AMD CPUs, SoC Rumors and Speculations Temp. thread 2

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The point is that the 40% claim made by Papermaster at FADD 2015 was based in simulations. She emphasizing that 40% is a "target" and that they "believe" that can match that target means that AMD doesn't have working silicon still.

The claimed 40% would be general/integer. The 2xFMAC units on Zen would provide about 80% higher performance than Excavator (Zen peak is 16FLOP/core Excavator peak is 8FLOP/core).

IPC isn't my real worry. My real worry is what clocks AMD Zen will be able to hit. I know that will not hit Skylake clocks, my doubt is if it will hit ~3.5GHz or lower. The fact they insistently avoid to mention clocks is a red flag for me.
 


I am less concerned about clockspeed at this point. I think as long as they land somewhere near where the APUs landed in the 3.5-4.0 GHz range, they will be ok...

You are banking heavily on their process not being well optimized if you think that they will not hit 3.5+
 
why would any company report performance of its taped products as confirmed performance since the actual product will definitely be better than it? until and unless it's extraordinary. the most logical method is saying some approximate performance which is higher than that of taped product.

edit -
http://wccftech.com/amd-zen-k12-taped/
 


I think you should have posted that link in a new post, so the thread is updated with new info. I think I just did that 😛
 


That confirms most of what I heard in regards to JK leaving.
 


thanks. i'll do that from next time.
 
what do you think about this rumor?
http://wccftech.com/amd-making-custom-x86-soc-apple-imacs-2017-2018/
 
saw that too. sounds good to me! I have high doubts though as apple people have always wanted to say they have the best option. mac pro's always have way overpowered cpu's and little to no gpu and an amd apu of this style just dosent sit with the business plan of apple for the last few years. of course with apple its all marketing and if you claim to have a new super high core count, great graphics super computer then appletards will flock as they do.
 


I doubt they would go for just one option as AMD. The only reason is because the way Apple works is through control of the hardware and software as much as they can. Adding in a new CPU and chipset that would need new custom drivers would mean more chances for issues which they try to avoid by any means.

With having just Intel in their desktop/laptop market they are able to have only one setup to write drivers for. If they planned to go AMD, and this is not the first rumor saying so, they would probably go all in to make sure their issues are limited.

Although the idea of having to pay less for a main part might entice them. That means even more profit margins which Apple is always happy to take.
 


It is coming from the same source that predicted 20-core FX CPUs, China giving funds to AMD, HBM on Carrizo,... Take your own conclusion.
 


I wrote a long reply to this, giving info about how neither Zen nor K12 are tapeout still, the technical reasons why cannot be, and which was the mistake made by Desdrenboy in his blog, which was taken as source for the WCCFTECH article. I also give relevant parts from the transcription of the earnings call that explains better what Lisa Su said. It was all deleted. I don't know why.
 


^^^ exactly get big ole bag of NaCl for this one.

apple did pick amd for their gpu's several times :/
 


GPU is different. That is one single product with one set of drivers. The chipset however contain the USB, the SATA, the PCIe bus and a multitude of other drivers that they would have to write for and support.

I still doubt it, mainly for the reason I stated. If Zen was that good then they would be moving everything to it and if it was that good it wouldn't be cheap.
 


And I gave only the short list of unfounded leaks...

Apple ditched Nvidia by AMD recently because (i) Nvidia transformed into direct competitor on tablet/phone space and (ii) Nvidia sued Apple for graphics patents.

Also Apple plans to replace Intel with its own in-house ARM-based SoCs.
 


Apple did ditch Nvidia over the law suit, just as they ditched Samsung over a similar lawsuit though...

LOL @ Apple Workstations with ARM CPUs instead of x86.

That was a good one...seriously...I needed that today...
 


By spanked you mean looks wise right? sp4 and SB both have skylake to mac air's broadwell, but broadwell in MacBook is clocked faster and since we only saw a 2.7% ipc improvement in skylake mac air's broadwell cpu's are slightly faster. secondly mac air is a "budget" version of SB so equal to slightly less cpu performance for less money.

where they win is design, 60% to 100% faster gpu and touch screen/pen input.

I don't know if id call that a spanking.

I currently own a SP3 and my mom got a free mac air broadwell ironically. they are just as fast as each other and I have to say the book with a (essentially a little faster sp3 with solid keyboard) isn't a spanking by any means.

and with the apple faithfull it dosent matter. they could release power G5 cpu's again and people would buy.
 


Which Surface Book are you even comparing to the Mac Air? The top end Mac Air has a i7 5650U which is 2.2GHz boosting to 3.2GHz. The Top Surface Book CPU is a i7 6600U which is 2.4GHz boosting to 3.4GHz. Another advantage is that the 6600U can be configured down to a 7.5W TDP while thew 5650U is only able to drop to 9.5W TDP.

The benefit to the Surface Book is that it can do what the Surface Does (be a tablet) and still be able to use it like a normal laptop with a much better docking keyboard. It pretty much covers tablet to laptop. I am highly interested in one for work since I have to work outside and having the ability to pull the screen would be nice instead of having to lug around my heavy ass Dell laptop I have.

Either way thats a bit off topic so lets steer this back towards AMDs CPUs of the future.

I swear every time Apple gets involved in a discussion it derails the crap out of a train.
 


My concern in this topic, regarding Apple using AMD CPUs, is that Intel has a lot of bargain power. Even if Zen is very efficient, and Apple doesn't mind writing some new drivers to use a new platform, Intel can just lower the price so low that refusing would be a foolish decision. I still believe that's why we don't see many Carrizo laptops with good displays or even in the mid-range. AMD may have a good product, and release a great CPU, but when it comes to dealing with OEM and contracts where the competition is Intel, I don't believe they have the strength to beat them.
 
may be apple plans to use hsa! amd will also be cheaper than intel solution. of course apple will replace x86 chips with arm later.
 


If the AMD solution is going to be cheaper than Intel then it will not perform as well. When AMD was a better performing part it cost more than Intel. That is just how the market goes.

I have been telling people this for years and people still see AMD as this consumer loving company. I think it is because they have always been the smaller company but even the Fury X goes to show that when performance gets close to, matches or beats AMD will price accordingly. The Fury X is just under a GTX 980Ti
and it is a mixed bag but is not overall a better performing part so it is priced near the 980Ti.

If Zen performs better AMD will price it where it lays, not cheaper. They are not going to survive and become a profitable company keeping prices low.
 
the thing is i'm not expecting zen to be better than the latest of intel. so i expect it to be cheaper.
 


yea sorry it does derail. I was comparing to the 13in MacBook pro. the air is much cheaper and slower but also the SP4 competition.
 


In the consumer space I agree- but for large OEMs? Even if they have a stellar part, a large OEM is going to expect a discount compared to Intel imo as AMD have less brand recognition ('Intel Inside' sells product, an 'AMD' sticker on the other hand has a negative effect more often than not, even when they were ahead).

I personally could see Apple going with AMD for a lot of their mainstream systems, but AMD will probably get pressured on price. The thing is though, if Apple can start shifting a lot of inventory and get a bit of a positive brand recognition for AMD in the process, it'd probably be worth them taking a bit of a hit on the margin.

I mean, performance aside for a minute, the *main* factor that really matters here is the amount of money AMD can get per wafer they have to buy. Zen by all accounts is a fairly conservative core, so a 4 core (8 thread) zen cpu might not actually have to be that expensive. A larger 8 core / 16 thread die obviously will be. I mean looking at Fury, it's *actually bloody cheap* for the amount of silicone involved. They are offering a gpu that is slightly bigger than GM200, + an interposer + brand new HBM memory for the same price. Frankly from a manufacturing cost perspective it should cost more than the GTX 980ti, AMD were evidently forced to keep it price competitive. This is also the down side of their approach of using last gen larger die gpu's vs nvidias smaller Maxwell parts- AMD are giving away high end, expensive to manufacture large dies at the same cost as a comparatively minuscule part from nVidia. You can bet which company is making more money.
 

hear, hear. lol! i love using this.
 
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