News AMD, NVIDIA Shut Out as Intel Eyes $52 Billion CHIPS Act Windfall

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Didn't Intel buy up a bunch of TSMC supply? And then on top of it flip flopped on their china stance? Wait didn't they also release their new GPU to China Only?

Intel already receives billions in government subsidies and tax breaks while AMD & Nvidia receive practically nothing. Absolutely insane congress is giving Intel another handout
 
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Liquidrider said:
Didn't Intel buy up a bunch of TSMC supply? And then on top of it flip flopped on their china stance? Wait didn't they also release their new GPU to China Only?

Intel already receives billions in government subsidies and tax breaks while AMD & Nvidia receive practically nothing. Absolutely insane congress is giving Intel another handout
Click to expand...

Compare Intel vs AMD campaign spending and you'll see why that is.

Here's Intel's spending, interesting that they donated to both Joe Biden and Donald Trump, who does that??? Why donate to both candidates unless you don't care who wins, only that they'll remember who gave you all that money? Obviously for favors and influence like this! https://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/intel-corp/summary?id=D000000804

Here's AMD's spending it's very little comparatively: https://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/advanced-micro-devices/summary?id=D000023765

Same with Nvidia, they spend comparatively very little: https://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/nvidia-corp/summary?id=D000036303
 
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Conversely, AMD and NVIDIA could also fab their own chips in the USA and get a piece of the action, but they continue to use TSMC. While TSMC has fabs in Arizona, the parent company is located in Taiwan. Depending on the outcome in Ukraine, TSMC could be in crosshairs of a hostile takeover by Beijing. An absence of sufficient semiconductors in the USA is a consumer and national security disaster. Strong US semiconductor manufacturing provides insurance against these supply chain and intellectual property issues that would occur from a Chinese takeover of TSMC, and $52 billion is rather inexpensive to foster innovation, new jobs, and competition. Intel's new US-based fab will create 3000 permanent engineering, technical and administrative jobs, not to mention 7000 construction jobs.
 
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Liquidrider said:
Didn't Intel buy up a bunch of TSMC supply? And then on top of it flip flopped on their china stance? Wait didn't they also release their new GPU to China Only?

Intel already receives billions in government subsidies and tax breaks while AMD & Nvidia receive practically nothing. Absolutely insane congress is giving Intel another handout
Click to expand...


Intel is doing a slow roll out. The GPUs were built in Asia, so they got to market first to meet their release 'deadline'. The ones headed here were sent by ship, which takes a while and then through customs. They've been ramping up press lately so you should see GPUs on the shelves, probably before the end of the month would be my guess.

US reviewers have gotten their hands on the A380 and A750 so far.
 
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I saw this report and rolled my eyes. Intel hardly needs the money either, but if they build fabs in the US that's a benefit in terms of jobs and future sector growth (ex: Ohio is seeing several suppliers coming with Intel) versus just getting a handout which is what the others seem to want.

As for comparing Intel to AMD and Nvidia: Intel already has around 50k US based employees and while I couldn't find US totals for the other two AMD has around 15.5k and Nvidia has around 22.5k worldwide. It's fair to say that the number of US based is a good amount lower than those figures and giving them a handout wouldn't change anything here.
 
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I really hate handouts to huge corporations. We can provide plenty of pork to Intel and other companies, but struggle to maintain the health, nutritional, and housing needs of our people. Intel doesn't need the handout. They're rich and profitable enough already. There are better ways to spend this money.

However, getting more fabs built in the US is a huge priority. There should be several fabrication hubs spread around the globe. Concentrating everything in Taiwan was a huge mistake -- one pushed by greedy companies that are peers to Intel. The needs and complaints of companies that helped get us into this supply chain mess and single point of production failure have zero business making any noise about being left out. Ignore them. Keep the focus on building out more fabs here, not rewarding designers who shipped their designs off to cheaper production facilities.
 
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The purpose of the bill is to encourage US manufacturing of IC's AMD and Nividia have the option of getting a US supplier to mate their parts., AMD and Nividia chose to get out of, or never enter the semiconductor fab business. AMD and Nividia could partner with Samsung, Micron, Global Foundries, or even Intel to get back in the Fab business.

Isn't TSMC getting money from this as well?
 
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kjfatl said:
The purpose of the bill is to encourage US manufacturing of IC's AMD and Nividia have the option of getting a US supplier to mate their parts., AMD and Nividia chose to get out of, or never enter the semiconductor fab business. AMD and Nividia could partner with Samsung, Micron, Global Foundries, or even Intel to get back in the Fab business.

Isn't TSMC getting money from this as well?
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AMD was originally a foundry that made Intel Chips as a second source supplier, which they then copied and started their own chips(clone of Intel 8080). It wasn't until the 1990's that they grew big in popularity with the K-Series processors to compete with Intel's pentium chips.

When AMD couldn't keep up with the investment needed to move to a smaller node, they divested their fab(Global Foundries) and found some oil shiek's to buy a partnership. They somewhat abandoned them when they wanted to get smaller than 14nm with Zen 2. But continues to satisfy their agreement with their middle eastern partners by buying I/O dies from global foundries, because I/O chiplets don't need to be on the latest node.
 
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kjfatl said:
TSMC is building in Arizona so they can poach workers from Intel and take advantage of the infrastructure already in place to support Intel's new and existing fabs there.
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Okay. Chips need to be manufactured in the US regardless of who makes what. And yes, the fab plant has been here since I moved to AZ in 2011.
 
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Yes, it benefits Intel the most. Bit unfair? Nope. US is lagging badly behind Taiwan and Korea when it comes to wafer fab.

The ability for USA to manufacture its own chips is even more important than ability to design. Since Apple, AMD and Nvidia aren't doing it, it has to be Intel.
 
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Seems to me like the US and Europe are preparing for the reality of China invading Taiwan over the next decade or so and can effectively protect (since it will no longer be a "security" concern) or throw it to thew wolves (since it is no longer needed by US firms). Indeed, given that TSCM is currently a key partner for US-based chip manufacturing (including weapons), the CCP might now move forward with its plans to invade Taiwan before they will no longer be able to leverage TSCM to stop US involvement in a potential war.
 
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Liquidrider said:
Didn't Intel buy up a bunch of TSMC supply? And then on top of it flip flopped on their china stance? Wait didn't they also release their new GPU to China Only?

Intel already receives billions in government subsidies and tax breaks while AMD & Nvidia receive practically nothing. Absolutely insane congress is giving Intel another handout
Click to expand...

Err, no AMD and Nvidia are winning gov't supercomputer contracts with every federal department. More money than Intel is getting for building out fabs in the US. TSMC and the gov't of Taiwan are holding out for more robust military support from the US with China. We'll have to wait and see how the technology sanctions hurt Russia. The current trade sanctions the US has with China as far as chips goes will have some affect. Now would be a good time to tax the rich to pay for it. Since in the end the money just flows back to them from US anyway you look at it. The Super Rich just get Richer.
 
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Liquidrider said:
Intel already receives billions in government subsidies and tax breaks while AMD & Nvidia receive practically nothing. Absolutely insane congress is giving Intel another handout
Click to expand...
According to an organization that tracks this data. Intel has received only about $6 billion in government subsidies dating back to 1993. To put that number in perspective. Intel spent $15 billion on R&D last year.

https://subsidytracker.goodjobsfirst.org/parent/intel
 
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spongiemaster said:
According to an organization that tracks this data. Intel has received only about $6 billion in government subsidies dating back to 1993. To put that number in perspective. Intel spent $15 billion on R&D last year.

https://subsidytracker.goodjobsfirst.org/parent/intel
Click to expand...
AMD, Dell, Apple and Nvidia have been making significant investments in the Taiwanese and Korean economies through their purchases from TSMC and Samsung, but they are not manufacturers of semiconductor products. Intel and Global Foundries have invested in US production but have found it difficult to make a profit due to Korean and Taiwanese government subsidies. The chips act is intended to at least level the playing field so we have high end semiconductor production in the US.

Government subsidies seem nasty at times, but we will have no significant business in the US if we allow foreign governments to drive our manufacturers out of business.
 
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