AMD CPU speculation... and expert conjecture

[gamerk316]

4.) You're not accounting for 512 Sp's in the iGPU...I think that's a logical fallacy in and of itself.

They have to be used, so again, you're up to the mercy of the CPU scheduler. Nevermind that if the task at hand is mostly serial, those SP's won't even be touched.

 

[szatkus]

Fact 1. i3-3220 is 20-28% faster in SINGLE THREAD.
Fact 2. Kaveri will struggle with Haswell parts: +10%
Fact 3. i5 has turbo: +15%
Fact 4. i5 has 4 true cores, Kaveri only 2 modules.

Conclusion: Kaveri can fight with i3, but has no chance with i5.

Missing a few key points though: While the module design has overhead, it looks like AMD is addressing the worst of it. Figure maybe 5% performance loss over a "true" independent core, already factored into IPC. So from a performance perspective, Fact 4 repeats fact 1.

I've checked some benchmarks which has single and multithreaded versions and it usually scales worse than Phenom II X4 or i5. AMD's 80% figure is correct.

Secondly, AMD has a form of Turbo too. And its hard to predict when/how long it kicks in. For those reasons, I typically disregard Turbo when doing calculations.

True, but I think it's safe to assume that for single thread both CPUs work on turbo clock.

Thirdly, clock is a factor. You can overcome a ~30% IPC deficit by clocking 30% higher. Which is the approach AMD is taking. The downside, however, is we still have heat concerns much above 4GHz, so that approach won't be able to drive performance improvements long term. Short term though, the extra clock is hiding the IPC deficit.

But Steamroller clock won't be much higher than Piledriver's. 2-5%, I think.

Performance wise? SR is probably going to be close to SB at clocks around 4.5GHz or so, which it looks like AMD will hit. OCing will obviously be limited though, so we'll still have our discussions over which is "better". SR is basically what BD should have been when it was launched.

I agree with that, but it's still not enough to defeat i5 IB with just 2 SR modules.

One final point: Everyone here is overblowing HSA. Big time.

Because people which write in topic with "AMD" in title usually like AMD. Because of that they usually overestimate some things...

1.) You're not using real numbers in your "assumptions", you're using your own best guesstimate.

2.) It's never safe to make assumptions without real world results specific to the conclusion to back it up. Where is your data?

My assumptions are based on existing reviews and most recent informations about Steamroller. Without any Steamroller benchmark it's the best estimation I can do.

3.) Well, if SR is 5% higher clock than highest PD chips, that means we would be looking @ 4.935 GHz non-turbo core, with a turbo up to ~5.2-5.3 GHz. Are you calculating for that?

4.4 GHz * 1.05 = 4.62 Ghz

4.) You're not accounting for 512 Sp's in the iGPU...I think that's a logical fallacy in and of itself.

Most software don't use GPGPU.

 

[8350rocks]

4.) You're not accounting for 512 Sp's in the iGPU...I think that's a logical fallacy in and of itself.

They have to be used, so again, you're up to the mercy of the CPU scheduler. Nevermind that if the task at hand is mostly serial, those SP's won't even be touched.

There are more and more examples of software taking advantage of OpenCL/HSA type functions to increase performance...this trend will only continue.

 

[juanrga]

For those interested in performance per watt, I would add that Berlin APU will be a giant leap from the flagship Opteron 6386SE:

The processor boasts four next-generation "Steamroller" cores and will offer almost 8X the gigaflops per-watt compared to current AMD Opteron 6386SE processor. It will be the first server APU built on AMD’s revolutionary Heterogeneous System Architecture (HSA), which enables uniform memory access for the CPU and GPU and makes programming as easy as C++. "Berlin" is expected offer extraordinary compute per-watt that enables massive rack density. It is slated to be available in the first half of 2014.

 

[8350rocks]

Fact 1. i3-3220 is 20-28% faster in SINGLE THREAD.
Fact 2. Kaveri will struggle with Haswell parts: +10%
Fact 3. i5 has turbo: +15%
Fact 4. i5 has 4 true cores, Kaveri only 2 modules.

Conclusion: Kaveri can fight with i3, but has no chance with i5.

Missing a few key points though: While the module design has overhead, it looks like AMD is addressing the worst of it. Figure maybe 5% performance loss over a "true" independent core, already factored into IPC. So from a performance perspective, Fact 4 repeats fact 1.

I've checked some benchmarks which has single and multithreaded versions and it usually scales worse than Phenom II X4 or i5. AMD's 80% figure is correct.

Secondly, AMD has a form of Turbo too. And its hard to predict when/how long it kicks in. For those reasons, I typically disregard Turbo when doing calculations.

True, but I think it's safe to assume that for single thread both CPUs work on turbo clock.

Thirdly, clock is a factor. You can overcome a ~30% IPC deficit by clocking 30% higher. Which is the approach AMD is taking. The downside, however, is we still have heat concerns much above 4GHz, so that approach won't be able to drive performance improvements long term. Short term though, the extra clock is hiding the IPC deficit.

But Steamroller clock won't be much higher than Piledriver's. 2-5%, I think.

Performance wise? SR is probably going to be close to SB at clocks around 4.5GHz or so, which it looks like AMD will hit. OCing will obviously be limited though, so we'll still have our discussions over which is "better". SR is basically what BD should have been when it was launched.

I agree with that, but it's still not enough to defeat i5 IB with just 2 SR modules.

One final point: Everyone here is overblowing HSA. Big time.

Because people which write in topic with "AMD" in title usually like AMD. Because of that they usually overestimate some things...

1.) You're not using real numbers in your "assumptions", you're using your own best guesstimate.

2.) It's never safe to make assumptions without real world results specific to the conclusion to back it up. Where is your data?

My assumptions are based on existing reviews and most recent informations about Steamroller. Without any Steamroller benchmark it's the best estimation I can do.

3.) Well, if SR is 5% higher clock than highest PD chips, that means we would be looking @ 4.935 GHz non-turbo core, with a turbo up to ~5.2-5.3 GHz. Are you calculating for that?

4.4 GHz * 1.05 = 4.62 Ghz

4.) You're not accounting for 512 Sp's in the iGPU...I think that's a logical fallacy in and of itself.

Most software don't use GPGPU.

FX 9590 = 4.7 GHz * 1.05 = 4.935

Also, you are basing your information using Turbo Core, of which you have no practical data. That is my point. You cannot consider Turbo for either one because you cannot reasonably expect how it will behave.

Also, most software like what? Windows 8.1? Linux OS? Mac OS? Solaris? Adobe products? Rendering programs? Media Encoders? Compression programs? Encryption programs? Games? In fact, other than MS Office and Internet browsers, most programs do support OpenCL these days...just to varying degrees.

 

[8350rocks]

8350rocks do you agree then that its not fair to show a higher end ssd on the fx8350 and a low end one on the 3960x. A lot of benchmarks on that openbenchmarking site have ssd vs hdd performance and you use it sometimes to show intel being slow when its nothing to do with the cpu in most cases. Its a bit like me showing a top end steamroller lets say 8 core or 4 core when its released on postgresql bench losing to an i3 3217u by 10x when the SR cpu is using a normal hdd and the 3217u is using the fastest ssd. Those benchmarks mean nothing cpu wise if its hdd or ssd performance.

I am just about done with you...if you don't knock it off, I am going to go on a rant about Intel the likes of which will make your head spin. I would like to add, the things I know about Intel you cannot possibly say anything positive about because it casts them in the absolute worst possible light.

So, having said that, I don't care about your nitpicky rubbish at all. I don't care how you attempt to claim anything is "unfair" because frankly...nothing Intel ever puts out to attempt to show any advantage of any kind is ever "fair" by your same criteria. So you're comparing apples to oranges to begin with. Like the AnTuTu benchmarks they faked recently in a competition vs. ARM processors...and this is just the first in a long line of tricks. In the industry, it's almost a running joke...seriously. No one even looks at Intel's "propaganda" anymore, except naïve consumers, which is sadly their target anyway.

If you were more knowledgeable about how things really are in the PC world, you would know and understand what I am talking about.

I have had it with Intel conversation in this thread, and if you say one more word about any tech company that has a first letter of I in their name, I am going to go nuclear about Intel.

Do you understand?

Am I perfectly clear?

Do you have any questions as to what will happen if you mention Intel again?

Have I left any doubt?

You will get a text wall that will make you extremely depressed and rip the "Intel Inside" poster off the ceiling above your bed...

Understand?

Are we good?

NO MORE INTEL IN THIS THREAD

 

[juanrga]

juangra sandy bridge takes 80% less electricity complete tasks compared to the fx8350.

In magic world of Intel-Land? Maybe. In real world? No

Haswell is even more efficient then ivy bridge the extra tdp is for the igpu.

No. Many independent measurements show that 4770k CPU can consume more power than 3770k CPU.

Haswell takes half the electricity to compete the same task as the fx8350 kilojoules used wise.
http://techreport.com/r.x/core-i7-4770k/power-task-energy.png

In that review they changed their long used x264 software by a different one... optimized for Intel. Use software optimized for AMD and roles will change. Their measurement of energy was also a bit high.

The i7 4770k similar performance to the fx9590 takes 147w more then the i7 4770k.

http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/forum/hardware-canucks-reviews/62166-amd-fx-9590-review-piledriver-5ghz-17.html

The 9590 is an enthusiast line not a mainstream line. It is aimed to enthusiast users with PSU > 1200W. They don't care about power consumption. The 3960x OC to 4.6--4.8 GHz will consume much more power than the 9590.

Oh and one more thing the temash and kabini cpus are so slow in real word tasks its pointless really as 7 year old core 2 duos are faster.

In the magic world of Intel-Land? Sure. In real world even Anand accepts that Jaguar is the best and has not competition. The quote was given above, but please ignore it again.

http://wiki.postgresql.org/wiki/Reliable_Writes

This beats the fx8350 as it has better ssd.
http://openbenchmarking.org/result/1301108-ACAL-CENTOS547

This gets destroyed as it has a slow hdd:
http://openbenchmarking.org/result/1301104-ACAL-CENTOS666

I can't seem to find anymore benchmarks but still you can see the difference betwen a normal hdd score and an ssd.

Different benchmarks with different settings. Your attempt to comparison with the other benchmark is useless.

8350rocks do you agree then that its not fair to show a higher end ssd on the fx8350 and a low end one on the 3960x. A lot of benchmarks on that openbenchmarking site have ssd vs hdd performance and you use it sometimes to show intel being slow when its nothing to do with the cpu in most cases. Its a bit like me showing a top end steamroller lets say 8 core or 4 core when its released on postgresql bench losing to an i3 3217u by 10x when the SR cpu is using a normal hdd and the 3217u is using the fastest ssd. Those benchmarks mean nothing cpu wise if its hdd or ssd performance.

More trolling.

 

[cowboy44mag]

When the fanboyism battle starts the truth is the first "casualty of war". I think everyone on here can agree that right now, at this particular moment in time Intel has a lead over AMD. No one is debating that. The only thing in debate is that lead is not as great as Intel fanboys want to make it sound. Intel fans want to believe that AMD is 6,7,8 years behind Intel and its just not the case. Right now when you take pure computing ability without any bias Piledriver is equal to and slightly edging Sandy Bridge. Yet the Intel fan club is saying that Steamroller won't reach Sandy Bridge. And to back their claims they use bias benchmarks and pretend that the only thing that matters is single core execution while totally dismissing HSA as "junk" technology.

The only other tech debate that draws as much passion is Apple vs Android. You have the Apple fans who basically look at it as I paid more, you get what you pay for so mine is better. And you have the Android fans who point out that their Android can do anything an iPhone can. So which is better? I bet Intel is still kicking themselves for not getting a patent on a square processor with rounded edges!!

When it comes down to it AMD processors can do anything Intel processors can. They can run all the same programs with quality levels that are so close you can't tell which is better by just looking at side by side monitors. When benchmarked the difference isn't measured in hours, as Intel fans like to make it sound, but mere seconds. Intel processors can easily run twice as expensive or more. For twice the cost I want a bigger performance gap than a few seconds LOL!!

 

[juanrga]

HSA, from a programming perspective, is no different then OpenCL, Direct3D, OpenGL, and the like: A way to offload processing from the CPU to some other unit. The fact the co-processor is located on the CPU die itself and shares the CPU's memory context is irrelevant. That's all managed deep in the OS kernel/driver land, invisible to the developer.

HSA != OpenCL...

A current problem with GPGPU is that programming model is different than for CPU. HSA solves that simplifying programmers job. Moreover HUMA allows both the CPU and GPU to work collectively, eliminating bottlenecks/latencies associated to PCI and the extra cycles spent on reading/writing/copying data from CPU to GPU and viceversa.

I agree with that, but it's still not enough to defeat i5 IB with just 2 SR modules.

Take Richland CPU scores add a 20% better performance, and you obtain i5 IB CPU level for several benchmarks. It is easy. Isn't?

Most software don't use GPGPU.

I gave a slide showing the exponential increase in software supporting GPU acceleration: web browsers, compression software, image editing...

This will include software which is now under active development: games, spreadsheets...

There are software, such as word processing that will not benefit from GPU, but that is the kind of software for which even Celerons and A4s have enough performance. Or do you need a 9590 or a 3960x to write a letter in Word/Writer?

 

[Cazalan]

So you think the fact that Intel CPUs don't support FMA4 and XOP has nothing to do with a benchmark that runs that code heavily. How did you come to this conclusion? Picking up on Cazalan's incorrect speculation? Notice he hasn't said anything about it since it was pointed out that the benchmark uses code instructions that Intel doesn't support?

Actually I was the one that first pointed out the FMA support as a possible reason for the disparity. Later I found a much slower Sandy bridge Mac with SSD that broke that theory having over 4k score.

As I said before the only way to isolate the CPU on that test is if you ran it from a RAMDisk. I dropped talking about it because the benchmark is too specific to be useful.

 

[noob2222]

juangra sandy bridge takes 80% less electricity complete tasks compared to the fx8350. Haswell is even more efficient then ivy bridge the extra tdp is for the igpu. Haswell takes half the electricity to compete the same task as the fx8350 kilojoules used wise.
http://techreport.com/r.x/core-i7-4770k/power-task-energy.png

The i7 4770k similar performance to the fx9590 takes 147w more then the i7 4770k.

http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/forum/hardware-canucks-reviews/62166-amd-fx-9590-review-piledriver-5ghz-17.html

Oh and one more thing the temash and kabini cpus are so slow in real word tasks its pointless really as 7 year old core 2 duos are faster.

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

+1

I especially love the TR efficiency testing method. x264 only.

We've devised a new x264 test, which involves one of the latest builds of the encoder with AVX2 and FMA support.

seeing as x264 is open source, does that mean their version is compiled with ICC? such that intel cpus use the avx2 and fma support while AMD is reduced to sse2?
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=158934

Id say the chances are high.

 

[noob2222]

Fact 1. i3-3220 is 20-28% faster in SINGLE THREAD.
Fact 2. Kaveri will struggle with Haswell parts: +10%
Fact 3. i5 has turbo: +15%
Fact 4. i5 has 4 true cores, Kaveri only 2 modules.

Conclusion: Kaveri can fight with i3, but has no chance with i5.

Missing a few key points though: While the module design has overhead, it looks like AMD is addressing the worst of it. Figure maybe 5% performance loss over a "true" independent core, already factored into IPC. So from a performance perspective, Fact 4 repeats fact 1.

I've checked some benchmarks which has single and multithreaded versions and it usually scales worse than Phenom II X4 or i5. AMD's 80% figure is correct.

Fact 3: Wrong. single thread turbo, 3.4ghz base, 3.8 ghz max, 11.7%
multicore turbo, base 3.4 ghz, max 3.5-3.6 ghz or 3-6%

using 15% overinflates the i5 considerably especially on multicore.

SR is supposed to increase module scaling by 5-10%, though likely thats primarily going to be on the ALU side of things.

The biggest unknown with kaveri will be clock speeds and the new 28nm from GF. Will kaveri catch the i5? not likely unless clocks are really high. Will kaveri close the performance gap? yes.

 

[gamerk316]

A current problem with GPGPU is that programming model is different than for CPU. HSA solves that simplifying programmers job. Moreover HUMA allows both the CPU and GPU to work collectively, eliminating bottlenecks/latencies associated to PCI and the extra cycles spent on reading/writing/copying data from CPU to GPU and viceversa.

Which, in the grand scheme of things, doesn't have THAT huge an impact on performance. Latencies, yes, adding a ms or two worth of delay. But absolute performance? Not much; maybe a tenth of a FPS or so.

Also remember the downsides: You have to hope the scheduler never assigns a serial task to a GPGPU core, or vice versa. Whats the cost of a branch mis-prediction inside the APU rather then the CPU? Cache latency timings between the CPU/APU?

 

[szatkus]

FX 9590 = 4.7 GHz * 1.05 = 4.935

We are talking about APU, not Centurion.

Also, you are basing your information using Turbo Core, of which you have no practical data. That is my point. You cannot consider Turbo for either one because you cannot reasonably expect how it will behave.

Ok, you're right, Turbo is usually unpredictable.

Also, most software like what? Windows 8.1? Linux OS? Mac OS? Solaris? Adobe products? Rendering programs? Media Encoders? Compression programs? Encryption programs? Games? In fact, other than MS Office and Internet browsers, most programs do support OpenCL these days...just to varying degrees.

Almost nothing supports OpenCL these days. Few games, Photoshop for some filters, Bitcoin miners. The most CPU intensive applications I use doesn't support OpenCL.

 

[gamerk316]

+1

I especially love the TR efficiency testing method. x264 only.

We've devised a new x264 test, which involves one of the latest builds of the encoder with AVX2 and FMA support.

seeing as x264 is open source, does that mean their version is compiled with ICC? such that intel cpus use the avx2 and fma support while AMD is reduced to sse2?
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=158934

Id say the chances are high.

I confirmed a few pages back that the 'official' x264 release was compiled against MSVC. Straight C/C++ can be compiled against basically any IDE/Compiler without modification, hence why these projects typically don't have project files included with the release.

 

[hcl123]

I already showed that benchmark 8350rocks postgre sql or whatever is called relies on the hdd or ssd performance for scores. My brother showed me an arrandale one score like 4000 on the same benchmark I believe the i7 3960x got like 300 was it and fx8350 got like 2500 if I remember correctly and the i3 3217u got like 500 with hdd and ssd cache. 3960x got the ancient first gen ssd. I am supposedly biased when amd fanboys use ssd benchmarks to prove there fx8350 is like 8x faster then the i7 3960x when its a load of nonsense. Put it this way I am so confident I am right that the score has very little to do with the cpu that the moderators can ban me if I am wrong about this benchmark being heavily reliant on the storage drive speed.

I don't pretend to know the PostGre engine well... but you ARE WRONG

Usually "database engines" run their data loads from DRAM not "disks". That is, when the engine starts one of its databases, it launches all its "records" into DRAM memory (small databases like in that test so need small DRAM space, but BIG ones need big DRAM space, virtual memory files or "swap" partitions on disks wont do (edt)). That is why even those 1 socket (1P) servers can have up to 16 DIMM slots... its special for databases(other cases also apply)... its usual to have those 1P or 2P "smaller" database servers with 128 or 256GB(or more) of memory. Good luck deploying a database server and relying on disks, even SSDs, to serve a lot of clients well.

 

[Cazalan]

PGBench should be dropped like SuperPI from meaningful discussions.

http://www.postgresql.org/docs/9.1/static/pgbench.html

"It is very easy to use pgbench to produce completely meaningless numbers. "

"A limitation of pgbench is that it can itself become the bottleneck when trying to test a large number of client sessions. This can be alleviated by running pgbench on a different machine from the database server, although low network latency will be essential. "

 

[8350rocks]

FX 9590 = 4.7 GHz * 1.05 = 4.935

We are talking about APU, not Centurion.

Also, you are basing your information using Turbo Core, of which you have no practical data. That is my point. You cannot consider Turbo for either one because you cannot reasonably expect how it will behave.

Ok, you're right, Turbo is usually unpredictable.

Also, most software like what? Windows 8.1? Linux OS? Mac OS? Solaris? Adobe products? Rendering programs? Media Encoders? Compression programs? Encryption programs? Games? In fact, other than MS Office and Internet browsers, most programs do support OpenCL these days...just to varying degrees.

Almost nothing supports OpenCL these days. Few games, Photoshop for some filters, Bitcoin miners. The most CPU intensive applications I use doesn't support OpenCL.

1.) We are talking about PD Cores vs. SR cores...you think there won't be a SR FX series? Because the consensus from AMD is that it is indeed coming...

2.) OpenCL Programs:

-Adobe Photoshop
-Adobe Premiere Pro
-AIDA64
-Battlefield 3
-Final Cut Pro X
-Corel Video Studio
-Darktable
-Handbrake
-HMPP Workbench
-Image Magick
-Indigo Renderer
-LuxMark software
-MAGIX Movie Edit
-Mathematica 8
-Mental RAY
-Movie Studio HD 11
-MulticoreWare
-Linux OS
-Mac OS
-Windows 8.1
-H.264/AVC Pro Encoder
-Panorama Maker Pro 6
-Par4All
-PhotoMonkee
-POV-RAY
-PowerDirector
-ReconstructMe
-Ruby
-Stage Presence
-THEIA RT
-TotalMedia Theatre 5
-Triton Ocean SDK
-Vantage Transcode
-Vegas Pro 11
-Viewdle Face Recognition
-VLC Media Player
-V-RAY
-vReveal
-WinZip
-7zip
-WinRAR
-Wireless Security Auditor

Additionally CLCC is the Open Source OpenCL compiler for x86

 

[juanrga]

A current problem with GPGPU is that programming model is different than for CPU. HSA solves that simplifying programmers job. Moreover HUMA allows both the CPU and GPU to work collectively, eliminating bottlenecks/latencies associated to PCI and the extra cycles spent on reading/writing/copying data from CPU to GPU and viceversa.

Which, in the grand scheme of things, doesn't have THAT huge an impact on performance. Latencies, yes, adding a ms or two worth of delay. But absolute performance? Not much; maybe a tenth of a FPS or so.

Do you mean for ordinary games designed to maintain CPU and GPU interacting the less possible and minimizing the PCI bottleneck/latency? Or HSA enabled games where both CPU and GPU work together to move certain tasks.?

Also remember the downsides: You have to hope the scheduler never assigns a serial task to a GPGPU core, or vice versa. Whats the cost of a branch mis-prediction inside the APU rather then the CPU? Cache latency timings between the CPU/APU?

Do you believe that tasks will be assigned arbitrarily to heterogeneous cores? I don't.

+1

I especially love the TR efficiency testing method. x264 only.

We've devised a new x264 test, which involves one of the latest builds of the encoder with AVX2 and FMA support.

seeing as x264 is open source, does that mean their version is compiled with ICC? such that intel cpus use the avx2 and fma support while AMD is reduced to sse2?
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=158934

Id say the chances are high.

I confirmed a few pages back that the 'official' x264 release was compiled against MSVC. Straight C/C++ can be compiled against basically any IDE/Compiler without modification, hence why these projects typically don't have project files included with the release.

I didn't wrote that.

 

[szatkus]

FX 9590 = 4.7 GHz * 1.05 = 4.935

We are talking about APU, not Centurion.

Also, you are basing your information using Turbo Core, of which you have no practical data. That is my point. You cannot consider Turbo for either one because you cannot reasonably expect how it will behave.

Ok, you're right, Turbo is usually unpredictable.

Also, most software like what? Windows 8.1? Linux OS? Mac OS? Solaris? Adobe products? Rendering programs? Media Encoders? Compression programs? Encryption programs? Games? In fact, other than MS Office and Internet browsers, most programs do support OpenCL these days...just to varying degrees.

Almost nothing supports OpenCL these days. Few games, Photoshop for some filters, Bitcoin miners. The most CPU intensive applications I use doesn't support OpenCL.

1.) We are talking about PD Cores vs. SR cores...you think there won't be a SR FX series? Because the consensus from AMD is that it is indeed coming...

At that point we were talking about APU and i5. Read carefully, context is important.

2.) OpenCL Programs:

-Adobe Photoshop
-Adobe Premiere Pro
-AIDA64
-Battlefield 3
-Final Cut Pro X
-Corel Video Studio
-Darktable
-Handbrake
-HMPP Workbench
-Image Magick
-Indigo Renderer
-LuxMark software
-MAGIX Movie Edit
-Mathematica 8
-Mental RAY
-Movie Studio HD 11
-MulticoreWare
-Linux OS
-Mac OS
-Windows 8.1
-H.264/AVC Pro Encoder
-Panorama Maker Pro 6
-Par4All
-PhotoMonkee
-POV-RAY
-PowerDirector
-ReconstructMe
-Ruby
-Stage Presence
-THEIA RT
-TotalMedia Theatre 5
-Triton Ocean SDK
-Vantage Transcode
-Vegas Pro 11
-Viewdle Face Recognition
-VLC Media Player
-V-RAY
-vReveal
-WinZip
-7zip
-WinRAR
-Wireless Security Auditor

Additionally CLCC is the Open Source OpenCL compiler for x86

[/quotemsg]
It's not big number. And some of them even doesn't support OpenCL :>

 

[8350rocks]

FX 9590 tested thoroughly:

http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/forum/hardware-canucks-reviews/62166-amd-fx-9590-review-piledriver-5ghz-16.html

Who was talking about Company of Heroes 2 not doing well on AMD systems? They must have been crazy...

Overclocking results, as I know you're all interested to hear:

They could get 5.0 GHz fulltime OC on all cores stable, They could get 5.2 GHz to boot, but it would restart on completion of boot....no BSOD or fatal errors, so they imagine that the MB they had just didn't have the juice to push the chip any further...

This means if you're going for big numbers on the 9590 on the OC, you need to get a meaty board, like an Asus Crosshair, or perhaps a good solid Gigabyte board. You need some monster VRMs and very well built construction to hold up with any extreme OC. Also, they went to some pretty high end air coolers to get those results...(Noctua NH-U14)...they said to expect a follow up article with a high end water cooling setup in the near future.

 

[8350rocks]

FX 9590 = 4.7 GHz * 1.05 = 4.935

We are talking about APU, not Centurion.

Also, you are basing your information using Turbo Core, of which you have no practical data. That is my point. You cannot consider Turbo for either one because you cannot reasonably expect how it will behave.

Ok, you're right, Turbo is usually unpredictable.

Also, most software like what? Windows 8.1? Linux OS? Mac OS? Solaris? Adobe products? Rendering programs? Media Encoders? Compression programs? Encryption programs? Games? In fact, other than MS Office and Internet browsers, most programs do support OpenCL these days...just to varying degrees.

Almost nothing supports OpenCL these days. Few games, Photoshop for some filters, Bitcoin miners. The most CPU intensive applications I use doesn't support OpenCL.

1.) We are talking about PD Cores vs. SR cores...you think there won't be a SR FX series? Because the consensus from AMD is that it is indeed coming...

At that point we were talking about APU and i5. Read carefully, context is important.

2.) OpenCL Programs:

-Adobe Photoshop
-Adobe Premiere Pro
-AIDA64
-Battlefield 3
-Final Cut Pro X
-Corel Video Studio
-Darktable
-Handbrake
-HMPP Workbench
-Image Magick
-Indigo Renderer
-LuxMark software
-MAGIX Movie Edit
-Mathematica 8
-Mental RAY
-Movie Studio HD 11
-MulticoreWare
-Linux OS
-Mac OS
-Windows 8.1
-H.264/AVC Pro Encoder
-Panorama Maker Pro 6
-Par4All
-PhotoMonkee
-POV-RAY
-PowerDirector
-ReconstructMe
-Ruby
-Stage Presence
-THEIA RT
-TotalMedia Theatre 5
-Triton Ocean SDK
-Vantage Transcode
-Vegas Pro 11
-Viewdle Face Recognition
-VLC Media Player
-V-RAY
-vReveal
-WinZip
-7zip
-WinRAR
-Wireless Security Auditor

Additionally CLCC is the Open Source OpenCL compiler for x86

It's not big number. And some of them even doesn't support OpenCL :>

Which ones do not support OpenCL? That list came off OpenCL organization's website...plus, there were many others...but some were SDK's and other things which were more aimed at science communities and developers.

 

[griptwister]

IMO, this FX 9590 is what SteamRoller performance will be, except with higher power consumption. Also, I found this...

http://www.rwlabs.com/newsitem.php?id=6829

I'm looking forward to buying a v8 in the future. I'll wait for the price to drop a little first. (If I wanted to burn my wallet, I'd buy an Intel CPU)

 

[The Q6660 Inside]

That benchmark deals with lots of writes I believe hence top end ssd destroys hdds or low performing ssd. Is it so hard for people to understand, I am not on about intel or amd being better on these benchmarks just the ssd performance vs hdd or slow ssd.

IMO, this FX 9590 is what SteamRoller performance will be, except with higher power consumption. Also, I found this...

http://www.rwlabs.com/newsitem.php?id=6829

I'm looking forward to buying a v8 in the future. I'll wait for the price to drop a little first. (If I wanted to burn my wallet, I'd buy an Intel CPU)

NOM NOM, I WANT ME A V10 :3!

 

[sarinaide]

Well the FX9590 has been met with rather muted acceptance but I think there are a few impressive features;

To run 5ghz across all 8 cores at the voltage needed and the total power used is actually good considering a 4.5ghz 3930K uses more power. On the benching side a lot of benches show it competitive with i7's and Intel Extreme processors and it cannot claim core advantage as the Extremes have 12 vs 8 threads so that aspect is impressive, one other feature I liked was that at 5.2ghz the most that HS/f used in the HWC benches could handle at those clocks the 9590 was around 15-20% faster than its baseclock speed so perhaps its reached that point where the massive clocks overcame the IPC limitations on the architecture.

Pricing wise its hard to knock AMD choosing that mark albeit I think maybe $500 and $330 respectively would have been better publicity but again these are not average joe chips.