t/U3adpxu0GMhWkc+7RE7A/MCt16wreeTht0UT6WK4gktwSMMI5YCDz5Ehttq+eegPTH82XftIiEx0OgUvoxqI72cHwBHxq4TdfMzxXcbQZ9pZzGxmJ9mDRqiqgKHUFZdfhuxrkrV5bZ+IKf5/hvERCudLKe5qfRqKkrNEJA+OTDJ+rq3zX8nq30cTuFIIZbZgwONmWeNWG3vFK35Q0gGr2GH2ns+z7ftW07HV/N6c6dRJ06/jVM6A9Yb8NupbgxCdpUZGBfRu0iyFshTndeWPGg3npE0J4WfZgRH7fDkHOe1HFUE57xJwZdZ8t9tqqn5QRstKiUP7boT2cjVoEfbd/VvjONfP3VTJOudjZm29lXBuTc6+1PM3vtmjGjz7mc+/3V36W9dwv7WWFrGJGkXSJe01sg1Bu7mMHw8xzoLj0FVD0UlEjaIyZw7hdRRO27zhftEDJx44q12VhPFxmDt7k3GbO70kxRxaMT2mf5sDOcjn5ViHQbrVNhazWk1sl1BKxbQ0hTGpQHU5VgUOkHGBgknfNSl118TPeW9yLeNTDHLFInaErKkhRmwcZQgxqRzoNHvf0LP/2k3/fgpp11TQLJaEIzcQDxGyG/ZlhcRllfcDflv5+FUDpH12tcQpDDaJbxiZZ5AJNZkZZhcEA6F06pBknBJrv0j69zdwlPYo0kyhjmMnaNEySLIrKDH5qPEUGp3lq/EEfQ1xw3iCwxl1DKcoWlEQkK5WWLWsuCMMN+WcHOum97nonw1eX0qRsPEGJZ0b8Urw/5Q74Z1sYluWjEZn7UkYUsy9zTnSGdjp1eJ3qncb6fLccMhs/ZY0eIxk3IYGSTQGB1DQDvqz9Y8qCrxwrhyWwVAKDSSHOoAjI+rgZO/lRePkgjHwGB8B4VyjlxSO2aDzRRSrjO/L3UAK6qtchzpyH2rrx6+Wa9QNTmLOpfw+VN4gSSURmA3O2SB/Wxt4H5U7SKbXqaOQ4IyAuTuDgAf4T8q42eduky8aPfa3xioy8PfP8ArwqUyf6OX/5bVEXVq7yMVjk54xpOQQBkEee4+dLEl045opHtHBwVcHyKmiml7ONJRRQehS0UVAGvS0UUV6NLRRUHN+Yoeiiu+Hpzy9uVFFFc1drjnXNKKKBWFeKKKIKKKKKKKKKBaSiigKVqKKBKKKKApw1FFBKcGlIVsEjKjkcfaGP3n50sV9JgHtHzjnqPmff7z86Wio05i/kCbSPsrfbbwZseNepbxxqw782+0fvrS0UKaSXT5+u3h9o+VFFFVH//2Q==

 

[8350rocks]

Fact 1. i3-3220 is 20-28% faster in SINGLE THREAD.
Fact 2. Kaveri will struggle with Haswell parts: +10%
Fact 3. i5 has turbo: +15%
Fact 4. i5 has 4 true cores, Kaveri only 2 modules.

Conclusion: Kaveri can fight with i3, but has no chance with i5.

Missing a few key points though: While the module design has overhead, it looks like AMD is addressing the worst of it. Figure maybe 5% performance loss over a "true" independent core, already factored into IPC. So from a performance perspective, Fact 4 repeats fact 1.

I've checked some benchmarks which has single and multithreaded versions and it usually scales worse than Phenom II X4 or i5. AMD's 80% figure is correct.

Secondly, AMD has a form of Turbo too. And its hard to predict when/how long it kicks in. For those reasons, I typically disregard Turbo when doing calculations.

True, but I think it's safe to assume that for single thread both CPUs work on turbo clock.

Thirdly, clock is a factor. You can overcome a ~30% IPC deficit by clocking 30% higher. Which is the approach AMD is taking. The downside, however, is we still have heat concerns much above 4GHz, so that approach won't be able to drive performance improvements long term. Short term though, the extra clock is hiding the IPC deficit.

But Steamroller clock won't be much higher than Piledriver's. 2-5%, I think.

Performance wise? SR is probably going to be close to SB at clocks around 4.5GHz or so, which it looks like AMD will hit. OCing will obviously be limited though, so we'll still have our discussions over which is "better". SR is basically what BD should have been when it was launched.

I agree with that, but it's still not enough to defeat i5 IB with just 2 SR modules.

One final point: Everyone here is overblowing HSA. Big time.

Because people which write in topic with "AMD" in title usually like AMD. Because of that they usually overestimate some things...

1.) You're not using real numbers in your "assumptions", you're using your own best guesstimate.

2.) It's never safe to make assumptions without real world results specific to the conclusion to back it up. Where is your data?

3.) Well, if SR is 5% higher clock than highest PD chips, that means we would be looking @ 4.935 GHz non-turbo core, with a turbo up to ~5.2-5.3 GHz. Are you calculating for that?

4.) You're not accounting for 512 Sp's in the iGPU...I think that's a logical fallacy in and of itself.

EDIT: You're failing to account for software optimization as well...bad code can break a good CPU and good code can make a bad CPU look good. I offer Planetside 2 as an example...it was so poorly optimized at launch that even the top end intel CPUs could not get 60 FPS out of it typically.

 

[8350rocks]

An 8-core, 16 thread Nehalem (One of Intel's best recent products) setup... are you nuts?....

No the nehalem cpu is I put it intels worst recent product in the last decade, bit like netburst.

Also it shows ssd vs hdd.

Why do you feel a need to insult AMD products? Do you really want me to behave like you about Intel? I don't think you do...now either offer something productive to the discussion, or don't offer anything at all...seriously.

 

[gamerk316]

Fact 1. i3-3220 is 20-28% faster in SINGLE THREAD.
Fact 2. Kaveri will struggle with Haswell parts: +10%
Fact 3. i5 has turbo: +15%
Fact 4. i5 has 4 true cores, Kaveri only 2 modules.

Conclusion: Kaveri can fight with i3, but has no chance with i5.

Missing a few key points though: While the module design has overhead, it looks like AMD is addressing the worst of it. Figure maybe 5% performance loss over a "true" independent core, already factored into IPC. So from a performance perspective, Fact 4 repeats fact 1.

Secondly, AMD has a form of Turbo too. And its hard to predict when/how long it kicks in. For those reasons, I typically disregard Turbo when doing calculations.

Thirdly, clock is a factor. You can overcome a ~30% IPC deficit by clocking 30% higher. Which is the approach AMD is taking. The downside, however, is we still have heat concerns much above 4GHz, so that approach won't be able to drive performance improvements long term. Short term though, the extra clock is hiding the IPC deficit.

Performance wise? SR is probably going to be close to SB at clocks around 4.5GHz or so, which it looks like AMD will hit. OCing will obviously be limited though, so we'll still have our discussions over which is "better". SR is basically what BD should have been when it was launched.

One final point: Everyone here is overblowing HSA. Big time.

It never fails to amaze me how industry "professionals" can never seem to embrace new technology or a new way of looking at things. "Everyone here is overblowing HSA. Big time" I'm sure back in the day when fuel injection was being introduced you had a lot of old school mechanics who said the same thing. Never be as reliable and good as a carburetor I'm sure. Funny thing is all cars and trucks now use fuel injection. Just because its not something that you know, or are familiar with or comfortable working with doesn't mean its bad technology. It just means that YOU may have to get some further education and learn how to work with the new technology.

HSA is going to be as important to the computing world as fuel injection was to the automobile industry. It may not be a seamless jump without hitches in the road (fuel injection had its fair share of bugs before being perfected), but once it is perfected it will be the new standard. There are too many large corporations backing HSA development for even Intel to squash.

HSA, from a programming perspective, is no different then OpenCL, Direct3D, OpenGL, and the like: A way to offload processing from the CPU to some other unit. The fact the co-processor is located on the CPU die itself and shares the CPU's memory context is irrelevant. That's all managed deep in the OS kernel/driver land, invisible to the developer.

Will you get a performance speedup due to not needing to copy the memory context and deal with PCI-E latencies? Sure. Is it a game changer for performance? No. HSA is simply the obvious movement that started back when Intel started to put iGPU's on die over a decade ago.

And I note: this is independent of AMD/Intel. HSA isn't a magical silver bullet that some here like to think it is.