AMD CPU speculation... and expert conjecture

[noob2222]

There's way more competition in the ARM space. They'll have to compete with Samsung (which makes Intel look like a dwarf), Qualcomm (which is the size of Intel but without tons of debt), Nvidia, AMCC, Calxeda, Texas Instruments, to just name a few. These companies have been doing custom/semi-custom ARM cores for 5+ years. AMD has zero chance to catch up there anytime this decade.

AMD needs to execute better with x86 or they're toast. Steamroller should help a lot there if the IPC gains hold true.

Except for the fact that AMD is working on the ARM-64 cpu, mainly aimed at the server segment. AMD isn't using their ARM liscence for mobile (yet)

 

[truegenius]

Most people will generally accept that the 6800K will deliver 22-27% more performance than the 5800K. I was reading speculation on Kaviri using a HD8660 in dual graphics to produce performance close to a [strike]HD7870[/strike] HD7770, considering the chip and GPU will come to $220 that is extremely good performance. 55% stronger iGPU than that on Richland, which I assume is mostly down to metal level changes and a far faster GPU arch and doubling the amount of stream processors. I was thinking of buying a 6800k but will just save money and hold out for the Kaviri parts

fixed

 

[cgner]

Agreed, if this is 20% faster than phenom 2, AMD is actually doing well for itself.

 

[Cazalan]

Except for the fact that AMD is working on the ARM-64 cpu, mainly aimed at the server segment. AMD isn't using their ARM liscence for mobile (yet)

Doesn't change the competition as they're all working on 64bit ARM designs as well. Some already have prototypes up and running. From 1 competitor to 8. Who likes those odds when the average selling price is supposed to be 1/2 to 1/4 what an APU brings?


"Qualcomm is at least the eighth company now known to be working on ARM server SoCs. Others with announced or known plans include AMD, Applied Micro, Cavium, Calxeda, Marvell, Nvidia and Samsung. "

http://www.eetimes.com/electronics-news/4405658/Qualcomm-joins-crowd-in-ARM-server-SoCs

 

[kelbrok]

We have had several requests for a sticky on AMD's yet to be released Steamroller architecture ... so here it is.

I want to make a few things clear though.

Post a question relevant to the topic, or information about the topic, or it will be deleted.

Post any negative personal comments about another user ... and they will be deleted.

Post flame baiting comments about the blue, red and green team and they will be deleted.

Our previous sticky concerning Piledriver can be found here:

http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/343697-28-piledriver-rumours-expert-conjecture

Enjoy ...

thanks

 

[iceclock]

i think coming out with vishera was the first step in getting back in the game, sadly they wont be coming out with steamroller for 2013, but the good part is they can make it even faster if theyve got more time to release it. i just bough a 8350. and im gonna smoke anything with it, current cpu i5 2500, i just deceided to go back to amd as im impressed with there prices and good value. 8core even if its 4cores+4modules is very impressive for under 200$. and cant wait for steamroller.

 

[mayankleoboy1]

8core even if its 4cores+4modules is very impressive for under 200$. and cant wait for steamroller.

its not 4core+4 module.
Its 8 modules.

4+4 thinking is the intel HTT mentality, where the HTT thread was the redhead stepchild.
With the AMD implementation, all the 8 'modules' are equivalent.

 

[truegenius]

its not 4core+4 module.
Its 8 modules.

4+4 thinking is the intel HTT mentality, where the HTT thread was the redhead stepchild.
With the AMD implementation, all the 8 'modules' are equivalent.

you too mistyped it, fx8 is 4 module

 

[sarinaide]

its not 4core+4 module.
Its 8 modules.

4+4 thinking is the intel HTT mentality, where the HTT thread was the redhead stepchild.
With the AMD implementation, all the 8 'modules' are equivalent.

4 Modules/8 Cores

 

[MU_Engineer]

its not 4core+4 module.
Its 8 modules.

4+4 thinking is the intel HTT mentality, where the HTT thread was the redhead stepchild.
With the AMD implementation, all the 8 'modules' are equivalent.

The Bulldozer arch is a bit funny as the threads both are and aren't equivalent. The shared hardware in each module makes running two threads, one on two different modules, faster than running both threads on one module. Turbo CORE makes this a little less obvious as you get higher clockspeeds in running two threads on one module vs. two threads on two different modules. The "sharing penalty" is nowhere near that of running two threads on one Intel HyperThreading core but there is some penalty. It will be interesting to see how Steamroller with its change in decoder hardware will help with scaling.

 

[sarinaide]

Feed em pipelines faster I guess is the laymans perspective but not far from the truth. More decoders with wider and deeper instruction executions, more FPU's, faster IMC, lower latency, RCM could be very interesting. When it comes right it will be fast.

 

[mayankleoboy1]

but by then the world has already moved ahead.......
amd is still playing catch up

 

[MU_Engineer]

Feed em pipelines faster I guess is the laymans perspective but not far from the truth. More decoders with wider and deeper instruction executions, more FPU's, faster IMC, lower latency, RCM could be very interesting. When it comes right it will be fast.

Bulldozer is very much a tradeoff between cost, ease of manufacture, ability to add more cores, and per-thread performance. More decoders, wider/deeper buffers, beefier FPUs, faster IMC, lower latency all lead to a chip that is larger, more complex, and more expensive to manufacture. You would end up with something much more similar to Sandy Bridge (using Sandy Bridge as it is a 32 nm chip like BD/PD) than to the current Bulldozer/Piledriver. Sandy Bridge performs very well per core but notice what Intel charges for them and that there are few SBs with more than 4 cores. Above that the total core area gets large and you also need a huge amount of cache to keep everything fed. AMD's 8 integer core die takes up 315 mm^2 while Intel's 8 integer core SB-E die takes up a whopping 435 mm^2. The complexity of the full speed ring bus with that many stops and that much cache leads to much lower speeds in the higher core count parts as well. The current Piledriver design is able to compete very well with Intel's parts in anything reasonably multithreaded despite being smaller, less-complex, and a less expensive. My hunch is that AMD will tweak a little bit here and there where it is relatively cheap and easy to do. They won't try to revamp the chip to directly compete thread for thread with Intel but rather entire platform vs. entire platform.

 

[esrever]

Doesn't change the competition as they're all working on 64bit ARM designs as well. Some already have prototypes up and running. From 1 competitor to 8. Who likes those odds when the average selling price is supposed to be 1/2 to 1/4 what an APU brings?


"Qualcomm is at least the eighth company now known to be working on ARM server SoCs. Others with announced or known plans include AMD, Applied Micro, Cavium, Calxeda, Marvell, Nvidia and Samsung. "

http://www.eetimes.com/electronics-news/4405658/Qualcomm-joins-crowd-in-ARM-server-SoCs

There is very few companies with a compute fabric or server expertize like AMD. The market they are trying to hit with the ARM designs is still a new market. AMD would not be competing with Qualcomm or Samsung, they would be competing with calxeda and the likes. AMD can still make servers based on Samsung and Qualcomm's designs if they want. The ARM server market is pretty win win for AMD and having a reference platform makes sense from AMD's point of view as they need to expand or get left behind IF x86 doesn't continue to grow.

The SoC that are designed by the other companies won't be able to do anything on their own without a fabric. Unless Im missing something nobody has a ARM 64 bit server out yet. Even if AMD sticks very much to the reference ARM design, they will still have the advantage of having their own fabric. They are also on the forefront of HSA which would be great in these microservers in the future.

 

[Cazalan]

The SoC that are designed by the other companies won't be able to do anything on their own without a fabric. Unless Im missing something nobody has a ARM 64 bit server out yet. Even if AMD sticks very much to the reference ARM design, they will still have the advantage of having their own fabric. They are also on the forefront of HSA which would be great in these microservers in the future.

AMC (X-Gene) and Calxeda already have prototypes running and booting Linux platforms. X-Gene had that back in 2011. They both have fabric already in use on 32bit systems that are shipping. Facebook, Dell and HP are already building platforms around them. AMD may have bought a good PCIe fabric but it's not the only game in town.

http://www.apm.com/products/x-gene

http://www.calxeda.com/technology/products/

The 64bit ARM (ARMv8) instruction set came out in 2011. Not everyone has waited for the ARM core reference designs (A53/A57).

 

[esrever]

AMC (X-Gene) and Calxeda already have prototypes running and booting Linux platforms. X-Gene had that back in 2011. They both have fabric already in use on 32bit systems that are shipping. Facebook, Dell and HP are already building platforms around them. AMD may have bought a good PCIe fabric but it's not the only game in town.

http://www.apm.com/products/x-gene

http://www.calxeda.com/technology/products/

The 64bit ARM (ARMv8) instruction set came out in 2011. Not everyone has waited for the ARM core reference designs (A53/A57).

Umm, you just agreed with me. They are designing for 32bit systems. The market only has a few competitors.

 

[JAYDEEJOHN]

http://forum.beyond3d.com/showpost.php?p=1704803&postcount=949

 

[iceclock]

so how many cores modules does the 8350 have. vishera is a game changer. well for the price ur paying for a closed to 8 cores even if theres modules involved. and amd can level a intel processor. meaning close performance in many apps. only in certain games can intel have an edge. if you want just gaming intel is the way but if you like to game and do alot more stuff. than amd 8350 is a steal at 180$

 

[BeastLeeX]

so how many cores modules does the 8350 have. vishera is a game changer. well for the price ur paying for a closed to 8 cores even if theres modules involved. and amd can level a intel processor. meaning close performance in many apps. only in certain games can intel have an edge. if you want just gaming intel is the way but if you like to game and do alot more stuff. than amd 8350 is a steal at 180$

1 module has 2 integer cores (not a whole core, but not a half core, they need each other to run.) in it. 4 modules = 8 cores.

 

[iceclock]

how much slower would it be than lets say a 8core opteron?

 

[skitz9417]

Second Generation Piledriver FX CPUs Expected in June 2013

The other major news is that AMD, as we previously reported is indeed aiming for a Piledriver FX-CPU lineup refresh in June 2013. The successor to the FX-Vishera processors would mostly feature minor IPC improvements through increased clock frequencies.


Read more: http://wccftech.com/amd-launch-richland-apus-19th-march-piledriver-fx-cpu-refresh-expected-june-2013/#ixzz2KWat2O7h

http://img96.imageshack.us/img96/9662/steamroller.png

 

[iceclock]

its a 4core and 2 core mainstream cpu, thats irrelevant.

thats not performant, just low energy and low perfomant mainstream chips. this is about mainstream steamroller cpus, ur comment is irrelevant.

 

[tonync_01]

its a 4core and 2 core mainstream cpu, thats irrelevant.

thats not performant, just low energy and low perfomant mainstream chips. this is about mainstream steamroller cpus, ur comment is irrelevant.

Do you have a source for that?

The article is specifically talking about 2nd gen piledriver FX cpus. Which would be 4,6, and 8 core chips that are higher performing than vishera.

 

[iceclock]

nope. thats steamroller mate.

http://www.techradar.com/news/computing-components/processors/amds-ces-lineup-features-first-x86-quad-core-system-on-a-chip-1124019

nope.

http://wccftech.com/amd-richland-apu-feature-piledriver-cores-launching-2013-kabini-apu-radeon-hd-8000-series/

yes its possible piledriver 2.0 comes out. but how much faster they will be is to be scene as no one physically has them to benchmark them. i doubt gonna be that much or if anything faster than current vishera. also amds concentrating on lowpowered laptop chips and low-powered desktop stuff. and steamroller. i might beleive it when i see it. but the 8350 not that old and doubt they tweaked the architecture to the point its worth changing a 8350 to that.

 

[iceclock]

also this is steamroller speculation not vishera 2.0 0-0