AMD CPU speculation... and expert conjecture

[de5_Roy]

No need for a new chipset? No pcie 3.0, no native usb 3.0, no more then 6 sata channels, no support to setup a sdd as a cache. The list goes on. AMD needs a new chipset, and possibly a new socket, they need to releace a new cpu that can't be ran on 4 year old boards, They need a breakthrough.

pcie 3.0 won't help if the gfx cards can't saturate gen 2.0 bandwidth, or lose negligible amount of performance, or cpus bottleneck multi-gpu configs. majority of people use one gfx card.
usb 3.0 can be solved by 3rd party controllers. the mobos are cheap enough to offset the extra cost. but yes, native support would be good.
ssd as cache... i dunno... ssds as dedicated system drives seem better option to me.

socket change only happens when new ram comes out or if the new cpu has different design. ddr4 is still away.

 

[GOM3RPLY3R]

What's the most powerful gpu they are using in the new APus ?

The AMD M5 R200 for what we know. Somewhere in the ~7750 levels of performance.

Wow, that's fast.

Which is equivalent to a gtx 460 ?

Spoiler

Spoiler

ARM will gain market share, there is no way it can't since there aren't any ARM servers yet. from 0% to 1% is a gain in market share. Between the big (for the sake of arguing just say 5) ARM manufacturers, they will each get 0.2% of that 1% market share if they all split sales evenly. Now say samsung spends a small fraction of their company to advertise. now they double their sales while the others get a smaller chunk.

AMD can't out-advertise multi-billion dollar companies. Thats why they are currently in the position they are in with Intel. Instead of competing with 1 other company, it will be 5 or more. (5 others already hold arm a-57 lisences)

Spoiler

Thank by the laugh. First, introducing a product in the market doesn't guarantee that market share increases. If the product is bad then the share goes from 0% to... 0%, because nobody buys it.

Second, that predicted 20% market share gain means that Intel will lose market share by a similar amount. There is no possibility that AMD can use x86 products to take server market share from Intel. That is why AMD is migrating to ARM to recover market share in servers:

http://www.slashgear.com/amd-seattle-chips-ditch-x86-for-arm-to-undermine-intels-server-market-18286798/

http://www.zdnet.com/amd-bets-arm-server-chip-experience-means-market-gains-7000016857/

http://www.pcworld.idg.com.au/article/465171/amd_reboots_server_strategy_first_arm_chips/

some relevant quotes:

The company said its first ARM server processors - which will be released in the second half of next year - will be faster and more powerful than its existing low-power x86 server processors.

aka why jaguar-based Opteron-X servers are being replaced by ARM-based Seattle servers. ARM is a superior product.

AMD will sell its first ARM processors alongside x86 server processors, which were also updated with new high-end Opteron chips due next year. But AMD expects ARM processors to outrun x86 chips in the long term.

aka Warsaw is only for legacy customers.

Observers have said the ARM-based chips could give AMD an edge over Intel, and the move could be as significant as its introduction of 64-bit server chips in 2003, and dual-core chips in 2004. Both moves gave AMD a competitive advantage over Intel, but server chip delays and the failure of chips based on the Bulldozer core ultimately cost AMD market share.

aka migrating to ARM is AMD only possibility to come back to servers. This explain why there is no 8/12/16-core SR Opterons.

By 2016 or 2017, ARM CPUs will have 20 percent of the server market, Feldman said. Right now the server market is dominated by Intel's x86 chips, but Feldman said large data centers will start porting software from x86 to ARM in 2015.

Aka even large customers will migrate to ARM fast.

ARM CPUs, which are cheaper and ship in higher volumes compared to the more expensive x86 chips, will prevail in the end, Feldman said.

I know that ARM will win in servers. I also know that ARM will win in supercomputers and that one day all desktop computers will be ARM-based.

Because they count it as APU. CPU alone the improvement in efficiency is of only 10-15%, which is not enough to compete with Intel.

so now SR cores are only 10-15%? I thought a 4-core Kaveri would compete with the I5 on the cpu level and trash it on the APU side ... but a 16 core SR opteron can't compete with a xeon?

Logic fails this one again.

While (Juanrga = wrong) {printf("JUANRGA IS NEVER WRONG")};

I know the four explanations are plain wrong. Up to now my sources have shown that are very reliable and others (including friends working at) are not so.

http://missryansgcseenglish.files.wordpress.com/2012/05/imaginary_friend.jpg

this source?

Thanks by another laugh.

Efficiency != performance

20--30% performance and 10-15% efficiency, but please continue misunderstanding everything as you always do

Interesting that a 30% performance boost in the same power envelope translates to a 10-15% efficiency gain.

The main performance advantage comes from doubling the decoder which comes at the expense of higher power consumption. Therefore a 20% gain (from the decoder) does not translate to the 20% efficiency.

So why does fieldman keep saying the same thing? easy. Its called marketing.

I suppose that he knows that some people is slow to learn. In this same thread I keep saying the same thing to people who cannot learn, including the one who is no more posting here.

Then I suppose in your world, the shrink from 32nm to 28nm will bring no power savings. What then is the purpose of shrinking the die?

There have been no official word on whether its bulk or fd-soi, other than your opinion and an article posted over a year ago.

As for your constant ERMGO ARM IS SUPER HIGH END becase Nvidia is making a gpu supercomputer with a single ARM core ... people who need fast servers/workstations will stick with 3+ ghz x86 systems. power saving means nothing compared to labor costs.

ARM server is a niche market that is not proven, yet you speak as if it was already dominating the market.

p.s. looks like Nvidia is feeling the pressure of the 290X. http://www.tomshardware.com/news/nvidia-gtx-780-price-drop,24886.html#nvidia-gtx-780-price-drop%2C24886.html?&_suid=1382995055544028305646344288965

The irony is the 290 (not X) > GTX 780 and it's still $50 cheaper after the price drop than the 780.

780 will have to come down to $399 to even be valuable for the money....LOL!

I'm about to die right now. I spent $1450 on my whole pc, $460 of that was for a ASUS GTX 770 DCuII. Now the fact that is is at $340 is what is killing me. I could've bought a 3770k with that extra money.

Otherwise from Nvidia being historically expensive, it's amazing that people don't see the marketing strategy. Selling their new cards, about 5-6 months before AMD and at a higher price with this new 780 and the hype of these new cards is the perfect chance for a price gouge since it's cheaper than the last generation, and the new gen for price to performance is better than the 600 series.

Now that AMD is putting the pressure on, Nvidia will drop their prices. I bet anyone (even everyone) here, that when the 290X comes out, the prices will drop slightly, and then Nvidia will release a 790 (690 type) dual gpu card and gouge again before AMD releases their dual GPU card. -_-

About the 790, *ahem* HESH HELL EYE GUISE
The 280X>770 in every aspect except SLI and CF. How is the ASUS 770's Triple slot cooler holding up to sag, my friend is about to pull the trigger on a used Matrix 7970-Platinum.

Now that the 770 DCuII is so low, im probably going to dual-sli by Christmas. ^_^

Otherwise, it is a dual slot cooler* may I add, and it didn't really sag. My case came with a GPU stabilizer so I used it to straighten it out. Really other than that I just have to be able to get the Voltage above 1213 so I can clock it higher.

 

[kansasboy001]

No need for a new chipset? No pcie 3.0, no native usb 3.0, no more then 6 sata channels, no support to setup a sdd as a cache. The list goes on. AMD needs a new chipset, and possibly a new socket, they need to releace a new cpu that can't be ran on 4 year old boards, They need a breakthrough.

pcie 3.0 won't help if the gfx cards can't saturate gen 2.0 bandwidth, or lose negligible amount of performance, or cpus bottleneck multi-gpu configs. majority of people use one gfx card.
usb 3.0 can be solved by 3rd party controllers. the mobos are cheap enough to offset the extra cost. but yes, native support would be good.
ssd as cache... i dunno... ssds as dedicated system drives seem better option to me.

socket change only happens when new ram comes out or if the new cpu has different design. ddr4 is still away.

All you have to do is look at intel's z87 and all of the features that it supports, and then look at 990fx /AM3+, and you will see how out of date the 990fx / AM3+ platform is. 990fx, is just like 890fx, so it is almost 4 year old technology, obsolete by any standards. AMD needs to release a whole new platform to keep my business, and I have been using AMD sense the Athlon xp / Athlon 64. AMD if your are reading this forum, please do not disappoint.

 

[de5_Roy]

All you have to do is look at intel's z87 and all of the features that it supports, and then look at 990fx /AM3+, and you will see how out of date the 990fx / AM3+ platform is. 990fx, is just like 890fx, so it is almost 4 year old technology, obsolete by any standards. AMD needs to release a whole new platform to keep my business, and I have been using AMD sense the Athlon xp / Athlon 64. AMD if your are reading this forum, please do not disappoint.

obsolete? far from it.
i don't really understand why you need a new chipset. current one is a couple of minor tweaks away from giving z87 a run. i compare 990fx with x79 since both am3+ and lga2011 platforms facilitate multi-gpu setups with plethora of pcie lanes. intel didn't even update x79 chipset, only validated ivb-e cpus for pcie 3.0. 990fx has aged well since it's launch in 2011 and it had way better features than z68 and p67 (no eroding sata ports afaik! 😛).
if amd launches a new chipset, it'll likely be with a new socket. see what happened with trinity and kaveri. richland doesn't count (despite amd p.r.) since it's just a higher clocked trinity.

 

[kansasboy001]

All you have to do is look at intel's z87 and all of the features that it supports, and then look at 990fx /AM3+, and you will see how out of date the 990fx / AM3+ platform is. 990fx, is just like 890fx, so it is almost 4 year old technology, obsolete by any standards. AMD needs to release a whole new platform to keep my business, and I have been using AMD sense the Athlon xp / Athlon 64. AMD if your are reading this forum, please do not disappoint.

obsolete? far from it.
i don't really understand why you need a new chipset. current one is a couple of minor tweaks away from giving z87 a run. i compare 990fx with x79 since both am3+ and lga2011 platforms facilitate multi-gpu setups with plethora of pcie lanes. intel didn't even update x79 chipset, only validated ivb-e cpus for pcie 3.0. 990fx has aged well since it's launch in 2011 and it had way better features than z68 and p67 (no eroding sata ports afaik! 😛).
if amd launches a new chipset, it'll likely be with a new socket. see what happened with trinity and kaveri. richland doesn't count (despite amd p.r.) since it's just a higher clocked trinity.

The more that I think about it, you are right, a few minor tweaks would be nice though. One feature that I think that they will put in their new boards, is better crossfire for the bridge less crossfire in the R9 290x, some exclusive feature only found in amd boards.

 

[de5_Roy]

The more that I think about it, you are right, a few minor tweaks would be nice though. One feature that I think that they will put in their new boards, is better crossfire for the bridge less crossfire in the R9 290x, some exclusive feature only found in amd boards.

amd said that bridge-less cfx with r9 290x will work on any pcie gen. though, i haven't read about any testing being done in that regard.
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/radeon-r9-290x-hawaii-review,3650-2.html
i guess they took their own platform into account.
and then there's the price. being the older platform, the mobo prices are cheaper.

 

[kansasboy001]

The 990fx chipset, has less uptodate features, then the lower end A88X chipset, my friend from ASUS sais that he knows of a 990fx replacement. I still think that the vishera fx replacement will be in the form of an enthusiast apu, with 8 cores, and graphics comparable to hd 7770. The only issue would be ddr3, they could do an on die stacked GDDR5 setup like nvidia's Volta core. if they made this so cpu performance would be comparable to lga 2011 chip, but also with integrated graphics, but around the $250 price point, they could have a real winner on their hands.

 

[griptwister]

All you have to do is look at intel's z87 and all of the features that it supports, and then look at 990fx /AM3+, and you will see how out of date the 990fx / AM3+ platform is. 990fx, is just like 890fx, so it is almost 4 year old technology, obsolete by any standards. AMD needs to release a whole new platform to keep my business, and I have been using AMD sense the Athlon xp / Athlon 64. AMD if your are reading this forum, please do not disappoint.

obsolete? far from it.
i don't really understand why you need a new chipset. current one is a couple of minor tweaks away from giving z87 a run. i compare 990fx with x79 since both am3+ and lga2011 platforms facilitate multi-gpu setups with plethora of pcie lanes. intel didn't even update x79 chipset, only validated ivb-e cpus for pcie 3.0. 990fx has aged well since it's launch in 2011 and it had way better features than z68 and p67 (no eroding sata ports afaik! 😛).
if amd launches a new chipset, it'll likely be with a new socket. see what happened with trinity and kaveri. richland doesn't count (despite amd p.r.) since it's just a higher clocked trinity.

The more that I think about it, you are right, a few minor tweaks would be nice though. One feature that I think that they will put in their new boards, is better crossfire for the bridge less crossfire in the R9 290x, some exclusive feature only found in amd boards.

They could just make a new series of MoBos for AM3+. ASUS did the SaberTooth board with PCIe 3.0 support.

 

[griptwister]

AMD said they were going to be using GDDR5, and according to slides, they're not now. Now they're going to be having a 990FX replacement...

Is there a possibility that We'll see a high end APU chip set with DDR4 or GDDR5?

 

[kansasboy001]

The 990fx chipset, has less uptodate features, then the lower end A88X chipset, my friend from ASUS sais that he knows of a 990fx replacement. I still think that the vishera fx replacement will be in the form of an enthusiast apu, with 8 cores, and graphics comparable to hd 7770. The only issue would be ddr3, they could do an on die stacked GDDR5 setup like nvidia's Volta core. if they made this so cpu performance would be comparable to lga 2011 chip, but also with integrated graphics, but around the $250 price point, they could have a real winner on their hands.

What would the replacement 990fx have other than 32 pcie lanes ?

I would think that it would have a few more lanes, to allow for 3 way crossfire/sli @ x16. The a10 series apus are becoming more powerful, so the enthusiast platform needs to become marginally more powerful.

 

[juanrga]

And because both Intel and ARM laptops are taking the laptop market

http://venturebeat.com/2013/10/15/intel-beats-earnings-estimates-with-5-revenue-gain-in-q3/

This is not strange, the main factor in mobile and servers is efficiency and there is where AMD is losing share.

i currently have no info if amd's share went to intel but arm certainly was not a gainer. when amd and intel count market share in pcs, they only consider x86. still, arm's share in overall laptops is near zero. tablets hurt laptop sales more significantly and amd being the smaller company, takes a bigger hit (though in terms of quantity, intel takes a bigger hit).

that last line eerily resembles someone else's..... 😗 never mind.

Sure Intel has most share in laptops and it is increasing:

AMD managed to bolster the strength of its desktop APU and CPU sales, largely thanks to aggressive pricing and a market that isn't as sensitive to power efficiency. But its notebooks share dropped substantially, particularly as Intel's Haswell and soon Bay Trail-M processors take share across the entire spectrum. Further, given that Intel's recently launched Xeon E5v2 processors offer substantial performance-per-watt advantages over AMD's Opteron lineup, it is very likely that AMD continued to hemorrhage what little market share it had left in the traditional server markets.

Regarding ARM market share, the top-selling laptop in Amazon is an ARM-based Samsung.

 

[de5_Roy]

Sure Intel has most share in laptops and it is increasing:

...

Regarding ARM market share, the top-selling laptop in Amazon is an ARM-based Samsung.

your quote mentions haswell and baytrail-m. amusingly, you provide no link to when this was published. being unapologetically skeptic, i don't believe a word you say. 😀

a samsung chromebook topping amazon's list means.....nothing.

intel's laptop offerings and efficiency.... now, why does it seem oh so familiar.....😗 never mind...

If there is a 990fx replacement why would they use a apu ? Would it not make more sense to wait until excavator in 2015. I am thinking more 6,8,10 core centurion's to fill that spot. 9 days until amd announces the direction it will take and this thread will have the answers.

different markets, different configurations.
imo, the model numbering in the recent promo slides should be an indication. 7xxx means that amd expects kaveri to fall under top 8xxx cpus and crapturion. may be the model numbering is just that convenient....
i thought that this thread will close back when mark papermaster gave that keynote speech... how wrong was i ....

 

[kansasboy001]

I think that excavator may end up being q4 2014, w/ a steamroller refresh in summer 2014

 

[juanrga]

AMD plans don't include 10 core chips, AM4, GDDR5 (as in PS4), Phenom IV, neither 3 way crossfire. A return to SOI is not even in the menu.

AMD main (would say master?) plan seems to be APU for 90% of users and APU+dGPU (dual graphics) for gaming enthusiasts.

An ultra-high-end 8-core 2TFLOP APU @ $400 would be fine for server, HEDT, and marketing purposes, but it is not coming now. And it is unlikely for 2015 if leaked docs are right.

 

[griptwister]

And again juanrga, there isn't even a fracking 2014 desktop roadmap. So you're assumption is false. If we be going by the roadmaps and AMD statements, AMD said they're releasing high end SteamRoller CPUs in late 2013.

 

[juanrga]

Spoiler

I agree, AMD has been very sneaky with releases lately, with their additional funds form MS and Sony, they have the funding to put in to a big release. Amd also hired two of the best CPU Architects in the market, (I forgot the names). If I remember right they did something similar when The released Athlon 64 and beat the crap out of Intel's CPUs.

They have hired a plethora of talent:

John Gustafson - Father of "Gustafson's Law", former Intel employee, GPU compute expert. (Chief Product Architect GPUs at AMD)

Raja Koduri - Ex Apple employee for GPUs, ex ex AMD employee for GPUs/Drivers. (VP of Graphical Solutions at AMD)

Jim Keller - Ex Apple employee for A5-A7, ex ex AMD employee, architect of K7/K8 and HTX. (Chief Product Architect CPUs at AMD)

With those guys working on this, I don't foresee an issue with them putting out phenomenal product designs. What I do see, right now, is a fab issue. 28nm FD-SOI @ GF via STMicro's designs is only just beginning to ramp. Yields won't be good for a while yet, until it's mature, and AMD has had to eat costly low yields @ GF before. I think if they do a 28nm FX type CPU, then it will not be until the process is mature enough to support a ~280-300mm^2 die size with moderately good yields. That may be 6-12 months out, depending on how the yields for the process go with the IBM processors that GF is producing. If the yields work out well for the POWER8 stuff, then AMD may dive into the pool.

This is particularly true of the position they took using bulk. It is far easier to port from bulk to SOI than it is to go the opposite direction. This is because the process for bulk requires more masking layers to perfect, and SOI removes a great many of those, so it is essentially "easier" to produce. The designs don't translate across 100%, though the portability is probably close to the 80% mark.

I also feel that they are holding something back, hopefully I can get a good, solid answer from AMD in the AMA. Though, I somehow think that it will be sidestepped by NDA's and other methods. At least if we prod them enough about what the FX successor will be, they will see the massive interest in the product.

AMD also has TSMC to fall back on

TSMC does not do SOI. So that would be out for a FX replacement.

Would it not be possible to change the HEDT process altogether?

You could, but to get similar performance you need to be on one of the following for the efficiency and clockspeeds they would need:

PD-SOI - This is the 32nm SOI they are currently using, and could use @ 28nm, though GF has announced FD-SOI @ 28nm which would be superior.

FD-SOI - This is what all SOI going forward will be because of size constraints. It is also a superior process, and the most common version is UTBB FD-SOI, with a gate last approach, you can dramatically tweak it for performance/power consumption or whatever else you want it to do.

I have to ask, are you a Glofo PR or something?

FinFET - FinFET is what Intel uses, though they do it on bulk wafers, it would actually be significantly better on FD-SOI substrate. It could be done either way; however, to stay on bulk wafers past ~20nm it would have to be a FinFET of some kind to even get close to the performance they are looking for in HEDT.

Additionally, note that Intel does not typically overclock nearly as well as AMD does, the choice to use bulk wafers has a dramatic impact on what you can do with temperatures as well as maximum clockspeeds.

I think this is another of myths you have been spreading in forums, just like your Steamroller is AM3+ and many others.

I believed you during months, but I have just checked and the OC difference is minimal. Yes, AMD owns several OC records, but the average maximum freq. achieved by i5-3570k and FX-6300 on air differs by only 100MHz. Therefore SOI provides a 'dramatic' advantage of about 100MHz or a 2%. LOL

 

[juanrga]

Sure Intel has most share in laptops and it is increasing:

...

Regarding ARM market share, the top-selling laptop in Amazon is an ARM-based Samsung.

your quote mentions haswell and baytrail-m. amusingly, you provide no link to when this was published. being unapologetically skeptic, i don't believe a word you say. 😀

Ooops. I believed that I had included the link. My mistake

http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2013/10/21/advanced-micro-devices-has-potential-but-the-road.aspx

a samsung chromebook topping amazon's list means.....nothing.

Except if you run a business and the goal is to sell stuff.

 

[de5_Roy]

Ooops. I believed that I had included the link. My mistake

http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2013/10/21/advanced-micro-devices-has-potential-but-the-road.aspx

i was reading... until i reached the end of the page where the disclosure says that while the author owns shares of intel, amd and nvidia (never mentions how many of which), the site(editorial staff?) owns intel share. 😗
the only relevant bit of info in the article

saw a 6% sequential decline and a whopping 15% year-over-year decline.

says it all. y.o.y. decline is due to tablets. sequential is partly richland, partly lack of enough kabini devices (zacate's upgrade, went to tablets), partly tablets (again). after that comes intel(haswell) even though the article opines about revenue. intel doesn't lower cpu prices, so their revenue shouldn't decline unless unit sales are really low.. even then high end cpus absorb that hit. keep in mind that the article isn't discussing overall market share.

Except if you run a business and the goal is to sell stuff.

oh, chart-topping for a day on a website means well for the website and the product, but says nothing about overall marketshare. that's what i meant.

 

[kansasboy001]

If there is a 990fx replacement why would they use a apu ? Would it not make more sense to wait until excavator in 2015. I am thinking more 6,8,10 core centurion's to fill that spot. 9 days until amd announces the direction it will take and this thread will have the answers.

there is only 9 days left, till we find out if the high end steamroller parts, are apu, or cpu.

 

[juanrga]

And again juanrga, there isn't even a fracking 2014 desktop roadmap. So you're assumption is false. If we be going by the roadmaps and AMD statements, AMD said they're releasing high end SteamRoller CPUs in late 2013.

You criticize roadmaps but then ask for one. LOL

We have server roadmap that gives hints to what you can see in the desktop. 4-core Berlin means that there is no 6/8-core APU for desktop. Warsaw coming in PD means there is no SR FX. Warsaw coming in 12/16 core with 4/6/8 cores drop means that if there is a FX refresh, it will be the 6000/8000/9000 series. There is not 10-core coming to the desktop and so on.

 

[juanrga]

Ooops. I believed that I had included the link. My mistake

http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2013/10/21/advanced-micro-devices-has-potential-but-the-road.aspx

i was reading... until i reached the end of the page where the disclosure says that while the author owns shares of intel, amd and nvidia (never mentions how many of which), the site(editorial staff?) owns intel share. 😗
the only relevant bit of info in the article

saw a 6% sequential decline and a whopping 15% year-over-year decline.

says it all. y.o.y. decline is due to tablets. sequential is partly richland, partly lack of enough kabini devices (zacate's upgrade, went to tablets), partly tablets (again). after that comes intel(haswell) even though the article opines about revenue. intel doesn't lower cpu prices, so their revenue shouldn't decline unless unit sales are really low.. even then high end cpus absorb that hit. keep in mind that the article isn't discussing overall market share.

Except if you run a business and the goal is to sell stuff.

oh, chart-topping for a day on a website means well for the website and the product, but says nothing about overall marketshare. that's what i meant.

It has been in the top-selling list for more than one year...

 

[de5_Roy]

It has been in the top-selling list for more than one year...

now it's in the top selling list from the top selling. i suspect if i argue further, it'll be top 20, then top 50, top 100, 150 and so on.. 😆 being in the top selling list or the top selling on amazon is good for the arm chromebook, but it doesn't count. it's neither a tablet, nor a convertible/hybrid laptop. then there's the fact that amazon.com doesn't represent the whole market.

 

[noob2222]

All you have to do is look at intel's z87 and all of the features that it supports, and then look at 990fx /AM3+, and you will see how out of date the 990fx / AM3+ platform is. 990fx, is just like 890fx, so it is almost 4 year old technology, obsolete by any standards. AMD needs to release a whole new platform to keep my business, and I have been using AMD sense the Athlon xp / Athlon 64. AMD if your are reading this forum, please do not disappoint.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131976

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131877

Both have: 8 sata 6gb, 6 useable for raid
4 usb 2.0 +4 usb 3.0 (990fx has 4 more usb 2.0)

Difference: Intel pci-e 3.0 (x8/x8 for cf/sli only 2 slots)
AMD pci-e 2.0 (x16/x16 for 2-way, or x16/x8/x8 for 3 way)

just how out of date is it? pci-e 3.0 x8 = pci-e 2.0 x16. Single card use difference is 0.1% features are nearly identical otherwise. Intel costs $50 more for one less pci-e slot.

Companies don't need to release a new motherboard every 2 years like intel does.

 

[noob2222]

As for the chromebook being a top seller, ever wonder why?

http://readwrite.com/2011/05/11/will_chromebooks_for_education_be_a_good_deal_for#awesm=~om4EgctWrgf0tZ

There are several schools around here who are already adopting this as a requirement for high school students. The students have to buy it so where do you think their partents are getting them from? Its the only school supply needed for those adopting it so there aren't any other costs to the parents.

2nd, they are among the cheapest laptops available.

cheap things sell by quantity, not quality. Amazon's list isn't based on profit either.

 

[kansasboy001]

All you have to do is look at intel's z87 and all of the features that it supports, and then look at 990fx /AM3+, and you will see how out of date the 990fx / AM3+ platform is. 990fx, is just like 890fx, so it is almost 4 year old technology, obsolete by any standards. AMD needs to release a whole new platform to keep my business, and I have been using AMD sense the Athlon xp / Athlon 64. AMD if your are reading this forum, please do not disappoint.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131976

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131877

Both have: 8 sata 6gb, 6 useable for raid
4 usb 2.0 +4 usb 3.0 (990fx has 4 more usb 2.0)

Difference: Intel pci-e 3.0 (x8/x8 for cf/sli only 2 slots)
AMD pci-e 2.0 (x16/x16 for 2-way, or x16/x8/x8 for 3 way)

just how out of date is it? pci-e 3.0 x8 = pci-e 2.0 x16. Single card use difference is 0.1% features are nearly identical otherwise. Intel costs $50 more for one less pci-e slot.

Companies don't need to release a new motherboard every 2 years like intel does.

Good point, but what about thunderbolt, amd does not have thunderbolt.