AMD Loses Raja Koduri To Intel

[shrapnel_indie]

There's a reason US courts have never gone after Intel: we believe in free market competition. If AMD wants to compete, let them. They finally did with Ryzen. It only took 15 years.

AMD competed with Intel previous to that 15 years of wilderness pretty well too. Back with the x86 architecture, primarily the 486 line, Intel tried to sue over the name of the CPU, the courts said you can't do that with just a numerical nomenclature. (AMD sales were strong at the time. It's also why Intel had the Pentium instead of a 586.) AMD64 crushed Intel initially since they failed with Pentium IV. Phenom II competed strongly with price/performance with Intel... then AMD took that left turn with BullDozer which landed them in that wilderness.

Now. let's get back on-topic.

 

[redgarl]

Im guessing Intel is about to infringe on some AMD patents in order to copy radeon gpus.

First: order radeon GPUs for tablet chips in order to get specs on integrating to the cpu.
2nd include some clause for "cross licensing"
3rd hire radeons engineers.
4th copy design stating "its in the cross licensing agreement"
5th laugh at how Intel broke the law again.

You have an amazing crystal ball. Can I borrow it? I want this weekend's Power Ball lottery numbers. Thanks.

But seriously, to my knowledge, the only serious thing Intel has ever been accused of, and fined for, is supposedly "abusing" its dominant position in markets in Europe against AMD for years. They were slapped with a hefty €1.3 billion fine for that in 2009 by the EU Commission (Intel was discounting and giving incentives to sell more of their CPUs to OEM PC makers and stores that sell their retail box chips, just as two examples).

However, it was upheld in the second highest court in the EU (Court Justice of the European Union aka the EJC) in 2014. The EJC stated that there was not sufficient evidence brought forward to charge Intel with unfair trade practices, specifically on how their actions affected AMD's capacity to compete against them. So now it's back to the lower court that brought the original charges. There's a reason US courts have never gone after Intel: we believe in free market competition. If AMD wants to compete, let them. They finally did with Ryzen. It only took 15 years.

Now, if you can tell me where Intel ever stole a patent design from someone else and was actually convicted of it and fined (vs. just baseless unproven accusations), I'm all ears.

CMON, it is so obvious that the main purpose of this is reengineering AMD technology which is a huge concerns. This is not happening in China, this is happening in America. It is extremely disturbing and if I was AMD, I would sue right away. It is not a non-competing agreement now, it is industrial espionage.

 

[10tacle]

AMD64 crushed Intel initially since they failed with Pentium IV. Phenom II competed strongly with price/performance with Intel... then AMD took that left turn with BullDozer which landed them in that wilderness.

Now. let's get back on-topic.

Well it actually is on topic because a very important AMD insider is now at Intel. Regarding the Pentium IV, that's what I meant in that 15 year gap. Regarding the Phenom II, yes it was competitive to a degree against Intel's Core series, but it depended on what you were doing with it. Intel's i5 2500K was the better chip in productivity apps at the time whereas the Phenom II X4 975 was better in gaming at the time (http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/core-i5-2500k-vs-phenom-ii-x4-975-be-cpu-review/). That's a complete reversal of where we are today generally.

 

[10tacle]

CMON, it is so obvious that the main purpose of this is reengineering AMD technology which is a huge concerns. This is not happening in China, this is happening in America. It is extremely disturbing and if I was AMD, I would sue right away. It is not a non-competing agreement now, it is industrial espionage.

Another crystal ball reader. Well, let's wait for the patent infringement lawsuits to show up. You can't just sue or convict when you THINK something may happen. This is not the Minority Report movie.

PS: I was wrong on Intel being sued for patent infringement. I had forgotten their 2002 suit and edited my post.

 

[bit_user]

presumably, there are non-compete agreements littering the halls of both companies.

I'm surprised nobody has yet pointed out that non-compete's are banned, in California. His new role will be in CA, though I'm not sure in what state he worked for AMD.

Also, it's a little more difficult to sue someone for non-compete, if they were fired (in case he was).

There's not so much concern over IP, since Intel just inked a deal with AMD to license its graphics IP. Now, I know that probably doesn't cover trade secrets and other non-patent categories of IP, but it's at least plausible he could manage the group at Intel without violating his NDAs with AMD.

 

[therealduckofdeath]

What baffles me the most is that there are so many who thinks Intel will have a fully fledged GPU solution in a year just by hiring one guy. If it was that simple, this guy would have destroyed Nvidia....
I'm guessing Intel is hiring this guy to help make the AMD iGPU transition more fluent, not to single-handedly develop a new GPU solution that will destroy everything.

 

[bit_user]

This is the one thing that baffles me about Intel: how come they can't make a decent graphics chip?

Intel's integrated GPUs are good for what they are. The main thing holding Intel back from scaling it up and turning it into a decent discrete graphics card has merely been the will.

they did try it was called project larrabee

Yes and no. Larrabee was supposed to be a high-performance compute accelerator and graphics card. What they found is that x86 couldn't do both, so they dropped the graphics functionality, in the next generation, and branded it Xeon Phi. Even in that case, x86 is still a mixed blessing - it's good at some tasks that GPUs aren't, but can't reach the power efficiency or raw compute performance levels of GPUs.

 

[10tacle]

What baffles me the most is that there are so many who thinks Intel will have a fully fledged GPU solution in a year just by hiring one guy. If it was that simple, this guy would have destroyed Nvidia....

Thank you. A common sense level-headed non-knee jerk response. The people here saying that he's going to give up all of AMD's secretive patent data are making baseless and unfounded accusations. AMD has chosen to put most of their eggs in improving their CPU basket, which is fine and been welcomed for some time. But they do not have the capacity currently to spend tens if not hundreds of millions in R&D on *both* to compete at high level with both Intel and Nvidia who are their own specialists.

 

[bit_user]

I can't seem to find the link, but I recall reading in an article how Vega Frontier was blue because Raja liked that color.

Funny coincidence.

 

[TJ Hooker]

There's not so much concern over IP, since Intel just inked a deal with AMD to license its graphics IP.

I thought the deal was just Intel buying (semi-custom) GPUs from AMD to stick in their EMIB packages. That's different than actually licensing the IP, no?

 

[kinggremlin]

There's not so much concern over IP, since Intel just inked a deal with AMD to license its graphics IP.

I thought the deal was just Intel buying (semi-custom) GPUs from AMD to stick in their EMIB packages. That's different than actually licensing the IP, no?

You are correct. Intel is not licensing any IP from AMD. They are just getting complete dies to use as demonstrations of their EMIB interface. It's basically an OEM design win for AMD, not a licensing deal.

 

[kinggremlin]

What baffles me the most is that there are so many who thinks Intel will have a fully fledged GPU solution in a year just by hiring one guy. If it was that simple, this guy would have destroyed Nvidia....
I'm guessing Intel is hiring this guy to help make the AMD iGPU transition more fluent, not to single-handedly develop a new GPU solution that will destroy everything.

Are you confusing this thread with another one? No one has said any of what you arguing against.

From the official Intel press release on their website:

"Intel today announced the appointment of Raja Koduri as Intel chief architect, senior vice president of the newly formed Core and Visual Computing Group, and general manager of a new initiative to drive edge computing solutions. In this position, Koduri will expand Intel’s leading position in integrated graphics for the PC market with high-end discrete graphics solutions for a broad range of computing segments."

High-end discrete graphics solutions. Intel is not going to create a new division in their company and hire the chief architect from AMD to figure out how to slap an AMD GPU onto their EMIB interface.

 

[Co BIY]

"For perspective, AMD's entire Computing and Graphics group, which consists of both processors and graphics revenue, weighed in at $819 million last quarter."

It would add even more perspective to note:

For the 3rd quarter, Nvidia posted revenue of $2.64 billion. $1.5 from Gaming alone.

 

[technoor]

Ah, forgot about that.

Since NDA's and non-compete's are two different beasts - he's all set.

presumably, there are non-compete agreements littering the halls of both companies.

I'm surprised nobody has yet pointed out that non-compete's are banned, in California. His new role will be in CA, though I'm not sure in what state he worked for AMD.

Also, it's a little more difficult to sue someone for non-compete, if they were fired (in case he was).

There's not so much concern over IP, since Intel just inked a deal with AMD to license its graphics IP. Now, I know that probably doesn't cover trade secrets and other non-patent categories of IP, but it's at least plausible he could manage the group at Intel without violating his NDAs with AMD.

 

[therealduckofdeath]

@KINGGREMLIN, no, it's just that unlike you, I seem to read some of the previous comments. You should try that yourself, especially if you're going to criticise others for doing that. 😉

 

[kinggremlin]

@KINGGREMLIN, no, it's just that unlike you, I seem to read some of the previous comments. You should try that yourself, especially if you're going to criticise others for doing that. 😉

Only one person in this thread has mentioned a one year time frame. And that was in reference to having a substitute for the embedded solution Intel is licensing from AMD. That's certainly technically possible as we have no idea how fast the chip Intel is getting is. They may already have something in the pipeline capable of that. However, we already know that isn't going to happen as Raja was not hired to improve embedded GPU's.

So if that is the basis for your "What baffles me the most is that there are so many," then I stand by everything I said.

You also ignored the second part which was idiotic speculation in direct opposition with what Intel has already announced their intentions are.

 

[wertport]

@KINGGREMLIN Oh really, so tell me the pinout voltage of pin number 567 or the pins that connect HBM to GPU on an RX Vega. Write a code that computes something and just before the last cycle copy data into L2 cache and so on. Write code that optimize for internal data path on AMd graphics. oh you can't? Well Intel obviously can't do it either they will have to reverse engineer a monster chip. Intel hires RAJA because he knows AMD graphics inside out and will make it easy to code for AMD graphics.

 

[bit_user]

There's not so much concern over IP, since Intel just inked a deal with AMD to license its graphics IP.

I thought the deal was just Intel buying (semi-custom) GPUs from AMD to stick in their EMIB packages. That's different than actually licensing the IP, no?

I was referring to the rumors (news, I thought) about Intel switching to AMD after its IP licensing agreement with Nvidia lapsed. Apparently, those rumors were either baseless or perhaps actually referring to this deal.

https://www.fool.com/investing/2017/05/18/there-is-no-intel-amd-licensing-deal.aspx
https://www.techpowerup.com/233444/intel-denies-graphics-ip-licensing-deal-with-amd

 

[bit_user]

Intel hires RAJA because he knows AMD graphics inside out and will make it easy to code for AMD graphics.

Intel has lots of smart engineers and managers. They wouldn't have inked a deal with AMD that would put them at some huge disadvantage, effectively requiring them to lure away one of its architects. I think it's safe to assume that the deal included enough collaboration for Intel to properly support the end product.

Raja is joining to become a Senior VP of one of their business units. This is an extremely a high-level role, and shouldn't involve any actual design, engineering, or architecture work. Otherwise, it just might raise concerns about NDA violations. And the move is so high-profile that it's unlikely any significant violations would fly under the radar.

I'm not an expert on Intel's organization, but the article suggests this will be the 6th business unit and Wikipedia says Intel has 106,000 employees. Consider that most of them fit into one of the business units, and you'll perhaps get an idea of how high-level his new role is. People at that level tend to make decisions about budgets, acquisitions, overall business strategy, hiring/firing middle managers, etc. Even at many tech companies, you'd find people in this role with no engineering background.

 

[kinggremlin]

@KINGGREMLIN Oh really, so tell me the pinout voltage of pin number 567 or the pins that connect HBM to GPU on an RX Vega. Write a code that computes something and just before the last cycle copy data into L2 cache and so on. Write code that optimize for internal data path on AMd graphics. oh you can't? Well Intel obviously can't do it either they will have to reverse engineer a monster chip. Intel hires RAJA because he knows AMD graphics inside out and will make it easy to code for AMD graphics.

Hiring the chief architect of the company is a really cost inefficient way of acquiring this information, especially considering he probably doesn't know the information himself. All that information is provided as part of the deal to purchase the chips. If everyone at Intel loses their copy of the information, they can still send a free* text message to someone at AMD for it.

*Standard data and messaging rates may apply

 

[funguseater]

How is this even possible in this age on non-compete clauses.

 

[bit_user]

How is this even possible in this age on non-compete clauses.

Yeah, and 46-posts into this thread, you'd think the topic might've come up.

 

[mihen]

If this works out for Intel, its bad news for nVidia. They will no longer have a market outside of $200+ GPUs.

 

[samer.forums]

Intel cant do anything without buying the Patents.

AMD took all ATI Patents and thats why they could make better cards.

Intel cant do anything by Just hiring AMD people.

 

[Mousemonkey]

If this works out for Intel, its bad news for nVidia. They will no longer have a market outside of $200+ GPUs.

I doubt anyone over at Nvidia is losing sleep over this.

http://www.guru3d.com/news-story/nvidia-posts-financial-results-for-third-quarter-fiscal-2018.html