News AMD launches Ryzen 8000G ‘Phoenix’ APUs, brings AI to the desktop PC - reveals Zen 4c clocks for the first time

[Admin]

AMD announced four processors in its new Ryzen 8000G ‘Phoenix’ lineup of APUs for its desktop AM5 PCs here at CES 2024 in Las Vegas, Nevada, bringing 1080p-capable integrated graphics to the company’s newest platform for the first time.

AMD launches Ryzen 8000G ‘Phoenix’ APUs, brings AI to the desktop PC - reveals Zen 4c clocks for the first time : Read more

 

[usertests]

The XDNA engine delivers roughly the same 39 TOPS of performance as the mobile variants

Only 16 TOPS. 39 TOPS is some theoretical combined performance of CPU + iGPU + XDNA1.

As for XDNA clocks, I wonder if it has base/turbo.

The chips also support the PCIe 5.0 interface, a huge improvement over the PCIe 3.0 found on the prior-gen APUs. Notably, AMD’s latest mobile variants, which largely share the same design, only support PCIe 4.0. That means AMD has either updated the PCIe root complex with the 8000G desktop models, or merely runs the PCIe lanes on the mobile models at a lower speed than it could (which would make sense for mobile).

Completely unexpected, neat.

AMD also shared benchmarks versus the UHD 770 graphics engine present in Intel’s Core i9 and i7 processors.

It sure fell flat in Far Cry 6 they included for fairness.

 

[George³]

Definitely start prices seems right numbers. Was rumors for to be higher.
When got first few monthly salaries in my live will got small cheap sweet computer without dGPU. With 8600G or with 8700G if it's price decrease to time that I will have cash.

 

[artk2219]

Only 16 TOPS. 39 TOPS is some theoretical combined performance of CPU + iGPU + XDNA1.

As for XDNA clocks, I wonder if it has base/turbo.


Completely unexpected, neat.


It sure fell flat in Far Cry 6 they included for fairness.

It makes sense that it would share the same PCIE 5.0 interface, its what zen 4 was designed with, and since these chips are just tweaked zen 4, it should come with it by default. That said, guess which range of chips wont be getting a PCIE 6 upgrade down the line hah, at least not until AM6.

 

[George³]

It makes sense that it would share the same PCIE 5.0 interface, its what zen 4 was designed with, and since these chips are just tweaked zen 4, it should come with it by default. That said, guess which range of chips wont be getting a PCIE 6 upgrade down the line hah, at least not until AM6.

PCI-Express:Gen 4, 20 Lanes
(CPU only) TPU database.

 

[artk2219]

https://www.tomshardware.com/news/a...ications-pricing-benchmarks-all-we-know-specs

https://www.anandtech.com/show/1758...-ryzen-5-7600x-review-retaking-the-high-end/3

All Ryzen 7000 series desktop chips come with DDR 5 and PCIE 5 by default, im surprised TPU hasn't caught that, they're usually pretty good at keeping their stuff up to date. That said, the mobile side may be different, im pretty sure the 7040, 8040, etc have pcie 4.0, but getting detailed information about those is difficult.

 

[George³]

https://www.tomshardware.com/news/a...ications-pricing-benchmarks-all-we-know-specs

https://www.anandtech.com/show/1758...-ryzen-5-7600x-review-retaking-the-high-end/3

All Ryzen 7000 series desktop chips come with DDR 5 and PCIE 5 by default, im surprised TPU hasn't caught that, they're usually pretty good at keeping their stuff up to date. That said, the mobile side may be different, im pretty sure the 7040, 8040, etc have pcie 4.0, but getting detailed information about those is difficult.

Yes for DDR5, yes for PCIe 5.0 for Ryzen 7000X and non X because its are part of mainline. 8000G series are monolith APU with it's own design. You see that has much smaller amount of caches compared to 7000/X series and this few other differences for version and number of PCIe lanes.

 

[artk2219]

Yes for DDR5, yes for PCIe 5.0 for Ryzen 7000X and non X because its are part of mainline. 8000G series are monolith APU with it's own design. You see that has much smaller amount of caches compared to 7000/X series and this few other differences for version and number of PCIe lanes.

Fair enough, my thought process was that since they were using desktop Zen 4 as the base it would keep as many basic features as possible, so you're not redesigning everything. Since PCIE 5 is included with the IO die on the desktop cpu', that feature parity would carry over since it was likely a bigger redesign than it was worth. Then again it doesn't even matter since these are likely to be paired with A620 or B650 (non extreme) boards which either flat out dont, or only optionally support PCIE 5.0. The 600 series chipsets are kind of weird in that regard.

https://www.tomshardware.com/news/a...rrives-without-full-support-for-65w-plus-cpus

 

[rluker5]

Intel has had AI in their desktop chips for years now. They call it gaussian neural accelerator. The first one I personally had I got in 2021.
Not as powerful as the latest AMD iteration but it does exist. I've heard it is used for voice recognition.

 

[thestryker]

The pricing is exactly what I expected and inherently isn't a problem given the CPU stack. The problem is that the only way to get the best graphics is by buying the best APU. Unless you're space constrained (or if you're trying for minimal power usage) to the point you cannot add a discrete card it makes no sense to buy the 8700G for graphics performance. You'd be better off buying a 7600, saving the $130, and scraping together the rest of the money for something like a RX 6600/Arc A750.

I'm glad these exist as better integrated graphics on desktop is a welcome sight, but I'd be much happier if the best graphics were available across the stack, or at the very least the top two.

 

[jackt]

why it isnt zen5 ?
and when the CPUs ?

 

[vehekos]

I wonder exactly what calculations the "Neural Processing Unit" performs. Meaning, to which other tasks can it be repurposed? Matrix products? Massive SIMD?

 

[usertests]

All Ryzen 7000 series desktop chips come with DDR 5 and PCIE 5 by default, im surprised TPU hasn't caught that, they're usually pretty good at keeping their stuff up to date. That said, the mobile side may be different, im pretty sure the 7040, 8040, etc have pcie 4.0, but getting detailed information about those is difficult.

The 5700G only had PCIe 3.0, just like the mobile Cezanne APUs it was based on. So the expectation was that the 8700G would be limited to PCIe 4.0, like Phoenix/Hawk. PCIe 5.0 is unexpected.

That future proofs it for SSD speeds, and I think there's only 8 lanes for the GPU so that's a little better long down the road.

Intel has had AI in their desktop chips for years now. They call it gaussian neural accelerator. The first one I personally had I got in 2021.
Not as powerful as the latest AMD iteration but it does exist. I've heard it is used for voice recognition.

Phoenix has a separate audio co-processor that might be used for the same type of thing:

https://chipsandcheese.com/2023/09/16/hot-chips-2023-amds-phoenix-soc/#:~:text=for machine learning.-,Audio Co-Processor,-As you might

The AI accelerators in Meteor Lake and Phoenix aren't anything too exciting. Strix Point's AI accelerator will have about 3 times the performance of Hawk Point (45-50 TOPS instead of 16 TOPS), and is confirmed to come out later this year.

I wonder exactly what calculations do the "Neural Processing Unit", meaning to which other things it can be repurposed. Matrix products? massive SIMD?

It's good for INT8 operations, possibly more. Separately, you might want to use the AVX-512 support found in Zen 4 products.

 

[cyrusfox]

AMD also shared benchmarks versus the UHD 770 graphics engine present in Intel’s Core i9 and i7 processors.

It sure fell flat in Far Cry 6 they included for fairness.

AMD should be killing Intel with its 12CU/8CU(768/512 Shader cores), compared to Intels Paltry 32 EU(Essentially 256 Shader Cores)[AMD has 64 shaders per CU, Intel has 8 per EU].

Intels i-GPU on desktop has much more in common with the 8500G & 8300G with its 4CU(256 Shader) and matching shading engine capability. Would be much more interesting to see that comparison to see how the i-GPU engine compares between these 2.

With no meteor lake comparison (Which we know will be coming to SFF), the bottom left snippet is a bit disingenuous. We need a proper i-GPU throwdown, put max spec meteor i-GPU (128EU/1024 Shaders) against 8700G, I think the results would be very interesting indeed (AMD driver optimization, vs Intel higher core). AMD may still pull off the win thanks to maturity/experience.

 

[Amdlova]

just grab a i3 and a used graphics Way cheaper!

 

[usertests]

Intels i-GPU on desktop has much more in common with the 8500G & 8300G with its 4CU(256 Shader) and matching shading engine capability. Would be much more interesting to see that comparison to see how the i-GPU engine compares between these 2.

With no meteor lake comparison (Which we know will be coming to SFF), the bottom left snippet is a bit disingenuous. We need a proper i-GPU throwdown, put max spec meteor i-GPU (128EU/1024 Shaders) against 8700G, I think the resutls would be very interesting indeed (AMD driver optimization, vs Intel higher core). AMD may still pull off the win thanks to maturity/experience.

I think the results for all of these are floating around out there. We already saw top Meteor Lake pitted against top Phoenix. A desktop version of Phoenix shouldn't change much, although you could test the effect of fast DDR5 vs. the best LPDDR5 that gets paired with mobile Phoenix.

740M graphics was found in the ROG Ally Z1 non-extreme. A pre-built PC with 8300G or 8500G could be a good buy... after a steep clearance (e.g. $300 total), and should excel in things like emulation.

 

[suryasans]

AMD Ryzen 8000G series SoCs don't support PCIe 5.0 lanes, but only PCIe 4.0 lanes with only 16 PCIe lanes available for user expansions. So, there are 8 lanes for GPP and 8 lanes for two NVMe storages.

 

[suryasans]

AMD Ryzen 8000G series SoCs don't support PCIe 5.0 lanes, but only PCIe 4.0 lanes with only 16 PCIe lanes available for user expansions. So, there are 8 lanes for GPP and 8 lanes for two NVMe storages.

https://www.amd.com/en/product/14066

 

[Gillerer]

I believe the product specification table lists combined L2+L3 caches in the "L3 (MB)" column. This makes the difference between R7/R5 make sense; you lose 2 MB of L2 from disabling two cores.

The Ryzen 3 SKU has 8 MB of L3 and all the others 16 MB. Each core will have 1 MB of L2 (regardless of type; Z4/Z4c).

 

[purpleduggy]

AMD announced four processors in its new Ryzen 8000G ‘Phoenix’ lineup of APUs for its desktop AM5 PCs here at CES 2024 in Las Vegas, Nevada, bringing 1080p-capable integrated graphics to the company’s newest platform for the first time.

AMD launches Ryzen 8000G ‘Phoenix’ APUs, brings AI to the desktop PC - reveals Zen 4c clocks for the first time : Read more

i want to see AMD make a high end APU, with flagship CPU and flagship GPU combined. imagine 7950X3D + 7900XT on a single chip with 24GB HBM memory.

 

[The Historical Fidelity]

just grab a i3 and a used graphics Way cheaper!

I don’t think an i3-530 from 2010 is gonna cut it lol!

Just nitpicking haha

 

[bramahon]

A perfect upgrade for my little 3200g that saved my sanity when the GPU of my main gaming rig went cold during peak of the pandemic! Upon release the performance was comparable to a GT 1030 and I still use it along with a 1600x900 monitor for older games. I think I can finally move to 1080p with 8000G

 

[lufusol]

AMD oughta just take a 7800x and cram 24 RDNA cores around it. I'd pay $500 for that. And they could require 32gb ddr5-6400+ / 12ns or less first word latency for full performance. Chiplet design. Be a screamer. Hot, too. But they won't, cowards.
Intel. Battlemage. Let's goooo

 

[The Historical Fidelity]

AMD oughta just take a 7800x and cram 24 RDNA cores around it. I'd pay $500 for that. And they could require 32gb ddr5-6400+ / 12ns or less first word latency for full performance. Chiplet design. Be a screamer. Hot, too. But they won't, cowards.
Intel. Battlemage. Let's goooo

Ever heard of the AMD STRIX Halo?

16 zen5 cores mated to a 40CU RDNA3.5 graphics core. Slated to come out end of this year or early 2025.

https://www.techpowerup.com/315319/...-halo-and-signficant-ai-performance-increases

 

[George³]

Ever heard of the AMD STRIX Halo?

16 zen5 cores mated to a 40CU RDNA3.5 graphics core. Slated to come out end of this year or early 2025.

https://www.techpowerup.com/315319/...-halo-and-signficant-ai-performance-increases

This could easily turn out to be the biggest rumor bubble in history and a confusion of actual information with fiction. It's entirely possible that there is a pre-soldered product with that much logic that is...a car computer. So, someone may have misinterpreted a piece of information to be a preparation for a product for use in the PC niche, because of some resemblance to an Apple product.