AMD CPU speculation... and expert conjecture

[juanrga]

"I don't know what programs you use. I don't care if you use programs whose code cheats or if you use programs that only utilize a fraction of the hardware potential."
real world programs such as handbrake-games..ect

And other people uses real-world programs as well. Extremetech found that replacing their old x264 binary by one new Haswell runs 47% faster. This means that the old real-world program was only using about two thirds of the chip performance.

The same applies to AMD chips. I don't care if you are using real-world programs "that only utilize a fraction of the hardware potential" and give you false impression about i5s being always a 25% faster...

@juan

If the scores at "stock" can vary by 800+ pts, how reliable is it as a "real world" benchmark? Also consider that the fx 9590 is just above the 4770k, why would amd abandon it in favor of a passmark score at 50%?

If you want to prove me wrong on cosmology, then prove it. You claiming I'm wrong just by saying so doesn't. It only proves you have no clue and still want to say "im never wrong because my name is Juan."

Post some of your actual kaveri benchmarks, or are you here bragging about the greatest thing AMD ever made to not buy it yourself, and have nothing but google to back you up?

P.s. you need to adjust your fake "trinity overclocks only to 4.5 ghz" figures.

http://www.pureoverclock.com/Review-detail/amd-trinity-a10-5800k-review/9/

LOL

I said that accuracy and precision are different concepts and wouldn't be confused. You insist on confounding them.

AMD is not abandoning the FX-9590, it continues in the roadmaps until 2015. I explained another thing about AMD plans, but you didn't understand them.

I already commented on your unfair accusations against the cosmology scores. I corrected your mistake about a dozen of times. No need to do it again.

Your accusation about fake OC made me laugh again. The 4.5GHz for Trinity is not the maximum OC as you pretend. It is an average OC on air as I said explicitly:

http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/forum/352312-28-steamroller-speculation-expert-conjecture/page-225#12515374

A10-5800k: 3.8GHz --> 4.5GHz [ first gen 32nm SOI ]
A10-6800k: 4.1GHz --> 4.9GHz [ second gen 32nm SOI ]
A10-5800k: 3.7GHz --> 4.6GHz [ first gen 28nm bulk ]

All OC average values on air.

Your pureoverclock link is about OC a specific Trinity chip on watter

 

[juanrga]

Instead writing another 'professional' article about Floating Point, Anand would have tested HSA software on Kaveri. Some HSA benchmarks

 

[de5_Roy]

AMD Kaveri A10 7850K Overclocked at 4.7 Ghz Benchmarks
http://www.hardcoreware.net/kaveri-7850k-overclocked-benchmarks/

AMD A8-7600 Kaveri APU Review
http://www.techspot.com/review/770-amd-a8-7600-kaveri/

DDR3-2400MHz Performance On AMD's A10 Kaveri With Kingston's HyperX Beast
http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=amd_ddr3_2400mhz&num=1

 

[gamerk316]

It's Jaguar which use's the same modular technology that AMD used to create BD. It's modular in the sense that the components inside your PC are modular. You don't need to redesign your PC to add more memory, a different CPU, another HDD or a different GPU. Everything is plug and play which has made building and shipping PC's much cheaper then 30 years ago when everything was custom (Amiga) or proprietary (Apple).

To be fair, PC's like the Amiga and Sharp X68000 were far and away ahead of the competition at the time. Hell, the 68k arch was far superior to X86, and the PC's of the time proved it.

 

[Rum]

Nintendo would be late but beefier hardware could convert people. As they say, the second mouse gets the cheese.

Not Nintendo's style nor their market. Nintendo primary targets the young demographic, 14yo and younger. The kids who pester their parents to buy them stuff. Those customers don't care about performance, they care about the experience itself, as in was the game fun and entertaining. Hell look at pokemon, that series as made Nintendo billions of USD and it's not very advanced graphically. Then you have Zelda and Metroid, again two big series that bring in big money and neither very advanced compared to the competition. They would lose trying to much to chase the Adult gaming segment as their policy's regarding violent content are restrictive when compared to Sony and Microsoft. About the only problem Nintendo faced was trying to change the interface too much too fast, the Wii's control interface was unique and good for some games but I got REALLY tired of using it for everything. The Wii-U is just plain bad, too expensive and ruining a known formula regarding gamepads. There is a reason Sony hasn't changed their playstation controls.

That FPU comparison is kinda good but it's Anand doing their old tricks. Comparing products from vastly different market segments while using hand waiving. If someone knows what their looking at then the numbers are good, but anyone who tries to read the article will be lead to a very wrong conclusion regarding SIMD FPU's and vector processing.

Nintendo has been patching their OS & games to work with the Pro controller so they can possibly start to drop the price of the console, by getting rid of the WiiU console/ tablet controller bundle and go with the pro controller instead.
Like they say "if it isn't broke don't fix it"... The wii was a novelty and a great selling one at that but they should have really done a better job researching the market for the WiiU and realized the tablet controller wasn't the greatest idea... or at least forcing it wasn't, they should have just made it a peripheral for people to buy if they wanted to. A better launch campaign would have done wonders also cuz apparently a ton of people were confused and thought the new system was just an addon. -_-

 

[palladin9479]

It's Jaguar which use's the same modular technology that AMD used to create BD. It's modular in the sense that the components inside your PC are modular. You don't need to redesign your PC to add more memory, a different CPU, another HDD or a different GPU. Everything is plug and play which has made building and shipping PC's much cheaper then 30 years ago when everything was custom (Amiga) or proprietary (Apple).

To be fair, PC's like the Amiga and Sharp X68000 were far and away ahead of the competition at the time. Hell, the 68k arch was far superior to X86, and the PC's of the time proved it.

Yes the Amiga was definitely ahead of it's time, lots of custom chips that allowed it to do real time audio and advanced graphics separate of the main CPU. Had a NUMA-esque memory system separated into Fast and Slow RAM that programers could use as needed. But it was too expensive and proprietary, made it ultimately fail against the IBM PC clones. Kinda proved that something needs to be cheap to hit mass market adoption.

 

[juanrga]

Most people just laughed at the Nintendo spec rumor but they actually could fund that if they wanted to. I find it really doubtful but if Nintendo were smart they could design in a 20nm version of the PS4 style APU with even more powerful graphics and Puma cores. We know Sony/MS won't redesign for 5+ years.

Nintendo would be late but beefier hardware could convert people. As they say, the second mouse gets the cheese.

Hardware specifications rumor...

http://www.nintendonews.com/2014/01/nintendo-fusion-could-be-nintendos-next-gen-hardware-name/

 

[Master-flaw]

Most people just laughed at the Nintendo spec rumor but they actually could fund that if they wanted to. I find it really doubtful but if Nintendo were smart they could design in a 20nm version of the PS4 style APU with even more powerful graphics and Puma cores. We know Sony/MS won't redesign for 5+ years.

Nintendo would be late but beefier hardware could convert people. As they say, the second mouse gets the cheese.

Hardware specifications rumor...

http://www.nintendonews.com/2014/01/nintendo-fusion-could-be-nintendos-next-gen-hardware-name/

Read this too but I'm gunna dismiss it unless this is planned for more than a few years from now. In which case it's always subject to change(and probably will). Any ball park guess is about as good as the next.
290X(based on shaders) is a bit much for a console, I really don't think it's even close to being fee-sable with Nintendo's market for at least 5+ years.

 

[etayorius]

Most people just laughed at the Nintendo spec rumor but they actually could fund that if they wanted to. I find it really doubtful but if Nintendo were smart they could design in a 20nm version of the PS4 style APU with even more powerful graphics and Puma cores. We know Sony/MS won't redesign for 5+ years.

Nintendo would be late but beefier hardware could convert people. As they say, the second mouse gets the cheese.

Hardware specifications rumor...

http://www.nintendonews.com/2014/01/nintendo-fusion-could-be-nintendos-next-gen-hardware-name/

IBM Power 8 CPU? they should totally use x86 APU like PS4 and xbone, this way devs would port PS4/xbone games to the new Nintendo console, the GPU is a monster.. why on earth Nintendo needs that many Shaders for games such as Mario/Zelda?

I think they are trying the same fiasco with the WiiU, i smell another fail.

 

[jdwii]

I remember when Bulldozer came out people where finding those special benchmarks as well

 

[de5_Roy]

AMD: Mullins and Beema Will Beat Intel Atom “Bay Trail”
http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/cpu/display/20140122231052_AMD_Mullins_and_Beema_Will_Beat_Intel_Atom_Bay_Trail.html
amd's lisa su claims "250% better than bay trail" in the recent conference call. and i believe her. it's highly benchmark dependent, but could easily be true.

 

[noob2222]

@juan

Your personal corrections are laughable at best. Just because "juan said so" doesn't make anything magically come true.

Until you figure that out have fun arguing with yourself. You never can back up your argument other than claiming "I said that 1000 times" when you cant even stick to the same story more than once.

 

[abitoms]

a point to interject all the discussions going on here. Been meaning to write this for a while now

Laptops with AMD APUs are somehow relegated to the garbage bin even if they deserve better. Searching Dell, Lenovo India websites with the 'AMD' turn up only cryptic search results with next-to-no laptops.

flipkart.com, a popular online store has a HP laptop with an AMD A10, 8GB of RAM, 1TB of HDD...and ...wait for it...wait ....for it....Free DOS. All this for INR38000. (Around USD630)

Ironically, it has a gamut of Core i3 laptops for 500GB, 4GB RAM and Win8 for INR 35000 (USD 580).

Now who will buy that AMD laptop with all the unnecessary amount of RAM?
Even if one argues that the RAM is there to facilitate performance, then why a HDD instead of an SSD?
Why the FreeDOS?
The 1TB is ok, but people have difficulty filling up even 500GB. That 1TB simply inflates the cost.

And don't even mention the battery these APUs are (unfairly) saddled with.
This is like the hardware equivalent of bloatware.

I wonder how NONE of those laptops with FreeDOS ever come with an i3 or i5.

I remember seeing an AMD FreeDOS laptop from Lenovo not long ago....which made me think of writing this in the first place.

What should I make of all these...Intel payouts?
Genuine lack of common sense and marketing research from these system sellers?
Lack of marketing from AMD towards these system sellers?

As long as the system sellers couple AMD APUs either with costly overkills like 4TB HDD (no SSD), 16GB RAM, and/OR with cheap-out parts like low battery, bad glossy monitor, plastic shells, it will not matter how many well-engineered APUs AMD pushes out. And of course it will be priced high enough "because it has 16 GB RAM, 4TB HDD" so that no one buys it.

(End rant. I can feel myself foaming/frothing at my mouth.)

 

[de5_Roy]

^^ worse: single ddr3 1333/1600 dimm instead of dual channel kit, under capacity batteries, shoddy build materials and so on.

ssd isn't a must on entry/mid level laptops. it is better as an upgrade. 768p tn panels are worse... although they help igpu-gaming with better fps.

those are from oem side. amd has it's faults as well. they never push as hard as intel or nvidia and i am not taling about throwing money at oems. driver support (esp. dual gfx and gpu switching) is crap. kaveri will help with dual gfx and the new catalyst will finally address dual gfx on non kaveri (it's not here yet).... but look how long it took them to get here since llano's introduction in 2011.

 

[abitoms]

^^ yes, of course AMD sitting on their lazy is another factor

what is surprising is they should be (in principle) aware of these things.
if yes, they are digging their own grave

if they are not aware of these things, then something is seriously wrong with how they do business

 

[de5_Roy]

there's a silver lining: kaveri is more laptop oriented than ever. all trinity's desktop-ness and bad turbo and throttling and dual gfx issues should be gone with kaveri - both in software and hardware. beema and mullins are looking pretty good as well. then there's amd's own arm a57/53 core license. with all these, amd stands to address almost all of laptop and mobile landscape with ease. for example, if they don't support android with beema or mullins, they can do that with a57 socs. all that is left is to start executing.

 

[juanrga]

I remember when Bulldozer came out people where finding those special benchmarks as well

@juan

Your personal corrections are laughable at best. Just because "juan said so" doesn't make anything magically come true.

Until you figure that out have fun arguing with yourself. You never can back up your argument other than claiming "I said that 1000 times" when you cant even stick to the same story more than once.

LOL :lol:

 

[juanrga]

a point to interject all the discussions going on here. Been meaning to write this for a while now

Laptops with AMD APUs are somehow relegated to the garbage bin even if they deserve better. Searching Dell, Lenovo India websites with the 'AMD' turn up only cryptic search results with next-to-no laptops.

flipkart.com, a popular online store has a HP laptop with an AMD A10, 8GB of RAM, 1TB of HDD...and ...wait for it...wait ....for it....Free DOS. All this for INR38000. (Around USD630)

Ironically, it has a gamut of Core i3 laptops for 500GB, 4GB RAM and Win8 for INR 35000 (USD 580).

Now who will buy that AMD laptop with all the unnecessary amount of RAM?
Even if one argues that the RAM is there to facilitate performance, then why a HDD instead of an SSD?
Why the FreeDOS?
The 1TB is ok, but people have difficulty filling up even 500GB. That 1TB simply inflates the cost.

And don't even mention the battery these APUs are (unfairly) saddled with.
This is like the hardware equivalent of bloatware.

I wonder how NONE of those laptops with FreeDOS ever come with an i3 or i5.

I remember seeing an AMD FreeDOS laptop from Lenovo not long ago....which made me think of writing this in the first place.

What should I make of all these...Intel payouts?
Genuine lack of common sense and marketing research from these system sellers?
Lack of marketing from AMD towards these system sellers?

As long as the system sellers couple AMD APUs either with costly overkills like 4TB HDD (no SSD), 16GB RAM, and/OR with cheap-out parts like low battery, bad glossy monitor, plastic shells, it will not matter how many well-engineered APUs AMD pushes out. And of course it will be priced high enough "because it has 16 GB RAM, 4TB HDD" so that no one buys it.

(End rant. I can feel myself foaming/frothing at my mouth.)

You are a lucky man. In my country, I cannot find AMD laptops with FreeDOS, the only FreeDOS laptops have old celerons and pentiums. All* AMD laptops come with W8 pre-installed.

 

[juanrga]

AMD: Mullins and Beema Will Beat Intel Atom “Bay Trail”
http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/cpu/display/20140122231052_AMD_Mullins_and_Beema_Will_Beat_Intel_Atom_Bay_Trail.html
amd's lisa su claims "250% better than bay trail" in the recent conference call. and i believe her. it's highly benchmark dependent, but could easily be true.

 

[Reynod]

N00b and juan your both starting to really annoy me.

Unless you both want a two week holiday I suggest you cut it out.

Last warning.

This post is staying here so the next mod who notices a transgression can simply pull the trigger.

 

[juggernautxtr]

INTEL is still playing games with manufacturer's, meaning i think they still paying kick back for selling product, so the mans are making the AMD products look unattractive so as to sell more intel product.
and the 500 gig claim to fill up, haha I would fill 500 gigs pretty darn quick.
when i got my lap top no bloatware to speak much of, but it has a 750 gig, i am down to 350 gigs of room left. ids(ford diagnostic program) takes up a lot of space as you introduce vehicle data.
reynolds and reynolds(massive resource hog)needs lots of ram.
amd for the lower end lap top to me just totally annihilates i3 down. even the I3's can barely handle all the programs i have to run, i usually have to run 4+ at the same time and those have graphics to load too. the A6 i have runs it all with no issues.
if the graphics are to slow when i am looking at pids on a car, and i miss a hiccup in that/those pids i don't get the car fixed right.
in order for me to get strong enough graphics i would have had to buy I5-I7 with high end graphics, which is far to much processor power and an absolute waste of money. but in trying to find what i wanted and needed was a pain in the arse. the manufactures need to step up and quit playing Intels games in the end they are the ones looking bad.

 

[truegenius]

Laptops with AMD APUs are somehow relegated to the garbage bin even if they deserve better. Searching Dell, Lenovo India websites with the 'AMD' turn up only cryptic search results with next-to-no laptops.
flipkart.com, a popular online store has a HP laptop with an AMD A10, 8GB of RAM, 1TB of HDD...and ...wait for it...wait ....for it....Free DOS. All this for INR38000. (Around USD630)

Ironically, it has a gamut of Core i3 laptops for 500GB, 4GB RAM and Win8 for INR 35000 (USD 580).

Now who will buy that AMD laptop with all the unnecessary amount of RAM?
Why the FreeDOS?
The 1TB is ok, but people have difficulty filling up even 500GB. That 1TB simply inflates the cost.
(End rant. I can feel myself foaming/frothing at my mouth.)

Lenovo Essential E4325 may suit your need

btw, 8GB ram is less for me (previously i thoght that i can do with 4GB but then i got 64bit window), especially because i don't use virtual memory, window 7 takes 1-1.5GB and kaspersky chews 1GB ram when i start full system scan, and after using chrome for few hours and few tabs (30-50 only beause my monitor is 18.5" only ) i get a window notification which tells me that i ran out of memory

i posted on this thread after a long time, we have reached to 220+ pages ( oh! i missed the celebration of double century ) but the question remains same where is steamroller (FX), do we have to wait for 2015 ? (according to a pic in de5_Roy's latest link)

 

[blackkstar]

Laptops with AMD APUs are somehow relegated to the garbage bin even if they deserve better. Searching Dell, Lenovo India websites with the 'AMD' turn up only cryptic search results with next-to-no laptops.
flipkart.com, a popular online store has a HP laptop with an AMD A10, 8GB of RAM, 1TB of HDD...and ...wait for it...wait ....for it....Free DOS. All this for INR38000. (Around USD630)

Ironically, it has a gamut of Core i3 laptops for 500GB, 4GB RAM and Win8 for INR 35000 (USD 580).

Now who will buy that AMD laptop with all the unnecessary amount of RAM?
Why the FreeDOS?
The 1TB is ok, but people have difficulty filling up even 500GB. That 1TB simply inflates the cost.
(End rant. I can feel myself foaming/frothing at my mouth.)

Lenovo Essential E4325 may suit your need

btw, 8GB ram is less for me (previously i thoght that i can do with 4GB but then i got 64bit window), especially because i don't use virtual memory, window 7 takes 1-1.5GB and kaspersky chews 1GB ram when i start full system scan, and after using chrome for few hours and few tabs (30-50 only beause my monitor is 18.5" only ) i get a window notification which tells me that i ran out of memory

i posted on this thread after a long time, we have reached to 220+ pages ( oh! i missed the celebration of double century ) but the question remains same where is steamroller (FX), do we have to wait for 2015 ? (according to a pic in de5_Roy's latest link)

Thinkpad x140e is a part I've been raving about. I got one for my parents, and if they don't like it I'm going to buy it off them. If they do like it, I'm quite sure I'll be getting one myself. I refer to it as the mobile light gaming tank. But it's ultra-portable, no BS with it, good battery, all serviceable. Two DIMMs, removable battery. Lenovo did it right with x140e. The price is a little high but they keep revising things and it keeps slowing getting cheaper. I specced out a x140e a week or so ago and it came to $650. Now I can do it with same specs for about $550.

I don't expect any sort of FX part until we see something besides the 28nm process AMD Is using for Kaveri. As seen from overclocking Kaveri and how well GloFo 28nm "shp" scales with TDP, an FX style part on that process would be a massive disappointment. It would be one step forward with IPC and two steps backwards with stock clocks and overclocking headroom.

FX is sort of a halo product for AMD. The last thing they need is a halo product that's barely faster than what they had before. In fact, AMD has been there already and look what it did to them and consumer's opinions of AMD.

What AMD is doing with SR would be similar to if AMD didn't give enthusiasts Bulldozer FX, just used those for APUs, and then when Piledriver came around release FX parts. People would have probably been more likely to keep buying AMD CPUs (K10s) then, because the internet wouldn't be full of "WE WAITED YEARS FOR THIS IT S TERRIBLE IT BARELY BEATS THE LAST GENERATION!!!"

AMD would have been much better off floating 6 core K10 CPUs until Piledriver came out. I have a really good feeling that they would have just remained in their "not as good as Intel but still not bad" position instead of "BULLDOZER IS SUX LOOK AT SUPERPI!!!"

Rory Read should understand these sorts of concepts of marketability from working at Lenovo in the consumer space. At least, I would hope.

 

[de5_Roy]

Lenovo Essential E4325 may suit your need

btw, 8GB ram is less for me (previously i thoght that i can do with 4GB but then i got 64bit window), especially because i don't use virtual memory, window 7 takes 1-1.5GB and kaspersky chews 1GB ram when i start full system scan, and after using chrome for few hours and few tabs (30-50 only beause my monitor is 18.5" only ) i get a window notification which tells me that i ran out of memory

i posted on this thread after a long time, we have reached to 220+ pages ( oh! i missed the celebration of double century ) but the question remains same where is steamroller (FX), do we have to wait for 2015 ? (according to a pic in de5_Roy's latest link)

pd-fx will remain at the top for the time being. amd is simply attacking two-pronged at "moar cores" - 1. hsa enabling up to 12 compute cores in kaveri for highly (for mainstream dt) parallel processing using hsa-enabled softwares and 2. if you don't have hsa, multicore fx cpus for traditional 'moar cores'. i'd comment on lack of per-core perf. or discreet card gaming but there's been only one 7850k o.c. article and not much else so far.
amd seemingly didn't shoot for per-core performance this time. considering they sent a power efficient, very reasonably priced review sample to almost all of the review sites along with the 7850k, raw high performance may not have been the goal for sr. the reviewers' consensus on amd high perf. cpu is now something post-excavator. by high perf. i mean high per-core as well as multi-core cpu performance.

 

[juanrga]

i posted on this thread after a long time, we have reached to 220+ pages ( oh! i missed the celebration of double century ) but the question remains same where is steamroller (FX), do we have to wait for 2015 ? (according to a pic in de5_Roy's latest link)

There is no Steamroller FX. Check the 2014-2015 desktop roadmaps. The pic that you mention is a diagram of the architecture capabilities and reflects AMD older plans, when they planned to sell 16-core on die Steamroller Opterons. They were canceled, the same that Steamroller A was replaced by Steamroller B.