AMD CPU speculation... and expert conjecture

[GOM3RPLY3R]

Some news,

Best bundle known to man : http://www.tomshardware.com/news/amd-never-settle-forever-radeon-far-cry-3-deus-ex,23882.html

Intel learned from their IHS issues (Late, but still...): http://www.tomshardware.com/news/Intel-Core-i-74960X,23270.html

Yeah...HD 7990 @ $699 + 3 free games worth $150 = HD 7990 for $549...who wouldn't buy that if they were looking at anything even remotely close...

EDIT: Sapphire Atomic HD 7990 inbound too: http://www.techpowerup.com/187162/sapphire-radeon-hd-7990-atomic-pcb-and-cooling-solution-pictured.html

7990 has\will continue to have 8 free games.

Spoiler

http://www.anandtech.com/show/7218/amd-announces-never-settle-forever-bundle
www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814202036

Excuse me as I flip my table:

(╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻

*puts it back* ┬──┬◡ﾉ(° -°ﾉ)
.
.
.
*throws Q6660* (╯°Д°）╯︵/(.□ . \)

OW! You mad that you don't have an excuse to go 780 SLI anymore ?

No, still going for that. ^_^

*Throws Radeon HD 5570* (*・_・)ノ⌒ □

EDIT: Even though AMD excels in Open CL / GL, most of the games I play use PhysX or Direct X. Plus the card overall is much stronger than the 7970.

 

[8350rocks]

8!?!?! That's like getting the card for the price of a HD 7950...LOL...WOW!!!

Now would be the perfect time to upgrade your GPU... What are your specs?

Sapphire HD 7870XT @ 1100 MHz

 

[The Q6660 Inside]

8!?!?! That's like getting the card for the price of a HD 7950...LOL...WOW!!!

Now would be the perfect time to upgrade your GPU... What are your specs?

Sapphire HD 7870XT @ 1100 MHz

Might wanna get the 7990 and sell your 7870XT. Other specs :3?

 

[The Q6660 Inside]

Some news,

Best bundle known to man : http://www.tomshardware.com/news/amd-never-settle-forever-radeon-far-cry-3-deus-ex,23882.html

Intel learned from their IHS issues (Late, but still...): http://www.tomshardware.com/news/Intel-Core-i-74960X,23270.html

Yeah...HD 7990 @ $699 + 3 free games worth $150 = HD 7990 for $549...who wouldn't buy that if they were looking at anything even remotely close...

EDIT: Sapphire Atomic HD 7990 inbound too: http://www.techpowerup.com/187162/sapphire-radeon-hd-7990-atomic-pcb-and-cooling-solution-pictured.html

7990 has\will continue to have 8 free games.

Spoiler

http://www.anandtech.com/show/7218/amd-announces-never-settle-forever-bundle
www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814202036

Excuse me as I flip my table:

(╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻

*puts it back* ┬──┬◡ﾉ(° -°ﾉ)
.
.
.
*throws Q6660* (╯°Д°）╯︵/(.□ . \)

OW! You mad that you don't have an excuse to go 780 SLI anymore ?

No, still going for that. ^_^

*Throws Radeon HD 5570* (*・_・)ノ⌒ □

EDIT: Even though AMD excels in Open CL / GL, most of the games I play use PhysX or Direct X. Plus the card overall is much stronger than the 7970.

7990>780 in value terms. The 7990 is a good card and delivers good frames, although that is a sorteh good excuse .

 

[palladin9479]

BD was AMD's attempt at modularizing their CPU design's. I mean that from an engineering point of view, being able to easily take pieces out and put other pieces into their architecture rather then having a tightly coupled design. It went about as well as could be expected considering the size of task they took on. Traditionally CPU's are designed to be implemented as a whole with respect to things like memory unit / caching and instruction dispatchers. Their hardwired for maximum performance at the expense of scalability. Going with a modular design allows you to scale up / down easily yet also prevents you from getting the best efficiency (what people keep referring to as IPC).

This is seen in the recent console design wins. Customer A wants a semi-custom part, instead of having to design a new chip they can use their modular approach to produce a chip for significantly less cost (R&D). Different customer wants a slightly different chip, again comparatively little money required to provide that product.

The big downside is there is a huge upfront cost coupled with a steep learning curve to get it right. That is what we're seeing right now.

 

[griptwister]

If I could afford the HD 7990 altogether, I would buy one right now. But since I can't. I'll keep waiting. Who Knows... the HD 9990 might go on sale like dis one day... LOL

2 7990s > 2 GTX 780

 

[GOM3RPLY3R]

Spoiler

Some news,

Best bundle known to man : http://www.tomshardware.com/news/amd-never-settle-forever-radeon-far-cry-3-deus-ex,23882.html

Intel learned from their IHS issues (Late, but still...): http://www.tomshardware.com/news/Intel-Core-i-74960X,23270.html

Yeah...HD 7990 @ $699 + 3 free games worth $150 = HD 7990 for $549...who wouldn't buy that if they were looking at anything even remotely close...

EDIT: Sapphire Atomic HD 7990 inbound too: http://www.techpowerup.com/187162/sapphire-radeon-hd-7990-atomic-pcb-and-cooling-solution-pictured.html

7990 has\will continue to have 8 free games.

Spoiler

http://www.anandtech.com/show/7218/amd-announces-never-settle-forever-bundle
www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814202036

Excuse me as I flip my table:

(╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻

*puts it back* ┬──┬◡ﾉ(° -°ﾉ)
.
.
.
*throws Q6660* (╯°Д°）╯︵/(.□ . \)

OW! You mad that you don't have an excuse to go 780 SLI anymore ?

No, still going for that. ^_^

*Throws Radeon HD 5570* (*・_・)ノ⌒ □

EDIT: Even though AMD excels in Open CL / GL, most of the games I play use PhysX or Direct X. Plus the card overall is much stronger than the 7970.

7990>780 in value terms. The 7990 is a good card and delivers good frames, although that is a sorteh good excuse .

Well... No. lol.

I respect the 7990, however I like single card GPUs better for the pure fact of wattage and heat. Other than that (everyone says this is false, but its NOT), i'd rather have my PhysX and Direct X run better, whilst keeping low temps.

Running off of GPU Boss's score: 7990 vs 780 :the 7990 is better, but the 780 isn't completely dead compared to it.

Honestly, with the DCUII 780, I should definitely be able to pull off a heavy overclock and voltage to come close to, equal, or even out perform the 7990, while keeping it cool. Not to mention the wind tunnel airflow im going to have. 5 going in, 6 going out. Slight vacuum, and every fan is not giving mercy to below 70% usage. :3

 

[palladin9479]

I'm about to upgrade to 2 780 Hydro's here shortly. The primary reason I tend to go with NVidia is that EVGA's factory installed WC cards are amazing. I was seriously impressed with their 580 Hydros and they never slowed down since.

 

[cowboy44mag]

BD was AMD's attempt at modularizing their CPU design's. I mean that from an engineering point of view, being able to easily take pieces out and put other pieces into their architecture rather then having a tightly coupled design. It went about as well as could be expected considering the size of task they took on. Traditionally CPU's are designed to be implemented as a whole with respect to things like memory unit / caching and instruction dispatchers. Their hardwired for maximum performance at the expense of scalability. Going with a modular design allows you to scale up / down easily yet also prevents you from getting the best efficiency (what people keep referring to as IPC).

This is seen in the recent console design wins. Customer A wants a semi-custom part, instead of having to design a new chip they can use their modular approach to produce a chip for significantly less cost (R&D). Different customer wants a slightly different chip, again comparatively little money required to provide that product.

The big downside is there is a huge upfront cost coupled with a steep learning curve to get it right. That is what we're seeing right now.

+1 just wanted to say one of the best comments I have read on this thread.

I was taught at a very early age to never buy the first model run of anything, as the first model year is usually plagued with bugs and unforeseeable issues. Considering the issues BD had PD was an impressive second generation. That is why we are all looking forward to Steamroller. The "learning curve" should be there and with the improvements in arch the 3rd generation BD (Steamroller) should be very impressive.

 

[Cazalan]

Given that Intel will not be shrinking to 14nm FinFET until 2015...AMD may actually gain a process advantage over Intel by that time, as 14nm FD-SOI > 14nm bulk FinFET in terms of both power consumption and performance. Additionally, based on the projections of GF, the 14nm bulk FinFET may actually mean the die is more costly for Intel.


The most interesting bit in the read is how abysmal Nvidia is actually doing. Their roadmap has literally nothing to compete with AMDs new cards until late next year at the earliest. The even cancelled the Maxwell update that was supposed to come in the Spring.

They are literally floundering like a beached whale.

We can hope GF gets 20nm going quicker than they did 28nm, but until we see some 28nm I won't hold my breath. There's a big difference between making a tiny ARM SoC and the 1.4 billion transistor Kaveri.


NVidia isn't doing abysmal, far from it. They're profitable, have TONS of cash and zero debt. More cash (3 Billion) than AMD is even worth (2.75 B). The Tegra is still a wash but their GPU division is compensating for that with increased sales.


AMD's failures in the last year have had little to do with NVidia or even Intel for that matter. There is more than enough room for 2 discrete GPU companies and 2 x86 companies in the market place. AMD lost 1 BILLION dollars due to a poor contract with GF. Their own management made that negotiation not NVidia or Intel. Now they are looking to turn those mistakes around and return to profitability in Q3.

 

[sarinaide]

http://flyingsuicide.net/news/amd-winner-in-q2-intel-up-nvidia-down/

Interesting article shows the move towards system on chip, and that Tamash and Kabini have had a effect.

 

[juanrga]

In a perfect world where only technological stuff matters, Bulldozer is a bad architecture. But when one puts Bulldozer in an economic, legal, and managing context, then it looks very much as the only move that AMD could do.

In any case this is the past; upcoming Steamroller is very much Bulldozer made right.

I find this statement to be fallacious, data proves this was a bad choice over cost and performance. Maybe steamroller will finally make Amd some money instead of charging less for more transistors.

What data? Compared to what?

And do you really doubt that AMD earn money from Steamroller?

8350rocks, that chart basically says Amd can start production on steamroller using 28nm today and we could have them around 3 months or so, i hope Amd doesn't wait for 20nm we know GF will delay that design.

Steamroller is 28nm and Kaveri is selling to OEMs this Q4. Berlin is tracked to H1 2014

 

[gamerk316]

No idea why we moved to GPU's, but frankly, at $399, the 770 GTX is hard to beat, especially given how well they OC. You can typically get close to 780 performance. Now take a second one and SLI for the same cost of a single 780 GTX.

 

[juanrga]

28nm production is ramping up, that's why Kaveri is taking just a tad longer...AMD couldn't resist the power saving features and increased performance...especially considering reduced costs per die.

20nm is going to be excavator. If they keep that on track, we could see excavator as early as Q4 next year.

I expect that once the 28nm FD-SOI process is mature and yields are good enough, we will see the return of the FX series or a rename to Phenom III with a SR product featuring 4/6/8 cores.

AMD likely is not committing to it publicly as they certainly don't want the press to be able to rip them if they cannot deliver on time. Especially considering the positive momentum that they have built as of late.

AMD claimed that all its 28nm products (including Kaveri) are going bulk

http://www.brightsideofnews.com/news/2012/3/6/amd-ditches-soi-kaveri-goes-bulk-at-gf2c-more-details-from-the-new-wsa.aspx

Do you have a source to Kaveri going SOI?

Regarding the FX Steamroller/Phenom III rumour. I continue without buying that, by reasons explained before. Some days ago you wrote:

Additionally...I expect to have some insider news on this soon...stay tuned.

Something new?

 

[8350rocks]

8!?!?! That's like getting the card for the price of a HD 7950...LOL...WOW!!!

Now would be the perfect time to upgrade your GPU... What are your specs?

Sapphire HD 7870XT @ 1100 MHz

Might wanna get the 7990 and sell your 7870XT. Other specs :3?

M5A97 R2.0 (I donated my old board to my brother's build)
FX 8350 @ 4.5
8 GB DDR3-2400 MHz RAM (G.Skill Ripjaws X) running in "overclocked state" @ 2133 MHz
1 TB WD Caviar Blue 64 MB Cache
HD 7870XT @ 1100 MHz
CM 212 EVO
Gigabyte Case with 4 case fans
CM Silent Pro M2 620W PSU

 

[sarinaide]

John Peddie Research Quarterly Failed link from earlier. Quarterly statistics.

So I decided to make a change:

Phenom II x 6 1100T (Golden Sample chip does 4.4ghz @ 1.45v)
MSI 990FX GD80 R2.0
Corsair Vengeance Pro 16GB DDR3 1600 (one blue and one grey kit)
Corsair HX1050 with MDPC sleeving.
H100i
2xHD6970
1xOCZ Vertex 4 60GB (OS only)
2xMomentus XT 750GB Storage drives
CM690II Advanced USB3.0

 

[GOM3RPLY3R]

Spoiler

8!?!?! That's like getting the card for the price of a HD 7950...LOL...WOW!!!

Now would be the perfect time to upgrade your GPU... What are your specs?

Sapphire HD 7870XT @ 1100 MHz

Might wanna get the 7990 and sell your 7870XT. Other specs :3?

M5A97 R2.0 (I donated my old board to my brother's build)
FX 8350 @ 4.5
8 GB DDR3-2400 MHz RAM (G.Skill Ripjaws X) running in "overclocked state" @ 2133 MHz
1 TB WD Caviar Blue 64 MB Cache
HD 7870XT @ 1100 MHz
CM 212 EVO
Gigabyte Case with 4 case fans
CM Silent Pro M2 620W PSU

Throw a H80 or H100i on there in push / pull, or just push, and you can probably get that sucker up to 5.0, maybe even 5.2. (* o *) :3

 

[griptwister]

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/dual-graphics-crossfire-benchmark,3583-9.html

I swear Tom's is payed to make AMD look bad. They didn't use Cat 13.8.

@8350rocks, I wish my brother would donate his old mobo to me... lol

I can't wait for the HD 9970!

 

[The Q6660 Inside]

You have to be mad to get two 7990s over two 780's. Unless you have over a 1000w psu the 7990's won't run at all properly. 780's will run better even on a 600w psu. 2x 7990's will take about 840w for two of these while two 780's will take like 440w. Yes the 4 gpus in the 7990s will just about beat the 780's in sli but your computer will have to be optimised to run all the cards in games and thats very hard to see benefits in fps in games so two 780's will most likely win in a lot of games and you will have wasted money on the 7990's.

Power consumption does not matter on a high end PC. I admit Quadfire is broken (and so is Tri+ SLI). A 7990 will work on a good 650W PSU, and so will a 780. Dual 780s should need at least a 850W PSU. Dual 7990s will theoretically destroy the 2x 780s for the price of one, but Quadfire (And its equivalent Quad-SLI is broken).

As for a single 7990, you would have to be mad to get a 780 when you are concerned on value for money and not planning to SLI them. Dual 780s>7990, in value terms flip it the other way around. You have to remember that selling the 8 games that come with the 7990 will give you ~$450 and you will essentially get a 7990 for ~$300. The 7990 with the 8 free games is a better value, end of story.

@GOM3R, The H100i<<<<NH-D14 all day every day.

 

[rmpumper]

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/dual-graphics-crossfire-benchmark,3583-9.html

I swear Tom's is payed to make AMD look bad. They didn't use Cat 13.8.

Yeah. Let's just ignore the fact that AMD themselves said that 13.8 does not improve dual graphics with APUs.

"You'll notice that we're using the Catalyst 13.6 Beta 2 driver instead of Catalyst 13.8 Beta, which adds a frame pacing feature for smoother, more consistent output. AMD tells us that the new driver does not affect Dual Graphics configurations. It only works with multiple discrete GPUs. Rest assured that the configuration we're presenting is as up to date as possible."

Stupid fanboy conspiracy theorists. At least read the damn article first.

 

[The Q6660 Inside]

John Peddie Research Quarterly Failed link from earlier. Quarterly statistics.

So I decided to make a change:

Phenom II x 6 1100T (Golden Sample chip does 4.4ghz @ 1.45v)
MSI 990FX GD80 R2.0
Corsair Vengeance Pro 16GB DDR3 1600 (one blue and one grey kit)
Corsair HX1050 with MDPC sleeving.
H100i
2xHD6970
1xOCZ Vertex 4 60GB (OS only)
2xMomentus XT 750GB Storage drives
CM690II Advanced USB3.0

Pics? I love that you change hardware so often, they are like legos to you.

 

[8350rocks]

Spoiler

8!?!?! That's like getting the card for the price of a HD 7950...LOL...WOW!!!

Now would be the perfect time to upgrade your GPU... What are your specs?

Sapphire HD 7870XT @ 1100 MHz

Might wanna get the 7990 and sell your 7870XT. Other specs :3?

M5A97 R2.0 (I donated my old board to my brother's build)
FX 8350 @ 4.5
8 GB DDR3-2400 MHz RAM (G.Skill Ripjaws X) running in "overclocked state" @ 2133 MHz
1 TB WD Caviar Blue 64 MB Cache
HD 7870XT @ 1100 MHz
CM 212 EVO
Gigabyte Case with 4 case fans
CM Silent Pro M2 620W PSU

Throw a H80 or H100i on there in push / pull, or just push, and you can probably get that sucker up to 5.0, maybe even 5.2. (* o *) :3

Honestly, with the Push/pull on the EVO I could probably get there on a 990FX board. I should have bought the M5A99X EVO R2.0 when I got this board...honestly...though at the time, this board was $80 and the 99X EVO was $130. Now the EVO R2.0 is on sale for $110. Such is life...

 

[8350rocks]

No idea why we moved to GPU's, but frankly, at $399, the 770 GTX is hard to beat, especially given how well they OC. You can typically get close to 780 performance. Now take a second one and SLI for the same cost of a single 780 GTX.

Makes the HD 7990 for $300, after 8 free games, look like the deal of the century then huh?

 

[Cazalan]

http://flyingsuicide.net/news/amd-winner-in-q2-intel-up-nvidia-down/

Interesting article shows the move towards system on chip, and that Tamash and Kabini have had a effect.

For sure the mainstream Laptop/Desktop segments will be all/mostly SoC by the end of 2014. Cell phones/tablets have 99% been SoC for a while.

AMD is in a unique position right now having the most powerful x86 SoC in retail channel. There will be competition relatively soon though. A dual-core SoC Ivy Bridge and the Silvermont Atom SoCs.

Then there is supposed to be higher performance 64bit ARM SoCs out in 2014. It will be interesting to see what Android, Chrome or even FireFox does with those as ARM breaks out the "big" cores. We will see how the tablet generation tries to grow up into higher powered devices and take on traditional laptop roles. The operating systems aren't quite there yet but there are tons of developers.

 

[The Q6660 Inside]

http://flyingsuicide.net/news/amd-winner-in-q2-intel-up-nvidia-down/

Interesting article shows the move towards system on chip, and that Tamash and Kabini have had a effect.

For sure the mainstream Laptop/Desktop segments will be all/mostly SoC by the end of 2014. Cell phones/tablets have 99% been SoC for a while.

AMD is in a unique position right now having the most powerful x86 SoC in retail channel. There will be competition relatively soon though. A dual-core SoC Ivy Bridge and the Silvermont Atom SoCs.

Then there is supposed to be higher performance 64bit ARM SoCs out in 2014. It will be interesting to see what Android, Chrome or even FireFox does with those as ARM breaks out the "big" cores. We will see how the tablet generation tries to grow up into higher powered devices and take on traditional laptop roles. The operating systems aren't quite there yet but there are tons of developers.

Kabini could have an effect on the supermobile market, you know, the ones running around with Nexus 7s, etc.